Talk:Honolulu/Archive 1

Editing done

Gerald, You must be kidding. Do you work for DBEDT? Honolulu is hardly the "...economic center of ...the larger Asia-Pacific Rim region". Aside from not even being part of the "Asia-Pacific Rim", its location is considered by those economic powers that are part of the rim (Seattle, San Francisco, LA, Tokyo, Taipei, Hong Kong, etc.) to be "remote". Neither people nor cargo, moving between the larger North Pacific ports of entry, come through Hawai'i. As a resident, I cetainly wish there were some truth in what you wrote, but at best, Honolulu is a quasi-central location between the US west coast and Asian east coast where certain kinds of economic promotion and support mechanisms (like the East-West Center) are well suited to be located. Otherwise, those economic powers have pretty much ignored Hawai'i and all of the rest of the Central Pacific through the 20th-21st centuries.

Sorry, I wrote a lot more here, but somehow lost it. Basic points: I encourage you to work on Hawaiian and Honolulu articles (actually, I see you have contributed a lot of good stuff in the historical areas), but you need to be careful not to delete factual information already in the articles, and avoid duplication by checking around to see if there is already an article better suited for the info you wish to add (there are City & County of Honolulu and O'ahu articles for island wide stuff, for government stuff, for climate, etc. This article is on the place: Honolulu; therefore your geography descriptions were wrong. Also, I'm unaware of any current plans to construct a fixed rail on O'ahu. Legislative and City Council actions this year essentially relate to "appointing a committee" to look into it.

I tried not to revert your stuff (an option I was tempted to use), but would not because I feel your additions were put in the article in good faith. Therefore I "edited mercilessly". Some of your additions were good and I kept those or moved them to a more appropriate article. I looked over some of your other very prolific stuff on Hawaiian History and historical places, and it is all very good. Not sure what happened with your addditions to this article but a number of the facts you inserted in the place of perfectly good stuff were questionable. - Marshman 00:29, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

Public transport

Perhaps the Bus Rapid Transit system is also worth mentioning, since it seems construction has already started on it? (Kuhio Ave. is such a mess now...  :( ) KeithH 18:22, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

Yes. Certainly will be a reality long before a fixed rail will be - Marshman 07:51, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

I don't really understand why people (as a whole) would be so apathetic towards a rail. I mean, would you (serious here) have a train of individual cars, each with their own unique operator, driving at their own preferences (since a common critique is that Hawaii drivers have not adapted to the mainland's way of literal tidal waves of cars on the freeway, and considering that the roads in Hawaii were planned around already existing buildings rather than vice versa), but anyways serious question here! Or would the people prefer an actual train capable of high-speed 100+mph with dated bullet train technology, or 200+mph with maglev technology (although the latter might become more of a safety hazard)? User: You like wait in traffic EHHH? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.253.185.178 (talk) 05:42, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Link to Official Web site

Under ""External Links"" I Put In the Current URL for Honolulu's Official Web Site. The City and County of Honolulu has recently replaced its http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us URL with http://www.honolulu.gov.

BKH2007, 8 July 2004, 7:16 a.m. (Hawaii time)

Picture

This seems to be a request for a picture of the State capitol. There are lots already up in various articles. I will see if this is a linking problem - Marshman 04:11, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yes, this building well represented and linked; see Hawaii State Capitol - Marshman 05:11, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

1. timeschristianemackenzie Times Feller (talk) 16:25, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Sister Cities?

Honolulu needs a section on sister cities. Honolulu has several sister cities.---JeffreyAllen1975 21:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Semiprotection

I just put a semi-protected tag on the page to deal with the recent vandalism. Put the "vprotected" tag on it first, but decided it was too extreme and changed it to "sprotected". — Dale Arnett 01:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Flag of the City

Does anyone notice that the city's flag on this page reads "CITY AND COUNTY OF THE HONOLULU"? What is the "THE" doing on the flag? The county page does not have the indentical flag - also note the different shades of the yellow. Etoncal 22:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Infobox

I added the city seal from the city's website. Though I wished it didn't have a white background. I could not find the city's flag on a public website. Also, does anyone know how to get rid of the seal below the seal? I does not appear in other infoboxes, so I a miffed as to why it is here. User:Thurifer 03 Oct 06

Found a fix for the infobox error...the box was not set up to allow the okina - a hawaiian apostrophy of sorts. So I removed them for a cleaner look. User:Thurifer 04 Oct 06

Survey on proposal to make U.S. city naming guidelines consistent with others countries

There is a survey in progress at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements) to determine if there is consensus on a proposed change to the U.S. city naming conventions to be consistent with other countries, in particular Canada. This proposal would allow for this article to be located at Honolulu instead of Honolulu, Hawaii, bringing articles for American cities into line with articles for cities such as Paris and Toronto.--DaveOinSF 16:46, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

