Talk:Kathy Hochul

Irish Catholic Descent?

What is Irish Catholic "descent"? Catholic is not an ancestry.... 021120x (talk) 01:36, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

I think it could be an ancestry, although not a genetic one. But it's not in the cited source. "Descent" was added here [1] with no explanation. I have removed it. GA-RT-22 (talk) 12:05, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

RfC Infobox Image

Proposed image

Just wondering about some thoughts in terms of replacing the infobox image to one of Hochul in her current office (as Governor of NY). I found this one from April 2022. It looks good in quality and shows Governor Hochul whereas the infobox image is an outdated portrait (5 years) of Lieutenant Governor Hochul. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 12:06, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Do it. I have no objection and I can't see anyone who is against it . Greenhighwayconstruction (talk) 00:46, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

I object to it. How in the heck is that a better photo than her official photo? Her appearance hasn't changed much since then either 47.223.90.202 (talk) 13:37, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Edits from 29 December 2022 regarding 4104-A

I've altered the edits regarding Senate Bill 4104-A as they violated WP:NPOV and WP:BLP. The sources may also need to be improved, as one of them appears to be a twitter image, but as a noob to editing I feel I would somehow mess them up. Might be worth keeping an eye on this article, especially if it's brigaded by emotional individuals from other websites. 2A00:23C7:F329:5D00:345B:141A:8ABC:DC9E (talk) 16:52, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

is there a navbox for Kathy Hochul?

most other governors have this. Do not want to duplicate work. Joco179 (talk) 14:46, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Bias in "Controversy" section

The "controversy" section of the article, which cites only Hochul's response to the Hamas terrorist attacks in Israel, seems to have been written with political bias. One could clearly argue that as the governor of the state with the largest Jewish population in the diaspora, her support of Israel was not at all "controversial," rendering this entire section unnecessary. Perhaps section title should be changed to "response to Hamas terror attacks" or "Israeli-Hamas War." Outheretryin (talk) 04:07, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

It was a recent addition and I have removed it. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:28, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Nothing wrong with it being recent (the event itself was!) Scientelensia (talk) 16:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

It’s timing has no bearing on its lack of controversy though. My point stands. Outheretryin (talk) 16:21, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

The timing suggests WP:RECENCY bias. If you want this article to have a section on Israel/Palestine issues, a thorough and holistic view of her past statements and congressional votes would be in order, not a focus on one comment made over the weekend. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:33, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• The version that was added definitely had problems. In particular it framed Awad's response as being to Hochul's statements specifically, which isn't my reading of the source (he's responding to the general tone of the responses above rather than just Hochul - responses like those. We definitely can't use Awad's statement like that. --Aquillion (talk) 21:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Inclusion of Israel-Palestine conflict views under political views

Numerous sources have referenced Hochul's reactions to protests in support of Palestinians as “abhorrent and morally repugnant.” Sources on this include AP, NYT, WAPO and many others. Something was added on it, alongside reactions, but it was removed, per above. Should something be re-added on this, not in a controversy section, but under her political views? Iskandar323 (talk) 16:48, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Possibly we could have an Israel / Palestine subsection, but I feel that it would be important to avoid basing it on just this one source. Surely there are other sources we could use to flesh out her general views as well? The quote could be included as part of that but shouldn't be the entire section. This would also satisfy WP:SUSTAINED - even though obviously the quote is recent, we can establish the relevance of her views on the topic by having a bunch of coverage of it over an extended period of time. OTOH coverage of that quote is the only coverage of her position here then her views on that topic might not be significant enough to include. --Aquillion (talk) 21:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  Plenty of sources exist covering numerous aspects of her engagement with the Israel/Palestine question: her visit to Israel (NYT, Politico, Jerusalem Post, etc.), her lobbying Congress for aid to Israel (Politico), her denunciation of pro-Palestine protests (Times Union, Independent, Politico). More than enough for a subsection, for which the version added by Iskandar323 would be a reasonable basis. Muboshgu is right to cite WP:CSECTION, but wrong to invoke WP:RECENT – avoiding recency bias doesn't mean avoiding any coverage of recent events, it means not allowing them to overwhelm historical content. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 11:05, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

  Agreed. So, based on this, could a section on her views be made or does her statements count as controversy in their own right? Scientelensia (talk) 12:58, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

  Controversy sections are rarely appropriate. A subsection under "Political views" would be the way to go. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 16:43, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Thoughts on her recent comments? BinaryBrainBug (talk) 12:19, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Unable to edit this page

I was going to add a wikilink to this article, but was prevented from doing so since it appears to be locked from editing. Please fix this ridiculous situation! 98.123.38.211 (talk) 22:54, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:21st-century Roman Catholics

Kathy Hochul is an Irish Catholic 2600:4808:9C70:6600:91D:3238:EEAD:E651 (talk) 22:51, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Add category relevant to her religion

Category:21st-century Romsn Catholics 69.115.128.236 (talk) 05:34, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for noticing it was missing. Dimadick (talk) 15:23, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2024

Former Hochul aide jailed for spying

Please add:

"A former aide to Hochul, identified as Linda Sun, who served as deputy chief of staff to Hochul, has been arrested on charges of acting as an unregistered foreign agent for China. According to federal prosecutors, Sun allegedly used his position to collect information about prominent New York-based Tibetan dissidents and provide it to Chinese intelligence officials between 2019 and 2023.

