Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2015/Archive 3

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France

http://escxtra.com/2014/08/eurovision-moves-to-france-2/ France will be in vienna with France 2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.35.141.28 (talk) 11:33, 27 August 2014 (UTC) http://esctoday.com/86408/france-eurovision-move-france-3-france-2/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.35.141.28 (talk) 11:40, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Spain, Radiotelevisión Española and "The Hit"

The Spanish Wikipedia has recently altered the number of 2015 Eurovision from 26 (after the latest addition of France) to 27, adding Spain, and citing as a source an article regarding RTVE's new talent show "The Hit." The person who made this change has apparently decided to assume that this new show will become the new national selection method of choosing the Spanish entry, which may very well be true; however, the article itself does not even mention the Eurovision Song Contest in 2015 or at any other time, so I wonder if more is needed prior to confirming Spain's participation? Honestly, there's little doubt in my mind that Spain will in fact participate, but I wonder if these news are sufficient to confirm it officially? T.W. (talk) 16:57, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

I think it is quite obvious that Spain will participate next year, but I'm not sure about those rumours of 'The Hit'. Indeed, I'm quite curious about them, because I'm Spanish and I first learnt about the Spanish version of The Hit in a foreign website, so I'm not that sure that 'The Hit' is going to be our national process or not. Not at least to make of these rumours an official confirmation. But, in any case, the Spanish broadcaster is updating its official social network Eurovision accounts with the 2015 image (the new logo, etc.). They've been answering to different users who asked them whether our participation was confirmed or not but it seemed that they didn't know what the fans were talking about; from the answers I assume that the @eurovision_tve CM was referring to the way of selecting the entry and not to the entry itself. In short, all the stuff has been updated for next year, but they haven't make an official statement yet, so I guess that we're in the same case as Bulgaria, whose broacaster has arranged everything on the web for 2015 but hasn't made any official confirmation though. I hope to have brought some light into the Spanish 2015 eurodrama... --Luis Fuster (talk) 18:27, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm Spanish, too, albeit currently living in the United States, so I've been keeping a special look-out for the Spanish confirmation and I have yet to come across anything that is convincing. France seems to have accepted this article as confirmation enough, although the article simply questions the possibility of RTVE using "The Hit" in order to select the Spanish representative (ala Operación triunfo) but does not answer any questions definitively, it simply raises them. T.W. (talk) 21:50, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

TVE has spoken on the issue. Eurovision-spain.com got a quote from them where they confirm they are producing "The Hit" but say nothing has been decided on Eurovision. Source: http://www.eurovision-spain.com/iphp/noticia.php?numero=9518&idioma= . So it is officially unrelated to ESC, at least for now. Spanish Wikipedia has reverted the edition. Xelaxa (talk) 15:44, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Several websites, such as FormulaTV, Vertele and the fan made EurovisionTimes.com say that José Ramón Díez, the new RTVE director confirmed that The Hit is being discussed as the Spanish selection method for 2015. I'm not sure whether this could serve as an official confirmation for participation or not. --Luis Fuster (talk) 15:46, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

The current "sourced" indicating Spain's participation seems to be a fan-created list that did not even include Spain until a commenting user mentioned it, only to be responded with "Thanks, I've added it now." Seems far from reliable, honestly. However, on the other hand, the consideration of "The Hit" as the new means for selecting a Eurovision entry seems, in part, to confirm the countries early intention to participate in the contest.T.W. (talk) 16:59, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Spain

Why is there no mention of Spain in this article? It should be at least listed under the "Participation or withdrawal to be confirmed" section. --94.3.40.107 (talk) 17:37, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Probably because there are no sources to help us verify any additions to the article regarding Spain. We cannot write something without being able to back it up with reliable and verifiable sources. Wes Mouse 09:28, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Ah okay thanks for your reply. --94.3.40.107 (talk) 19:56, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2014

You unlock 78.71.211.21 (talk) 20:12, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. Cannolis (talk) 20:45, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Albania

Albania confirms participation to the Esc 2015

Source here => http://escbubble.com/2014/09/rtsh-calls-songs-festivali-kenges/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikays (talk • contribs) 11:30, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but I don't believe that this can be considered like a source for confirmation, RTSH didn't speak so far about its participation or not; I suggest to remove Albania from the article at present. --Gce (talk) 17:21, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