However the proposal would allow U.S. cities to be inconsistent with the vast majority of other U.S. cities and towns, which (with a few exceptions) all use the "city, state" convention. -Will Beback 23:40, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Is it pronounced "Honolooloo" or "Honolülü" (as in German, for example)? I'm talking about the traditional name, as it would be said by native Hawaiians. I presume it must be a transliteration from the Hawaiian language, but do we have any information on that? Thanks 70.52.18.58 22:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Your spellings are pronounced the same. Trentc (talk) 05:22, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

No, they are not. The German "ü" is generally narrower than the English "oo" (except maybe in certain Midwestern or Southern accents).76.113.105.186 (talk) 05:15, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't know why someone keeps changing the pronunciation of Honolulu to something that sounds Japanese. The first post on this topic has it correct, in IPA-c, it is spelled hoʊnoʊ’lu:lu. It is not Hon-o-lu-lu, or Hana-lu-lu, or Hano-lulu. If you don't live in Hawaii or know how to speak Hawaiian, stop changing it to the way people from the mainland pronounce it. I was born, raised, and live in the islands, so I have a better idea how to correctly pronounce it, than someone who doesn't live here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawebnerd (talk • contribs) 08:49, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

History and how it became mainline

we should include a part on how honolulu went to ticky-tacky to mainline with all the art,shops,djs... 00 tux(my point of views(for npov), howto customise a signature) | talk 18:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

chinese neighbourhoods

which are the chinese neighbourhoods of honolulu. other than chinatown.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.12.180 (talk • contribs)

Honolulu is actually far more racially integrated than most cities. Thus I don't expect a clear list of where it is not integrated to appear here.--Kukini ^{hablame aqui} 13:35, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Not an incorporated city

The article mistakenly says that Honolulu is Hawaii's only incorporated city, but this is not true. There are no incorporated cities in Hawaii; the city as a governmental entity doesn't exist at all in the state. Honolulu itself has never had an independent government. In 1905 the Territory of Hawaii created Oahu County, which was controlled by a Board of Supervisors and was the lowest level of government on the island, and no city government existed. In 1907 the county changed its name to the City & County of Honolulu and added the office of mayor, but this wasn't a consolidation with the City of Honolulu because no such entity existed. This change seems more like an effort to have the legal name of the government match the common name of the place it governed, rather than a consolidation of redundant city and county functions. Ohm 813 (talk) 17:57, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Media section overgrowth

Does anyone agree that the media section of this page has grown to be disproportionate to the size of the article? I feel the information, (basically lists and tables) could be better off in its own article or in categorical format similar to San Francisco. See also Media in San Francisco, California and the category footer there. --Travis Thurston+ 22:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I unilaterally moved media section into Media in Honolulu, Hawaii. If anyone objects to this, please discuss here.--Travis Thurston+ 02:01, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

There is currently a proposal on the table to amend the Wikipedia naming conventions for US cities to follow the AP Stylebook's suggested names. This would effectively move a number of US city articles currently on the list, so Honolulu, Hawaii would be moved to Hawaii Honolulu. To comment on this discussion, please go here. Dr. Cash (talk) 16:51, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

• Strong oppose (note that I will be commenting elsewhere too) — Hawaii includes areas that aren't Honolulu, specifically seven major islands and large communities such as Hilo. Why ever would we want to move it to Hawaii? Nyttend (talk) 16:54, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

• I think this is supposed to be for Honolulu rather than Hawaii. I've fixed the above note. --Polaron | Talk 17:15, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

• The result of the debate was move to Honolulu. Cheers, Rai•me 17:08, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Infobox

How many parameters of the infobox are appropriate for this article? Honolulu CDP is a community within the City and County of Honolulu. I believe the motto has to do with the latter, correct? What about the mayor? Articles about Houston neighborhoods do not mention that Bill White is the mayor. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:29, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Focus of the article

Also we need to rework the article so that it focuses on Honolulu CDP. More or less we treat it like a neighborhood and a city at the same time. I have duplicated much of the content to the "City and County of Honolulu" article. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:13, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Alright, now that the county has the motto field, how does the motto apply to the Cdp? The motto is of the whole city and county and not only the cdp. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:15, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Sister cities

There needs to be an article on the sister cities of Honolulu. Here are a few:

• San Juan, Puerto Rico

The only reference however is from wikipedia. I've added the section and anyone that has iformation please add it on. Thanks,-RoyalMate1 00:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The city's official website has a list. Musashi1600 (talk) 02:55, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Most isolated large urban area?

I heard it mentioned during a TV broadcast of a Univ of Hawaii football game that Honolulu is the most geographically isolated large urban area on earth- that is, of all urban areas on Earth, it's the longest distance away to another urban area of comparable or larger size (which would be San Diego or Los Angeles, I'd think?). Can anyone verify this from a citable source? I thought Urumqi, China was the most isolated large city on Earth, but maybe it's Honolulu? Ferd Blivid (talk) 19:36, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Dialing in the distance between Urumqi and Beijing into the Great Circle Mapper (IATA airport codes URC and PEK respectively) shows they're about 1500 miles apart. In comparison, Honolulu is about 2400 miles from San Francisco. If there's an urban center on the planet that's more isolated than Honolulu, it's not Urumqi, at the least. Musashi1600 (talk) 09:37, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I always heard that Perth, Australia was the most isolated urban area, but using that same source, it says 1681 miles from Melbourne, Australia, so I guess Honolulu is the most isolated of its size. Perth has almost twice the population of Honolulu, while Urumqi has a much larger population than Perth, so I'd say that all three cities probably are the most geographically isolated OF THEIR SIZES, but we would be comparing three different definitions of "urban area" here. sbrown146 (talk) 14:22, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

This article needs an economy section...

