Talk:LeBron James/Archive 6

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GOAT Debate if lakers win championship (championships on 3 teams)

If the lakers win the championship, such that Lebron wins nba championships on 3 different teams - the goat sentence should be reassessed and I think rephrased in comparison to jordan's wiki page. Moreover, 10 nba finals appeances across 3 teams (at a time when compared to others there are a lot more teams in the league).

Jordan's wiki declares , "His biography on the official NBA website states: "By acclamation, Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time."[5]" Also comparing teammatates a young version of kyrie irving, kevin love (with some of the best players sitting out with injuries), and jr smith against a warriors dynasty. Jordan played those championship years with scottie pippen, bill cartwritght, steve kerr, toni kukoc, ron harper, bj armstrong, and dennis rodman. Just for consideration we may want to adjust sentences on both pages if the lakers win a championship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikecurry1 (talk • contribs)

We need to stick to what the sources state and with WP:Due weight. It's that simple. It's for sources, including the official NBA website, to reassess that debate and us to follow those sources. Wikipedia follows; it does not lead. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 03:41, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Simply stated, we only present what the sources say. So let's wait for the Finals to end and see what sources say (and be wary of WP:RECENTISM)—Bagumba (talk) 04:22, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, it needs to be source based. I agree in terms of recentism too, and this should be history focused, not recentism focused. I agree with due weight to both athletes. It is more opinion than fact that Jordan is the GOAT or Lebron is the GOAT. In light of a change in basketball history (if lebron wins a new championship on a third team), it is said that this change in history should be relitigated by several sources.[1] It is worth noting how Lionel Messi, Ronaldo, Pele, and Tom Brady wikipages describe the GOAT debate. It is also worth noting that if Lebron was an nba franchise, he has had more nba final appareances than all but 3 NBA basketball franchises, one less than the golden state warriors in franchise history and more than the new york knicks, chicago bulls, philadelphia 76ers, or miami heat. [2]. In light of WP:RECENTISM (wait and see) I do not think this needs to be re-litigated until after a new championship on a historic third team, but should be if he indeed gets a championship on the Lakers.Mikecurry1 (talk) 20:28, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

{This is true. that Lebron will be one of two players well known to have a ring with more than 2 franchises. Additionally, this will make LBJ the only player in NBA history so far to have finals MVP in 3 different teams.(WachiraRisky edited-10/9/2020)} — Preceding unsigned comment added by WachiraRisky (talk • contribs) 23:34, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, what do you think about something like this instead? I think Lebron deserves a little more respect. "He is widely considered to be one of the greatest basketball players in NBA history, with some sports commentators considering him the greatest of all time, bringing NBA championships to three franchises as Finals MVP. Playing with the Cleveland Cavaliers, Miami Heat, and Los Angeles Lakers, James has played in ten NBA Finals, including eight consecutive with the Heat and Cavaliers from 2011 through 2018."

I think it is quite acknowledged that various sports analysts as well as players consider Lebron the GOAT, while others think Jordan is the GOAT. So it is just acknowledging that reality that he is considered by many sources as the Goat with WP:Due weight (Kendrick Perckins, Nick Wright, Shannon Sharpe, Isiah Thomas, Jay Williams, etc.) How can we show Lebron more respect? Any thoughts or ideas on making wording adjustments in light of this championship? [3][4][5][6]Mikecurry1 (talk) 19:08, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Mikecurry1, why are you arguing this, given what Baguma and I stated above? A few commentators reiterate that they think James is the greatest of all time, and you think we should change the text to your proposed wording? People like Kendrick Perkins and Shannon Sharpe have consistently thought that James is the greatest of all time. That's not them changing their opinions. Those aren't sources about coming to a consensus that James is now the greatest. They aren't sources like this Business Insider source that addresses a big poll on the matter. Right now, until sources state otherwise, the debate matter is the same as it was before -- some people think that James is the greatest, but significantly more think that Jordan is the greatest. And, like we discussed before, we would be remiss to not mention the GOAT debate/Jordan in the lead. Please do not think of this from your perspective as a fan. I assume you are a James fan. I consider Jordan the greatest, but I have still endorsed us stating something like "James is often regarded as the greatest basketball player of all time" in the lead.

