Talk:Equine nutrition

Digestive Tract

not sure how to properly edit the sandbox so I thought I would just stick these up here:

1. Stomach: Has a glandular and a nonglandular side. The glandular side produces pepcin. 2. Please include info about the pelvic flexure (not sure about the spelling). This is a common place for impaction colic. Carsinmotion (talk) 07:41, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Most of this was moved over to Equine anatomy. Montanabw^(talk) 06:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Water

I thought I read somewhere that the "only give you horse a few sips of water after work" idea was a myth that was disproved. I'll try to find the source.Eventer 00:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Me too, but I can't source it, and the Extension service articles I used, particularly the Ohio State stuff, mention the slow cool down, so absent a more recent study, best to be cautious. I actually thought they did well to say that a horse can drink its fill WHILE WORKING, but not after...so that alone is a little more modern approach. And I think that some of the water thing may have to do with HUMAN exercise physiology...beats me. If you find something sufficiently scientific to be a reliable source, go for it, maybe in the form of, "it used to be this way, but new studies suggest it can be that way..." Montanabw 16:59, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

If the horse has just exercised he will be breathing so hard that he will have to stop drinking in order to breathe. As long as his breathing has returned to normal drinking water will not adversely effect him. Any equine nutritionist will tell you this. Carsinmotion (talk) 07:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Read the article, it's explained there now. And please note there is no need to comment on an issue solved two years ago... (smile) Montanabw^(talk) 06:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Tying up

Can we source "Failure to do so could lead to Equine Exertional Rhabdomyolysis, or "tying up," a very serious muscular problem." I am running across stuff in some magazines that suggests that tying up is genetically triggered...? Montanabw 17:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, did a bit of research. According to the Illustrated Atlas of Clinical Equine Anatomy and Common Disorders of the Horse (I will source when I have the time. Its a great reference, btw), the "pathogenesis of ER is not clearly understood". Possbile causes include: 1) change of blood supply in muscle 2) electrolyte or fluid imbalance 3) genetic predisposition 4) nutritional influence. For the electrolyte imbalance: diets usually consist of hay and cereal grains, which generally consist of high levels of K+ and low levels of Na+ ions. These ions are especially important to the muscle and nerve tissue, thus incorrect levels are a possible cause of ER. Fillies and mares are apparently more prone to getting ER, especially those that are "highly anxious," suggesting an endocrine influence. Also certain family lines seem to be more prone (genetics). Eventer 02:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

If you can come up with a really short little paragraph with the bibliographical source, go for it! Montanabw 23:34, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Copyright problem--moving to subpage

Noting that I have moved previous text to Talk:Equine nutrition/Temp. Will work on sourcing. This was overkill as I did not copy the article from Rutgers, though it was a major source. Montanabw 19:24, 14 February 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Montanabw (talk • contribs) 17:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

Further note: Article has been footnoted and restored by another admin. Would suggest to overeager admins in the future to please warn and provide 24 hours to fix rather than an immediate lockdown. Montanabw 01:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Sandbox for Digestive system rewrite

Section needs rewrite, combine with horse anatomy, sourcing, etc. Working on it here

From Owners Veterinary Handbook -- do not edit within this section, cut and paste from here

<ref name=”Vet handbook”>Giffen, James M. and Tom Gore. ‘’Horse Owner’s Veterinary Handbook., 2nd ed. New York:Howell Book House, 1989, 1998. ISBN 0876056060</ref>

Horses do not have a gall bladder to store bile.

Oral cavity: lips, cheeks, hard and soft palate, tongue and muscles. four pairs of salivary glands. Prehensile lips, sharp incisors for cutting, molars, or cheek teeth grind plant matter.

Esophagus is 5 feet long, enters the stomach at an acute angle, creating a one-way valve, which is why horses cannot vomit. Powerful spincter mechanism at the gastroesophageal junction, vomiting and reflux uncommon

Stomach can hold 4 gallons, most efficient when filled to 2 gallons. Acid and pepsin. Pepsin breaks down proteins into amino acids

Stomach empties when 2/3 full, whether stomach enzymes have completed their processing of the food or not, can prevent full digestion and proper utilization of feed. this is why several small feedings are preferable to a few large ones.