This article needs an economy section. Anon134 (talk) 01:06, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

• It has one now, but it is underdeveloped. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:25, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Obama in intro

Some time ago, a note was put into the intro about Honolulu being Barack Obama's birthplace. This placement is currently being disputed — not by someone contending that he was born outside of the USA, but by someone who believes that it's better placed elsewhere in the article. Why not have it in the intro? Most notable people wouldn't deserve to be mentioned in the intro, but the sitting President of the United States isn't an "average" notable person. While New Haven, Connecticut doesn't mention native George W. Bush in its intro, Hope, Arkansas and Milton, Massachusetts mention Clinton and George H. W. Bush in their intros. Let's keep Obama in the intro, simply because of his importance, at least until he's out of office. Nyttend (talk) 19:02, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

New Haven is a large city (over 600,000) while Hope(10,000) and Milton (26,000) are much smaller towns. In general, larger locations are notable for many things and many notable people are born in them. Hope is notable only for Clinton's birth, but Honolulu is notable for many things. To be consistent with other cities, I think it should be moved to the body of the text, such as a "notable residents" section, because that is where such things usually go.   Will Beback  talk  19:40, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

PS: Virtually the entire body of the Hope article was in the intro, so I went over there and added some section headings to break it up.   Will Beback  talk  19:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, none of these cities are the birthplace of the sitting president. My point was essentially "if they have it for the former president, Honolulu should have it for the current one". Whatever his significance several decades in the future, Obama is overwhelmingly significant at the moment, and therefore more important than almost anything else that could be in the intro. Communities far smaller than Hope are notable even without notable residents; do you mean something like "famous" or "important"? Nyttend (talk) 20:54, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that, from an encyclopedic point of view, a sitting president is any more notable than a former president. If we made that the practice then we'd have to re-write countless articles every four or eight years. Not to mention what would happened if we applied the same principle to the heads of government of 200+ countries.

Wikipedia treats virtually every settlement with a name as presumably notable. But in the broader meaning of the term, a typical way in which small towns become notable is when people born or raised there become famous. If famous people hadn't been born there, Hope would not be as prominent as it is. On the other hand, the fact that Obama was born in Honolulu does little to add to its notability. If Obama had been born in Chicago or New York, would we change the lead to reflect that? I don't think so.   Will Beback  talk  21:11, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Isolated capital?

Should some mention be made of Honolulu being the most isolated capital? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.104.8 (talk) 15:11, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Isolated from what? I suppose it is the only state capital where only a fraction of the state can be reached over land. Hawaiʻi island has over half the land etc. it might be the farthest away from any other state capital, but Juneau, Alaska has got to be close. Come up with a source. W Nowicki (talk) 23:42, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

addresses

In the article, there are some street addresses. It is not excessive and it is helpful. I support inclusion. Will you agree with this? By doing so, we will have discussed this. User F203 (talk) 18:48, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Chinatown, Honolulu

A claim on the Chinatown page holds that Honolulu's Chinatown was the first outside of Asia; to me this is dubious as San Francisco I would think would be older, unless the Hawaiian kings had mandated a Chinese district in Honolulu or if any resident Chinese in those years had formed one. Can anyone here provide such a citation, or perhaps also write the Chinatown, Honolulu article? NB simple agglomerations of Chinese businesses and residents do not make a Chinatown; the name should be in use or its equivalent ("New Shanghai", "Little Taipei", "China Alley" whatever....).Skookum1 (talk) 15:29, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

The name is in the NRHP, so I created the article. However, have still not found any basis of that claim either of "firstness". I will dig a bit more. As indicated above, Honolulu has traditionally been more ethnicaly diverse with less well defined neighborhoods than mainland cities. That is mentioned in the NRHP nomination, etc. W Nowicki (talk) 23:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Chilean Quake

Information regarding the quake, in my opinion, does not belong in the very top section of this article on Honolulu. It should probably be moved to a new section on the Hawaii page, as it concerns Hawaii as a whole, not specifically Honolulu. 24.10.220.113 (talk) 00:28, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, somebody already deleted it. 24.10.220.113 (talk) 00:28, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

In fact, it was vandalism. Nyttend (talk) 05:12, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Ah, alright, thought it looked very out of place. 24.10.220.113 (talk) 22:35, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Rail

