Talk:Hosni Mubarak/Archive 1

Archive 1

Thanks...

Hi, I just want to say it's interesting to read articles about past presidents and governers. I also happen to be doing a report on Hosni Mubarak for my 4th grade class on Egypt and I couldn't find any other info on him, so it was nice to find some info because I only have 2 more weeks until it's due. I'm glad I didn't have to research this for 2 more weeks, thanks to you! Thanks for making it easier to research for me!

                                        From
                           A 4th Grade student at Susan B.
                                       Paige H. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.136.248 (talk) 23:14, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

Edit request from Mshinawi, 13 April 2011

On April 13, 2011, Prosecutors have ordered that Hosni Mubarak and two of his sons be held in detention for 15 days as they are investigated.

Mshinawi (talk) 09:39, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Bility (talk) 16:24, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Trial of Hosni Mubarak

I've added a Template:Split section to the "Trial" section, because it's going to grow immensely as the trial develops and there's a logic to building the article now while things are still stable. An analogy to Trial of Saddam Hussein is also pertinent.—Biosketch (talk) 11:47, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

• Support  — but not until sufficient detail can be amassed. If, for example, the trial becomes postponed by the judge early in the proceedings, a separate article would not yet be warranted. Wait and see for a bit. Hamamelis (talk) 15:42, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

It will grow immensely only if the trial continues. Color me skeptical, but I still dont see this going very far. Additionally, he is being tried with his sons and with Habib el-Adly. How would that be treated, would this new article focus only on Hosni Mubarak? Until there is enough material on this "trial" to form a new article it should remain here. nableezy - 18:42, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

• Support However, there is no urgency to do the actual split. Collecting and arranging the relevant information from at least two articles is probably more important than speed.  Cs32en Talk to me  22:18, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

• Support. I think it is good to have a separate entry for Mubarak's trial, but on several conditions:

1. Information should be chronologically arranged. 2. Literature for further reading must be added. 3. External links must be added. Johnkatz1972 (talk) 11:55, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Removal of unsourced section?

The ,"changing economic scene", is unsourced. Shouldn't this be removed?--Jumper16 (talk) 17:50, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Who is Raúl Castro?

Raúl Castro is not even an Egyptian name.

Have you read the article about the Non-Aligned Movement? --Saddhiyama (talk) 13:24, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, but how is that is related to Mubarak?Nullslash (talk) 13:41, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

It's an international organization with an elected chairman. Castro was simply the predecessor of Mubarak. Favonian (talk) 13:42, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, but are you citing from another wikipedia page that does NOT having any citations? From the link that you gave it to make it says the following "This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (April 2011)". That mean you can't just added to Mubarak page from unreliable source. I will remove it.Nullslash (talk) 13:46, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Try this one on for size. Favonian (talk) 13:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Hosni Mubarak is still president

If we're gonna write information about someone in Wikipedia, we should write objectively and regardless of public opinion & unofficial information. Mubarak, legally, is still Egypt's president according to the Egyptian Legislative constitutional. As Mubarak's lawyer Fareed El-Deeb says, the Egyptian President never stepped down officially, and a telephone call to Omar Suleiman is not, in any way, constitutional. And therefore; his trial is Illegitimate. Article should be edited as he is, legally, still the President of the Arab Republic of Egypt. That's a fact!

CNN - Lawyer: Mubarak is still Egypt's president

Egypt’s Hosni Mubarak is still president, court has no legal jurisdiction: defense lawyer

Ramy Mehelba 18:49, 24 January 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by RamyMehelba (talk • contribs)

Moot, now. He isn't the president any longer and is now serving life in prison. HammerFilmFan (talk) 23:33, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

I think it would improve the Page and keep it from becoming to long...Kbodude (talk) 23:09, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Mubaraks' reported death

According to Ahram Online, Mubarak is still alive. The paramedics were able to resuscitate him. http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/45623/Egypt/Politics-/UPDATE-Mubarak-arrives-at-Maadi-hospital-after-hea.aspx 69.225.87.252 (talk) 21:52, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I cannot confirm this until the reliable sources confirm such. Until then editors, should assume that he is still living until then. This is because that he may recover later on. --Marianian^(talk) 22:09, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I am removing the death on this page because it is far from confirmed. Harpsichord246 (talk) 22:14, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

With regards to the third paragraph of the article, if he was sentenced to life in prison, and has died, or is clinically dead, he can't be said to have died 'before serving his sentence.' His sentence was to remain in custody until death, and even if he died the next day he would have served that. I know this is an update problem as we don't know his status for sure, but that's vague and misleading wording. 96.238.148.17 (talk) 22:19, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

However vague it may be, only certain information should be represented on this page. Harpsichord246 (talk) 22:22, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

The NY Times is now contradicting itself. On its main page it says he is on life support, however in the World section it says that he has been declared dead... -- ☑ SamuelWantman 22:25, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Can't we just wait it out for a minute to wait for more details (ideally correct ones). In the top section we should note that on this date, there were many sources claiming his death. Metsfreak2121 (talk) 22:27, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

But that should be it until rumors are confirmed. Metsfreak2121 (talk) 22:28, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I thought the NY Times was a reliable source, so when I saw it there I thought it was confirmed. -- ☑ SamuelWantman 22:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

No changes should occur until we know with certainty that Mubarak actually has died. Harpsichord246 (talk) 22:32, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Mubarak, according to most sources, is on life support at this time. Harpsichord246 (talk) 22:38, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Sam, usually the NY Times is a reliable source, however other prestigious sources have said otherwise. As of right now, it seems like nobody really knows anything completely reliable. Harpsichord is correct. We'll have to do the hardest thing possible for a Wikipedian: wait. Metsfreak2121 (talk) 22:57, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Now they've posted an article and say he is on life support after he was declared clinically dead. Either he is dead or he is alive! -- ☑ SamuelWantman 23:13, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

As It is important that we be conservative in our assessment and not jump to conclusions. We should maintain that Mubarak is alive and his condition is unknown. Harpsichord246 (talk) 23:44, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

"Clinically dead" is not the same as actually dead, it just means the patient is on life support. 203.173.200.223 (talk) 23:46, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

That is not necessarily true. Clinical death just means that your heart has stopped and therefore your body looses its blood circulation and intake of oxygen by breathing. Being on life support helps to restore these functions after you have been taken out of clinical death via resuscitation. Harpsichord246 (talk) 23:58, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

I have removed the section reporting on his "death". Until we have some reliable news from reliable sources that don't conflict with each other, we end up with nothing but unreliable material. I've also removed the current event tag.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:49, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

That is fine, although it would be best to have something referring to his condition at this time. Harpsichord246 (talk) 23:58, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

How would you do that and what sources would you cite to, at the same time avoiding all the back-and-forth assertions, denials, and contradictions?--Bbb23 (talk) 00:05, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

We would state that some had declared him clinically dead, but others have denied that. We could perhaps use this source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/19/world/meast/egypt-mubarak/index.html because it states that there are a number of possibilities. Harpsichord246 (talk) 00:09, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Now that there is full protection on this page, things will be managed with patience by the admins. Harpsichord246 (talk) 00:21, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit Request: Location of Death

On the page it incorrectly states that Mubarak died at the Toura Prison Hospital in Cairo, Egypt. That is incorrect. He died at the Toura Hospital, but the address of the hospital is located in Alexandria, Egypt. Go to the following link to see for yourself: [1].

KLN2000 (talk) 22:29, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Reports of his death have been denied by military officials. [2] Trinitresque (talk) 23:32, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Full Protection

I've fully protected the article for 1 day, until this shakes out. We don't need to have anything here until it can be sourced. Any admin should feel free to remove protection without permssion, should sources one way or the other prove the protection isn't needed. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 00:08, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

"US congress" isn't correct (it's a Senate committee, not a joint committee), and we could link the committee. Please replace

head of the foreign relations committee of the US congress

with

chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee of the United States Senate

Thank you. Nyttend (talk) 02:21, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

No opposition to this, so  Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:28, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Close to Death

The BBC and other sites have reported that Hosni is "close to death" after a stroke, as of 20 June [3]--Mjs1991 (talk) 06:51, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request

It will help those readers coming to the page regarding conflicting reports of his death (or just heart attack) on 19th June 2012 and not finding any mention, by adding an update such as "[treated with a defibrillator....]. On 19 June 2012, he was transferred from the prison hospital to intensive care at the Maadi armed forces hospital, with reports that he is close to death." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18515556 Widefox (talk) 07:10, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Can I also report that it was mentioned on Today on Radio Four this morning that he is now on a life support machine? I think that does suggest that the reports in this article about him being close to death are more than idle rumours. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 10:56, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

 Administrator note Can someone propose the exact wording they want adding to the article? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:31, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I would put the following at the end of the Health section (no new subsection):

On 20 June 2012, after conflicting news about Mubarak's health, it was reported that he went into cardiac arrest and was taken to a military hospital in critical condition.

http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2012/06/19/egypts-mubarak-dead-at-84/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.184.113.224 (talk) 14:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

It's not perfect but it's concise and doesn't give much detail (which is what appears to conflict). I'd also reinsert the {{Current}} tag at the top of the article.--Bbb23 (talk) 12:09, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

The page is now semiprotected. AndieM (Am I behaving?) 13:58, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

References

How did Mubarak become President ?