Pancreas produces digestive enzymes and insulin.

Small intestine is 70 feet long, holds 12 gallons, three parts are the duedenum, jejunum and ileum. Bile from the liver acts here, combined with enzymes from the pancreas and enzymes from the small intestine.

Most food is digested and absorbed into the bloodstream from the small intestine. Liquids and roughage move into the large intestine.

Large intestine is 25 feet long total, and consists of the cecum, large colon, small colon and rectum. Large colon is the most frequent site of impactions.

Cecum is 4 feet long, holds 7 to 10 gallons. Contains bacteria that feeds upon digestive chyme, and breaks down cellulose by means of fermentation. Bacteria in the cecum also produce certain fat-soluble vitamins, absorbed by the horse.

Large colon is 10-12 feet long, holds 20 gallons of semi-liquid matter. Small colon is also 10-12 feet long, but smaller diameter. It absorbs water and forms waste products. The rectum is one foot long and holds waste material until is is passed from the horse’s body.

Most common cause of choke is horses not chewing their food thoroughly, usually because of eating their food too quickly, but also sometimes due to dental problems that make chewing painful. Choke does not cut off respiration.

Colic itself is not a disease, but rather a description of symptoms connected to abdominal pain.

The digestive system-- new

Main article: Horse anatomy

Horses and other Equids evolved as grazing animals, adapted to eating small amounts of the same kind of food all day long. In the wild, the horse adapted to eating prairie grasses in semi-arid regions and traveling significant distances each day in order to obtain adequate nutrition.

The mouth

Digestion begins in the mouth, which is also called the "oral cavity." Horses select pieces of forage and pick up finer foods, such as grain, with their sensitive, prehensile, lips.The front teeth of the horse, called incisors, clip forage, and food is then pushed back in the mouth by the tongue, and ground up for swallowing by the premolars and molars.

The esophagus

The esophagus is about 5 feet in length, and carries food to the stomach. The esophagus enters the stomach at an acute angle, creating a one-way valve, with a powerful spincter mechanism at the gastroesophageal junction, which is why horses cannot vomit. The esophagus is also the area of the digestive tract where horses may suffer from choke. (see also: choke (horse))

The stomach

Horses have a relatively small stomach for their size, and this limits the amount of feed a horse can take in at one time. The average sized horse (800 to 1200 lbs) has a stomach with a capacity of only four gallons, and works best when it contains about two gallons. Because the stomach empties when 2/3 full, whether stomach enzymes have completed their processing of the food or not, which prevents full digestion and proper utilization of feed, continuous foraging or several small feedings per day are preferable to one or two large ones.

In the stomach, assorted acids and the enzyme pepsin break down food. Pepsin allows for the further breakdown of proteins into amino acid chains. Other enzymes include resin and lipase. Additionally, the stomach absorbs some water, as well as ions and lipid soluble compounds. The the end product is food broken down into chyme. It then leaves the stomach through the pyloric valve, which controls the flow of food out of stomach.

The small intestine

The horse’s small intestine is 50 to 70 feet long and holds 10 to 12 gallons. This is the major digestive organ, and where most nutrients are absorbed. It has three parts, the duedenum, jejunum and ileum. Bile from the liver acts here, combined with enzymes from the pancreas and small intestine itself. Horses do not have a gall bladder, so bile flows constantly. Most food is digested and absorbed into the bloodstream from the small intestine. Any remaining liquids and roughage move into the large intestine.

The cecum and large intestine

The cecum is the first section of the large intestine. the cecum is also known as the "water gut" or "hind gut." It is a cul-de-sac pouch, about 4 feet long that holds 7 to 8 gallons. It contains bacteria and protozoa that digest cellulose plant fiber through fermentation, and any soluble carbohydrates. These bacteria feed upon digestive chyme, and also produce certain fat-soluble vitamins which are absorbed by the horse. The reason horses must have their diets changed slowly is so the bacteria in the cecum are able to modify and adapt to the different chemical structure of new feedstuffs. Too abrupt a change in diet can cause colic, as the new food is not properly digested.

