Talk:Faggot

Use against trans women

This slur is frequently used against trans women. Therefore, I think that there should be a section of the article talking about this. 92.0.35.8 (talk) 22:11, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

@92.0.35.8 no Matteow101 (talk) 21:25, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

@Matteow101 Why not? JohnLaurensAnthonyRamos333 (correct me if I'm wrong) 19:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

This slur is frequently used against all people who were amab because it functions as gender policing.--Reprarina (talk) 02:14, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I think its use a slur for trans women is notable enough on its own though. It may well be used again "all people who were AMAB", sure, but it isn't as such a "slur for AMABs". It's for gay men - and for trans women. It IS a thing. Trans women get called it for being trans woman. Nobody gets called it merely for being "AMAB" alone. StrexcorpEmployee (talk) 01:25, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

US pejorative slang

This is an incredibly American article.

It has a short section detailing 'importation by and usage of the word within the United Kingdom' - except it really just isn't a word used much if at all as a pejorative / homophobic slur in UK culture. It is well-known, from aforementioned US media / cultural imports, but that's the point; it's known as something the Americans say.

British don't really use it, mostly because it's so confusing and weird to do so. We already (as mentioned) use 'faggot' for several innocuous things and it's a stupid-sounding word; 'fag' is universally a cigarette not a gay man in normal conversation... British teens will literally just use the direct call-out "Gay" as a pejorative and standard-strength homophobic slur (what a weird thing to be writing, by the way). If stronger is needed, they'll just add "Fucking" to something like 'queer' for best aggressive articulation of the mouth. 'Faggot' isn't harsh-sounding enough for the way Brits swear and curse.

So, look; this article is about a word which, due to awareness of Americanisms, causes problems from time to time in the UK (notably with censorship of the Christmas song 'Fairytale of new york') but this article should be far more clearly marked as being about a US slang pejorative term, as it's really not that in the UK and i just don't feel that this article reads clearly enough in that manner.

(And if you simply cite sources & examples, then yes of course you're going to very easily find all of the few dozen sensationalist examples in the media where it has been held up as a problem - and you're just going to ignore or miss the huge cultural backdrop of correct context - ie; you will get the wrong impression.) 2a00:23c7:3119:ad01:9de0:d1c8:7b0f:934d (talk) 17:01, 25 December 2022: (UTC)

• • What are you talking about? There is a section on British use that says all this. Did you even read the article? Dronebogus (talk) 05:42, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 15 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Faggot. Faggot moved to Faggot (disambiguation). (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks (contribs) 15:17, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Technically "performed by" me per MaterialWorks's WP:RMTR due to protection. DMacks (talk) 16:02, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

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Faggot (slang) → Faggot (slur) – Slur seems more accurate than slang. While the article does mention that some people have reclaimed the term, it's much more widely perceived as a slur, isn't it? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 14:51, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

• support per nom—blindlynx 15:27, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 16:19, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Estar8806 (talk) 17:25, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support, as per nominator. Paintspot Infez (talk) 17:43, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. It is only a slur in the US. The article encompasses British usage of the term, which has a different meaning and is not a slur. "Slang" would be broader and better captures all the meanings of the term discussed in the article. Walrasiad (talk) 15:48, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

  I'm not American and I recognize it as a slur. The use in the United Kingdom section refers to other usages of the word, like the meatball, etc. It doesn't say that directing this specific term at a gay man wouldn't be considered offensive, just that other words are more commonly used for the same purpose. Since this article is specifically about this usage of the term and not about meatballs or cigarettes, that shouldn't really impact the title of this article. I knit and there's something called faggoting. I wouldn't claim that saying that to a guy was perfectly fine just because it happens to also be used as a knitting term, y'know? Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 16:03, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

The content of the article seems to be encompassing the term in all its slang uses, not merely as a slur. If you want to reduce the article to the US slur alone, then some content should be removed (to, say, a parent article on its other usages). Which seems to be rather pointless duplication. It seems to be more expedient to just keep it all here, and leave the title broad. Walrasiad (talk) 16:50, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) We already have faggot which disambiguates the other uses. Mentioning that there are other uses in the UK seems fine as background context. As I said, the UK section mentions that this is used as a pejorative there so saying this is simply a "US slur" is inaccurate. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 16:56, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

• Move to Faggot. This article is definitely the primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 16:54, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
  • Support this, clearly PRIMARY.--Ortizesp (talk) 14:54, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
  • Support move to Faggot as very clearly the primary topic over the bundle of sticks, the meatball, or any other usage. :3 F4U (they/it) 23:44, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
  • Support move to Faggot per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. In any case, oppose proposed move to Faggot (slur). If it's to remain disambiguated, whether the disambiguator is slang or slur simply doesn't matter. Neither is "more accurate" than the other. Therefore no good reason to move. --В²C ☎ 04:29, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Removal of "Reclamation" Section

Struggling to see the necessity of an entirely new section for less than a paragraph of words with three different sources dating back to 2020 and 2019. It could very well, and likely should, be shifted into the "2010s-2020s" section of use, where both the sources originate from and the point of "Reclamation" is fully emerged.

Putting it up to the Talk page for other users to discuss before any action is taken. Vilo2023 (talk) 20:47, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

That 21st century section is for music rather than the word in general —Panamitsu (talk) 22:55, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, missed that headline. Even still, the "Reclamation" section could very well be made into a section of "Use", rather than having a tab to itself. Vilo2023 (talk) 16:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Other uses

I think the lead needs to indicate that in non-american countries (UK/NZ/etc), a fag or faggot refers to a cigarette (and it has several other less-common meanings). It was only a few years ago that I learnt that the American meaning is not a cigarette. I realise that there is a disambiguation, but it should be noted here that the definition is not just a slur, as it mentions in the rest of the article, and as what the article cunt says.

I added the cigarette definition to the lead and it was removed by Clovermoss. What do you think? —Panamitsu (talk) 23:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

This article here is about a single meaning. Other meanings go on other pages instead, per Disambiguation standard. As the Hatnote says:

For other uses, see Faggot (disambiguation).

DMacks (talk) 00:01, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

I think it's not nessecary to include this information in the lead because we already link to the disambiguation page and this article is about the slur and not the other uses of the term. I will also note that this slur's usage is not restricted to the US. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:02, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

"For other uses" does not make it clear that it has other meanings. This is not like Mercury planet versus the mercury element, as they are spoken words. This is just like how "cunt" can be a compliment in New Zealand, whereas it is a slur in the US. Yes, it is not restricted to the US, but it is the US that most associates "fag" with a slur. —Panamitsu (talk) 00:15, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

"For other uses" does not make it clear that it has other meanings – I disagree with the premise of this argument completely. Anyways, I'll wait for the input of other editors because I think we're kind of talking past each other at this point and unlikely to convince the other of why we think the way we do. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:33, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

This hatnote is exactly the style recommended by WP:HATDAB, our sitewide guideline for these sorts of things. DMacks (talk) 00:53, 29 April 2024 (UTC)