There is far more on the rail (722 words) than the existing bus system (122 words). I strongly suspect bias or edits directly from the mayor's office, as rail is still a political issue. I won't arbitrarily crop out sections of the article, but would like to request additional review. Spellbook (talk) 09:24, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it's someone trying to deliberately politicize that section as much as it's someone who tried to include a summary of the HHCTCP article (but took too much space in doing so), since that's basically what the text there is. I've changed it so it's now closer in length to the material about TheBus; if people want to know more about the rail project, that's what the other article is for. Musashi1600 (talk) 07:39, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Merge with Honolulu County, Hawaii

Merge with Honolulu County, Hawaii -EPICWHALE —Preceding undated comment added 01:00, 10 June 2010 (UTC).

oppose — especially since you give no rationale. The county covers much more than just the city, and this one is too long already. The transportation section, for example, mght belong in the county if that is the entity that proposes the rail system, for example. In fact, it mentions a "city council" but not sure if there is one, separate from the county council? Very bad choice of name for the county of course, since it tends to get people confused. Almost as bad "Hawaii" itself which is an island, a county, and a state too. But even Hawaii County, Hawaii is separate from Hawaii (island) and those do cover exactly the same area. W Nowicki (talk) 18:05, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Marijuana

Shouldn't there be a section in the article, or at least a minor passage, about the major marijuana consumption in Honolulu? There is a lot of popular culture related to this topic as well, for example Kid Cudi's song Mauwi Wauwi --188.178.215.134 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:47, 19 September 2010 (UTC).

Only if there are reliable sources. Pop tunes are not! W Nowicki (talk) 21:35, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

It is time to re-state Honolulu CDP as 'City and County of Honolulu'

This whole article is a bit of an anachronism. If you use the definition: "CDPs are delineated solely to provide data for settled concentrations of population that are identifiable by name but are not legally incorporated under the laws of the state in which they are located", Honolulu is now misstated; it IS the 'City and County of Honolulu'.

There is a 'City and County of Honolulu' which has a Charter, is governed by a City Council which is elected by the residents of the 9 Council Districts. http://www.honolulu.gov/chc/about.htm http://www.honolulu.gov/refs/rch/2002-2010Supp.booklet.form.pdf (Note: This copy is a scanned version of the charter in booklet form. The pages are not in sequence, but they would be if the scanned version were re-assembled as a booklet.) (As of February 20, 2001) Section 1-101. Incorporation -- The people of the City and County of Honolulu shall be and continue as a body politic and corporate by the name of "City and County of Honolulu," hereinafter in this charter called "city." By that name it shall have perpetual succession. http://www.honolulu.gov/refs/rch/rc010101.pdf Section 1-102. Geographical Limits -- The island of Oahu and all other islands in the State of Hawaii, not included in any other county and waters adjacent thereto, shall constitute the City and County of Honolulu. http://www.honolulu.gov/refs/rch/rc010102.pdf (Which means Nihoa, Necker islands, Gardener Pinnacles and French Frigate Shoals are technically part of Honolulu. They add a whopping 3 sq mi to the area and zero people. This was done for their protection.) Section 2-101. Powers -- The city shall have and may exercise all powers necessary for local self-government and any additional powers and authority which have been or may be hereafter granted to it, subject only to the general laws of this state allocating and reallocating powers and functions pursuant to Article 8, Section 2 of the Constitution of the State of Hawaii. http://www.honolulu.gov/refs/rch/rc020101.pdf Section 4-101. Executive Power -- The executive power of the city shall be vested in and exercised by the mayor, as chief executive officer, except as otherwise provided by this charter. http://www.honolulu.gov/refs/rch/rc040101.pdf

Here is the Map. It is the whole island of Oahu. End of story. https://www.honolulu.gov/council/ccl.htm

I am certain that there might be some valid reasons to use Honolulu CDP, but for the most part, no one except people promoting the fiction of a small, intimate, remote, exotic vacation destination rather than a city bigger than Wyoming, Vermont, North Dakota, Alaska, South Dakota, Delaware, Montana or Rhode Island. The ex-mayor's assertion that Honolulu is the 12th largest city in the US is not an exaggeration. To think Pearl City, Waipahu, Mililani, Kailua, Kaneohe, Waimanalo or Hawaii Kai are really independent towns or 'suburbs' in any real sense is absurd. They are indistinguishable in every way from communities of a big city. Loyalgadfly (talk) 13:45, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Not sure the above is a specific proposal or a rant? There already is an article about the city-county government. As per my comment above, I think this one is already too long so would oppose a merge, if that is what you are saying. There is also the Oahu article about the georgaphic entity. By their natures an urban area is an amorphous thing, vs. a CDP that has defined boundaries, or legal entity like a chartered city (of which Hawaii has none) or county. Also the 2010 census might have different CDP borders, so probably not worth a lot of work now if its all about to change. Now if you want to help, it would be constructive to add citations for the needed facts, ro clarify specific things that are unclear. W Nowicki (talk) 21:35, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Honolulu in the North Pacific

"Honolulu is also referred to as the business and trade capital of the pacific, and is the largest city in the South Pacific . . ."