There is conflicting information on different wikipedia pages, about how Mubarak became President.

On the page which contains a list of all presidents of the Egypt Republic, it lists Neguib, Nasser, Sadat, Mubarak and Morsi and it says that some other guy was also briefly president after the assasination of Sadat and the "election" of Mubarak ( who was vice-president under Sadat ).

On the page about that other guy, who was the leader of the Egyptian legislature, it says that under the constitution, if the president died, he (the leader of the legislature) would become president for up to 60 days until there was an election for a new president. But after 8 days, he relinquished the presidency to Mubarak.

On the page about Mubarak, this issue doesn't seem to be mentioned at all.

So how exactly did Mubarak become president ? There obviously wasn't any sort of popular election in 8 days. Was he appointed president by some action of the egyptian legislature ? Was he able to be just appointed as his successor, by this interim president ? Did he succeed automatically because he was vice-president ? Or did he just "take over" ?Eregli bob (talk) 18:11, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Public Image?

Is this really a necessary section?

It definitely does not depict the whole story and therefore should either be completed objectively or removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.205.73.4 (talk) 23:24, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree completely, and am removing the section. Maybe later it can return in a much better form, but as it stands now, it is simply opinion, and can not be quantified. Jersey John (talk) 20:53, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Why is this article so poorly tended to?

Here it is, over one year later, and this sentence is still in the lead: "As of 20 June 2012, multiple sources reported that he was very ill, with some reporting that he was in a coma, others stating that he had had a stroke or had been on life support."

For the purposes of the introduction, which is meant to provide a broad overview of a subject, who cares what was the case as of a date one year ago? Is it still relevant now? Why is a random date from a year ago still in the lead paragraph? Moncrief (talk) 14:46, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Mubarak is a major news story today, and this article is still terrible and outdated. So odd! Moncrief (talk) 16:42, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Removed text

From 2005 elections; off-topic—article is about Mubarak, not Nour or political shenanigans in Egypt, per WP:COATRACK:

On the day of Nour's conviction and sentencing, the White House Press Secretary released the following statement denouncing the Egyptian government's action: "The United States is deeply troubled by the conviction today of Egyptian politician Ayman Nour by an Egyptian court. The conviction of Dr. Nour, the runner-up in Egypt's 2005 presidential elections, calls into question Egypt's commitment to democracy, freedom and the rule of law. We are also disturbed by reports that Mr. Nour's health has seriously declined due to the hunger strike on which he has embarked in protest of the conditions of his trial and detention. The United States calls upon the Egyptian government to act under the laws of Egypt in the spirit of its professed desire for increased political openness and dialogue within Egyptian society, and out of humanitarian concern, to release Mr. Nour from detention."

According to Reporters Without Borders; Egyptian media ranks 133 out of 168 in freedom of the press, showing an improvement of 10 places from 2005.

Emergency law rule

Egypt has been a semi-presidential republic under Emergency Law (Law No. 162 of 1958) since 1967, except for an 18-month break in the 1980s (which ended with the assassination of Anwar Sadat). Under the law, police powers were extended, constitutional rights suspended and censorship was legalized. The law sharply circumscribed any non-governmental political activity: street demonstrations, non-approved political organizations, and unregistered financial donations were banned. Some 17,000 people were detained under the law, and estimates of political prisoners ran as high as 30,000. Under the "state of emergency", the government had the right to imprison individuals for any length of time without trial. The government claimed that opposition groups like the Muslim Brotherhood could come into power in Egypt if parliamentary elections occurred. The government confiscated the group's main financiers' possessions, and detained group figureheads. Pro-democracy advocates in Egypt argued that this went against the principles of democracy, which included a citizen's right to a fair trial and their right to vote for whichever candidate and/or party they deemed fit to run their country.

From Presidential succession, per WP:COATRACK:

Ambassador Scobey summarised Mubarak's vision of the presidential succession, stating, "Indeed, he seems to be trusting to God and the ubiquitous military and civilian security services to ensure an orderly transition."

References

Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 23:54, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Photos / Images

Some problems with display, particularly text overlapping with images, but also placement of images should be appropriately located (context, etc.). Cleaned up some problems, but still needs work. 148.177.1.211 (talk) 13:29, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Muhammad death

Hosni Mubarak's grandson Muhammad died on 2009 and not 2014 (see Alaa's page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaa_Mubarak) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.127.54.132 (talk) 12:00, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

 Done. (edit) Thanks for catching that. The article said the child died of "head injury", but the citations I found said "cerebral hemorrhage" and there is no information as to what brought that about. I suppose a head injury is the likely cause, but that would be original research. I changed "head injury"to "cerebral hemorrhage". Richard-of-Earth (talk) 16:54, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 March 2017

The acquittal of Mubarak is mentioned only in the lead. It should be duplicated in the body article. Maybe create a subsection or a separate section. (As mere autoconfirmed user, see notice on the top of my talk page.) George Ho (talk) 21:57, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

 Not done You're not wrong, however please follow the edit request format by posting Please change X to Y to recommend the exact changes or additions you wish to make. Thanks IVORK _Discuss 04:05, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Here is the update. The "Acquittal" section should be added between "Health problems" and "Personal life" containing that update. --George Ho (talk) 19:58, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Here's my proposal from the sandbox. George Ho (talk) 05:07, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

 Done I put it in exactly where you said and with the text you linked and I made it clear in the edit summary that you wrote it. Then I added some to it and rephrased it. But your version was there for 12 whole minutes. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 06:40, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

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Tense change needed

In the third paragraph (just before the table of contents) the third to last sentence "Mubarak is detained in a military hospital..." should read "Mubarak was detained..." since the last sentence of that paragraph indicates he was released on 24 March 2017. Random character sequence (talk) 17:51, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Was just about to post the same thing -- can someone who has edit ability modify this? It is causing me indigestion Rejewskifan (talk) 03:33, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

 Done Thanks, however for future reference, please utelise the {{edit extended-protected}} or {{edit semi-protected}} etc template for edit requests in order to tag the article resulting in it being added to the appropriate lists (CAT:EEP or CAT:ESP) making it more visible to WP:XCONs than a mere edit log entry. — IVORK _Discuss 04:44, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Good to know, thanks for the info (and the edit). Random character sequence (talk) 16:18, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

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Awards edit

Could someone please edit into the award section Mubarak's 1983 award of North Korea's Order of the National Flag, first class with accompanying ref.歳 (talk) 00:28, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

References

Mubarak wealth

Some sources say 700 billion. Thoughts? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:22, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

The source provided on the List of wealthiest families page isn't any good. While reliable sources are reporting on the estimate, the estimate itself comes from a group of Egyptian lawyers, who are not neutral parties. WaPo has expressed skepticism. LargelyRecyclable (talk) 01:24, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

From the WP, the claim of 700 billion was made in 2011 by Egypt's top prosecutor General Abdel Meguid Mahmoud, and "might be wildly exaggerated" . Previous figures were $1 billion to $70 billion. In 2012, the Foreign Relations Committee in the People's Council gave a figure of 134bn but 70bn was still likely to be the real figure.[4] By 2013, prosecutors were stating that the true figure appeared to be approximately 1.2 billion USD (9 billion EGP).[5]. The Forbes source was from 2011, in no way supports that the claim was factual (just that it had been published in the WP and that even the 70 billion figure was dubious "while we've never calculated Mubarak's net worth, we felt confident that the $70 billion figure being thrown around was high... His fortune will be worth billions of dollars, just not $700 billion") and can thus be discounted as both misquoted and stale. ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 08:44, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

700 Billions dollars would be exceedingly unlikely. The GDP of Egypt was 200 B$ in 2011 - when he was ousted. To accumulate 700 B$ would require either siphoning a very large percentage of the GDP over 30 years, and/or exceedingly good investing (that wasn't exhibited in the governance of Egypt) - this is an extraordinary claim and doesn't seem to be backed up by solid sources (beyond the attributed stmt to those making the claim).Icewhiz (talk) 15:18, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Thank you very, very much everyone. I've changed it back to 70b at List of wealthiest families and added this ref. Please improve the ref if you like. Cheers. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:08, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Found my way here from RSN. I think the fact that Egypt's prosecutor saw fit to make what a major newspaper saw as an exaggerated claim about Mubarak's wealth is itself inherently suitable to the article. Lots of people are very rich but most of them don't have government officials inflate it publicly for them. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:53, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Where is Mubarac?