That's a good point, Gce. The source only states that RTSH have called for song for their FiK show. It doesn't state whether FiK will be the selection method for Albanian entry, or even if Albania are entering. I'm with you on the removal of Albania from the article for now, until more solid sources can be provided to help determine Albania's participation at Eurovision. Wes Mouse 19:28, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

I doubt Albania will withdraw or anything, but I agree that this article isn't really a confirmation. FiK has been held since decades before Albania debuted in the contest and I assume if Albania does withdraw someday, FiK will still be held. It's really just a national competition that happens to be used for ESC. I agree with removing them until more sources come up. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 19:38, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

On second thought, we could move Albania to the "other countries" section under the sub-section "participation or withdrawal to be confirmed". There is nothing wrong in noting that FiK is scheduled but as of yet no confirmation on ESC participation is known. Wes Mouse 19:43, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

I would support that move. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 20:11, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

For me it's the same thing, the most important thing is that Albania isn't in the list of participant countries. --Gce (talk) 22:31, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

 Done by myself. --Gce (talk) 14:08, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Albania confirmed this time aha!

http://eurovoix.com/2014/09/12/albania-festivali-i-kenges-submissions-are-open/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikays (talk • contribs) 15:22, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

No, it's the same kind of news. --Gce (talk) 23:13, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Remove Albania

ALBANIA has not confirmed its participation in Vienna, they only said that they will "most likely" be there. This is not a confirmed country so please remove it now!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ci16997 (talk • contribs) 21:39, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

@Ci16997: firstly I've merged your post into this still active post about Albania. Secondly, the answer to your request is going to be a no, unfortunately. Although this ESCToday headline reads "Albania: RTSH will most likely participate in Eurovision 2015", if you take more notice to the third paragraph of the report, it reads The 2015 Albanian Eurovision entry and representative will be revealed on 28 December." - that is good enough confirmation, especially when ESCToday state in their report that they spoke to RTSH personally. The quote is also used in the citation, so fact is fact, and the evidence is there in writing to verify facts.   Wes Mouse | chat  21:54, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Morocco

Resolved

Is there any non-Eurovision related source or article that can back up 2M TV's application for membership to the EBU? The earliest article I can find regarding 2M TV being interested in the contest is back in 2007. [1] Since then many ESC fansites seem to recycle claims that 2M TV have applied to the EBU and could possibly compete in the contest. But a seven year period seems to be a very long time to still not have membership or any evidence (other than this claim from Eurovision sites) that indicate the membership is being sought out. Pickette (talk) 03:06, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

I moved this back here from the archive because I plan to remove Morocco from the article if there is no source that can actually back-up a currently pending application from this broadcaster. The claim that they have applied has been running on these Eurovision sites for years. By now I would think either they were accepted or rejected - there are two sessions per year that the EBU can admit new members. But I can't find anything from the EBU or from 2M TV that states that this is an ongoing process. Pickette (talk) 19:29, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

I think it is a bit obvious really. The ESCToday source from July 2007 stated that 2MTV were "looking to join". Whereas the source dated June 2014 states that 2MTV had now applied. So it would be fair to say the inclusion of such detail within the article is sufficient enough, until new sources arise that state differently. Has anyone thought to do a Google search to check for further updates on 2MTV's EBU application? Wes Mouse 07:30, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

There is also this source from September 2013 which also states that 2MTV have applied. So I assume there are some issues between the EBU and 2MTV that is causing delays in the membership approval process!? Wes Mouse 07:35, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

There is also this from 2011, yet again only from Eurovision-related sites, that claims 2M TV has applied for membership. I couldn't find any articles from the EBU or from any Moroccan news sites that can back up any of these claims. I would think there would be some other source available to verify the outcome of their application or whether they are continuously applying and being rejected. To me it just seems like these Eurovision sites have made it common practice to continually refer to 2M TV as an applicant for EBU membership whenever the topic of Morocco is brought up. In regards to the Wiki article, I think it's better to say nothing on the matter than to communicate potentially inaccurate information. Pickette (talk) 14:06, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I too had noticed that 2011 source from Eurovision Times. There must be some reason as to why we cannot find anything else to check on the status of 2MTV's "alleged" EBU membership application. Although trying to find such updates on the good ol' WWW is like hunting for a needle in a haystack. Wonder why there is never anything published to show a tracker on EBU membership applications? What reason could there be that the general public cannot follow an application process? You'd think the EBU or the respective broadcasters themselves would keep public records on their websites. Wes Mouse 09:34, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