Honolulu is in the North Pacific, not the South Pacific: i.e., it is north of the Equator. This statement needs to either be deleted or re-worked to indicate what is meant by "South Pacific." 69.42.3.105 (talk) 23:54, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I am guessing that is what the "disputed" tag was for. Indeed, this was unsourced, and as you noted not true at all. I tried to make it a bit more general. There are certainly larger financial centers in both North and South Pacific, Tokyo and Sydney come to mind. I guess one might say it is the financial center of the Pacific Islands (or is Japan an island?) or unoficial financial center of Polynesia maybe. How is that? W Nowicki (talk) 21:35, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

VANDALISM In the percentage of races living in the city there has been clearly vandalism in the article.--83.39.3.6 (talk) 12:44, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Port d'Hanarourou, desse. par Adam d'apres Choris.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Baku is not a sister/twinned city to Honolulu. Yerevan, Armenia is

I want to make it clear that Baku is not a twinned/sister city of Honolulu. The Honolulu city council recently approved of Yerevan as a twinned city instead. What happens is that Azeri's deface pages that are easy to edit and change reality into fitting their need for false advertising. Check the records!

46.162.233.177 (talk) 05:33, 10 July 2012 (UTC)Astroprogenus

Not according the the City and County of Honolulu's web site!

According to International Relations, Official Web Site for The City and County of Honolulu, January 18, 2012, retrieved July 9, 2012, #2 on the Sister Cities list is Baku, Ajerbaijan, and the date of Council Resolution is August 5, 1998. If that has changed, or if Yerevan, Armenia has indeed become a Sister City, please contact the City and County of Honolulu at the phone number or address on the web page, or csd@honolulu.gov to get the information corrected. Peaceray (talk) 05:56, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Honolulu Mayor's office writes that Baku, Ajerbaijan is the sister city, not Yerevan, Armenia

I wrote to the csd@honolulu.gov email address, & this is the response that I got from the International Relations section of the Office of the Mayor, City & County of Honolulu:

Thank you for your email to the Customer Service Department in relation to the sister city of Baku. I have no idea where the Yerevan, Armenia, sister-city came from, but I can assure you that we have one with Baku, Ajerbaijan.

The correspondence included a PDF attachment of Honolulu City Council Resolution 98-206, that established Baku, Ajerbaijan as one of Honolulu's sister cities. That resolution is also listed under SISTER-CITY RELATIONSat "Honolulu City Council Policy Resolutions". www1.honolulu.gov. January 26, 2006. Retrieved July 14, 2012. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1= (help) Peaceray (talk) 20:17, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Adding an 'okina in a link: help

I need some help. I want to add an 'okina into a link to Makapuu, but I couldn't find the appropriate way to do that. Thanks Hto9950 (talk | contribs) 20:03, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Article should be deleted or merge.

There is no city of Honolulu. There is only the City and County of Honolulu. There is no legal basis for this article distinction of some 2000 CPD, which has since changed, as being a city. There is one mayor and one goverment for the entire island. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.87.66.250 (talk) 11:59, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

CDP vs. CCD

Are the boundaries for Honolulu's census-designated place (CDP) and census county division (CDD) the same? If not, what's different and which should we use to define the "city" for statistical purposes in the demographics and geography subsections? --Criticalthinker (talk) 11:57, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

realistic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.217.57.141 (talk) 03:49, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Huh? --Criticalthinker (talk) 04:10, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

@Criticalthinker: They are not the same. Census county division (CCD) is the more stable construct, so should be the area which this article defines. These are cooperatively defined between the state of Hawaii and the Census Bureau to fill the void of Hawaii's lacking lower-level administrative subdivisions such as townships. Hawaii has 44 CCDs. Census designated place (CDP) is a more transitory concept which can change every ten years, with each decennial census. The Honolulu CDP of 2000 defined an area very similar to the CCD, but was split in 2010, so now the 2010 CDP map has the combined Urban Honolulu CDP and East Honolulu CDP roughly coinciding with the Honolulu CCD. Wbm1058 (talk) 20:52, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Why so much info about Honolulu County

This is not the Honolulu County, Hawaii article. This article is about the census county division, not the "city and county". Why is there so much info about the County in this article? I've fixed some of the more egregious problems with this article, such as showing the county's flag and sister cities, but this article still needs allot of cleanup. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 02:13, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Structure

Hi. I'm going through all the US Cities (as per List of United States cities by population) in an effort to provide some uniformity in structure. Anyone have an issue with me restructuring this article as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline. I won't be changing any content, merely the order. Occasionally, I will also move a picture just to clean up spacing issues. I've already gone through the top 20 or so on the above list, if you'd like to see how they turned out. Thoughts? Onel5969 (talk) 19:40, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Honolulu proper

It's used in the article. What is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eijfoiwjfijfi (talk • contribs) 14:04, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

The geographical area covered by this article is Honolulu CCD. So, I changed it to be more clear: Honolulu proper → Honolulu CCD. CCD is the acronym for census county division. – Wbm1058 (talk) 17:18, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Honolulu CCD != the City of Honolulu