The article does not make clear where did Mubarac go in February 2011, after the revolution in Egupt.688dim (talk) 10:49, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

At the bottom it says he is in house arrest in Sharm El-Sheik. So still in Egypt. 85.19.140.9 (talk) 17:58, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Under the "Pop Culture" section would it be relevant to mention...

the internet's fascination with his suits? You know the ones that have his name written in the pinstripes? Lilly (talk) 21:00, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Pop culture sections shouldn't exist --Guerillero | My Talk 22:04, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

New Category

I Think we Should add this Category : Leaders ousted by a coup --Mr.Ibrahim.ID (talk) 00:38, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Wealth and allegations of personal corruption

Some News Agencies and newspapers said that Mubark's family had 5 billion Others say 40 others say 70 others say Mubark Has No Wealth so this section should be deleted because it has uncertain information and without a proof Ahlawy4ever (talk) 20:30, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Why no mention of his long involvement with Socialist International?

• [6]

--Mais oui! (talk) 06:36, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Your link shows that Mubarak's party was a member, and that Mubarak's party was expelled protests, on Jan 31, 2011. Still interesting, but has more to do with National Democratic Party of Egypt than Mubarak himself per se. The page for the former can state that from 1989 until Jan 31, 2011 NDP of Egypt was a member.

template:2011 Egyptian protests

{{editsemiprotected}}

please add this to the footer templates

{{2011 Egyptian protests}}

184.144.164.14 (talk) 22:23, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done --Dorsal Axe 22:35, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Consistent Verb Tense - Mubarak's Resignation

Please correct some of the verb tense errors in the passage on the protests, they are phrased as if they are occuring in the present (which they are, of course, but it isn't it more future-proof to state them in the past tense?)

On February 1, 2011, Hosni Mubarak announced that he would (instead of will) not contest the Presidential election in September 2011. ... On February 10, 2011, it was suggested that Mubarak might (instead of may) step down imminently.[49] ... At the same time, it was also confirmed that there was (instead of is) room for his resignation in the days and weeks following (instead of to come).

Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.50.33.252 (talk) 21:54, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 70.225.142.236, 11 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Days between Office = 10,712 days Called as "11000 days rule"

70.225.142.236 (talk) 18:58, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -Atmoz (talk) 21:24, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Udate - to step down

Sky news - Vice pres has announced the Mubarek has stepped down - handed power to the military. Off2riorob (talk) 16:05, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm reading that everywhere too. 134.39.27.36 (talk) 16:59, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the article was updated, a new beginning, good luck to them. Off2riorob (talk) 17:01, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't like the way the article covers the $70 billion claim

I'm not defending Mubarak at all, no doubt he and his cronies are very corrupt, but I don't like the way wikipedia is parroting the $70 billion claim. It is just utterly improbable, more than has ever been seriously attributed to any of the many dictators with bigger or richer countries to exploit. Psychologically it just isn't plausible: the rest of the elite wouldn't let him keep that much, the way corrupt dictatorships work is that the leader has to spend most of the loot buying his associates. There isn't a shred of evidence to support the number. As I understand it, it originated as a wild guess by a newspaper, and other newspapers are simply using each other's articles as sources. This is bad journalism, and surely the parroting of bad journalism is very bad encyclopaedia writing. Luwilt (talk) 03:49, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Stepping down

He is no longer the president as shown in the media, can we update the article? thanks --Camilo Sanchez (talk) 17:14, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

It's just a rumour at the moment. As far as I am aware, not a single media source has said that he has already announced his resignation. We don't change anything until we have a source to confirm that kind of information.--Dorsal Axe 17:16, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, its presently rumor and counter rumor. We have to wait for clear confirmation of such a thing. Off2riorob (talk) 17:33, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

He was trolling. He's not going to step down, it's clear now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.15.22.170 (talk) 22:13, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Can't refrain from pointing out the obvious now: he was trolling but forced to flee. I suspect he tried to troll his own military who trolled him back, but that's just my speculation... Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 18:27, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Religion is unknown

The actual religion of hosni mobarak is unknown and can not be confirmed.--216.249.11.108 (talk) 05:38, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

He is in the infobox as a sunni muslim but there is no content to support it in the article and it does seem to be uncited - has anyone got a citation? Off2riorob (talk) 17:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

http://altasese.com/hosni-mubarak-complete-profile-and-biography/ - here it says sunni but it is not a RS.although I am not certain if it is a WP:RS Off2riorob (talk) 17:40, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I tagged his DOB as uncited also - I found the year and the month here - http://www.mmc.gov.eg/branches/AIRFORCE/gg16.htm - Off2riorob (talk) 17:50, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I've received the impression from CNN & Al-Jazeera that there is some dispute over his date of birth; at least one commentator said he's "either 83 or 84; no one seems to know". It seemed plausible that his date of birth had not been officially recorded. There are two refs at the moment, neither in cite web format, and one of them is to a Google search. It's not necessarily going to be trivial to research. --93.96.136.249 (talk) 09:20, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Probably vandalism

Secretary General of Non-Aligned Movement Incumbent Assumed office July 16, 2009 Preceded by Raúl Castro

That can't possibly be true. Plus I searched Raul Castro's page for anything on EGYPT. Big surprise, nothing came up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.245.251.249 (talk) 17:54, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Well it is correct, and I can't see what searching Castro's page for Egypt has got to do with anything :) Greenman (talk) 23:55, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Grammar in Presidential sccession

The term scuppered, shown in the quote, below, is a British naval term, which, although technically correct, is an arcane, if not plebian, use of the word for this article. Furthermore, the sentence, as a whole, is an emotional statement rather than straight reporting, and should be reworded.

"However, the 2011 Egyptian protests may have scuppered this hope"

--Skaizun (talk) 17:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Is US sending Nicholas A. Veliotes or Frank G. Wisner ?

These three former US Ambassadors to Egypt served during the Reagan administration. I understand that one of them have been sent back there due to the late-January '11 uprisings against Hosni Mubarak:

• Alfred L. Atherton, Jr.,
• Nicholas A. Veliotes and
• Frank G. Wisner.

Since Atherton is now deceased, I assume the relevant person is either Veliotes or Wisner. Can anyone confirm this?

I just found out that it is Frank G. Wisner.LP-mn (talk) 01:07, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Source  Cs32en Talk to me  01:41, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Why is this page behind the times?

Sigh,

so much potential,

But when the page editor SHOUTS AT HIS AUDIENCE, and then THANKS them for listening
one knows all is not well in Wikipedialand.Thaddeus Stephens (talk) 02:56, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thaddeus Stephens (talk • contribs) 02:46, 30 January 2011 (UTC) 

I can't see anyone shouting except you. The page could do with updating, but we're all volunteers here. If you'd like to help, please suggest some specific text to add, with reliable sources. If you can't edit the article yet, you can paste your suggestion here. --Physics is all gnomes (talk) 14:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Secretary General of Non-Aligned Movement and Castro

Interesting Mubarak was preceded as the Secretary General by Cuba's RAUL CASTRO !!?!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.107.88.130 (talk) 13:15, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Stepright, 28 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Somebody needs to add the info about the current events. I will too, so let me please.

Stepright (talk) 16:33, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit requests should be copy-pastable, ready to be instated as is. --78.35.212.131 (talk) 17:47, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I second you on that Stepright. I came here looking for a little more information only to find nothing on the ongoing crisis.Dreammaker182 (talk) 17:53, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

This is not a properly formulated edit request. Also, you are autoconfirmed and are free and in fact encouraged to boldly edit the article yourself. --78.35.212.131 (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I added a sentence in the lead referring to his current struggle with a link to the current events article. Glennconti (talk) 19:38, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Controversy during presidency

Gosh, I was reading the sections about describing Mubarak as a Dictator - that's one heated argument. The main difficulty was establishing whether presenting Mubarak as a dictator was or was not NPOV.

