Talk:Jean-Michel Jarre/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Much too long

This article is much, much too long.12.214.62.215 (talk) 01:35, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

--You didn't know? He's nearly as important as Ceasar. Just look at the length!

Oxygen most important electronic album ever?

Hardly, I can't see any alternate reality where this is the case, it simply came out to late to be declared this, would "...one of the most..." fix this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.36.38 (talk) 07:18, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I would agree with the above comment. I think the commenters suggestion to use the phrase "one of the most" is the way to fix this.

In the USA and the UK, the German band Kraftwerk and their Autobahn album was at least as influential as anything Jarre was doing at that time. Perhaps the strongest argument is that Autobahn was released to popular acclaim in (1974), a full 2 years prior to the release of Oxygène (released in 1976). In fact Jarre didn't even enter into my consciousness until Zoolook while Kraftwerk albums were being played at college campuses across the country for at least a decade prior to that. When judging whether something is "influential" or "important" I would suggest that notions of taste must be left behind. The main aspects that should be analyzed are an artist's popularity with the masses and his popularity with other artists. It is probably true that due to traditional post-war cultural bonds between Germany, the UK, and the USA (in large part due to the huge population of armed forces we had there) -- also think of what country "made" the Beatles initially so popular -- that Germany has in general had a greater influence on our popular music tastes relative to France. This is not all due to any love-fest between us and Germany -- the French shoot themselves in the foot by going out of their way to inhibit the English language and everything that goes along with it. In such a climate, a French artist would be at a natural disadvantage. While German audiences famously went mad over Jazz and later, Rock, the French have done their best to "preserve French culture." --Frumiousfalafel (talk) 18:08, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

• And of course Wendy Carlos' The Well-Tempered Synthesizer and soundtrack for A Clockwork Orange (film). Of course, Bill Bailey says that "Jean-Michel Jarre is a fraud" ;-) Guy (Help!) 10:27, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Damn you really dont know shit about europe in general, but france and germany. german audiences went mad over Jazz ?? hahaha funny guy. Paris was the jazz hub for decades, when german didn't even knew what was it about since 15 years of nazism were forbidding it. Stop denying anything that is not from your anglo saxon civilization. JMJ is one of the biggest pioneer and influence on modern music, just like Ravel, Debussy, and Satie changed the face of the music before them. Of course Kraftwerk is huge, maybe bigger, who cares ? There many of them, Moroder, etc

Concerts in Spain in 2008

There are 3 concerts in Spain. [1]

• 21 April Gran Teatre del Liceu (Barcelona)
• 22 April Auditorio del Campo de las Naciones (Madrid)
• 23 April Auditorio Miguel Delibes (Valladolid)

--212.183.255.180 (talk) 02:12, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Reverted edits

Two days ago I changed the advert of the Oxygene Tour from "Luxembourg, Rockhal" by adding "Esch/Alzette", as the Rockhal is NOT in the City of Luxembourg but close to the french border in the City of Esch. Someone changed that back. This might mislead people who plan to visit Luxembourg in order to see Jarre live. 195.46.247.112 (talk) 16:49, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Article too long

I feel this article is too long, and includes lots of details about concerts, which could be better placed on the concert page and not in the main article. Equinoxe 20:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

What a mess

I'm going to start tidying this article up, starting mostly with deleting the unreliable sources and unreferenced information. I would also suggest that the article be reclassified as Start-class, but will leave such a decision to members of the related Wikiprojects. Parrot of Doom (talk) 22:19, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

A couple of months back I made a correction about his half-sister Stéphanie Jarre; the previous entry had erroneously listed HER as a him. I put TWO links for citations proving gender and relationship; one, another wiki site, and one at IMDB.

Wiki citation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dany_Saval

Dany Saval retired from the movie and entertainment business in the late 1980's, she has a daughter named Stephanie Jarre (daughter of Maurice Jarre, her first husband), and currently resides in Paris with her second husband, Michel Drucker.

IMDB citation http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1729979/

Stéphanie Jarre is listed as "Stepdaughter of Michel Drucker." Also credits her as set designer and film production designer

Also http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1729979/bio

Half-sister of Jean-Michel Jarre. Stepdaughter of Michel Drucker. Daughter of Maurice Jarre and Dany Saval.

Jean-Michel's parents are Maurice Jarre and Francette Jarre née Pejot. Jean-Michel is the oldest.

Stéphanie's parents are Maurice Jarre and Dany Saval. She is the next oldest.