That's why I'm skeptical about having this on the article. I would think if 2M TV indeed applied for membership, there would be some other source other than Eurovision sites that could back it up. And their apparent application wasn't even universally reported upon by most Eurovision sites which also sets off a red flag. I think the best solution is to remove this from the article and wait for a more substantial news item or report that can back it up. Pickette (talk) 15:14, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

In that case then, I think I am inclined to agree with you on this matter. Like I noted, finding further updates is proving to be difficult. So perhaps removing the content from this article, and moving it to Morocco in the Eurovision Song Contest is the best way forward. Especially seeing as there is a more recent dated source. It would help expand that article in the least. Wes Mouse 15:30, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

I've gone ahead a removed it from the article. There was already a mention of 2M TV on the Morocco in the Eurovision Song Contest article. Pickette (talk) 16:04, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Nice job! I'm still searching though as to why there is never any published updates on applications. Curiosity is getting the better of me. Wes Mouse 16:24, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

2M TV is not an active EBU member. SNRT is though, thus Morocco should be listed under active members who still hasn't responded (http://www3.ebu.ch/members?search-category=f6148a17-e123-4fa5-b3f7-7f52190e0879) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peterjacobhansen (talk • contribs) 23:14, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Unless there is an article or an update about the Moroccan participation in regards to 2015, Morocco wont be listed in the Other countries section. I've just removed Croatia from there after looking over how that section has dealt with countries in the past articles. Pickette (talk) 01:23, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Moroccos plans to return

For a few days ago the articke says under "Require active EBU membership" that Morocco have plans to debut 2015, but now this text is gone. Well, I can't find any sources about their debut plans, is this the reason the text were deleted? If not, why did "someone" delete the text? #spaceon2 (talk) 19:10, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Please read #Morocco. A mutual decision was reached agreeing to remove Morocco from the list you are referring to. Wes Mouse 19:50, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Ah, ok. Thank you. I will read it. And sorry for my spell at the title... #spaceon2 (talk) 08:46, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

I know this is nitpicking and not important, but Morocco cannot plan to debut when they already debuted in 1980.T.W. (talk) 20:05, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

LOL. That is a good point though. Wes Mouse 12:52, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I will change. When you say it it sounds funny! Hahaha! #spaceon2 (talk) 08:06, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Morocco source

Isn't the source for Morocco, the escToday article, only stating their opinion on Moroccan participation? They said: We don’t expect Morocco to return to the competition next year. Isn't this an opinion? I don't expect Morocco to return but it's still not a viable source for confirmation anyway. --Xinxaa (talk) 19:15, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Please refer to #Morocco above for a more detailed explanation. Wes Mouse 19:23, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Ah, I see what you mean now. User Jeanis12345 re-added Morocco to the article, despite being told not to do so by another editor. I've removed the content yet again. Wes Mouse 19:26, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Any informations about Morroco's decision ?

'cause Morroco doesn't announce its withdraw or its return yet. Wikays (talk) 16:50, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

@Wikays:, firstly I've moved your thread into this section, as there is a lot been discussed about Morocco. Secondly, in reply to the question, the best thing would be to check the internet. Remember we're not a news website, nor are we journalists that have contact with the national broadcasters. We just collaborate and update encyclopaedic material based on what the news websites etc report.   Wes Mouse | chat  16:55, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Why is Serbia listed as active

on the list of eurovision countries, serbia is listed as active. is it confirmed that they are returning or is that vandalism.84.208.53.253 (talk) 21:50, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

There is nothing showing on this article or on the participation map as them being active. Where have you seen this? Wes Mouse 07:39, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Croatia?