The large colon, small colon, and rectum make up the remainder of the large intestine. The large colon is 10-12 feet long and holds up to 20 gallons of semi-liquid matter. It is made up of the right lower (ventral) colon, the left lower (ventral) colon, the left upper (dorsal) colon, the right upper (dorsal) colon, and the transverse colon. Its main purpose it to absorb carbohydrates which were broken down from cellulose in the cecum. Due to its many twists and turns, it is a common place for a type of horse colic called an impaction.

The small colon leads is 10-12 feet in length and holds only 5 gallons of material. It is the area where the majority of water in the horse's diet is absorbed, and is also the place where fecal balls are formed. The rectum is about one foot long, and acts as a holding chamber for fecal matter, which is then expelled from the body via the anus.

The digestive system

Main article: Horse anatomy

Horses and other Equids evolved as grazing animals, adapted to eating small amounts of the same kind of food all day long. In the wild, the horse adapted to eating prairie grasses in semi-arid regions and traveling significant distances each day in order to obtain adequate nutrition.

The mouth

Digestion begins in the mouth, also called the "oral cavity." The front teeth of the horse, called incisors, clip forage, and horses pick up finer foods, such as grain, with their lips. Food is then pushed back in the mouth by the tongue, and ground up for swallowing by the premolars and molars.

When swallowing occurs, the soft palate (a flap of tissue in the back of the mouth) closes over the pharynx of the animal, which prevents food from going down the trachea, but momentarily prevents the horse from being able to breathe. This soft palate is also the reason why horses cannot breathe through their mouth when they are in respiratory distress.

The esophagus

The esophagus is about 4-5 feet in length, and carries food to the stomach. Due to the coronary sphincter, the esophagus only allows the passage of food in one direction, and this is why horses cannot vomit. It is also the area of the digestive tract where horses get choke, or esophageal obstruction, due to eating something that is too large or dry to pass down the length of the esophagus. Therefore, unlike humans, equine choke does not prevent the animal from breathing, but is still a very serious problem that can eventually lead to pneumonia if left untreated.

The stomach

Horses have a relatively small stomach for their size that limits the amount of feed a horse can take in at one time. The average sized horse (800 to 1200 lbs) has a stomach with a capacity of only 2 to 4 gallons, and works best when it is about 2/3 full. Therefore, best management allows horses to have continuous access to forage or at least several small meals, as opposed to one or two large meals a day.

Food arrives into the stomach from the esophagus. The majority of gastric juice is made up of hydrochloric acid, which turns pepsinogen into the enzyme pepsin. Pepsin allows for the partial breakdown of proteins. Other enzymes include resin and lipase. Additionally, the stomach absorbs some water, as well as ions and lipid soluble compounds. The main purpose of the stomach, however, is to break down food into chyme. It then leaves the stomach through the pyloric valve, which controls the flow of food out of stomach.

The small intestine

The horse’s small intestine is 50 to 70 feet long and holds 10 to 23 gallons. This is the major digestive organ, and where most nutrients are absorbed.

Additionally, the pancreas and liver both play a role in the small intestine, by secreting a very alkaline digestive juice about 5-6 inches from the pyloric valve. This counteracts the acidity of the chyme arriving from the stomach and prevents it from eating through the tissue of the intestine.

The cecum and large intestine

Most liquids are passed to the cecum, also known as the "water gut" or "hind gut." It is a cul-de-sac pouch, about 3 to 4 feet long that holds 7 to 8 gallons. It contains bacteria and protozoa that digest plant fiber (through fermentation) and any soluble carbohydrates. Horses must have their diets changed slowly so that the bacteria in the cecum are able to modify and adapt to the different chemical structure of new feedstuffs. Too abrupt a change in diet can cause colic, as the new food is not properly digested.

The large colon, small colon, and rectum make up the large intestine. The large colon is about 12 feet long and holds up to 20 gallons. Its main purpose it to absorb carbohydrates which were broken down from cellulose in the cecum. Due to its many twists and turns, it is a common place for a type of horse colic called an impaction.