I feel the issue here is not so much the mention of Mubarak as a dictator in the first few lines of the wikipedia article. The issue here is that there is absolutely no mention of the words "dictator" or "dictatorship" (or, in fact "totalitarian", "regime", "police state" or anything along those lines) throughout the entirety of this article. I feel this state of affairs is more POVed than it is NPOV. (The only mention of the word "dictator" is under the last section, "Popular Media" - 'trivia facts' essentially - where he is mentioned as being listed in Parade Magazine's list of most popular dictators.)

Perhaps we should create a section called "Controversy during Presidency" and we can group under that heading the examples of the emergency state; the fishy elections; the way he rose to power; increased corruption since he's been into power; the cutting-off of internet and SMS during the protests last night and today [7]; increased censoring prior to the internet cut-off [8]; how it is very difficult (impossible?) to legally remove power from Mubarak; the assassination attempts; the unprecedented discrepancies between Egypt State TV and what is really happening on the street; banning the only opposition organisation from open political activity (effectively only allowed people to vote for him); enforcement of curfews as per the recent protests; and so on. It can be mentioned that he has been largely described as a dictator (or at least as an oppressive leader) (citing the examples and links/resources that people mentioned above). It is obvious, I feel, that it is very difficult for a media organisation to allow one of its editors to describe a living and current ruler of a country as a "dictator" explicitly for many reasons. It will be easier to return to the definition of Mubarak as a "dictator" explicitly when he is not in power anymore (regardless of whether this happens due to old age or because of the protests).

So, the proposal is: create a "Controversy during presidency" section, group all the controversial/critical parts of the article under that section to give a clear idea of the manner in which Mubarak has been conducting presidency over the last 30 years. Support or Oppose? ¬ jujimufu ^(talk) 16:14, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Unsourced inflammatory statement

Please remove or source this statement:

"On a personnel level, each individual officer can and will violate citizens' privacy in his area using unconditioned arrests due to the emergency law."

Individual officers will violate citizens privacy? A statement of this nature without a precise source has no place in a BLP. If it is true, however, it should be directly tied to a reliable source and a translation of the law. Please remove it or source it immediately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.99.173.137 (talk) 16:03, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I've edited the text cobcerning this, should make more sense now but further improvements along the point made are welcomr. Zhanzhao (talk) 11:17, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Ancestry

I was curious if he might be a Copt or whatever, which I presume he isn't. But should be something about his orgins in Egyptian ethnic subgroups, parents, etc. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 10:08, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of unsourced sections violating BLP and V

In doing research for 2011 Egyptian protests, I came to notice that there were several very negative sections in this article with no sources at all. These sections have been flagged as POV and needing sources since October 2010, and much of the content has sat unsourced in this article since 2009.

Unsourced criticism like this is unacceptable per WP:BLP and WP:V. As the community has already had ample time to provide sources, and not done so, I am now removing the sections. The edit is here if people want to revisit the content.

Personally, I strongly suspect there is a lot of true criticism of Mubarak that could be made, but that doesn't mean we can ignore Wikipedia's requirements for proper sourcing. I would be very happy if someone would collect appropriate sources and replace the deleted sections with properly cited commentary and criticism. Dragons flight (talk) 23:28, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Recent photo

There has been a dispute about which photo should be featured on the atricle, personally i believe we should always use the most recent photo that is available without copyright issues... so that wikipedians could see how the president currently looks like, not how he looked like a few years ago.

suggestions welcomed =)

§ Ezz zombie (talk) 11:39, 9 June 2010

This is unseemly. This is not a good faith contribution.

I located a more suitable image from among those in Commons. Then I ptomptly posted a note here at User talk:Ezz zombie. I wrote --

This image has been deleted from the infobox at Hosni Mubarak.

• The explicit name of this image suggests that you did not overlook the pertinent fact that the Israeli flag in the background.

As you can see for yourself, an image of President Mubarak with his nation's flag in the background has been substituted. This image better enhances the quality of the article. --Tenmei 21:10, 12 June 2010

Shortly thereafter, Ezz zombie reverted my edit here. The edit summary was disingenuous. Ezz zombie wrote -- "if you check out the discussion page you'll see it is agreed to always use the most recent photo."

No. Silence means nothing. This is the wrong venue for qui tacet consentire videtur. --Tenmei (talk) 01:56, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Assassination dispute

Wow. This talk page has sure seen some lively conversation. Well, that's the mark of a good Wikipedia article in the works.

Anyway, I wanted to note how I made some changes in the Assassination attempts section. It looks like there was previously a dispute about adding info from a BBC article on Egypt to the top part of this article. That BBC profile on Egypt is now cited in the section I edited. The section begins: According to the BBC, Mubarak has survived two assassination attempts. This statement is accurate according to the article it cites, which clearly says Mubarak averted six assassination attempts. I see that there is dispute regarding the factual accuracy of this claim, as a commenter above notes that this BBC article was written by the Washington correspondent of Egypt's state-owned Al-Ahram newspaper.

This six assassination attempts claim is understandably questionable. Be that as it may, this claim is accurately sourced. If anyone challenges this claim, I would think the appropriate party to take it up with would be the infamous BBC.

I noticed how the user Favonian changed the section from saying six to two this past December and in his edit notes said sources, please, pertaining to the reason for the edit. This didn't make sense to me given how, again, the BBC article cited explicitly mentions six assassination attempts. The section's other source (cited as pages 213-215 of a book called "Looming Towers", but a quick search revealed that the book is actually called The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11) is luckily available to view through Google Books. Take note that the Google Books link here refers to the 2007 version of this book, which numbers the pages differently. Still, it is possible to view the 2006 version cited in the article. The part of the book cited is the first two pages of the "Boy Spies" chapter. In fact, I'll change the citation in this article in order to reflect the page numbers on the newest version of this book (pgs 242-244).

Now, having read this section of The Looming Tower, I see that it mentions an assassination attempt on Mubarak in June 1995 while on his way in Ethopia to the meeting of The Organization of African Unity. From pages 244 and beyond, the book talks about the aftermath of this and details some very diabolical plots by Egyptian military and intelligence officials to get back at Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya and Egyptian Islamic Jihad for the attempt. However, the article here mentions that by 1999 Egypt saw 20,000 persons placed in detention related to the revolutionary Islamic organizations. Sadly, none of the sources cited in this section corroborate that information. And so, I'm prompted to put one of those citation needed tags next to that claim.

I did find an Encyclopædia Britannica article on Mubarak that explicitly mentions him being wounded by "a knife-wielding assailant", and so I added it as another somewhat more specific instance of an assassination attempt. I actually found this article through the Public Library Edition of Encyclopædia Britannica. The only difference between the two articles is that the full one has an extra paragraph. I am able to access this edition of Britannica through the Pikes Peak Library District, and so I'm sure a library near you has some form of Britannica for your free perusal.

If anyone has any questions about my changes, please let me know either through this post or my talk page. I look forward to continuing to improve this article. Enderandpeter (talk) 20:41, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite needed

The Hosni Mubarak page is rife with spelling errors, and contains mostly extremely polarized opinions about a person already controversial enough. If there is some modestly neutral and knowledgeable person interested and available, the page could use a top-to-bottom rewrite. Xanthian (talk) 10:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Assumed presidency

Hiya Administrators. Would one of you fix the sentence: (October 14, 1981- present) to simply October 14, 1981? GoodDay (talk) 00:06, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Editprotected request

Please see section on "Mubarak as a dictator". This block merely allowed the anonymous IP to save his last edit - the very thing that the request for protection was intended to block. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by citadelite (talk • contribs)

Already reverted to more neutral version by User:Tanthalas39 after protection. Any further changes should be as a result of consensus on the talk page. Thank you.--Aervanath (talk) 07:33, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Use of "dictator" in Wikipedia

Please see here for debate, thanks. Tazmaniacs 15:38, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

In no way is it inappropriate, I believe, to characterize Hosni Mubarak as a dictator. There is a majority consensus among Wikipedians that such descriptions are appropriate when legitimately applied, this, of course, being so when no serious scholar would dispute the contention -- and this consensus has been applied in legitimately identifying particular rulers as dictators (e.g. Pinochet). If this standard is clearly applied to people like Pinochet, it is only a matter of fairness that it be applicable to figures like Mubarak, who unlike Pinochet -- Gen. Pinochet actually stepped down after a referendum -- is a "99.9% dictator" who manipulates voting results and harshly cracks down on dissidents.

See, for example, the Wikipedia articles on Democracy and Human rights in Egypt, the Wikipedia article on Freedom House (containing world maps showing Egypt as "not free" and not an "electoral democracy"), or any number of publicly-available sources on the political atmosphere in Egypt one can locate through Google.

