Talk:Hindu terrorism

Edits

@Portwoman please cite the sections you are using to remove "alleged". The citations do have cases where the news only states "close to" or the like. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 17:48, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Im not using sections, but refering to references which state otherwise. Portwoman (talk) 17:51, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I am asking you to cite the portions of those references that mention what you are trying to implement. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 17:52, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

@Portwoman do NOT change the lead till you acheive consensus for your edit. You have not only not achieved consensus, you have also not made any efforts to provide any sourcing for it. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 18:05, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Neither does this mean that you have achieved consensus.

so, please wait and let other editors conclude wit their respective opinions.Portwoman (talk) 18:14, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

WP:ONUS. Its up to you to show why your proposed wording is correct. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 18:22, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Actually the onus is on the editor who originally added these words, to prove that they follow the sources listed. — kashmīrī ^TALK 19:16, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

The current sentence closely follows a version that has been in place since atleast the last five years - [1] - Possibly much older. At this point, it is very much the longstanding status quo and would require consensus to change. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 20:04, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a live encyclopaedia. It's really ok to remove wrong information even after 20 years. — kashmīrī ^TALK 22:45, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Obviously.
But that wasnt the point, was it? The onus lies on someone trying to change longstanding info. My response was to you saying the onus was on someone else; That is not so.
If someone is changing longstanding info and gets reverted, WP:BRD,WP:ONUS apply. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 05:19, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

That said, terrorism is not a phenomenon unique to organisational members. Lone wolf terrorism is a well-attested phenomenon also in India (shall I mention Nathuram Godse?) — kashmīrī ^TALK 22:48, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

The phrase "alleged members" was added in 2014[2] when the article was titled Saffron terror. The lead in that edit read:

Saffron terror is a neologism used to describe acts of violence apparently motivated by Hindu nationalism. They are perpetrated by members, alleged members and former members of the Hindu nationalist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and its affiliate organisations such as the Vishva Hindu Parishad, Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad, Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram and others.

It was added by @Kautilya3: (pinging so he can weigh in on the discussion). Schazjmd (talk) 22:49, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Recently, I stumbled upon a webpage discussing Hindu terrorism, and I was surprised to see the name of RSS (Rashtriya Swyamsevak Sangh) mentioned there. It should be noted that RSS is a nationalist organization, not a terrorist organization. I kindly ask for the prompt removal of its name from that page. Kunal582002 (talk) 12:07, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Despite RSS group being a nationalist organisation within, the attack investigations and the supreme court hearings bought up perpetrators linked with the group. And there's nowhere mentioned RSS is a terrorist organisation. It's only declared that some RSS leaders involved in the terrorist incidents as stated above. So I don't think any changes are required, as it seems to be an ideological diversion here. Constantiyespole (talk) 11:33, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2024

This article, especially the, "Other incidents" section is full of false allegations. Someone must remove them. You can add, "Some State Governments are witch hunting Hindus and trying to implicate them in false terrorism cases." 2406:7400:90:92A7:1C81:5D6C:7364:B74C (talk) 12:09, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. MacAddct1984 ^{(talk | contribs)} 12:58, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Please remove the false allegations from this article, especially from the, "Other incidents" section.-2406:7400:90:92A7:1C81:5D6C:7364:B74C (talk) 13:13, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 July 2024

In the "Other incidents" section, please change, "The Indian Home Secretary R. K. Singh said that at least 10 people having close links with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and its affiliated organisations were named accused in various acts of terror across India.[72] According to released documents by WikiLeaks, Congress(I) party's general secretary Rahul Gandhi remarked to US Ambassador Tim Roemer, at a luncheon hosted by Prime Minister of India at his residence in July 2009, that the RSS was a "bigger threat" to India than the Lashkar-e-Taiba.[73] At The Annual Conference of Director Generals of Police held in New Delhi on 16 September 2011, a special director of the Intelligence Bureau (IB) reportedly informed the state police chiefs that Hindutva activists have either been suspected or are under investigation in 16 incidents of bomb blasts in the country." to, "The Indian Home Secretary R. K. Singh said that at least 10 people having close links with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and its affiliated organisations were falsely named accused in various acts of terror across India.[72] According to released documents by WikiLeaks, Congress(I) party's general secretary Rahul Gandhi alleged at a luncheon hosted by the Prime Minister of India at his residence in July 2009 for the US Ambassador Tim Roemer, that the RSS was a "bigger threat" to India than the Lashkar-e-Taiba.[73] At The Annual Conference of Director Generals of Police held in New Delhi on 16 September 2011, a special director of the Intelligence Bureau (IB) reportedly informed the state police chiefs that Hindutva activists have either been suspected or are under false investigations, in 16 incidents of bomb blasts in the country." 103.216.233.47 (talk) 05:54, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Arjayay, Xoocit, Magentic Manifestations, Soni, Rohitsetthachok, Toadboy123, RogerYg, please carry out the above request.-103.216.233.47 (talk) 14:55, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