“As alleged, while appearing to serve the people of New York as deputy chief of staff within the New York State Executive Chamber, the defendant and her husband actually worked to further the interests of the Chinese government and the CCP,” U.S. Attorney Breon Peace said."''

Sources: NYT ABC

2601:19E:427E:5BB0:8BAB:B116:675B:AB5F (talk) 19:23, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

 Not done - trivial to the article, WP:NOTNEWS. Zefr (talk) 23:53, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely related to the article. Many RS of the highest caliber are reporting this former aide changed some of Hochul's taped speeches and forged her signature. Absolutely WP:DUE

Not having this covered would be contrary to WP:NPOV

Respectfully, I honestly believe you didn't read any of the RS coverage. Please do so and see if you change your opinion. In the mean time, I'd ask for an uninvolved editor to chime in.

Some WSJ citations:

"...forged the governor’s signature as part of a lucrative scheme to advance Beijing’s interests.",

"Sun even forged Hochul’s signature on one of the letters, according to the indictment."

"In one instance, she pushed for the removal of a reference to the detention of members of China’s ethnic Muslim Uyghur community from a videotaped message that Hochul, then the state’s lieutenant governor, made to celebrate the Lunar New Year"

The above can easily be found at AP, Reuters, CNN, ABC, CBS, NYT, WaPo, etc. It is easy to see the need to include this.

2601:19E:427E:5BB0:8BAB:B116:675B:AB5F (talk) 00:27, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

This has been answered. Hochul's aide is not Hochul. Establish consensus for inclusion before using the template. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

RfC on including Hochul's aide being prosecuted for spying

Should the news on Linda Sun, being prosecuted for spying while working for Hochul be included?

2601:19E:427E:5BB0:8BAB:B116:675B:AB5F (talk) 01:21, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Include - All RS are covering it. AP, Reuters, WSJ, CNN, ABC, CBS, etc. They all mention the various times Linda Sun forged Hochul's signature, modified Hochul's speeches, and other major acts of corruption while being Hochul's Deputy Chief of Staff. Federal prosecutors have thus charged Sun as a spy. I strongly believe a few sentences on this article are more than Wikipedia:Due.

2601:19E:427E:5BB0:8BAB:B116:675B:AB5F (talk) 01:25, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Malformed RfC. See WP:RFCBEFORE O3000, Ret. (talk) 01:35, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Anon, please discuss this before jumping to edit request or rfc. Just open a new section here on the talk page, give it some neutral heading like "Linda Sun", and say what you have to say. Don't use any templates. GA-RT-22 (talk) 02:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Check the topuc above this one. I believe I already did so, using the proper template that this article's protection level requires.

Let me know what step I missed.

2601:19E:427E:5BB0:8BAB:B116:675B:AB5F (talk) 02:16, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

The step you missed was getting consensus first before making the edit request. That's why I said you need to discuss this first. You can't get consensus without a discussion. See the template documentation, or Wikipedia:Edit requests. GA-RT-22 (talk) 05:20, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think she was accused of "spying" but of working for a foreign government. But just because an incident is covered by the news doesn't mean it belongs in a biographical article. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:27, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

You made two points @Liz:

1.CNN calls it 'acting as an agent for the Chinese government'. Daily Beast, AP, and NYT call Sun a 'Chinese agent'. NBC terms it 'secrer Chinese agent'. Politico does call Sun a 'spy'. The Federal indictment calls Sun 'Acting as an Undisclosed Agent of the People's Republic of China and the Chinese Communist Party'.

As per any defition of spy in a reliable dictionary, Sun is a spy. Also, as per Espionage, Sun qualifies readily as a spy.

What else would you need from RS to agree that Sun is a spy?

2.

To your second point. All the RS cited above are also covering Hochul's response. As per CNN, for example, "It was a betrayal of trust," Hochul told WNYC about the allegations against Sun. Hochul said her office fired Sun.

I cannot imagine in what world all the above with so many RS covering is not fit for Hochul's WP article. It fits all the whats needed for a NPOV, DUE, and BLP. This didn't happen to somebody on the periphery of Hochul, but to her Deputy Chief of Staff, who took millions of dollars in payment from a foreign government to forge Hochul's signature, obtain many fraudulent visas for her paying government, change and edit speeches and videos Hochul gave and taped, and the list goes on.

It is frankly astonishing to see resistance from an experienced admin such as yourself.

2601:19E:427E:5BB0:34CA:87CE:F550:B1EE (talk) 04:50, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

This belongs in an article about Linda Sun, not an article about Kathy Hochul. O3000, Ret. (talk) 10:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

You haven't replied to literally any of the points above and thus are not contributing to the discussion.