I lived in Kailua on Oahu in Honolulu County for 14 years. No one on the island considers Honolulu CCD to be the whole of Honolulu proper or the urban area of Honolulu. This is a truly artificial designation, & any attempt to shoehorn it in as a definition for Honolulu is meaningless to the local population. Much better to have an article for Honolulu CCD itself & work with people on the ground & with the Honolulu government itself to come up with a more meaningful definition of the City of Honolulu's bounderies. Peaceray (talk) 19:00, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that's right. The City of Honolulu's boundaries are the whole island and the whole of Honolulu is the City and County of Honolulu. There is no difference between the city and county, as they have the same government. Yet there is some desire to define "Honolulu proper" as something less than the whole island, although as far as I'm aware there is no official way to define such an entity other than by using a statistical creation such as the CCD, which is one of seven on the island. Disclosure: Hawaii is one of only a very few states I have yet to set foot in, so I have no personal knowlege of the matter, and am relying entirely on reliable sources. The area defined by the infobox image File:Honolulu County Hawaii Incorporated and Unincorporated areas Honolulu Highlighted.svg seems to be the same or very close to the same as the area covered by the CCD. I'm interested in knowing more about exactly what the "incorporated" areas are on that map. Wbm1058 (talk) 20:48, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

I think I've figured it out. Kailua, Honolulu County, Hawaii is a census designated place (CDP) which is part of the City and County of Honolulu. The "incorporated" areas on that map are actually the census designated places on Oahu, as of 2000 or an earlier decennial census. CDPs are subject to change every 10 years; in 2010 the former Honolulu CDP was split into Urban Honolulu and East Honolulu CDPs. So the infobox picture is out of date. This is why I prefer to define the "city" (urban area) in terms of the more stable CCD. I understand that most locals probably have no concept of CCDs and CDPs. How many realize that the official city limits of Honolulu are the entire island? Wbm1058 (talk) 21:07, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Now I see a different census map which identifies the 2010 Urbanized Areas and Urban Clusters. "Urban Honolulu" covers a much larger area on this map. All of these maps are found at http://planning.hawaii.gov/gis/various-maps/2010-census-reference-maps/. The judicial districts map for Oahu is virtually identical to the CCD map; I've also seen the term Honolulu District, so I assume that means judicial district, and its virtually equivalent to Honolulu CCD. – Wbm1058 (talk) 00:34, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Just an aside, the way the counties in Hawaii work is more bizarre than one would think. The City & County of Honolulu includes the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands, including Midway Atoll. While this is weird geographically, it makes administrative sense as most boats heading to that remote portion of the state are coming from Oahu.

Equally confusing, there is a fifth Hawaiian county, Kalawao County. As of 2010, it had a population of 90, making it the second-least populous county in the country. The county is on the Kalaupapa or Makanalua Peninsula, on the north coast of the island of Molokaʻi.

Peaceray (talk) 01:00, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, regarding Hawaii's "Aleutian Islands" and the fact that those 3 square miles are part of the "City of Honolulu"... I did not know that!

I have heard of that (former) "leper colony county" however. Wbm1058 (talk) 02:17, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

• OK, I see that trying to force some artificial construct such as Honolulu CCD, Honolulu District, Urban Honolulu or Urban Honolulu CDP to be the "official name" for the article at the WP:primary topic Honolulu is a nonstarter. There is no common understanding of any single specific boundary for "Urban Honolulu" when even the Census Bureau has two different definitions (the smaller CDP and the larger urbanized area). So now I am wondering why the article about the City & County of Honolulu is not the official name for the common name Honolulu. The article at Honolulu right now has a very poorly defined scope, which makes it look like some sort of content fork:
  • Honolulu County (officially known as the City and County of Honolulu)...
  • Honolulu (officially known as the City and County of Honolulu)... That parenthetical should not be omitted from the latter article, it leads to confusion. The map in the infobox which defines boundaries for Honolulu CCD/District is also misleading. Wbm1058 (talk) 02:17, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

The "City and County of Honolulu" is the county seat of the "City and County of Honolulu"? Wbm1058 (talk) 02:23, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

• I see that Hilo, Hawaii (population over 40,000) is not a city, but rather the largest census-designated place (CDP) and the largest settlement in Hawaii County, Hawaii – which unlike Oahu County, has yet to change its name to "City and County of Hilo". Of course city vs. CDP has been debated: Talk:Hilo, Hawaii § City Status. List of counties in Hawaii has a table with a column that specifies "county seats". All of them are CDPs (except Honolulu) of course. The reference for that is the National Association of Counties (NACo), the only national organization that represents county governments in the United States. They use an asterisk to note that Honolulu has a consolidated city-county government. So when they say that "Honolulu" is the "county seat" the asterisk says the "county seat" is not a CDP as the others are. Unless their table is out of date. Because there no longer is a single Honolulu CDP, it was essentially split into Urban Honolulu CDP and East Honolulu CDP.
• The US Census' Hawaii County Selection Map shows HONOLULU (part) – now I know the other part is the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands includingexcept Midway Atoll. Their list of "cities and towns in Hawaii" is really a list of CDPs. – Wbm1058 (talk) 15:47, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
• Per the Guide to 2010 Census State and Local Geography - Hawaii:
  • Hawaii is the only state that has no incorporated places recognized by the Census Bureau.
  • Hawaii has 44 CCDs (first established for the 1960 census), 151 CDPs, and 23 urban areas (3 urbanized areas and 20 urban clusters).
  • The three urban areas are Urban Honolulu, Kailua (Honolulu County)–Kaneohe and Kahului, which seems to include Wailuku. Hilo is just an urban cluster.
  • There are actually three "urban Honolulus". From smallest to largest:
    • Urban Honolulu CDP
    • Urban Honolulu urbanized area
    • Urban Honolulu Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) – MSA title changed: Honolulu, HI (old name) → Honolulu ('Urban Honolulu'), HI (new name) New OMB 2013 Metropolitan Area Definitions Census Hawaii Metro Notes
      • No word yet on whether the MSA includes the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands;)