Stating the matter plainly is not a question of "subjective opinion". Setting the record straight is particularly relevant with regard to this article because not much information regarding the political atmosphere in Egypt is given in the article; to the contrary, a misleading characterization of the stituation in Egypt appears to be insinuated by a sub-heading titled "Democratization in 2005 elections", thereby plainly misleading somebody merely skimming the article into believing what is contrary to fact.

See also here for debate.

In accordance with everything outlined above, I am going to revert the current entry on Mubarak into the more informative version preceding the latest changes.

Feel free to discuss.

Thanks,

No I believe it's inappropriate. Not even Putin, the Chinese PM, or hell, even Kim Jong il are identified as a "dictator" in the first sentence of the article. While Mubarak is an autocrat, it's certainly beyond objectivity to mention that he's a dictator, in the first sentence of the article. The rest of the article speaks for itself. To which I might add: your "objectivity" speaks for itself, when you mention that he's "widely" viewed as a "traitor" in the first paragraph of the article. And of course, if Mubarak is a "dictator" as you mention, then perhaps Nasser should be "Satan". After all, if someone like Ibrahim Eissa were to have criticized Nasser like he criticizes Mubarak, he would have left this earthly life a long time ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Citadelite (talk • contribs) 17:47, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I did not put in anything about Mubarak being "widely seen" as a traitor. That was inserted by somebody else. If you would like to take up the issue of Putin, the Chinese PM, or Kim Jong Il described as dictators, feel free to do so on their own respective Wikipedia articles. As it stands, the most analogous case is that of Augusto Pinochet, who, like Mubarak, is described on Wikipedia as a "military officer" and "dictator".

Aside from insulting me for comments I had not even contributed and bringing in three entries elsewhere, you have not addressed one iota of what I had talked about. Please cease your reverts until you make a legitimate case -- and until you do so, I will most certainly continue to regard your unwarranted reverts as puerile vandalism.

209.183.32.50 (talk) 19:19, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

209.183.32.50 (talk) 20:27, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism? Did you even see your talk page? You have been warned of vandalism numerous times. Until you make a referenced claim from a reputable news organization, say the BBC, AP, AFP, etc. identifying Mubarak as PRIMARILY a "dictator" rather than the "President of Egypt", rather than analogizing from a wikipedia article on Pinochet, your edits will continue to be senseless.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Citadelite (talk • contribs) 21:42, 25 January 2009 (UTC) 

This is a shared IP address.

Again, instead of responding to my legitimate criticisms, you have answered in the manner of a personal attack. This is becoming farcical. See the Wikipedia article on Freedom House (containing world maps showing Egypt as "not free" and not an "electoral democracy"), or any number of publicly-available sources on the political atmosphere in Egypt one can locate through Google.

Here's also a link to Parade Magazine: The World's Worst Dictators:

http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2007/edition_02-11-2007/Dictators

Your position on this issue seems to imply that there is some legitimate disagreement on this issue. (Are you Egyptian?) Now, I'd appreciate it if you, yourself, could at least please answer this -- do you, yourself, consider Mubarak to be a dictator or not?

166.217.144.93 (talk) 00:09, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

P.S.: Here's the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/magazine/07wwln-lede-t.html

And here, surprise-surprise, is the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6045958.stm , where Mubarak's autocracatic reign is very well-detailed, and the epithet "burly military man" takes primacy over "president".

Here are 1,440 results from scholarly journals linking the search-items "Hosni Mubarak" and "dictator" (feel free to peruse the archives):

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=Mubarak+dictator&btnG=Search

I challenge you to provide even a handful of sources disputing the appellation.

Best,

209.183.32.50 (talk) 00:45, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Funny, because when I enter, say, "Bush" and "dictator" in Google Scholar, I get more than 27K results! I guess that means that Bush is a dictator! Your thought processes are infantile.

I did not say that Mubarak's regime is a democratic one. Far from it. However, he is first and foremost the President of Egypt. Not in a single source of yours, does it mention in its opening sentence the word "dictator". You are lucky this lock came at an opportune time, but come the 29th of January, and I'll fight this all the way. And also: get some cohones and register instead of disallowing others to see what is probably a very tarnished history of yours. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Citadelite (talk • contribs) 08:36, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Boy, what a shamelessly, shamelessly silly thing to say!

You know no less well than I do, that there's a very different kind of result produced when GoogleScholar returns search results for "Mubarak" and "dictator", they look very different from the ones returned for "Bush" and "dictator". Just take a look at a few of them.

Still can't come off the ad hominem train now, can you?

166.216.128.75 (talk) 16:49, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

No I can't tell the significance of those results in Google Scholar. Guess what: if I enter the words "wikipedia" and "sex" in Google, I get more than 25 mil results!

I'm still waiting for any source to mention that Mubarak is a "dictator" in its OPENING SENTENCE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Citadelite (talk • contribs) 17:49, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Why so picky -- right in the opening sentence, even if Mubarak is introduced in a subsequent sentence? And you only accept sources from the BBC and AP, right?

How about an article that introduces Mubarak as a dictator - a reasonable enough settlement, I presume?

Here's one:

The New York Sun: http://www.nysun.com/foreign/americas-new-plan-for-middle-east-peace/51137

and here's another:

The Diplmatic Courier: http://www.diplomaticourier.org/web_feature_171_Poland_on_the_Nile_Mahalla_Egypt_Food_Riots.html

I'm particularly supportive of the stylistic choice made by the Diplomatic Courier:

"Egypt’s dictator-president Hosni Mubarak, who has been in power since 1981, similarly uses subsidies to ward off civil discontent with similarly disastrous results for the national treasury. As of 2008, the Egyptian government subsidizes four foods: baladi bread, wheat flour, sugar, and cooking oil."

Let's just refer to him as dictator-president (would you prefer president-dictator) - and compromise by opting to split it down the middle?

As ever,

166.216.128.75 (talk) 18:12, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

No, there is no "compromise", simply because it's a false choice. If you refer to the Wikipedia article on the guidelines for the biographies of living people, it mentions the following: "Biographies of living people should be written responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone."

I can cite you a multitude of OPINION pieces written by columnists saying all sorts of things. However: what counts here is how reputable news organizations primarily refer to Mubarak during the regular reporting process. For every columnist you cite idenifying Mubarak as PRIMARILY a 'dictator', I can cite numerous more that refer to him PRIMARILY as the 'president of Egypt'/'Egyptian President', but I gather you already knew that.

But MOST IMPORTANTLY, here is how Reuters, AP, and AFP, the three largest and most prestigious wire-news organizations PRIMARILY refer to Mubarak:

Reuters: "In Washington, the White House said Obama had also spoken to Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and Jordan's King Abdullah and that the U.S. president would actively engage in peace efforts."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/usTopNews/idUKLI52680720090122

AP:"The French president's office says he and Egypt's president will co-chair an international summit in Cairo to discuss the Gaza crisis. Nicolas Sarkozy will lead Sunday's meeting in the Red Sea resort Sharm el-Sheik along with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hZh5Xm9KtxY7-jZWXwRFBWZmJmkAD95P2HR00

AFP: "CAIRO (AFP) — Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak called on Saturday for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire in the Gaza Strip, as Hamas vowed to fight on if its terms for a truce were not met."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jwBZLgqKbO5f9yuVIL1vFBIwTpuw

Referring to him as a "dictator" rather than the President of Egypt, which is the office he holds, in the OPENING SENTENCE of the article certainly contradicts Wiki's standard of a "neutral", "conservative" and "enyclopedic" tone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Citadelite (talk • contribs) 18:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

There was a similiar argument (months ago) at the Augusto Pinochet article. GoodDay (talk) 00:13, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I have moved this section to it's chronological order on this page. The convention on article talk pages is to put later sections under earlier ones. This makes it less confusing for other editors. Also, please sign your comments using four tildes after your comment, like so: ~~~~. This produces a signature such as mine:--Aervanath (talk) 07:33, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I dont see why is Everybody Whining about coining the term "Dictator" to Mubarak, dictator is not n insult, it is an adjective that describes a certain "type" of leader, and, we we see the Wikipedia topic "Dictator" you can clearly see (i'll copy and paste here):

Dictator From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A dictator is a ruler (e.g. absolutist or autocratic) who assumes sole and absolute power (sometimes but not always with military control) but without hereditary ascension such as an absolute monarch.[1] When other states call the head of state of a particular state a dictator, that state is called a dictatorship. The word originated as the title of a magistrate in ancient Rome appointed by the Senate to rule the republic in times of emergency (see Roman dictator and justitium).[2]