2601:19E:427E:5BB0:34CA:87CE:F550:B1EE (talk) 11:03, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I just did reply. The fact that you do not agree with my reply does not mean it was not a contribution. O3000, Ret. (talk) 11:11, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Focus on Wikipedia:Focus on content not the user. Go ahead, please explain to the worldyour point by point rebuke of the arguments for this RfC.

Oh, my bad, I don't see them.

I do notice you reply to every one of my suggested edits even in topics you haven't edited before, it seems. Could it be just be sour grapes over a previous disagreement we had?

If you are not contributing to this topic, article, and RfC then you are not helping WP.

Please just Wikipedia:Let it go

2601:19E:427E:5BB0:34CA:87CE:F550:B1EE (talk) 11:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Pleas stop these nasty posts. O3000, Ret. (talk) 12:49, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Good grief. Please stop@Objective3000.

2601:19E:427E:5BB0:34CA:87CE:F550:B1EE (talk) 14:12, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

The IP has been blocked. O3000, Ret. (talk) 20:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

So are you suggesting including a sentence to the effect of, "When Hochul discovered that one staff member was allegedly spying for the Chinese government, she fired that person from her staff" to the article? Because that, plus Hochul being a victim of forgery, is about all the sources say regarding Hochul. —C.Fred (talk) 12:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

You haven't read the sources then, it seems. These RS also mention how Sun, the spy, changed some of Hochul written speeches and videotaped statements. Moreover, even AP states that Sun:

blocked representatives of the Taiwanese government from having access to the governor’s office and shaped New York governmental messaging to align with the priorities of the Chinese government. That's Hochul there, yet again.

Let us know after you've read the many RS, if you still believe this would be undue to include.

2601:19E:427E:5BB0:34CA:87CE:F550:B1EE (talk) 14:11, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

WP:GUILT: Guilt by association is never a sufficient reason to include negative information about third parties in a biography. At a minimum, there should be reliable sources showing a direct relationship between the conduct of the third parties and the conduct of the subject (i.e. a nexus), or that the subject knew or should have known about and could have prevented the conduct of the third parties. Some words cut out of speeches? It is UNDUE. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:22, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

• The term spy is peppered throughout this discussion. The actual charges are failure to register as a foreign agent, visa fraud, alien smuggling and money laundering conspiracy. The Foreign Agents Registration Act has little if any connection to spying. For example, Paul Manafort, adviser to the U.S. presidential campaigns of Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and Bob Dole and briefly head of Trump's campaign committee, pled guilty to failing to register as a foreign agent. He was not a spy. O3000, Ret. (talk) 18:44, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
• I would lean toward including brief mention of this, per prominent RS coverage, but don't dwell on it. This is not a Linda Sun article (cf. WP:COATRACK). Agreed with Objective3000 that we have to get the legal terminology correct regarding FARA (it's not "spying" or "espionage").  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:48, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
• Exclude This seems more appropriate for there to be an article about Linda Sun rather than the information to be included in Hochul's article. The extent of Hochul's involvement seems to be that she was a victim (read, they forged her signature, modified her speeches, etc) and upon discovery of everything Hochul fired Sun. Per WP:GUILT it doesn't seem appropriate to include. Brocade River Poems (She/They) 17:38, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

  Even if Sun had a separate article, she'd end up included in this one and vice versa (briefly) because the coverage about the two individuals interrelates so strongly. But it seems unlikely to me that Sun would pass WP:GNG. (That said, public servants and their aides are public figures, so the privacy issue codified at WP:BLP1E wouldn't apply to Sun.)  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  21:11, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 September 2024

"Born in Buffalo, New York, Hochul graduated from Syracuse University in 1981 and received a Juris Doctor from the Catholic University of America Columbus School of Law in Washington, D.C. in 1985. After serving on the Hamburg town board and as deputy Erie County clerk, Hochul was appointed Erie County clerk in 2009. She was elected to a full term as Erie County clerk in 2009 and reelected in 2011."

"Hochul was appointed as governor at 12:00 AM Eastern Time (ET) on August 24 by New York Chief Judge Janet DiFiore in a private ceremony. A public ceremonial event was held later that morning at the State Capitol's Red Room.[77]"

"Delaware North has stated that William Hochul will not be prohibited from working on any matter that involves state business, oversight, or regulation. A spokesman for Kathy Hochul has said that she had a recusal policy as lieutenant governor and would not maintain that policy as governor." Dear Wikipedia I'm Kathy Hochul, the 57th Governor of New York and I would like to edit details of this that I feel are inaccurate or don't reflect my life properly. KathyHochul (talk) 15:42, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

You are welcome to suggest any changes you wish here. However, we do require reliable secondary sources as per WP:RS O3000, Ret. (talk) 16:06, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I tweaked some of the wording to better reflect what the sources say. If you have suggestions for changes, please present them in the form "change 'this' to 'that'". Don't try to edit the article directly. See WP:COI. GA-RT-22 (talk) 21:57, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

A comma

It says that she is the first female governor and the first governor from upstate NY since the guy in 1924. Doesn't it need a comma after governor? 220.240.171.237 (talk) 10:57, 16 October 2024 (UTC)