Talk:Henry Murray

Unabomber: Ted Kaczynski

The connection to the Unabomber I have traced back to Chase and what Kaczynski told him - so I formulated that accordingly. I replaced the link with reference to the book.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Irmgard (talk • contribs) 10:09, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

CIA's head of the TSS Sidney Gottlieb

Regarding a connection between Murray and Gottlieb, I found only lots of third hand texts, most of them very similar and in one or other way conspiration theory-oriented, no real evidence, so I left this out. --Irmgard 10:09, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree we should take out the connection to Sidney Gottlieb until it can be firmly established. I will be searching for more reliable sources about this. --AI 20:45, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

What Relevance does the detailed discussion about Hitler and homosexuality have to do with understanding Murray?

While it is of potential interest to some, I fail to see how the third paragraph under career is necessary for an understanding of Henry Murray and his work. I think there should be more discussion about his need theory and press. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ccxsen (talk • contribs)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ccxsen (talk • contribs) 00:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

NPOV and unabomber connection?

It seems to me that the experiments conducted at Harvard, said to have produced the Unabomber, have been minimised in this description of Murray. Barely a mention is given to the somewhat extreme nature of the experiments and the link to the Unabomber is presented as tenuous. I can only see one motivation for this and it represents a breach of NPOV.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.184.30.16 (talk • contribs) 14:47, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I concur. There's a whole book (controversial, true, but very notable) on this subject. Murray's mind-control/ego-destruction research was significant and ethically gray, even for the most stalwart cold warrior. A couple sentences on a topic of such obvious interest, and with such ample source material to draw from, looks suspiciously like somebody trying to protect Murray's legacy. —PopeFauveXXIII 02:34, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. If a book is controversial, it's likely that someone is taking issues with what the author is presenting as "truth". The ultimate source for this is what Alston Chase says he was told by Ted Kaczynski. (Of course no one else can verify the claims since Harvard doesn't appear to be allowing anyone to view the study: [1].) We should fee free to mention these claims to the extent they were notable enough to be discussed in reliable secondary sources, but we shouldn't accept them as "truth". -Location (talk) 00:55, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

I completley agree and have drafted an edit I think is apt:

=== Harvard human experiments, 1959–62 ===

In 1947, he returned to Harvard as a chief researcher, lectured and established with others the Psychological Clinic Annex.

From 1959 to 1962, he conducted a series of psychologically damaging and abusive experiments on 22 undergraduate students, many of whom were minors. These experiments, conducted under the guise of stress studies, aimed to break the participants' will through what Murray described as "vehement, sweeping and personally abusive" verbal attacks. The students, believing they were given the unique opportunity to be empowered in an exclusive academic program, were instead subjected to intense psychological manipulation, which was recorded and repeatedly shown to them, amplifying their distress.

One of the most notable participants was 17-year-old Ted Kaczynski, who later became known as the Unabomber. Already socially isolated and psychologically fragile, Kaczynski experienced significant mental distress from these experiments. Some scholars, such as Alston Chase in Harvard and the Unabomber: The Education of an American Terrorist, suggest that this trauma contributed to his later radicalization and violent actions.

Murray used his position at Harvard to lure vulnerable students into these harmful experiments, treating them as mere guinea pigs, with profound indifference to the psychological damage he inflicted.After the experiments, the students were discarded without follow-up care or concern for their well-being, which one would expect as a minimum from a Harvard professor of psychology. This lack of oversight is particularly concerning given Kaczynski’s subsequent descent into violence, which might have been noticed or prevented with proper care. The ethical concerns are further compounded by suggestions that Murray's work may have been connected to, or supported by, the CIA's MKUltra project, which sought to develop mind control techniques during the Cold War. Daniel Caspi (talk) 14:40, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

References

TAT fallout

the TAT is no longer considered valid, so I will correct the statement that it is widely used by psychologists.

it is used by social workers and other less qualified personnel as an icebreaker, not a diagnostic tool, however, that may be only for the Rorschach, so I will yield to discussion. Llama (talk) 04:34, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Harvard Human Experiments - Mk Ultra?

Were his experiments under the Mk Ultra project? The sources don't mention this. Zambelo; talk 02:28, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

since then 3 sources on the subject have been added:

8. Chase, Alston (Jun. 2000). "Harvard and the Making of the Unabomber." The Atlantic, vol. 285, no. 6, pp. 41-65.

11. Moreno, Jonathan D. (2012). Mind Wars: Brain Science and the Military in the 21st Century. New York: Bellevue Literary Press, NYU School of Medicine. Revised and updated. ISBN 978-1934137437. Originally published as Mind Wars: Brain Research and National Defense. Washington, D.C.: Dana Press (2006).

12. ^ "MKUltra: Inside the CIA's Cold War mind control experiments". The Week. July 20, 2017. Retrieved December 23, 2017. Daniel Caspi (talk) 14:43, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Positive psychology

Murray's identification of core psychological needs (Murray's system of needs), including Achievement, Affiliation and Power (1938) provided the theoretical basis for the later research of David McClelland and underpins development of competency-based models of management effectiveness (Richard Boyatzis), Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and ideas relating to positive psychology.

— Henry Murray's page

I asked a reknowned Dutch positive psychologist if he could give some citations for Murrays supposed contribution to positive psychology. He stated that Murray's theories are not considered as fundamental for positive psychology. Therefore I removed "and ideas relating to positive psychology." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mlh 8861 (talk • contribs) 13:02, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Dispute Regarding the Legacy Section

There is a disagreement about whether the Legacy section of the article should include a mention of the ethical controversy surrounding Murray's Harvard experiments. While the controversy is mentioned in other parts of the article, I believe it is important to also include it in the Legacy section for a more balanced view. The other editor has reverted my changes, arguing that it is already covered elsewhere in the article.

Daniel Caspi Daniel Caspi (talk) 15:05, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Third opinion: The content seems due for inclusion. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 18:48, 26 August 2024 (UTC)