In modern usage, the term "dictator" is generally used to describe a leader who holds and/or abuses an extraordinary amount of personal power, especially the power to make laws without effective restraint by a legislative assembly[citation needed]. Dictatorships are often characterized by some of the following traits: suspension of elections and of civil liberties; proclamation of a state of emergency; rule by decree; repression of political opponents without abiding by rule of law procedures; these include single-party state, and cult of personality

(End of Pasted Material)

so, to when attempting to apply the "dictator" definition to Mubarak we find it fits perfectly as:

1- He Assumes sole and absolute power 2- He uses military (military police) control 3- He has the power to make laws without effective restraint from the people's assembly 4- he suspended elections the first 24 years of his rule (he's been in power for 29 years now) 5- All civil liberties are suspended according to "emergency law" (effective since 1981, 30 years and still Egypt is in state of "emergency") 6- rules by decree 7- opression of political opponents (such as ayman nour, and the muslim brotherhood party) 8- the country ruled by a single-party (the National "democratic" party) with representatives in the parliament of about 300 members (out of 400) that all came to place by biased elections ...etc

so, i think it's perfectly NEUTRAL to entitle him "dictator" as if we dont then we're not being neutral and not following the wikipedia policy... the "dictator" definition fits him perfectly, there's not ONE criteria of the definition that doesn not apply to him.

so, case closed, thank you very much =) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.235.176.37 (talk) 22:56, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Page protected

Page sysop protected due to edit warring. Tan | 39 01:27, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Arms

At least blazon of coat-of-arms should be included. --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 20:23, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Unnecessary opinion?

Is this sentence necessary: "Groups like the Muslim Brotherhood are at risk to coming into power in Egypt if the current government does not forge parliamental elections, confescate the group's main financiers' possessions, and/or detain group figureheads; virtually impossible without emergency law and judicial-system independence prevention." It is somewhat biased against the Muslim Brotherhood or possibly just written oddly as to obstruct the intended meaning. I suggest rewriting? (unsigned comment)

Prostate cancer

Who said he has prostate cancer? Anybody knows? --TheEgyptian 23:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

News, views and comments

I have kicked off a whole 'News, views and comments' section because it would be useful for Wikipedia readers to find links to the wealth of news and opinion on Mubarak's tenure that is available out there. This would also make this page more like other pages of Wikipedia which also contain links to external articles on the person or issue in question.

Please enrich this section with links to interesting articles, analyses, essays and OpEds on Mubarak's presidency.

This is not a bad idea, although a couple of your links ("Egypt 2008" and "open letter") may draw some criticism from other wiki members... When I have the time, I will add a few links myself. --(Mingus ah um 20:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC))

While I think this is a good idea, and I have no problems with any of the links in particular, I have noticed a pattern of linkspam. Please only include external links that are relevant to the article you're editing, and please only include one link per Wikipedia article. While a 'News, views and comments' section could be good, I have reverted the current version as linkspam. SWAdair 08:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Article organization

CFC. Section "Egypt under Mubarak" will be promoted at level 1, out of "Biography". It will host the following subSections (please comment under each subSection):--Connection 10:59, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

• Political Reforms (incl Administrative Reform)--Connection 10:59, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
• Economic Reforms--Connection 10:59, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
• Human Rights Record--Connection 10:59, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Fine with the political and the economic, but Human rights record should be added to a separate section called Criticism. --a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 16:11, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Your are judging already the account on HR Record will be Criticism. I see HR Record should be presented as a thread of facts, related to specific Policies (or lack thereof). Still, I am for the Criticism section. Good addition I didn't want to propose at the outset for lots of POV. It will be a large section (I anticipate lot of Wiki reactions and additions), covering other aspects beside HR. (HR will be a tiny one). --Connection 23:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Status update

We have a request from an anon to unprotect this page. Any reason to keep it protected? --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 11:01, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

got 0 response so I am unprotecting it. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 09:11, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. --Connection 10:53, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

"Mubarak's popularity grew over time and his role as a leader of the Arab World has been solidified in the 1980s and 1990s. "

Anybody familiar with the Arab world know that this is a joke. Mubarak is widely considered as a tyrant in Egypt.--equitor 19:22, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Few facts

Regarding Egyptians being persuaded by offers of economic aid or debt forgiveness to join the first Gulf War of 1991 :

• Gulf War#5 Diplomacy In the end, many nations were persuaded by Iraq's belligerence towards other Arab states, and offers of economic aid or debt forgiveness.

• Yes they were sold:

In 1991, under pressure from the International Monetary Fund, Egypt undertook painful economic reforms -- strongly opposed by powerful interest groups -- but the record of past commitments to reform does cast doubt on the present program. The massive dose of foreign aid during the Gulf War not only gives Egypt a reprieve, it also enables the leadership to avoid biting the bullet. Told you they were Sold!<- Link to paragraph

Source: The Economic Consequences of the Persian Gulf War: Accelerating OPEC's Demise

Book

Eliyahu Kanovsky

Format: Softcover, 116 Pages ISBN: 0-944029-17-5 Published: 1992

How much?

• The Economist

Article from the Economist:

Success story

The programme worked like a charm: a textbook case, says the IMF. In fact, luck was on Hosni Mubarak’s side—helped by his own quick judgment. When America was hunting for a military alliance to force Iraq out of Kuwait, Egypt’s president joined without hesitation. His reward, after the 1991 Gulf war, was that America, the Gulf states and Europe forgave Egypt around $20 billion-worth of debt, and rescheduled nearly as much again. [9]

• 48 During the Gulf War, an additional unaccounted for cost was the foreign aid and debt forgiveness by the United States for allies. This money, given in exchange for use of airbases or other cooperation, represents a direct cost to taxpayers. In the first Gulf War, this included$10 billion for Egypt, roughly $2 billion for Turkey, and $700 million for Jordan, according to the General Accounting Office.

source

• To dampen Arab protest, the U.S. made a special effort to bring Arab governments on board. This included the forgiveness of Egypt’s $14 billion debt to the World Bank

[10]

• US aid to Egypt:

[11] President Mubarak, whose country receives $2bn a year in US aid. 3 December, 2002 some newer reports claim up to $4.3 bn in ecenomic aid. (BBC)

• Six assassination attempts:

BBC: Mr Mubarak succeeded Anwar Sadat, who was assassinated in 1981. He is a great survivor, having escaped no fewer than six assassination attempts. BBC's exact paragraph

• Media accuracy and freedom:

According to Reporters without borders; Egyptian media ranks 143 out of 167 in freedom of the press, it's on the page (link).

• Corruption:

Transparency International (TI) is an international organisation addressing corruption, including, but not limited to, political corruption. The Index of perception of corruption rates Egypt as follows: index:3.4 and ranks 70/159 countries. --The Brain 23:11, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

HERE IS MY REPLY: I can only be impressed with the wide variety of sources you use, however: 1. the link you provide for "The Economic Consequences of the Persian Gulf War: Accelerating OPEC's Demise", is not a FACTUAL HISTORY report, but rather a piece of analysis, which is subject to debate and hence has no place in Wikipedia. 2. Yes, Egypt did make out a lot of money out of the Gulf War, however you forget that Egypt was BOUND BY TREATY to defend Kuwait: http://www.middleeastnews.com/arabLeagueDefenseTreaty.html 3. YOU STILL APPPLY YOUR NORMATIVE JUDGEMENT RATHER THAN ACTUAL FACT when mentioning that Mubarak was subjected to 6 assasination attempts due to "corruption and invalid elections". PLEASE TELL ME WHERE DO THE ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS FACTOR IN, and I'm sure we both agree they couldn't care less about democracy! 4.It seems to me like you think like I'm attacking your sources while the fact is I'M AGAINST INSERTING OPINIONS IN LIEU OF FACTS. I did not deny the 6 assasination attempts, the freedom of expression, and so on; you just use the info to suit your own political purposes. FUTHERMORE, the BBC article that you're so happy about is WRITTEN BY AN AL AHRAM REPORTER, ONE OF THE STATE MEDIA WHICH WE BOTH AGREE IS UNFREE. Hence, it seems to me like you're CONTRADICTING yourself: using information provided by the unfree media to highlight an aspect of Mubarak's life, which I think is not that critical to be placed in the first part of his biography.

no link I provided didn't say Egpt didn't make money: 1- There was a war and according to the Economist Egypt went in for the money: The programme worked like a charm: a textbook case, says the IMF. In fact, luck was on Hosni Mubarak’s side—helped by his own quick judgment. When America was hunting for a military alliance to force Iraq out of Kuwait, Egypt’s president joined without hesitation. His reward, after the 1991 Gulf war, was that America, the Gulf states and Europe forgave Egypt around $20 billion-worth of debt, and rescheduled nearly as much again. (read the whole article)

2- Book published on 92 is no good?