Kevin's parents are Maurice Jarre and Laura Devon; Kevin is the youngest of the three.

So while you are tidying up, please restore the removed citations regarding Stéphanie. DTavona 20 March 2009

Neither Wikipedia or IMDB is a reliable source. Find something that satisfies wp:reliable and there won't be a problem. Parrot of Doom (talk) 19:12, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

No mention of use of Oxygene in Gallipoli the movie?

I would have thought the use of Oxygene 2 in the Australian movie "Gallipoli" would have rated a mention. This 1981 movie, about two soldiers (Mel Gibson and Mark Lee) at this battlefield in Turkey in WWI, was a big hit in Australia and many other countries. Jarre's music, set to Mark Lee's running in the Australian desert, is extremely evocative and helped make the movie the hit it was. It also probably helped popularise Jarre's music with the masses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallipoli_(1981_film) 58.173.3.152 (talk) 10:28, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I would think that would better be placed in the article for the album itself. Parrot of Doom (talk) 20:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

unreliable or missing sources

For the sake of simplicity, rather than using hidden text I'll place here anything that is sourced from websites that do not appear to meet wp:reliable. Most notably is the Tepazz, a device about which I have been unable to find any information other than what is in this article.

At least this way I can continue to search for the same information, but from more reliable sources. Editing this article is going to be a pain, there are few official sources to rely on.

• Changing piano teachers several times, it was not until he found a strange trumpet or violin instrument in a local flea market that his interest in music matured. His grandfather André Jarre was one of the inventors of the first audio mixing consoles used by Radio Lyon, and he was also involved, after World War II, with one of the first portable phonographs (the Tepazz), which he gave to his grandson as a present.

• at the same time studying for a degree in law and economic science. He eventually abandoned classical studies, turning instead to modern music theory.

• (la cage) A commercial failure likely due to its experimental or futuristic sound, only 117 singles were sold, and Pathé Marconi destroyed the remaining stock.

• (appears to be a dupe of his wiki page) When Jarre secured a recording contract with Polydor, thanks to Michael Hoppé Parrot of Doom (talk) 12:30, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

• (equinoxe) Much of this was achieved using custom equipment developed by his collaborator Michel Geiss. Parrot of Doom (talk) 18:38, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

• (deadlink so have replaced with cite req) During early 1991 Jarre started promotion for a concert to take place at the site of the Pyramids of Teotihuacan, Mexico during the great solar eclipse of 11 July 1991. The project stalled, with some sources citing problems with sponsors and local authorities as the reasons that halted the project.

• (session 2000) It is also rumoured to have been something of a 'quick and dirty' contractual obligation album for Jarre to end his contractual terms with Francis Dreyfus.

• (teo and tea) Jarre has stated that this album comes after a dark period in his private and professional life.

• (imdb unreliable, replaced with cite req) In 2007, Jarre arranged the soundtrack for a film directed by Volker Schlöndorff, using old material. The film is named Strajk - Die Heldin von Danzig; its international English title is Strike .

• (probably not relevant so cut entirely) An Israeli Internet Paper confirmed that a previously planned Large Outdoor Concert to take place this Summer in Jerusalem to celebrate the 60th Anniversary of Israel has now been officially cancelled.

• (replaced with cite req) Jarre was married to Flore Guillard from 20 January 1975–1977. Parrot of Doom (talk) 11:08, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Parrot of Doom (talk) 11:05, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I have a feeling that this is original research, or copied from an unknown review:

• "However, to fans reminiscing for the subtle tonal quality and phased sounds of Jarre's early work, 1997 would not be a disappointing year. Oxygène 7–13 was released to reveal that a coherent sonic story over the course of an album was something that Jarre could still achieve in the sequel-of-sorts to his 1976 landmark release. This album brought back many original instruments: the VCS 3 synthesizer, Eminent 310U, Mellotron and theremin among others. One can hear inspiration from "Oxygène (Part IV)" and "Equinoxe (Part II)" in the two-movement piece "Oxygène 7", while many of the other, more techno-based tracks on the album suggest a combination of Jarre's inspiration from both the Oxygène and Chronologie periods. Jarre once again toured Europe to support the album, this time focusing on smaller, indoor venues with a stripped down version of his large outdoor extravaganzas. During the course of the 1997 tour Jarre visited several countries he had never played before." Parrot of Doom (talk) 13:53, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