What about Croatia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.28.100.76 (talk) 10:09, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Would you like to elaborate further on your question? If you are asking if we know any news on Croatia participating, then you've come to the wrong place. Wikipedia is only an encyclopaedia, not a news broadcasting service. Wes Mouse 11:45, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

But shouldn't Croatia be listed as "Participation to be confirmed"? That goes for Morocco as well... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.104.148.247 (talk) 15:55, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Rules for Eurovision 2015 published

Interestingly, SVT have published the rules, yet they cannot be found on either the EBU or eurovision.tv websites. But at least we have some additional information to add to the article. Wes Mouse 15:49, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

They are indeed on the Eurovision.tv website: http://www.eurovision.tv/upload/press-downloads/2015/2014-09-02_2015_ESC_rules_EN_PUBLIC_RULES.pdf Chewy5000 (talk) 10:07, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Well pardon me for not being able to find them as easily. They were not there at the time I was checking. But you may wish to check them both again. SVT's is 34 pages; the one you found is only 6 pages. Wes Mouse 12:10, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

About some countries

The deadline to confirm participation is tomorrow and according to what we have on Wikipedia, about ten countries (or more, I didn't really count) are yet to confirm whether they participate or not. I find really weird the fact that countries such as Poland, Spain, Ukraine or Moldova didn't inform about a participation. Is it possible for a country to confirm participation without telling to press or websites ? Yoyo360 (talk) 08:54, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes it is possible. Plus countries who have confirmed still have a period of time to withdraw without facing a penalty fee. As if the case every year, the confirmation list will not be officially known until December 2014 - January 2015 (as stated in the rules). Wes Mouse 09:43, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

So that means that even if the deadline is tomorrow, it is highly possible that we won't know the complete list before January. Am I right ? Yoyo360 (talk) 10:01, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Indeed you are right. It is the same procedure every year. We are only writing information onto an encyclopaedia (a bit like a dictionary, but full of topics, not word definitions). The Eurovision-related websites are the ones who publish news that we in turn use as sources to help verify content we add to these articles. All EBU members have until tomorrow to submit an application to participate in Vienna. However, the EBU give all of those countries an additional period of time to "change their mind" and opt out again without incurring a fine. After that, the EBU then collate their information, produce a participants list, and publish it so the general public can see who will be in Vienna next May. Wes Mouse 10:36, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Israel

I saw this article by a reputable source (Wiwibloggs) and added Israel to the article as confirmed. However, that was deleted with no explanation. I agree that it might not necessarily confirm Israel but this does deserve a mention in the other countries since Israel's section there makes it seem that they're most likely withdrawing. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 22:11, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

There is clearly and most obviously a few factors within the source alone that explain why it has been removed. Firstly, it is already known that IBA is on the brink of closure, thus putting Israel's participation in jeopardy. Secondly, the EBU rules state the participating broadcaster must televise their selection process (unless of course they opt for an internal selection). Thirdly (and most importantly) it is also known that were Israel to be in attendance in Vienna, that their broadcaster must be a television station primarily; which was the main reason as to why Liechtenstein were excluded back in 1976, because they had no television channel. And last but no means least, the source from Wiwibloggs also states in their third paragraph that "Israel has not yet officially confirmed its participation in Eurovision 2015" - so we cannot use the source as confirming participation, because the source itself even states it is not official confirmation. I hope that clears up the confusion. Wes Mouse 22:30, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Oh I knew it shouldn't be included as a confirmed country, that was a dumb decision on my part. And also, I'm not sure if you misread the source or not because it states that it will be an internal selection, not a nontelevised national selection. According to the article, Radio 88FM will internally select the artist but IBA will deal with everything else, the radio station isn't going to broadcast it or anything like that. I was saying how I think that this should be included in the other countries section. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 22:36, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

But that's the main issue. Radio 88FM may select internally, but we already know that the Israeli government have stated they are likely to close down IBA - and if that does happen then the internal selection would have been for nothing. Unless there are other sources to 100% verify that the Israeli government have taken a u-turn on closing the television station down, then it would just make any written inclusion about this "proposed internal selection" to be borderline hearsay. We'd need to think carefully as to how we would word anything if we decided to include the fact that this radio station "is likely" to head towards an internal selection, without full certainty whether IBA is closing or not. Wes Mouse 00:32, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

I agree with you, I think I was just trying to think too optimistically. And considering that the author of the article is Israeli, I feel it may be a bit biased towards an Israeli participation. I guess we'll just wait to see if any other news pops up about this. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 00:46, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Slovenia