3-Me you and Reporters without borders agree that Egpt ranks 143 out of 167. Therfore unreliable and is fiction.

I never wrote a thing about Islam and Mubarak, does he feed or pay you to clear his name when it is apparent that he sold people (as mercenaries)and according to you turned around and said the treaty made me do it!!!!!!

4-Corruption: Transparency International (TI) is an international organisation addressing corruption, including, but not limited to, political corruption. The Index of perception of corruption rates Egypt as follows: index:3.4 and ranks 70/159 countries. (are they wrong or biased?)

5-wikipedia's own will tell you :*Gulf War#5 Diplomacy In the end, many nations were persuaded by Iraq's belligerence towards other Arab states, and offers of economic aid or debt forgiveness.

that's Washington Institute for Mid East Policy)

The massive dose of foreign aid during the Gulf War not only gives Egypt a reprieve, it also enables the leadership to avoid biting the bullet. might look for more sources, even though you do agree that yes Egypt made money. Sources differ on how much, lastly I'm quoting the BBC not Alahram's employee. Question, when you tell me don't quote that guy he's affraid and the media isn't free, do you you think that that type of governement is a dictatorship?

Say what: why don't you this time provide sources that contradict the 6 assasination attempts and descredit my sources . --The Brain 14:33, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

REPLY: I am sorry I am not making myself clear enough, but I am NOT saying that you're lying! Mubarak might have been subjected to 6 assissnation attempts in fact, however you have NO RIGHT whatsoever to mention that he was subjected to these attempts as a result of "corruption and invalid elections". Futhermore, I am a patriotic Egyptian college student and no one is paying me anything. Please stop these baseless convictions, as I might as well say that you're being paid by some foreign government to tarnish Mubarak's image. As for Islam and Mubarak, I never mentioned anything significant about that: I simply mentioned the FACT that Islamic extremists were INVOLVED in the assasination attempts. AND I still do maintain that the book published in 1992 is a piece of analysis subject to debate. I think your problem is that your obsessed with sources; but it's not about the sources; it's merely about sticking to the facts.

Tell you what: to resolve these differences, I'll grant you the following, given that you grant me something in turn: GRANT YOU: 1. mentioning that Egyptian media ranks very low in freedom, and mentioning something that official information about the president might be distorted, as a result of such low freedom. 2. since both you and I agree on the 6 assisnation attempts, you can mention that AS LONG AS you do NOT include the phrase "Due to opposition, allegations of corruption and criticism of his presidency and allegations of invalid elections..." since this is simply not FACTUAL , but rather your personal opinion, which you have every right to hold, however it's not the right place in Wikipedia to mention it. 3.State as a matter of fact that Egypt did recieve a lot of Economic aid as a result of its involvement in the Gulf War, as a result of Mubarak's decision. 4. Removing the phrase: "The massive dose of foreign aid during the Gulf War not only gives Egypt a reprieve, it also enables the leadership to avoid biting the bullet. With all due respect to the Washington Insitute, PLEASE DISTINGUISH ANALYSIS FROM FACTS to be placed in an encyclopedia article. Thanks!

Protected

Please use dispute resolution. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 17:47, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Assassination attempts

He is a great survivor, having escaped no fewer than six assassination attempts. BBC LEADERS: Mid paragraph.--The Brain 23:16, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

If it is only six then why does the Wiki entry state one hundred and six? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.112.75.239 (talk) 16:41, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Six assassination attempts

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/country_profiles/737642.stm#leaders BBC:

Mr Mubarak succeeded Anwar Sadat, who was assassinated in 1981. He is a great survivor, having escaped no fewer than six assassination attempts. People delete it! --The Brain 15:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

PEOPLE DELETE IT because it's not important enough to be placed in the first part of his biography. Plus, the alleged "six" assasination attempts that you provide the BBC link for, are at best, minor incidents that did not recieve media attention either in or outside Egypt. The main one was the Addis Ababa incident. If you want to include it, at least do it in a less prominent place of the biography.

So is the BBC lying about them being six attempts? And why would the BBC lie? And in response to your claim that they didn't recieve media attention: The BBC isn't media according to you then. Just in case you actually believe the Egyptian media, it ranks 143 out of 167 in freedom of the press according to Reporters without borders on Wikipidia and here's the link to their site.

the full report (143, near the bottom of the list) --The Brain 14:48, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I NEVER SAID THE BBC WAS LYING. You're the one whose inserting words into my mouth. I simply said that the six assasination attempts are NOT that important to be placed in the first part of his biography (even the BBC one places them in the middle of the page). Now, whether or not I believe the Egyptian press, that's another thing, but I would point your attention that the BBC article you provide the link to, is written by Khaled Dawoud, the Washington correspondent for Al Ahram (part of the state-owned media you claim is false).

Also, please don't say that he was exposed to six assasination attempts as a result of bogus elections and all that, simply because in Wikipedia, you have to stick to the FACTS, and what you're saying is a matter of opinion. How did you get away with a personal attack and a curse on an edit page.141.155.147.7 (talk) 05:52, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Al Monufiyah

Al Monufiyah shoud be Al Menoufiyah, I fixed the link Al Monufiyah. Donno how to fix it though from Al Monufiyah to Al Menoufiyah. --The Brain 21:47, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

actually it should probably be al-munifiyya, since its منوفيية in Arabic. Arabic transcription is a rather inexact science on Wikipedia, but I think in general its better to stick to modern standard vowel transcriptions except in the case of really famous names which already have a nonstandard transcription. jackbrown —Preceding comment was added at 07:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Double picture

There's two identical pictures; Someone should delete one.

While we are talking pictures, can somebody find one where he doesn't look like he is wearing a party hat?

Some suggestions

"no one ever runs against him for fear of violence."

-This seems like it might be changing. In the 2005 election Saad Eddin Ibrahim has announced that he will be running in opposition to Mubarak.

I also might add in something to the 'Egypt Under Mubarak' section about his declaration of a state of emergency that has lasted since Sadat's death.

Realative?

"Early Days Mubarak was born on May 4, 1928 in Kafr-El Meselha, Egypt. He is thought to be one of the brightest presidents in the world, realative to G.W. Bush that is. "

As much as I dislike Bush, could we just edit that out? .... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.47.220.198 (talk) 206.47.220.198 (UTC)

Kingdom of Egypt?...

I noticed that under the "Born" section under the president's image it says "Kingdom of Egypt". Egypt changed to republic in the ninteen fifties. Saying kingodm can be confusing to people. They may think the presidient was born in a different place. Gafary (talk) 12:27, 13 December 2007 (UTC)Ahmad

It doesn't matter. He was born in the Kingdom of Egypt. СЛУЖБА (talk) 09:29, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Current event

The page is blocked form editing and has only one short line on the popular uprising. Please someone that can do it, deblock a.s.a.p so relevant information can be edited because this makes Wikipedia look ridiculous and biased to the side of Mubarak. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stepright (talk • contribs) 23:14, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced sections

Aren't the two paragraphs "Egypt's return to the Arab League" and "Wars and the monetary gain from the Gulf War of 1991" misplaced. They are about Egypt and not really part of an article about Hosni Mubarak?

Illness

Can't make the edit myself, but could someone remove or fix the nonsensical opening line of this section? It looks fine until it concludes with a sudden nonsense reference to France. "...change was France." I believe. CatalystParadox (talk) 16:45, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Yep, that was odd. Sorted. - JeffJonez (talk) 18:55, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 May 2019

Like Ali Khameini's edit request, not necessarily an edit request but just a request to add Hosni Mubarak to a category (Failed assassination attempt survivors) Cinefan Cinefan (talk) 01:59, 19 May 2019 (UTC) Cinefan Cinefan (talk) 01:59, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia!​ — Newslinger talk 05:24, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 March 2019

For better historical contextualization, change line:

On 6 October 1973, the Egyptian Air Force launched a surprise attack on Israeli soldiers on the east bank of the Suez Canal. Egyptian pilots hit 90% of their targets, making Mubarak a national hero.

to:

On 6 October 1973, at the breakout of the Yom Kippur War, the Egyptian Air Force launched a surprise attack on Israeli soldiers on the east bank of the Suez Canal. Egyptian pilots hit 90% of their targets, making Mubarak a national hero. FinanceOnWikipedia (talk) 12:43, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done – Ammarpad (talk) 16:03, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 February 2020

Hosni Mubarak died today. February 25, 2020 according to egyptian newspaper Youm7 Macck1 (talk) 10:59, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

 Already done — RAVENPVFF · talk · 11:55, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Hosni's dead

Today, Hosni's dead. WPUser6 (talk) 10:58, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 February 2020

Hosny Mubarak the president of Egypt for 30 years died today Michael Zakaria10 (talk) 10:53, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

The death of former President Hosni Mubarak(25/2/2020), Egypt Michael Zakaria10 (talk) 10:55, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

 Already done — RAVENPVFF · talk · 11:55, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 February 2020

Hosny Mubarak the president of Egypt for 30 years died today. The 4th former president died on 25th February 2020 Michael Zakaria10 (talk) 11:00, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

 Already done — RAVENPVFF · talk · 11:55, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Is it only on 30/500 protection because he died

Or is it because of something else like the Trump article Gale5050 (talk) 21:40, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

User:Gale5050 Wikipedia policy is that all articles related to the Arab-Israeli conflict are extended confirmed Benica11 (talk) 01:17, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Date of death repetition

Suggested:

• Remove the date of death at the end of the lead section. It already appears at the top.
• Move burial details to the "Personal life" section.