The small colon leads is 10-12 feet in length and holds only 5 gallons of material. It is the area where the majority of water in the horse's diet is absorbed, and is also the place where fecal balls are formed.

The rectum is about one foot long, and acts as a holding chamber for fecal matter, which is passed out the anus.

From Horse anatomy-- OLD

The equine digestive system is about 100 feet in length. Fermentation of cellulose occurs in the cecum (hind-gut), unlike the four-chambered stomachs of ruminants. The equine gastro-intestinal tract is prone to complications (such as colic) that can easily become fatal. Consists of:

1. Oral cavity: where the lips, teeth, and tongue work to grind food up for swallowing
2. Esophagus: the tube that carries the food to the stomach
3. Stomach: A holding tank for food, that also begins to absorb nutritional elements, and breaks down food into much smaller material. The horse stomach consists of a non-glandular blind sac (saccus cecus), divided by a distinct border, the margo plicata, from the glandular stomach.
4. Small intestine: Consists of the duodenum, jejunum, and ileum. Site of digestion of proteins, simple carbohydrates, and fats.
5. Cecum: Extremely large in the horse, responsible for fermentation of cellulose (equivalent function to the rumen in cattle). Consists of a base, body, and apex.
6. Large intestine (colon): The large (ascending) colon consists of the right ventral colon, sternal flexure, left ventral colon, pelvic flexure, left dorsal colon, diaphragmatic flexure, right dorsal colon, and joins with the small (descending) colon. Absorbs water and nutrients.
7. Rectum: forms manure balls and is the holding area for feces

Good article passed

Two things should be improved though:

1. The section titled 'how to feed' needs to be renamed to 'amount and composition of feed' or something like that. Wikipedia is not a how-to-guide. I passed it nevertheless because it is only the wording of the headline, the content is worded in an encyclopedic tone.
2. The writing is not brilliant yet. There are many repetitions: 'horses do graze a lot' is mentioned at least four times throughout the article, sometimes it is necessary for content, sometimes it isn't. At least the caption of the first image needs to be changed, because the fact that horses are grazing is mentioned at least three times during the first screenfull of text. Similarly, replace the repeatedly used word 'horses' by equids or some other noun in a third of the cases.

• Other than that: nice work, good article.--DorisH 16:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Silage statement

I question this line "they must never be fed fermentable materials such as silage" .. This was the opinion for a long time, but has changed drastically over the past 10 - 15 years. The mold issue in silage is a lesser issue because it is highly visible, and thus can be discarded and not fed to horses - where as mold in hay can go undiscovered under a longer period of time. I know several serious stables that feed a mix of hay and silage to all their horses. Thoughts? mceder (u t c) 20:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Mold that you can see obviously isn't good, it causes respiratory problems, etc., but it's not usually fatal. You can't see botulism spores and other toxins. Botulism can be in both silage and in the big round bales and is an issue. But, like round bales, people do feed silage. But both have some risks. Fermentation in general is not good for horses, either, they lack the multi-chambered stomach to detoxify it (part of why grass clippings are so bad, they ferment and form toxins long before you see visible mold).

Oh, and if you have a source from a University research on silage and spoilage that supports your views, please present it. In the meantime, the silage issue is referenced to University Extension materials which recommend against it. If this research has been superseded, it will be useful to know. Montanabw 21:22, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I have been looking for some English version of what I have found. It appears most research is from Scandinavia, where ensilage feed to horses is common. Will bring it here if I find something. mceder (u t c) 06:56, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

The "haylage" stuff in the UK -- the bagged fresh grass, or whatever it is -- sort of raises some of the same botulism and mold toxin concerns. Maybe there is a process of some sort that they use that makes it safe, I don't know. Be interesting to find out. 161.7.2.160 19:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

You can't always see mold. Carsinmotion (talk) 07:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Equine nutrition/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

GA Sweeps: Kept

As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing Sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria. I went through the article and made various changes, please look them over. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good Article. Altogether the article is well-written and is still in great shape after its passing in 2007. Continue to improve the article making sure all new information is properly sourced and neutral. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 18:31, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Overall, looks good. The Purina and Nutrena links were there as examples sourcing the statements that accompanied them, but if OK to be unsourced, whatever. Thanks for the sweep and the cleanup. Hopefully no one will kick that we have a few unfootnoted sentences now... LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 01:55, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I removed the links as it could be seen as spam. See if there are other sources (perhaps magazine/newspaper articles) that cover those details. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 01:00, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Eventually...the WPEQ backlog responds primarily to crisis at the moment! LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 23:47, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Review of ‘Special feeding issues for mules and donkeys’.