•  Not done. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary sources. Get better sources that support your claim. Soni (talk) 15:03, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

@Soni: None of those allegations have been proved, so please just add the term, "allegations" as I have requested above (I have edited each sentence).-103.216.233.47 (talk) 16:10, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

You may add, "Trying to control the damage, the Congress acknowledged that Gandhi had indeed spoken to Roemer on the issue." 103.216.233.47 (talk) 16:42, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

You can add, "Rahul's assumptions are preposterous. The Congress party is promoting Hindu-Muslim divide," as per BJP spokesperson Tarun Vijay.-103.216.233.47 (talk) 16:56, 7 July 2024 (UTC) 103.216.233.47 (talk) 16:56, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Please also add, "It is shocking that there is a race in the seniorCongress leadership to indirectly or directly support jehadi terror and to project Hindus as terrorists in this country, that too in gross violation of established diplomatic norms and procedures," senior RSS leader Ram Madhav responded. 103.216.233.47 (talk) 17:23, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

UnpetitproleX, CapnJackSp, please respond.-103.216.233.47 (talk) 06:00, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Just to make it easier for others to understand, that IP is asking to change what there is in the "Other incidents" section, to, "The Indian Home Secretary R. K. Singh said that at least 10 people having close links with the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and its affiliated organisations were falsely named accused in various acts of terror across India.[72] According to released documents by WikiLeaks, Congress(I) party's general secretary Rahul Gandhi alleged at a luncheon hosted by the Prime Minister of India at his residence in July 2009 for the US Ambassador Tim Roemer, that the RSS was a "bigger threat" to India than the Lashkar-e-Taiba.[73] At The Annual Conference of Director Generals of Police held in New Delhi on 16 September 2011, a special director of the Intelligence Bureau (IB) reportedly informed the state police chiefs that Hindutva activists have either been suspected or are under false investigations, in 16 incidents of bomb blasts in the country. Trying to control the damage, the Congress acknowledged that Gandhi had indeed spoken to Roemer on the issue. "Rahul's assumptions are preposterous. The Congress party is promoting Hindu-Muslim divide," as per BJP spokesperson Tarun Vijay. "It is shocking that there is a race in the senior Congress leadership to indirectly or directly support jehadi terror and to project Hindus as terrorists in this country, that too in gross violation of established diplomatic norms and procedures," senior RSS leader Ram Madhav responded."

Arjayay, Xoocit, Magentic Manifestations, UnpetitproleX, CapnJackSp, Rohitsetthachok, Toadboy123, RogerYg, Apart from the request above, in the Terminology section, under the, "Hindu terrorism" and "Hindutva terrorism" sub-section, please change the last sentence from, .....such as Pragya Thakur and Aseemanand, have been arrested and tried to, .... such as Pragya Thakur and Aseemanand, have been arrested and tried.^[7] Aseemananand has being acquitted of all charges. and according to Amit Shah, Pragya Thakur has also been cleared of all charges; Amit Shah also condemned the Congress party for coining the imaginary term, "Hindu terror".". Please also read through the entire article, it is completely anti-Hindu and is against the WP:NPOV rule! Please change it to become more neutral.-2406:7400:90:92A7:98E9:41A1:8E37:C924 (talk) 12:20, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm skeptical how much of this is based on RS, but Ill go through these sources in a few days and have a look. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 07:57, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

@CapnJackSp: Please also read through the entire article, it is completely anti-Hindu and is against the WP:NPOV rule! Please change it to become more neutral.-2406:7400:90:92A7:884A:1F5:AE5C:C0E7 (talk) 12:14, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 15:18, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

References

References in the Lead

Since this is a contentious topic, we need strong WP:RS references in the lead too, and any accusations should have credible sources. Also, any claims, opinions, and content without WP: RS references should be avoided. Thanks. RogerYg (talk) 23:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Added missing references for the 2007-2008 attacks in the lead. Also for clarity of the chronology and context, the attacks need to be mentioned before the alleged accused, as the primary attacks in the sources are 2007 Samjhauta Express bombings and 2008 Malegaon blasts. RogerYg (talk) 23:19, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 October 2024

In the, "2008 western India bombings" sub-section of the, "2007-2008" section, please change, "NIA, National Investigation Agency, has found no evidence against Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur and it has recommended the court to drop all charges against her.[59][60] following which Bombay High Court granted bail to Pragya Thakur on 22 April 2017." to, "NIA, National Investigation Agency, has found no evidence against Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur and it has recommended the court to drop all charges against her,[59][60] following which the Bombay High Court granted bail to Pragya Thakur on 22 April 2017." Please also remove the </ref> tag in the sub-section just above that. In the first sub-section of the, "2007-2008" section, the last sentence has two full stops, please correct that also. 2406:7400:90:5E60:2FAD:64ED:1D27:CE84 (talk) 17:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

•  Done Thank you for the suggestions! Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)