73.71.251.64 (talk) 17:45, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 March 2020

He died of renal failure 176.203.87.55 (talk) 08:34, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. CptViraj (📧) 09:46, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

petition to add the charges, convictions and imprisonment

Mubarak was tried and acquitted in a second trial of not avoiding the death of about 900 protesters and was in Tora's prison from 2011 to 2013 (the same that housed Momammed Morsi) and then confined in a military hospital until 2017,I suggest adding details certain criminal details and the presumption of innocence above all--Republicadobrasil (talk) 17:59, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 November 2020

Awards section:

Syria Military Honor Medal links to a Prussia medal not a Syrian one! 222.108.4.167 (talk) 02:11, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:31, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 November 2020

Sources 149 and 150 are switched. The order of the seraphim refs to Spanish order and vice versa. Gualtherus (talk) 01:32, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Please make your request in X/Y form. Also ref 149 seems to be in Spanish and is labeled as such. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 16:25, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

The lead

The lead of this article is abysmal, maybe the worst lead I've ever read on WP. This guy was president of Egypt for 30 years, yet there is only a single sentence on his presidency, and all it says is how long he served. GA-RT-22 (talk) 16:48, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

wrong references for some honours

You shoud switch the references cited for spanish honour and swedish honour since their are inverted.

By the way, i ask if it the case to remove all awards without references and park them in the discussion page unitil someone founds a proper reference and puts them back to ns0.

--FabioVi (talk) 13:35, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

first Arab leader to be tried in his own country

Summary states: "These trials began on 3 August 2011,[12] making him the first Arab leader to be tried in his own country." Yet this is not true. Saddam Hussein's trial in Iraq for crimes against humanity was in 2005. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Saddam_Hussein

You’re right. I clarified it and added another ref. Thepharoah17 (talk) 07:02, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 July 2022

Change cemery to cemetery Hughwicket (talk) 11:07, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:16, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 July 2022

Add Mohamed Morsi to the successor section of the infobox under Mohamed Hussein Tantawi in the same way that is done in Morsi's infobox. This would make it easier for readers to find the non-interim successor of Mubarak. DylanClarkWebb (talk) 06:16, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done SWinxy (talk) 04:45, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Mubark behind the bars.JPG

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:54, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Lede Image

Which of the following images should serve as the lede image for Hosni Mubarak?

A (Current)

B

@Greenshed, Favonian, GoodDay, Rjensen, Nableezy, Thepharoah17, Therequiembellishere, and GreatLeader1945: Emiya1980 (talk) 23:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Probably current, after somebody dies we typically use a photo from when they were in their prime so to speak. nableezy - 00:09, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree with nableezy. Rjensen (talk) 01:30, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

I'd go with the B version. GoodDay (talk) 22:41, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

B. While I see the reasoning behind wanting a good-quality image of Mubarak in his prime, the current image looks like a touched-up representation of him rather than a normal photograph which captures him as he actually appeared. Seeing as how B is a good-quality photo which shows him as he actually appeared while still in power (albeit during the final years of said period), I think it is the better choice.Emiya1980 (talk) 20:35, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

The current one ("A") per @Nableezy. GreatLeader1945 ^TALK 14:48, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

The book "Revolution 2.0: The Power of the People is Greater Than the People In Power" by Wael Ghonim discusses the final days of Mubarak's regime before he was overthrown by Mohammad Morsi. Mohamed Bouazizi of Sidi Bouazid, Tunisia was humiliated when the police refused to investigate the forcible confiscation of his vegetable cart. He attempted to kill himself on December 17, 2010 and died on January 4, 2011. His death brought about the fall of the Tunisian dictatorship, which in turn started the Arab Spring Revolution in Egypt. Mubarak was forced from power in 2011 and was later imprisoned for human rights abuses most notably for imprisoning dissidents. (Ghonim pp. 134-141) 2603:6000:C305:78DF:3A8:5AA2:EFEF:CC1F (talk) 20:45, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Rfc for lede image for Hosni Mubarak

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

There is a consensus to keep the current image. (non-admin closure) —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 16:48, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

---

Which of the following images should serve as the lede image for Hosni Mubarak?

• 
  A (Current Image)
• 
  B
• 
  C
• 
  D

Emiya1980 (talk) 18:35, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

• A Yet another infobox image RFC on a biography and another example where the alternative is not a real improvement. The status quo is perfectly fine and that appeared to be okay in the discussion prior to this RFC. I'm not sure what's driving all these infobox image RFCs, but many of them are completely unnecessary. Nemov (talk) 20:42, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

  Updated - new additions are even worse and changing the RFC options after 4 days is bizarre and further clouds the discussion. Nemov (talk) 15:23, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

• A, as the subject is deceased. We normally use official state portraits for sitting officials, but Mubarak passed in 2020 and had not been in office since 2011. SWinxy (talk) 01:54, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

• A is fine. i don't think either image is great: A is airbrushed, but B has a cluttered background, he's not in his prime, and there are plenty of other pictures in the article showing him as he actually appeared

so i don't see any real benefit of changing it to image B. Rainsage (talk) 19:31, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

• A is a good image. I don't see a reason to change it. Pickalittletalkalittle (talk) 20:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

• A, minor re-touching is not a reason for not using a photo. If he looked completely different, the case should be made explicitly. Alaexis_¿question? 09:27, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

• B I prefer. It's more recent, he's looking into camera, it looks more realistic as he's older. But it looks like the consensus is for A, Tom B (talk) 22:34, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
• B per Tom B. More recent and looking into the camera. Some people voting A are status quo warriors and are only voting because "there is no reason to change it", which isn't a particularly helpful reason. C F A 💬 21:59, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

• B per CFA and Tom B

Lordseriouspig 02:54, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

• B Emiya1980 (talk) 05:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
• please read and internalize WP:AGF and WP:NPA. nableezy - 16:00, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Comment: Added 2 new images in light of Rainsage's comments on current selection.Emiya1980 (talk) 03:29, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

@Neveselbert, Thepharoah17, Greenshed, Johnkatz1972, Hkn156347, Therequiembellishere, Bart Versieck, The Brain, Favonian, Egeymi, GoodDay, Tbhotch, Baffle gab1978, Tpbradbury, EyEsReaDeR7, A.S. Brown, and Bigweeboy: In light of the significant extent of your past contributions to the Hosni Mubarak page, you are invited to comment on the current Rfc regarding the article's lede image. Should you be inclined to do so, please share your thoughts on this thread. Thank you.Emiya1980 (talk) 21:05, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

@Rjensen and Nableezy: See above.Emiya1980 (talk) 21:11, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

I haven't edited this page in 11 years.... Therequiembellishere (talk) 21:20, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 21:51, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

that's recent, it's been 13 years for me, but i still appear to be one of the 'top 10' editors! Tom B (talk) 22:30, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

it seems like the consensus is to stick with the current image. Rainsage (talk) 21:23, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

• A He's dead, so recency of image is irrelevant. The resolutions of A and B are about equivalent (though I expect a higher resolution version to exist), but A is better quality and is an official portrait. I think the B arguments above are quite lacking. Curbon7 (talk) 22:53, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
• A mostly per Nemov and Ransage. Draken Bowser (talk) 14:36, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
• A per my above comment that we typically use an image from somebody's "prime" after they have passed, as opposed to the most current one when living. Like for example Elizabeth II's portrait was changed after she died from this to this. nableezy - 15:59, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.