I’d like to add some further information to the section ‘Special feeding issues for mules and donkeys’. As this section already touches on, donkeys and mules are very efficient at digesting food, much more so than horses and even ponies and need to be fed accordingly. I’d like to add some information, initially about feeding requirements for your average donkey, and then also cover overweight, underweight and geriatric donkeys. I’m new to Wikipedia, so not entirely familiar with the way things are done, but if anyone has any objections to me adding to this section as follows please let me know.

Donkeys in their natural environment have evolved to spend long parts of the day (14-16 hours per day) browsing and foraging for food. In their native arid and semi-arid climates this would often be a poor quality, scrubby fibre. Domesticated donkey owners face the challenge of feeding their donkey enough low energy fibre in order to meet their appetite, but in temperate climates the forage available is often too rich and abundant resulting in weight gain and obesity with further implications including laminitis and hyperlipaemia. Although the donkey’s gastrointestinal tract has no marked differences in structure to that of the horse, it is well documented that ‘donkeys are more efficient at digesting food than horses and, as a consequence, can thrive on less forage than a similar sized pony’. Research carried out at The Donkey Sanctuary in 2005 established that donkeys need to eat approximately 1.5% of their bodyweight per day in dry matter, compare this with 2-2.5 % quoted for horses above. It is not fully understood why donkeys are such efficient digestors but it is thought that compared to horses they may have a different microbial population in the large intestine, another suggestion is increased gut retention time compared to ponies.

Donkeys gain most of their daily energy needs from structural carbohydrates (fibre). An average, healthy donkey will need nothing more than a diet of ad lib feeding straw (preferably barley straw), supplemented with controlled grazing in the summer and hay in the winter. A donkey’s requirement for protein and fat are so low that in practice once the energy requirements are met so too are the protein and fat requirements. Cereal based ‘horse’ feeds are often too high in energy levels and will exceed the daily requirements of the donkey, putting them at risk of obesity, laminitis, hyperlipaemia and gastric ulcers. Even a small amount of grazing or fresh fodder during the spring and summer will provide adequate vitamin levels, so for a normal, healthy donkey a diet of straw plus a little grazing/hay will meet all their nutritional needs; there is no need to over-complicate the diet with unnecessary extra feeds. A low-calorie vitamin and mineral supplement should be given to those on a restricted diet (i.e. for weight loss) year round, and to all donkeys during the winter months.

{{reflist|refs= <ref>Smith, David and Wood, Stephanie. Donkey Nutrition. The Professional Handbook of the Donkey Duncan, James and Hadrill, David (2008) Whittet Books. Volume 4: p10. </ref> <ref>Wood, Stephanie, Smith, David and Morris, Catherine. ‘Seasonal variation of digestible energy requirements of mature donkeys in the UK’. “Proceedings Equine Nutrition Conference.” Hanover, Germany. 1-2 October 2005:p39-40. </ref> <ref> Smith DG, Pearson RA. A review of the factors affecting the survival of donkeys in semi-arid regions of sub-Saharan Africa. (Special issue: Nutrition and health of donkeys in the tropics) Tropical Animal Health and Production. 2005. 37: Supplement 1, 1-19. </ref> <ref> Burden FA, Gallagher J, Thiemann A, Trawford AF. Necropsy survey of gastric ulcers in a population of aged donkeys: prevalence, lesion description and risk factors. 2009 Animal 3 (2) 287–293. </ref>}} Liz Hazell-Smith 13:27, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Very interesting! It's a bit too long and detailed here per WP:UNDUE, though a summary of material that's not already in the article -- with sources-- would be a nice addition. Actually, this in its entirety may also be really good to add to the Donkey article. How about looking at the section that's there, working in the most relevant bits above where they aren't redundant to what we have, with footnotes in the right place, and I can do a little copyediting and cleanup when you're done. Montanabw^(talk) 21:48, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok thanks for the help, I'll post it on the Donkey talk page and see if I can get it added there (its locked down for editing). Once I've got it all added there I'll do a summary for this page, and would most appreciate your help with tidying it up etc.

