Talk:Krzyż i półksiężyc

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Launchballer talk 00:58, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

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• ... that the 1913 Polish novel The Cross and the Crescent is one of the earliest examples of military science fiction genre in Polish literature? Source: https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/uminski_wladyslaw
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: QPQ pending

Created by Piotrus (talk) and Oliwiasocz (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 524 past nominations.

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 15:20, 24 September 2024 (UTC).

• I will be closing this in 24 hours if I don't see a valid QPQ before then @Piotrus:.--Launchballer 14:39, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
  • QPQ done: Template:Did you know nominations/KXXV. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:03, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
• QPQ provided.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:50, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Aydoh8^[contribs] 01:03, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:DYKNEW, seven days can be extended by a day or two upon request. This is fine.--Launchballer 01:07, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Superseding X icon because the newness was incorrectly assessed. Pinging reviewer Aydoh8 to return and reassess. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:11, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

done. Aydoh8^[contribs] 21:06, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

@Piotrus and Aydoh8: The source says that Umiński was one of the earliest Polish SF authors, and that The Cross and the Crescent is something that could be military science fiction, but it doesn't really say that The Cross and the Crescent is one of the earliest MSF books. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 03:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

You do have a point Theleekycauldron. It doesn't explicitly state that The Cross and the Crescent was one of the first MSF books, it is implied however I'm not sure if we can run with that. Aydoh8^[contribs] 03:59, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

@Aydoh8: @Theleekycauldron: Hey guys, I am afraid I don't see the problem. The source states that this book is "perhaps the first example of Polish military SF". The hook says that it is "is one of the earliest examples of military science fiction genre in Polish literature". Aren't those sentences 100% equivalent? Sidenote: both were written by me (I am the author of the source in question). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:23, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Piotrus: Right you are! I did miss that. I will say that no, they're not 100% equivalent, since "perhaps the earliest" and "one of the earliest" are somewhat different, but whatever. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 10:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

@Piotrus, Oliwiasocz, Aydoh8, and Theleekycauldron: Just noting that I pulled this on WP:DYKVAR grounds and will put this back no earlier than prep 2, but now I look, I agree that "perhaps the earliest" and "one of the earliest" are manifestly not the same thing and I won't repromote until this is resolved. I haven't put this back into T:TDYK as I plan on putting this back myself, but won't object to anyone else doing so.--Launchballer 17:02, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: I have updated the wording to be the same as in the source; although I still fail to see any significant difference. Let me try to explain this again: it is the earliest example of military sf in Polish literature I am aware of and I am also not aware of anybody studying this and making any claim to the contrary; nonetheless I worded things in a cautious way because it there is a tiny chance that there might be some super obscure work that could be "first" instead - I have not done a comprehensive study of all historical works in Polish literature. If necessary I can ask the SFE editors to update the wording there; if anyone things a clarification is needed in the source article (it is not a wiki, but the senior editors there update the pages regularly with corrections if necessary). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:24, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• ALT1: ... that the 1913 Polish novel The Cross and the Crescent is perhaps one of the earliest examples of military science fiction genre in Polish literature?

@Piotrus: The article uses quote marks but doesn't attribute anyone, and the hook says it in wikivoice.--Launchballer 00:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: Since I am the author of both pieces (the article used as a source and the article on Wiki, as well as the hook), I give us here and myself explicitly permission to not use quote marks and I can confirm that the wikivoice usage is fine, approved and intended. Now, problem is solved. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:55, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Launchballer: PS. I also do not require to be explicitly attributed in the text on Wikipedia, but I can add this, if you prefer to see this in the text or in the hook (I prefer not to do it usually to avoid accusations of COI and promoting myself, but if you insist, I won't oppose - see ALT1a below).--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• ALT1a: ... that according to Piotr Konieczny in The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction, the 1913 Polish novel The Cross and the Crescent may be one of the earliest examples of the military science fiction genre in Polish literature?

Citing yourself is explicitly allowed per WP:CITESELF and the source meets WP:USEBYOTHERS, so this is fine. I can't name you as it would take the hook above 200 characters, but I'll update it to attribute the encyclopedia.--Launchballer 01:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)