Slovenia has confirmed it's participation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vyagrah (talk) 13:55, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

rtvslo has confirmed on their Facebook page that they have submitted an application for esc 2015. I can't add them on the list, so could somebody else do it?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.246.10.211 (talk) 13:56, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Greece

A article posted on a greek website is saying that NERIT (Greece) cannot participate in eurovision 2015 because they are not a member of the EBU. The EBU has their application under review in December where they will discuss whether they will be able to participate. Greece should be removed as a confirmed country for now. http://news.in.gr/culture/article/?aid=1231348136 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.158.17.218 (talk) 17:47, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

It's a joke or not ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikays (talk • contribs) 18:48, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

It's a joke for sure. NERIT joined the EBU earlier this year... we know that for a fact because they participated in Copenhagen and they show on the EBU active members list. Wes Mouse 08:17, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

No it's not a joke, They never joined the EBU as a full member, they only given it provisionally so they could compete in eurovision 2014, and you will actually find it's no longer on the list of members. Here is an article saying they cannot compete from NERIT themselves. Reply to press for participation in Neritan Eurovision 2015 Song Contest and also you will notice is no longer a member on the EBU website... http://www3.ebu.ch/members — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.158.17.218 (talk) 09:38, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Well this source dismisses your rationale. The EBU stated that "To participate in the 2015 Eurovision Song Contest, a broadcaster has to be a Member of the EBU. NERIT’s participation in 2014 was granted based on the pending application for membership and the exceptional situation in Greece.". Furthermore, the EBU sent an official invitation to NERIT for ESC2015 participation, to which NERIT accepted. NERIT's EBU membership will be approved at the next EBU General Assembly in December this year - and thus Greece will be in Vienna next May. End of story! Wes Mouse 12:36, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

I disagree. The official NERIT and EBU websites are definitely more reliable than fansites. And the information posted by NERIT on their own website is clear: As of now, NERIT is not an active member of the EBU, meaning that Greece will not be eligible to take part in ESC 2015, unless they are granted full membership in December. According to Johnny Kalimeris, NERIT is unlikely to be accepted as a member of EBU in time for ESC 2015.MsigDK (talk) 09:43, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

And that is exactly what the EBU said in a publicised statement. It was the EBU who invited NERIT (Greece) to Eurovision 2015. It is the EBU who have said they will grant NERIT full EBU membership at the next general assembly in Geneva in December 2014. So Greece showing on the participants list is perfectly acceptable based on those facts. Wes Mouse 10:50, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Greece won't participate this year

Can someone correct the map of the participating countries? This year, Greece is out due to the fact that it shut down its national TV station and replaced it with a new one that missed the deadline to become part of the EBU. Proof of this can be found in this and many other articles: http://www.pathfinder.gr/news/3877911/%CE%B5%CE%BA%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82-eurovision-%CE%B7-%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B1%CE%B4%CE%B1/ Unfortunately, the article is in Greek but it can be translated in English through an online translator.

Thanks in advance! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.49.123.234 (talk) 20:45, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Please see #Greece. Wes Mouse 11:38, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

It's not true... --' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.189.246.203 (talk) 18:31, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Recent updates regarding Moldova and Croatia

I've removed recent edits on the article regarding a confirmation of Moldova's participation and an update on Croatian participation. The website cited seems like a questionable source in my opinion. I may be mistaken so here are the links for others to see: [2] [3] Pickette (talk) 01:05, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 September 2014

Hello, i'd like to edit this page, because i often have new informations for the eurovision song contest 2015. Like when the Austrian Qualifying is. I often edit the german page. With best regards womanizer14 Womanizer14 (talk) 15:53, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 16:25, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Participation to be confirmed

Under this section, there are two countries, San Marino and Poland. However, it says 'Three' countries to be confirmed. Either this needs to be changed to 'Two' or the other country needs adding to the list. Thank you. --86.181.76.56 (talk) 12:31, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Greece, Israel, Bosnia, Slovenia NOT confirmed

greece israel, bosniaherzegovina, slovenia and bulgaria are not confirmed and they should be removed from the participants' list. They have submitted a PRELIMINARY application for participation, but has not decided yet on whether they want to participate or not. Greece and israel is actually likely to withdraw. so please remove them , cause what the article says right now is false! By Ci16997 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ci16997 (talk • contribs) 14:44, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