We used wording like your proposed wording before. Remember? Let me recap: Before I even tried different wordings to relay the "one of the greatest" and "the greatest" aspects, the lead stated, "Often considered the best basketball player in the world and regarded by some as the greatest player of all time [...]." That is seen with this "22:58, 12 January 2019" version of the article, where I made my first edit to the article. The edit, as is clear by my edit summary, was made only to fix a quotation marks style. That version of the lead used the WP:Weasel wording "some" regarding "the greatest player of all time." It also had citation overkill going on just to support the sentence. As seen at Talk:LeBron James/Archive 5#Removal of "Greatest play of all time" acclimation from intro?, editors' biases caused them to not even want it acknowledged in the lead that James is considered the greatest and to remove that aspect. After complaints, I re-added the piece, but with a simple sentence: "He is regarded by some as the greatest player of all time." I then changed it to "He is often regarded as the greatest basketball player of all time." This didn't sit well with those who still see Jordan as the greatest. So I ended up changing it to "Often compared to Michael Jordan for title of the greatest basketball player of all time [...]." But, as seen at Talk:LeBron James/Archive 5#Removing Michael Jordan from Lebron's introduction - phrasing of sentence for GOAT, this didn't sit well with you. So we agreed to change it to "James is often regarded as the greatest basketball player of all time, which has resulted in frequent comparisons to Michael Jordan." But this is wording I'd used before; someone had objected to it before. So I knew it would be an issue again. After commentary from someone about sourcing, I added six references in a WP:CITEBUNDLE to support the sentence. It also took care of the citation overkill being directly visible. This is noted at Talk:LeBron James/Archive 5#Status as "greatest ever", the discussion. That discussion led to the current wording.

It's important to note (in some way) in the lead that James is often considered the greatest NBA player of all-time. And editors will complain and/or add it to the lead if it's not there. But if we just leave it at that, people edit war over it a lot because they feel that it contradicts the lead of the Michael Jordan article or specifically contradicts Jordan widely being considered the greatest NBA player of all-time. As seen above, multiple different wordings have been tried...to combat the edit warring and satisfy readers and/or editors, but no wording is going to satisfy everyone. Despite the "no wording is going to satisfy everyone" factor, I'll try to think of yet another way to reword the matter. But like I stated before, "I'm not going to keep trying different wording, though. Eventually, editors will need to just accept what the sources state and with due weight." Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 00:58, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Y2kcrazyjoker4, regarding this new wording? Thank you so much. I tweaked it by adding "of all time." I thought about using wording like yours before, but I never quite got there; I knew that I didn't want the actual words "GOAT debate" in the lead and that I was going to spell it out. As you can see above, I repeated a lot of what I stated to you on your talk page yesterday. I no longer see any need to think of different wording. And I don't think we should use any wording that was tried before. Mikecurry1's above proposal is similar to what we have tried before. Even though an editor might try to change your wording, I think we should just stick to it. Revert and point them to the talk page for discussion. To reiterate, no wording is going to please everyone. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 17:36, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi Flyer22 Frozen, I 100% AGREE with you and everything you just wrote. I also had no issue with your "GOAT" wording here or the previous wording, and was not trying to rehash or argue that, I thought you did a good job on that. I tagged you as you were familiar with the GOAT wording, I did not want to argue or rehash your past discussions on this wording. I had no argument or issue with "Widely considered one of the greatest NBA players" (as on the current wiki) or "of all time (with the change). I am fine with both, as well as i liked your other wordings too.

What I was trying to do instead of rehash that Goat conversation, was in light of sources such as at ESPN[7], saying this whole GOAT conversation is different now, I was trying to discuss if wording should be updated in light of the third championship on a new team, rather than the "GOAT" wording.