"During 2006, it was announced that Jarre was to produce an experimental TV series titled Mort-Mouvance, directed by Ellibert Mozart Fuzzkhan, who also produced a fake website of AeroProd, the company which produces Jarre's projects. The TV series and web sites turned out to be a hoax, and Jarre is pressing legal charges against the owners of those sites." Parrot of Doom (talk) 16:36, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

"In 2007, Jarre arranged the soundtrack for a film directed by Volker Schlöndorff, using old material. The film is named Strajk — Die Heldin von Danzig; its international English title is Strike." Parrot of Doom (talk) 17:41, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

- WRT The Dustbins "played the hits of both The Shadows and The Spotnicks", "the soundtrack for which features two of their songs. A single was released, but only ten copies were made." Parrot of Doom (talk) 15:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

- Paris Opera - "Jarre was the youngest composer to see his music performed there, and it was also the first time that the venue had hosted electronic music. He was forced to paint his speakers gold to match the décor of the building. He performed with the Ballet de l'Opéra National de Paris (Paris Opera Ballet) " - unsourced. Parrot of Doom (talk) 19:16, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I've found this extremely difficult (ie almost impossible) to find reliable online sources for. Perhaps a biography has it? The Remilleux biog does not.

"Jarre added a modified Farfisa organ and an ARP 2600 to his collection. He released several singles under aliases: "1906 — Cartolina/Helza", "Jamie Jefferson — Black Bird/ Pop Corn" (original version by Gershon Kingsley). One of his first successes, the song, "Zig Zag Dance", was released in numerous guises, under various aliases, and differing slightly each time." Parrot of Doom (talk) 19:44, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

early career "He collaborated with artists such as Dominique Webb, Samuel Hobo, Bill and Buster, Blue Vamp, and the group Triangle. " Parrot of Doom (talk) 20:37, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

"In 1974 he met Michel Geiss, an electronics wizard and musician. A friendship was struck between them that has lasted ever since." - I know this is very likely true, but I cannot find a source anywhere for this. Parrot of Doom (talk) 22:27, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

from Rendez-vous, unsourced - "Jarre recorded the album Rendez-Vous after being inspired by the sounds of the Elka synthesizer, which he employed on the record liberally. It also features his first heavy use of the Moog synthesizer on a studio album." Parrot of Doom (talk) 16:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

• still on "Rendez-Vous", it is said "heavy use of the Elka Synthex, notably so on "Third Rendezvous", a track Jarre often performs using a Laser harp". Yes, Jarre used the Synthex for about 80% of the sounds of this album, but the "Laser Harp" sound on Rendez-Vous part 3 is from the Roland JX-8P. The "Laser Harp" sound is slightly different from the Elka Synthex (preset : RingMod). Compare the 2 sounds ! On "Rendez-vous 2", it's the Synhex. On "Rendez-vous 3", it's the JX-8P. Both synths have a very different and easily recognizable grain. Please fix that in the article ! Ask Francis Rimbert, Michel Geiss, or Jarre himself and you'll see your error. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.172.255.43 (talk) 13:59, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
  • • Third Rendezvous is, however, more than just the laser harp. Parrot of Doom 19:33, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

from Chronologie "He enlisted several artists, including Praga Khan, to remix tracks for the B-sides of the singles." Parrot of Doom (talk) 16:25, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

from the AERO concert in Denmark, probably WP:OR "This had included several fellow musicians on keyboard, live drums, live percussion, live bass guitar and live lead guitar. The different styles employed by drummers Joe Hammer, Chris Deschamps, Laurent Fauchex and Gary Wallis over the years, made every concert and performance a unique one. The different eras in Jarre’s live performances can be marked by the band of musicians he had on stage. The combination of Laurent Fauchex on drums, Dominic Mahut on percussion, Guy Delacroix on bass guitar and Patrick Rondat on lead guitar during the 1993–1995 live period is one such era-defining complement in Jarre’s live performances." Parrot of Doom (talk) 17:34, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

same section "His concerts from 2002 onwards feature only him and a few others with guest appearances or the complement of an orchestra or choir on certain tracks. Some would argue that the increasing absence of live drums, percussion and bass has diminished the live feel of the concerts. Anyone watching the opening track from the Aero concert for example will see Jarre messing with various sound effects and Francis Rimbert hitting a cymbal, with no one apparently actually playing the tune. This is one of many occasions where fans have noted that the music appeared to be mimed on keyboard by Jarre for at least some tracks." - I want to reinclude this information, so will try and reintegrate it into the article's structure. Parrot of Doom (talk) 17:41, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

early career "With help from Michael Hoppé Jarre secured a recording contract with Polydor." - Tried and failed to find a source for this (although Jarre was obviously with Polydor) Parrot of Doom (talk) 20:17, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

music for supermarkets - "Jarre suggested that, as each artwork would be auctioned after the exhibition, so too should the music." Parrot of Doom (talk) 20:23, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Jean Michel Jarre/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Starting review.Pyrotec (talk) 21:02, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Initial comments