These are on the list for now, as there are sources to verify them. As is the case every year, these annual articles are subject to change upon publication of the finalised participation list. Wes Mouse 11:40, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

What's being "confirmed" here is intent to participate, rather than actual participation. Naturally, actual confirmation is not certain until the night of the festival as anything could happen beforehand to prevent a country from participating; actual submission of an application implies an intent to participate, which reads as the opposite of a clearly put intention not to participate, as is the case for Croatia or Czech Republic.T.W. (talk) 22:28, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Greenland

Correct map of all countries which have a membership at EBU (dark blue) and countries which have associated membership at EBU (blue)

Greenland is still a part of Denmark's sovereignty even though it's autonomous, shouldn't it also be coloured in on the map? --Leftcry (talk) 05:10, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

This has been mentioned a few times over the years, and I vaguely remember the answer being no. Can't remember off-hand the reason being, but possibly to do with fact it is seen as a nation in their own right - more details can be found on the article, Greenland. Wes Mouse 05:21, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

@Leftcry: Greenland doesn't have a membership at European Broadcasting Union. For example, Liechtenstein doesn't have a membership too, it only associated. See the map and sorry for my English. ← Alex Great ^talk_rus? 08:41, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

At this situation all of this have a one paradox: Vatican have a right to participate in a Eurovision (JESC, EYM, EYD), but Holy See doesn't interesting in it. ← Alex Great ^talk_rus? 08:47, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Liechtenstein doesn't have any membership whatsoever, not even associated. But I have checked through all the article archives, and the fact that Greenland are not highlighted, is because they do not have EBU membership. Saying that, if we were to start colouring sovereignty dependencies, then we'd need the entire global map. For example French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Mayotte, and Réunion would then need to be coloured as part of France, as they French overseas departments. Netherlands Antilles which is an autonomous country within the Kingdom of the Netherlands. So a line has to be drawn somewhere, otherwise we'd just be over-zealous. Wes Mouse 23:18, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Partially recognized states

If Kosovo, a state which is not fully recognized, is shown on the map, why aren't all the others? (Northern Cyprus, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria and Nagorno-Karabakh) --Leftcry (talk) 03:16, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

That is because Kosovo took part in the Eurovision Young Dancers 2011 and we need to highlight them on the participation map in their own right. The others have not taken part in any of the Eurovision Family of Events (such as Eurovision, Junior Eurovision, Young Musicians, Young Dancers), and thus are not shown on the map for now. If in the event any of the other partially recognised states were to participate in a Eurovision Event, then the map would be updated accordingly. Wes Mouse 13:20, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Hari mata hari

the thing about Hari mata hari competing in vienna for bosnia & herzegovina is ONLY RUMOURS and it has to be deleted! In fact, BHRT has not made their final decision on returning to Eurovision yet, they will announce the final decision on friday the 31st October . their economy is no good By Ci6997 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ci16997 (talk • contribs) 17:16, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Ci16997 about this. According to ESCToday (here http://esctoday.com/88817/bosnia-herzegovina-hari-mata-hari-vienna/) BHRT says that a public announcement will be released next week about how BHRT will choose artist and song to Vienna. So, now I think Hari Mata Hari should be removed as confirmed artist until that public announcement from BHRT will be released. /Hollac16 (talk) 23:42, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

A press release from BHRT today didn't confirm the news. Their release says they will announce details about their participation on 31 October 2014. Whether that is an internal selection of Hari Mata Hari remains to be seen. [4] Pickette (talk) 00:15, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Bosnia and herzegovina has confirmed DEFINITELY ?

To know if it's right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikays (talk • contribs) 19:25, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Care to elaborate more on your question? Bosnia have confirmed participation, yes. If you are referring to the internally selected artist, then please see the comments in the thread directly above this one. We are only an encyclopaedia, not a news reporting website. All content found across Wikipedia is based on published sources, and such content (especially with Eurovision content) is subject to change at any given time, based upon publication updated citations.   Wes Mouse | chat  00:04, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

What about the eurovision.tv article?

This article http://www.eurovision.tv/page/news?id=how_many_countries_will_join_for_eurovision_2015 released last Thursday mentions 38 confirmed countries, one about to decide and Greece is not counted in the list... So isn't there a problem on this Wikipedia page?

