Talk:Jesús Franco filmography

alternate titles

I don't think "Golden Horn" (1966) was ever shown anywhere. That was an English-dubbed international print that was created for English-speaking countries, but from what I understand, it was never shown anywhere and is now a lost film. So I don't think that film even exists in English any more. I don't have the reference book here though to check, but I think the spanish title "Residencia para espias" is how the film is better known.49Bottles (talk) 19:46, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Red Lips: Sadisterotica (1967) was later released in English as Two Undercover Angels on dvd. But I think the English dvd titlle is little known. "Sadisterotica" is spelled as one word.49Bottles (talk) 19:52, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Lucky the Intrepido was released in English as Lucky the Inscrutable. Marquis de Sade's Justine should be Marquis de Sade: Justine with a colon (no apostrophe 's). 49Bottles (talk) 20:16, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

In Curti and Cesari's book, the film was titled "El caso de las dos bellezas, aka Sadist Erotica, 1967) (p 59) while Thrower's book calls it Sadisterotica, where he refers to it as "its famous English-language title". (2015, p138).

You are correct that it has been released on home video as Two Undercover Angels here by Vinegar Syndrome and here, which references a Anchor Bay release in 1999 and later again by Blue Underground as Two Undercover Angels. I'm leaning towards Two Undercover Angels. I'll take a look at the others shortly. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:21, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't have the reference book here, but I believe that film was shown in the US in drive-ins as Red Lips Sadisterotica, on a double bill with Kiss Me Monster. If that is true, then that's the first English title because that was way back in the 70s, and the prints were dubbed in English. This is a case where both of those titles should be listed, because the Angels title was only a relatively recent change.49Bottles (talk) 22:17, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Most films aren't going to be casually referred to as two different items as it will sound like we are talking about two different films. If you have a source for this information, please provide it. Andrzejbanas (talk) 22:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

As for Residencia para espias, Curti and Cesari refers to the title as "the definitive title Golden Horn (p.330-331). While it never received such a title, there was promotional material made for it. I think as if anyone had any glance of what this film would be by memory in English, i'd lean towards Golden Horn. That film has enough information for a valid article, so I can tackle that and explain its title situation within an article later. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I don;t think an English language print of that film was ever shown anywhere. The English print was created but it never got distributed, and then later it just vanished, so it was never shown anywhere in English, not even on American TV or VHS. Also I don't know about that Curti book, I would think the Thrower book is a lot more reliable.49Bottles (talk) 22:22, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

You can read more about Curti here. He has published several books on European genre cinema in the past decade alone. Curti says in the beginning of the 2024 book that the text is "the result of extensive research from a variety of sources, the majority of which can be found in the Archivio General de la Administracion (General Archive of Information) at Alcala de Henares, the Filmoteca Española (Spanish Filmotheque) and the Biblioteca Nacional de España (National Library of Spain) in Madrid: production and censorship papers; original scripts and synopses; magazines and periodicals (either Spanish or foreign) of the period; academic texts, essays and interviews with Jesus Franco and his collaborators." (Curti/Cesari, page x). I feel very comfortable using the source. May I ask why you had doubts about it? Andrzejbanas (talk) 22:36, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Curti seems to be an expert on too many topics, he covers a lot of topics but I'm just not sure if he devotes enough time to research each one. The Thrower books are massive, I tend to trust them more but the problem with them is, some of the info in the articles contradicts itself, especially the alternate titles info & the different release dates. 49Bottles (talk) 23:30, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Right, just to clarify, this isn't really isn't down to a vote. He's worked in the industry for decades and the book passes WP:REPUTABLE per "Articles should be based on reliable, independent, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." Its not really up to a hunches or feelings here and he's clearly done extensive work. Andrzejbanas (talk) 23:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

As for the Lucky the Inscrutable, Thrower lists the title, but I see no mention of it getting a release outside of Europe. So where did the title come from? BFI lists it as an alternative title lists it, but there is no context to how it was used. As I can't confirm any English-language release, I think we should stick with the Italian title, anyone looking for this title will find it very easily as its English equivalent is very similar.Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, unless they think they are two films in a series, like the Bond films. I don't have the book here but I'm almost positive that film was shown in English-speaking countries as "Lucky the Inscrutable". I think it was shown in the US on TV.49Bottles (talk) 22:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

What is the book in question you are referring to? I'd be curious to check myself. Andrzejbanas (talk) 22:36, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

The 2 Thrower books. Then there's "Obsession by Lucas Balbo. 49Bottles (talk) 23:23, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I have access to all three. While I do know of the Balbo book. While Thrower can probably get a pass as he's continuously invited to discuss as an expert on all things Franco. The Balbo book might not pass as it appears to be as self-published book (see WP:RS/SPS, which states "Anyone can create a personal web page or publish their own book and claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published sources are largely not acceptable." If you can find anything to cite the author as potentially reliable we might be able to use it, but looking through the book, I don't see any references to where the information is gathered or how. Andrzejbanas (talk) 23:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Length

Despite creating this list, I'm concerned it doesn't follow MOS:LONGSEQ. Franco's filmography is long and complicated as he's directed around 200 films, and his current filmography also includes films beyond his directorial contributions. That said, I feel like splitting it would really limit the usefulness as a filmography, even if it just strictly went into his directing work. Any thoughts on how this could/should be handled? Andrzejbanas (talk) 16:41, 9 September 2024 (UTC)