This article appears to be well-referenced and of wide-ranging scope. It is possibly GA-material, but that will need to be determined by detailed review.Pyrotec (talk) 21:14, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

And, of course, that flagged {{citation needed}} needs addressing.Pyrotec (talk) 21:19, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Further comments

Whilst I think that this article is of GA-standard, there are at least one impediment to awarding GA-status.

• Personal life -

• This section is discussing a living person; yet there is a {{citation needed}} flag against the statement "Jarre was married to Flore Guillard from 20 January 1975–1977.[citation needed]"

I know he was married to her, its the dates I can't confirm.

I've had to remove it. The article does mention he was married and divorced before Rampling, but I cannot find a reference anywhere for Flore Guillard - not even the biog I have here. Parrot of Doom (talk) 19:55, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

• Early life, influences, and education -

• I tried to verify the statement "Jarre was born in Lyon on 24 August 1948, the son of composer Maurice Jarre, and French Resistance member and concentration camp survivor France Jarre (nee Pejot).[2][3]". Reference 2 does not seem to verify the statement that France Jarre (nee Pejot) was a "French Resistance member and concentration camp survivor", so it implies that this comes from reference 3 - "(DVD) Making the Steamroller Fly, Image Entertainment, 2003-11-04". I'm trying to work out what this is. From google Making the Steamroller Fly is a movie. So does the statement come from a movie that has been released on DVD, the sleave notes to the DVD? I'm treating this as non-verifiable, at present.

Steamroller is viewable on YouTube - its a documentary of Jarre's life, unfortunately the only way to verify it is to watch the film. I'm uncertain of Wikipedia's view with regard to linking copyrighted material, so I left it alone (although its actually a very interesting documentary, even for non-aficionados). Parrot of Doom (talk) 19:09, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

OK so you are using the documentary as the referenced. I'm not sure about the Copyright status of the YouTube version. I suggest that it is not used as a citation; but it could appear in External links, if you choose. I will watch it, probably next weekend.Pyrotec (talk) 11:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Article's WP:GAN is being put On Hold.Pyrotec (talk) 16:16, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

With respect to whether Jarre's father was either in a concentration camp or in the French Resistance, it should be noted that after WWII with respect to the latter, it was extremely common to makes false claims of membership in the French Resistance. This especially held true for politicians and people with a public face (for whatever reason). This "inflation" is well known among historians. Due to this, I would exercise extreme caution regarding any claims of membership in the French Resistance. Unfortunately, I have no information whatsoever regarding the specifics of whether Mr. Jarre was, or was not a member. --Frumiousfalafel (talk) 18:34, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Review summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

An interesting, wide-ranging article.

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Congratulations on the quality of the article. I'm awarding GA-status.Pyrotec (talk) 11:39, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Quotation

As per this diff the formatting of this template makes the article look very messy on my monitor (1920x1250). Does anyone else agree, and mind if I change it back? Parrot of Doom (talk) 18:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't like it as it is now on my 1280x1024 resolution. Could you post screenshot how it looks on your monitor?--RockyMM (talk) 10:46, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Its just a mess of huge long horizontal boxes, images, and soundfiles. This formatting renders teh article almost unreadable, it was better as it was before. Parrot of Doom (talk) 11:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Équinoxe or Equinoxe?

I ask because even JMJ's website uses the latter. So which is it? Parrot of Doom 12:35, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

---

Normally in french you are not supposed to put an accent on "majuscules". But it is now slightly more accepted so it is possible to find writed with. the most correct form still is "Equinoxe", or "équinoxe" if that is in the middle of a sentence (I don't know if the Academie française considers a Album name as a propoer name.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.224.59.166 (talk) 14:07, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Discrepancy

Near the top of this page, the album Oxygene is listed as having sold 12 million copies; on the page for that album, the number is 15 million. Which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.162.151.134 (talk) 00:43, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Jean Michel Jarre/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

I think the article is not or is no longer a good article because important parts are missing. In particular, there is nothing about his influences and style of music. Also I think the discography section shouldn't simply contain a link to the main article but should summarize its contents, perhaps by listing his most important albums. Laurent (talk) 15:49, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