— Wbm1058 (talk) 17:28, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

• More maps:
  • Urban Honolulu, HI urbanized area
  • Urban Honolulu MSA... yup, it includes "the Aleutians" – a lot of blue on that metro area map :o)
  • Hawaiian Home Lands, Counties, County Subdivisions, and Places (2010) – Note that the Honolulu CCD (county subdivision) is labeled "HONOLULU (pt)". I believe that means the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands are part of the Honolulu CCD.
  • Hawaiian Home Lands, Counties, County Subdivisions, and Places (2000)

— Wbm1058 (talk) 18:35, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Downtown Honolulu

I see that there is a separate article on Downtown Honolulu. In my opinion, three articles on "Honolulu" is one too many. I think the content of this page that's not redundant to one of the other pages should be moved to either Honolulu County, Hawaii or Downtown Honolulu, as appropriate, and then Honolulu County, Hawaii should be moved to Honolulu. I suppose one could say that Downtown Honolulu is the county seat of Honolulu. If there must be a third article on Honolulu, it needs to explicitly define (disambiguate) its geographical boundaries with its title, e.g. Honolulu CCD. Comments? Wbm1058 (talk) 19:03, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Should their be an article within the affiliations of Honolulu. So what the percentage of Socialists Asians in the city. Jerry Steinfield (talk) 01:49, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Adding Glenn Medeior

I do not know how to properly edit a wiki article. May someone please add Glenn Medeiros to Honolulu's notable people? Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.155.231.205 (talk) 07:21, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

 Done - Onel5969 (talk) 12:21, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Robert Louis Stevenson

Robert Louis Stevenson was not born in Honolulu. RLS was born in Edinburgh in 1850. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.106.19 (talk) 17:39, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

While Robert Louis Stevenson may have been born in Edinburgh, Scotland, the fact that he stopped "for extended stays at the Hawaiian Islands , where he spent much time with and became a good friend of King Kalākaua" probably qualifies him as one of the notable "residents of Honolulu". Peaceray (talk) 22:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I disagree. Under that definition you would be better claiming he was a notable resident of Western Samoa, where he lived for the last four years of his life. If you were to extend to every author a place they visited as qualifying them as a "notable resident" then Wiki would become hopelessly clogged with superfluous information. RLS spent the greater bulk of his life out with Honolulu. In his late 30s early 40s he settled in Western Samoa. I think you need to provide external reference that RLS actually lived in Honolulu to back up your assertion, and that means owning or renting a house at the very least. Just because the American author Diana Gabaldon stayed in Inverness whilst researching part of her "Outlander" series does not qualify her as "resident of Inverness". That said I have no argument to the main article mentioning the visit of RLS to Honolulu, but claiming he was a "notable resident" is stretching the facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.106.19 (talk) 00:18, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

This clearly depends on one's definition or explanation of what is a resident. I do not know or whether RLS slept on his yacht or took lodging in Honolulu. The Bottle Imp states that RLS was in Hawaii for five months. I resided in California for four months & voted in a presidential election there. According to U.S. law, I was considered a California resident at the time. I have lived in a half dozen states, & I say that I was a resident of each of those states, having either voted or paid taxes in each of those. Perhaps there is a source that would indicate what RLS or King Kalākaua themselves would call his time here.

I do not know how long Diana Gabaldon stayed in Inverness & whether she was on a tourist visa or was considered a resident alien.

Peaceray (talk) 01:11, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Twinned with Pyongyang?

I was reading WP's article on Pyongyang, North Korea and was surprised to see that it stated that Pyongyang was twinned with Honolulu. The capital of North Korea—or any North Korean city, for that matter—twinned with an American city? Can that be possible? Depending on its accuracy, this should either be removed from the Pyongyang page or added here. – AndyFielding (talk) 08:40, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Not according to either SisterCities.org nor the city of Honolulu. The source on the Pyongyang article referenced a letter to the editor of a Honolulu paper from a H.S. student, hardly a reliable source. I have deleted the reference on that page. Thanks for the heads up.Onel5969 (talk) 14:00, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Timeline of Honolulu

What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 08:26, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Split proposed for Notable people section

I propose a split for the Notable people section of this article, to be called List of people from Honolulu to be included in the Category:People from Honolulu, Hawaii, Category:Lists of people from Hawaii, & Category:Lists of people by city in the United States, & to be modeled after List of people from Seattle & List of people from Hawaii.