I mean... It is sure that Bosnia and Herzegovina is the one which is about to decide as they will announce their final decision next Friday (see here : http://www.bhrt.ba/saopstenja-za-javnost/ucesce-bhrt-na-60-takmicenju-za-pjesmu-eurovizije-2015/). But without Greece, there's one more confirmed country, even if we don't know which one. Shouldn't this be at least mentioned in our article? I've already changed all of that on the French page.

Cordially, Yoyo360 (talk) 01:06, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Other websites mention the same, including Bosnia the number is 38. Greece would make it 39, and there are sources (see #Greece) that gave evidence to the fact the EBU invited Greece to participate in 2015, pending on their active membership, which again the EBU also stated would be granted in December 2014, just in time. So with that in mind, Greece is beyond certainty that they (NERIT) will be granted active membership at the EBU general assembly in December. This article (as would be the case with other language Wikis) is not a definitive article anyway, the article's list at present is only showing "confirmed" as in those listed have shown intent to participate, pending the final participation list published by the EBU in January 2015. Current status quo would be to leave things as they are, although if consensus from the entire Project members was to sway in favour of something else, then that is acceptable. But I wouldn't be bold and just make the changes without consensus, as it could open up edit warring between those who are not aware or don't pay attention to talk page discussions.   Wes Mouse | chat  01:52, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Correction, according to this report, the 38 countries include both Bosnia and Greece; it is Albania that could be the 39th country. And after the news about Luxembourg, if they decide to return in 2015 rather than waiting until 2016, then they'd be the 40th.   Wes Mouse | chat  02:05, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps a note should be included to indicate that NERIT has sent a preliminary application, but Greece's participation is conditioned upon the broadcaster becoming an EBU member prior to the allocation draw in January 2015. Pickette (talk) 03:27, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

@Pickette: That Sounds Good to Me (pardon the pun, but I couldn't resist that one).   Wes Mouse | chat  03:52, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Include a note about Greece is a good idea yes. As their participation depends on their EBU membership, and that they're not yet EBU members... And this reason is why I think Greece is not included in the 38. They write 38 confirmed countries. Greece is not as they only intent to participate.

I think the country "yet to decide" is Bosnia. Why? Just because the report you gace, Wesley Mouse, indicates that they have budget problems to solve, and I gave another report which says they will decide on Friday.

That means that Albania confirmed... Besides, it is quite sure that RTSH confirmed.

And with all of that, we still have an unknown confirmed country which could be Luxembourg or any other.

Yoyo360 (talk) 10:13, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

I think you may be reading too much into the source, which is causing confusion. Allow me to breakdown the context from each source into more simplified detail, which may clear the confusion. The Eurovision.tv source reads "broadcasters from 38 countries have confirmed that they will take part in Vienna next year. But that may not be a final number after all, as one broadcaster is yet to take a final decision about their participation." The ESCToday list shows the following 38 countries, including Bosnia and Greece, but excluding Albania.

ESCToday list

1. Armenia
2. Azerbaijan
3. Belarus
4. Belgium
5. Bosnia-Herzegovina
6. Cyprus
7. Denmark
8. Estonia
9. Finland
10. FYR Macedonia
11. Georgia
12. Greece
13. Hungary
14. Iceland
15. Ireland
16. Israel
17. Latvia
18. Lithuania
19. Malta
20. Moldova
21. Montenegro
22. Norway
23. Poland
24. Portugal
25. Romania
26. Russia
27. San Marino
28. Serbia
29. Slovenia
30. Sweden
31. Switzerland
32. The Netherlands
33. Austria
34. France
35. Germany
36. Italy
37. Spain
38. United Kingdom
39. Albania (Yet to make a decision)

ESCToday confirm that Bosnia have not withdrawn their application, thus have been included in the provisional list. Both the EBU and ESCToday also explain that Greece is provisional pending their membership application, which the EBU also state will be granted at this December's General Assembly. The EBU would not have issued Greece an invite to take part, if they had doubts that NERIT would not be given membership, nor would they have them showing in the provisional list of confirmed participation. Doing that would be like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted (that's an idiom which means attempting to prevent a problem only to find it has already happened). ESCToday clearly show it is Albania who have yet to decide, and thus would be the 39th country. We cannot say Luxembourg is the "unknown country" as their sudden change of heart occurred after the reports from the EBU and ESCToday. If Luxembourg do decide to comeback in 2015, would make them the 40th (albeit that Albania confirm, and Greece is given membership).   Wes Mouse | chat  14:19, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