81.17.71.114 (talk) 13:34, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I encourage you to get a user name, and then you can edit the locked articles. (May need a few days and a certain # of edits, if you are still locked out when ready to go, give me a shout on the talk page and I'll help you.) Montanabw^(talk) 19:17, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

References

What is good quality hay?

I have some problems with photo caption for the hay image in the Forages section: "Good quality grass hay is green and has visible leaves and young seed heads." First, it seems like the caption equates good quality hay with high nutrition value hay (young seed heads. Second, if the hay is green or more yellowish says more about if it has been dried out at field or in a barn, doesn't it? So while it may indicate something about the vitamin content of the hay, the green colour in it self does not say anything of the hygenic quality or nutritional value.

I propose that the caption is changed to a more descriptive one, like just "Grass hay". /Pastisch (talk) 11:49, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

I disagree; green hay is thoroughly dried in a field (otherwise it would rot). Hay cut too late or left to dry until it is bleached out and yellowed will have less nutritional content than fresh green hay cut from less mature grasses. Montanabw^(talk) 22:54, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Maybe there is this connection between colour and quality (in some sense of the word) in some climates (in a hot and dry climate where hay dries quickly in the field, perhaps), but not generally. In the Swedish climate, for example, hay is either dried thoroughly in the field, or fist dried partly in the field, and then fully inside a barn with the help of a fan. The method of drying affects the colour of the hay, and to some extent also the vitamin content of the hay. But there is no clear effect on other nutrients. Pastisch (talk) 23:59, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, vitamins are rather important nutrients, wouldn't you say? I would also point out that climate is an issue, and it would definitely be a challenge to put up good, dry, un-moldy hay in Sweden! I would say that "generally" it is more common, even today, for hay to dry in the field worldwide. Maybe it is so humid in Sweden that hay bleaches when it dries because it has to stay out so very long? I live in a dry climate, our field-dried hay can stay beautifully green so long as it is properly harvested and doesn't get rained on. See Hay for more details. This image I have added was taken in a field in Montana, where we have enough sun to naturally dry hay. If it rains on the hay and so it has to be turned multiple times to dry, that does bleach it out some and reduces its value. If someone were to try and sell me bleached-out hay, I would know that it was probably stored outside, uncovered, and probably rained on, thus likely to be of poor quality and possibly moldy on the inside. In a climate like Australia's outback, where they get little rain, a bleached-out bale on the outside might still be pretty good on the inside. If the interior of the bale was bleached too, then I'd know it was either harvested too late or was left in the field too long before baling and thus also of low quality. Montanabw^(talk) 22:40, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

The sun drying of hay changes vitamin content, one can expect the content of vitamin D to increase, but the content of vitamin A can be expected to decline. Also, whether a late harvest is good or bad depends upon what animal you are going to feed, an easy keeper or a youngster, for example. So I still maintain that green colour is not a general indicatior of good quality. Since this is a photo caption, qualifying that statement with a discussion of different climates and drying technices is probably not a good idea. Maybe there would be a place for that in hay. Pastisch (talk) 23:10, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

OK, will sourcing convince you? Word search "green" here: http://extension.umd.edu/publications/pdfs/fs644.pdf: "The most desirable hay color is the bright green of the immature crop in the field. This color usually indicates that the hay was rapidly and properly cured, with no damage from rain, molds, or overheating during storage" In short, yes, green color alone is not completely dispositive, but it is a major factor. I can find a dozen more sites like this, but this is a university extension office, so clearly a WP:RS for this issue. Montanabw^(talk) 00:16, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the link. It seems to say that green colour is an indicator (although not perfect) of the hay being of good hygienic quality as well as of it being cut in a fairly early maturation stage. Its recommendations seem to be directed at livestook producers and dairy farmers (in Maryland) though, so not all of them are directly applicable to equine nutrition.