My reason for this is the length of the list has grown with inclusions that are trivial to the Honolulu article itself & add unnecessarily to its length. For instance, Sarah Palin did attend Hawaii Pacific University in Honolulu for a brief period, & I doubt that Honolulu had much impact on her or her politics, & she certainly had little impact on Honolulu. Nonetheless, I think it is important to note somewhere that she was a Honolulu resident. I just do not think that it is pertinent to the Honolulu article.

Peaceray (talk) 16:13, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Support - best to move this on its own -- Moxy (talk) 16:36, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

It is interesting to note that Eileen Anderson, the first female mayor of a major US city, and Linda Lingle, chief of staff of Anderson's cabinet and, later, the first female governor of Hawai'i, were very politically active at Honolulu Hale and only two blocks away from Sarah Palin attending school at Hawai'i Pacific University.

The notable people references in the Honolulu article take up alot of space. Please create a separate article for List of people from Honolulu. 67.53.57.210 (talk) 23:49, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

• Hi all. Since it seems that the only opinions are to do it, I went ahead and split off the notable folks into their own list. However, I didn't break into alpha sections, but rather into professional types. There seemed to be too few in certain letters. I think this way looks better. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 22:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Honolulu v.s. Honolulu CDP

Honolulu is the WP:COMMONNAME for the City of Honolulu. As a City and County of Honolulu resident for 14 years, I will attest that what Kamaʻāina refer to as Honolulu is amorphous & is not synonymous with the Honolulu CDP. Indeed, as census.gov notes:

• "2010 Geographic Terms and Concepts - Place - Geography - U.S. Census Bureau". Https:. Retrieved December 26, 2015. By agreement with the state of Hawaii, the Census Bureau does not show data separately for the city of Honolulu, which is coextensive with Honolulu County.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link)

Some residents will say that Waialae Country Club, ʻĀina Haina, & even Hawaiʻi Kai are all part of the City of Honolulu, yet these are all in the East Honolulu CDP. Likewise, some might exclude some of the military bases east of Pearl Harbor while others would include Red Hill Underground Fuel Storage Facility & the military reservations to the north of it.

If you really are fastidious about boundaries, transform the Honolulu CDP redirect into an article. Then you can include all the appropriate CDP statistics to your heart's content. But stop confusing urban Honolulu with the CDP.

Peaceray (talk) 19:57, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Honolulu/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

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First foreigner?

The website quoted as being the first foreigner in 1795 did not say he was the first foreigner, especially since he was not. Oliver Holmes arrived early and do you want to guess where he landed first? Luinaea (talk) 00:34, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

@Luinaea: Do you have a citation for this? Peaceray (talk) 21:36, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

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The source is not listed but implied at the top. Jerry Steinfield (talk) 00:42, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

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Link for New Zealand consulate

New Zealand is missing in the list of countries with consulates in Honolulu. Can someone please add this link in the section "Foreign Missions on the Island"?

https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/countries-and-regions/north-america/united-states-of-america/new-zealand-consulate-general-honolulu/

I tried several times but couldn't get the citation in the right format. Thanks. Foreignshore (talk) 12:36, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

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Outdated section on Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation

The section on Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation needs to be updated. It reads "The opening of the Honolulu Rail Transit is delayed until approximately 2020, as HART canceled the initial bids for the first nine stations and intends to rebid the work as three packages of three stations each, and allow more time for construction in the hope that increased competition on smaller contracts will drive down costs;"

"Intends to rebid" implies the rebidding hasn't happened yet. If so, then it would be the unlikely the system would open as early as 2020. So either the tenses of "intends to rebid" need to be updated or the opening date needs to be updated or both.

Thisisnotatest (talk) 02:17, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Update to demographics

2010 census population for Honolulu is Incorrect and need to be updated. Jerry Steinfield (talk) 00:40, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Restoring Infobox Picture

It seems to be the case that with basically every city I can think of, the first infobox picture is a picture of the city's downtown or city center/CBD.

See:

• Los Angeles
• Chicago
• Houston
• Vancouver
• London
• Omaha
• Miami
• Tokyo
• Beijing

However, for some reason, the longstanding photo of Honolulu's downtown in this article was replaced with a rather tight shot of a narrow stretch of Waikiki, which is well outside what the vast majority of Honolulu residents consider Downtown. Downtown is usually accepted to be somewhere between Ward Ave. and Nuʻuanu Ave., and Waikiki is quite far outside that area. To make matters worse, the photo is still captioned as "Downtown." I believe this is a result of someone, probably a tourist or else someone unfamiliar with Honolulu, replacing the photo while ignorantly believing that Waikiki is Downtown Honolulu (this is a popular misconception among tourists). I think we should replace the current photo of Waikiki with a proper photo of Downtown Honolulu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArdentArbitration (talk • contribs) 05:08, 9 March 2022 (UTC)