So B-H "deserves" to be in our list ? ^^ --Wikays (talk) 14:34, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

@Wikays: what are you trying insinuate? We are an encyclopaedia, not a news website. All content has to be verified by citing reliable sources. I've already provided a source from ESCToday that shows B-H included in the provisional list of confirmed countries. That source is also used within the article. Albania is also in "our list" (as you put it), because of the source used which quotes RTSH saying their Eurovision participant will be revealed on 28 December. Again, a source used, to cite what was quoted, and can be verified by clicking on that source and reading it.   Wes Mouse | chat  15:00, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm trying to ask you if B-H is DEFINITELY confirmed as a participant of ESC 2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikays (talk • contribs) 15:25, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

And as I said, we're not a news website, so anything could be "definite" or "indefinite". We merely write encyclopaedic content (information of researchable mater) based on what can be verified from published reliable sources. As it stands, there are publications across the Internet that state Bosnia as confirmed, as those publications are "reliable sources", then we have near-accurate information to verify what we add to this article. No source, no content! Plenty of sources = plenty to verify what we write on any Wikipedia article (including this one).   Wes Mouse | chat  18:39, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Ok i'm sorry, thank you for the answer. Wikays (talk) 10:50, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

@Wesley Mouse:, I think there's a problem. You don't have any guarantee that the list of ESCToday is the same as the one the EBU does have. The ESCToday list has 38 countries with some that are provisional (B&H and Greece). The one of EBU is clearly said to have 38 confirmed (and sure) countries, plus one undecided, plus Greece. I don't think that I'm reading too much into the source, I'm just trying to be logical. Anyway... Maybe I'm wrong. In a few months, we'll have the complete list, and we'll know. After all, we all make mistakes... Yoyo360 (talk) 15:34, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

@Yoyo360: considering that the founder of ESCToday Mr Sietse Bakker now works for the EBU, then I think it is safe to say that ESCToday's information is going to come very closely from the EBU sources. Although both the EBU and ESCToday sources are worded differently, their basic context is the same. Not brain-science, but common logic. And you're forgetting the main benefactor here, both lists are only provisional at this stage - even the EBU said all countries have until a specific date to change their minds about participation. Perhaps we need to rethink about the section title for participation, as the current "Confirmed" title is rather misleading, especially when we're dealing with "provisional" information.   Wes Mouse | chat  15:39, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

I agree that this section requires a title change. I added the few sentences to the top of this section for that reason alone but a title change would probably make things much clearer that this is not a 100% final confirmed list of participants. Probably something along the lines of "Provisional list of participants" would work. Pickette (talk) 23:17, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

I have no objections if you were to implement that change, Pickette. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 08:55, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

 Update Pickette, Yoyo360 and Wikays; I've renamed the section title so that it is clear that the list of participants are only provisional and subject to change. In regards to Bosnia and Greece, I have placed ref notes next to them both, thus allowing us to provide a more in-depth explanation into their unique situations, as this is something that is rare for this project. The new prose information for them both can be found at Eurovision Song Contest 2015#Notes. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 16:20, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Bosnia and Herzegovina isn't include in this list, because it's not an official confirmation, the same thing for Greece, so 39 countries, excluding Greece and Bosnia Herzegovina. Correct it please. Wikays (talk) 12:10, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

@Wikays: this was already discussed in the thread above, for which you also participated and agreed on how the situation was being handled. Leave it be! Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 12:24 pm, Today (UTC+0)

@Wikays: do not refactor talk page comments like you did in this edit in which you deleted my comment. I've now restored it. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 13:29, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Also, as it has been addressed the list is not a list of confirmed participation, such list will not be published by the EBU until January 2015. The list on this article is a provisional list, and that is noted with the section title. In regards to Bosnia-Herzegovina and Greece, it was agreed by consensus to use refnotes beside both countries, in order to provide an in-depth prose into their unusual circumstances. The likelihood of that being changed again is unlikely. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 13:35, 5 November 2014 (UTC)