My source of the of green colour not being an important indicator of other quality parameters than vitamin A content (in Swedish hay at least) is the standard textbook on equine nutrition in Swedish and the Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, but I don't have any English-language sources at present, so I will have to get back to you on that.

So there seems to be differences in recommendations from different parts of the world, which is not suprising considering differences in climate and hay curing techniques. In Sweden for example, hay have to dry something like 5-7 days outside before it can be pressed into bales.

Last, as I raised this in my first post but partly forgot after that, I think it would be better in the caption to say what is meant by good quality, i.e. high protein, energy and micronutrient levels, rather than using just the words good quality, because one cannot expect readers of this article to know that this is what is often meant by that phrase, and that it not means hay that would be best suited for any given horse. /Pastisch (talk) 10:57, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

I can find you extension sources from all 50 states if you want, but I'd prefer not to. I googled "good quality hay is green" (in quotes) and got over 36,000 hits. I cannot imagine trying to put up hay in Sweden, it rains a lot and is so cloudy so much of the time! I can well imagine that hay left to dry outdoors would be bleached out by the time it dries, between multiple wettings/turnings and so on. (Ditto for the UK) When we did our own hay, the years we'd get it rained on, it was often not as green by the time we got it dried and in. But for the caption, captions are short: and, most sources say something akin to "good quality hay is green" and if you read the article text, that is where the details go, the captions have to be short and sweet. 23:15, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the conditions is different in humid temperate climates like UK and Sweden, but hay still gets made, even though we have a more difficult time doing it. Therefore it is not surprising that hay curing methods vary, and with them the clues you should be looking for in hay. It is not that all hay dried outside gets rained on though. The summers can be quite warm and dry with 25-30 degrees Celcius for a couple of weeks if one's lucky.

I have ordered some books from the library and might get in touch with the authors of the Swedish textbook or the Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences directly to ask for their sources, and also plan to look on the web a bit more, but it will take some time. So don't go through the hassle of looking up all the extension sources yet.

But as you point out, a caption should be short, and therefore it may be better to move further discussion of this to the Hay page, since the same things that are under discussion here is relevant there, and follow whatever is agreed on there in the caption here. /Pastisch (talk) 09:24, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm good with moving the discussion, and potential edits, to the hay page. However, I think the caption here is fine, no need for a paragraph-long caption, and if we really think this article's text (have you even read the text here?) is in need of a rephrase later, we can discuss that too. Montanabw^(talk) 01:36, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

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External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 9 external links on Equine nutrition. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070408100639/http://esc.rutgers.edu/publications/factsheets_nutrition/FS038.htm to http://www.esc.rutgers.edu/publications/factsheets_nutrition/FS038.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070405022248/http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/AS/AS-429.html to http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/AS/AS-429.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070203222434/http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/resources/livestock/horses/ag558-7.html to http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/resources/livestock/horses/ag558-7.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111103041633/http://instruction.cvhs.okstate.edu/histology/HistologyReference/HRD2frame.htm to http://instruction.cvhs.okstate.edu/Histology/HistologyReference/HRD2frame.htm
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/crops_livestock/livestock/horses/Nutrition/Nutrition+Feed.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070407081251/http://esc.rutgers.edu/publications/general/fs525.htm to http://www.esc.rutgers.edu/publications/general/fs525.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070203031810/http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/AS/AS_555_W.pdf to http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/AS/AS_555_W.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070405041900/http://www.cherokeeanimalclinic.com/feedingfoals.htm to http://www.cherokeeanimalclinic.com/feedingfoals.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070927062826/http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/79/2/500.pdf to http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/79/2/500.pdf
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Article updates, maintenance

A bit on pasture forage grazing rates here: http://www.thehorse.com/articles/39911/pasture-management-101-high-traffic-areas-and-overgrowth?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=farm-barn&utm_campaign=12-10-2017

Montanabw(talk) 20:14, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Dg

Rg 69.73.35.2 (talk) 19:01, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

I am going to \ 69.73.35.2 (talk) 19:01, 2 March 2023 (UTC)