• Comments. I think that this reassessment is both hasty and misguided. The influences on Jarre are covered adequately, particularly the influence of Pierre Schaeffer. His style of music also seems to be adequately covered to me, even with samples. I agree with you that the discography section should be more than just a link to the main article though, but that's easily fixed. Why not fix it yourself? My understanding of the GA criteria is that what's required is coverage of the major topics rather than comprehensiveness. Is your understanding different? William Leadford (talk) 16:37, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

• Comment While the article could stand improvement I don't think its correct to state that it contains no mention of his influences or style of music. As for the discography section, why not do it yourself? Parrot of Doom 17:31, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

• Comment I agree, those things WikiLaurent cites can be easily "fixed", in particular the Discografy. As for the references, I don't see that like a valid argument for saying the article is not good. Equinoxe

• Reply Thanks for your replies, when I came on the article I was looking for a section about his style of music and influences and couldn't see anything. On Wikipedia, on articles about musicians, it's common to have a section about these two topics. I agree it's partly covered in the "Early life, influences and education" section, but I missed it because I wasn't really interested in his life, but rather in his work. In general, I wonder if the article plan could be improved? There are six sections about this career - perhaps they could all be be grouped under one "Career" main section? Also perhaps we could split "Early life, influences, and education" into "Early life" and "Influences"? How about it? Laurent (talk) 05:52, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

• Comment Being an artist with a long career, just a section about it could be too long, that's why it's splitted in several sections (which currently is based on discography and decades, and before it was based on record companies). Regarding the influences, the main influences ocurred during his early life (Pierre Schaeffer, the jazz scene @ Paris and Lyon, and so), so I think it'd be better to place them on the current "early life, influences, etc." section. Equinoxe 15:57, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

What's the status of this reassessment? Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 19:07, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

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"Pays tribute to his legacy"??

Not sure how the quote about his dad being absent from his life (in the personal life section at the end) equals "paying tribute to his legacy" ?? Orlando098 (talk) 02:21, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Laser harp in Helsinki

It is clearly visible from the recoding that Jarre once cut briefly wrong laser during the consert, yet the tone did not change. So my guess is that that he was not playing the laser harp, but it was playback, so technically he was not playing the instrument, if it was an actual instrument. I did not incorporate this into the article, since it is not relevant and falls under original research, just wanted to say it. Also it is possible that it did not work as straigt forward as I assumed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.101.4.121 (talk) 13:19, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Tetsuya

Just moving this out of the article and putting it here for safe keeping. I don't think it's that notable. Parrot of Doom 08:58, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

On 1 January 2001 Jarre and [[Tetsuya Komuro|Tetsuya "TK" Komuro]] performed exclusive new material in [[Okinawa]]. ''[[Rendez-vous in Space]]'' was a tribute to the science-fiction author [[Arthur C. Clarke]], a close friend of Jarre’s. Jarre used recordings of Clarke (filmed before the concert) to introduce each piece of music. The opening sequence of the concert was based on the theme from the film [[2001: A Space Odyssey (film)|2001: A Space Odyssey]].<ref>{{Citation | title = Okinawa – Rendez-Vous In Space – 2001 | url = http://www.jeanmicheljarre.com/live-o-graphy/okinawa-rendez-vous-in-space-2001 | publisher = jeanmicheljarre.com | accessdate = 2009-06-22}}</ref> Later that year, Jarre gave a charity concert for the [[Elpida Foundation]] at the [[Acropolis, Athens|Acropolis]] in Athens, Greece.<ref>{{Citation | last = Perrone | first = Pierre | title = How to play a harp in heaven | url = http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2001/jun/21/artsfeatures4 | publisher = guardian.co.uk | date = 2001-06-21 | accessdate = 2009-06-20}}</ref>

Communist China

This article has been around long enough to acquire some references, so the claim that he was the first western artist to go to communist China should be easily checked. Lacking a reference, the claim must be removed. K5okc (talk) 17:18, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

There's no explicit requirement to cite statements in a lead which summarises cited statements in the main body of the article. Parrot of Doom 18:10, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

The lead is terribly long (travels for miles), and not really a lead anymore. K5okc (talk) 18:22, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

From his official website: "... Jarre, as the first Western musician invited officially, performed in early post-Mao China..." (emphasis mine) http://www.jeanmicheljarre.com/live-o-graphy/concerts-in-china-1981 ~E 74.60.29.141 (talk) 20:33, 21 September 2012 (UTC)