I think my point was similar to yours which I agree with you that the "GOAT DEBATE" is best left out of the intro, which is and has been too controversial, and move past that. Therefore, if you kept your GOAT wording as you prefer, and (took out the part about Jordan (which is referencing the GOAT debate) and replace the Jordan part with Lebron's winning championships on three teams it may be an improvement in light of why Lebron is among the NBA's historic greats. Such as current version:

He is widely considered one of the greatest NBA players, James is frequently compared to Michael Jordan in debates over the greatest basketball player of all time.[1] During his 17-year NBA career, James has played for the Cleveland Cavaliers, the Miami Heat, and the Lakers. He has competed in ten NBA Finals, including eight consecutive with the Heat and Cavaliers from 2011 through 2018.

Proposed Change replacing referenced "GOAT DEBATE" (Jordan part) with Lebron's championships on three teams):

He is widely considered one of the greatest basketball players of all time, bringing NBA championships to three franchises as Finals MVP. Playing with the Cleveland Cavaliers, Miami Heat, and Los Angeles Lakers, James has played in ten NBA Finals, including eight consecutive with the Heat and Cavaliers from 2011 through 2018."

By removing Jordan from Lebron's intro would sidestep the whole "GOAT DEBATE" entirely from the intro, and still use the wording one of the greatest of all time, etc., as you like. It moves past the whole "GOAT DEBATE" in the intro by referencing what WachiraRisky and I thought of what is historically important in bringing three franchises to championships. Any thoughts on this Flyer22 Frozen? Mikecurry1 (talk) 21:14, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Mikecurry1, I prefer not to be pinged to talk pages I'm watching.

You stated that you 100% agree with me, but then you stated that you "agree with [me] that the 'GOAT DEBATE' is best left out of the intro." I never argued that. I've argued the opposite. I just stated above that "It's important to note (in some way) in the lead that James is often considered the greatest NBA player of all-time. And editors will complain and/or add it to the lead if it's not there. But if we just leave it at that, people edit war over it a lot because they feel that it contradicts the lead of the Michael Jordan article or specifically contradicts Jordan widely being considered the greatest NBA player of all-time. As seen above, multiple different wordings have been tried...to combat the edit warring and satisfy readers and/or editors, but no wording is going to satisfy everyone." Having the lead state that James is often considered the greatest of all-time, with no context on that (the Jordan context), never works. This is because someone will always come along and state "What about Jordan?" While other wordings have been messed with as well, people take more of an issue with stating something like "He is often considered the greatest NBA player of all-time" and nothing else. People also take an issue with stating "one of the greatest basketball players of all time." They will change that to "the greatest" rather than "one of the greatest." And per what I told you before, they would be right to do so. Stating "one of the greatest" downplays the fact that James is often considered the greatest. Right now, the lead is clear that he is widely considered one of the greatest and that he is often discussed as the greatest, even if framed in the context of the debate. It also aligns with the Legacy section, which it should per WP:Lead.

And to repeat, nothing has significantly changed when it comes to the debate because it's not like James is now considered the greatest of time all more than Jordan is considered the greatest of all time. Like various analysts have made clear, most people (including analysts) have already made up their minds on this. The vast majority of those who were for Jordan as the greatest are still for Jordan; the vast majority of those were for James as the greatest are still for James. You stated that you "did not want to argue or rehash [my] past discussions on this wording", but that is what you are doing now. You also aren't keeping WP:Recentism in mind even though you stated that you would. With regard to reassessing the GOAT debate, we need to wait. Not just a few days. Not just a few weeks. Not just a few months. Well, not unless a consensus develops among analysts during that time. We need to wait for many sources to agree that James is now the greatest or at least that James is tied with Jordan. Sure, we could add that "James is widely considered the greatest basketball players of all time", but this goes back to what I argued in the second paragraph of this post. I don't mind you altering the " bringing NBA championships to three franchises as Finals MVP" aspect in some way if others do not. But I do mind you changing the wording that Y2kcrazyjoker4 implemented. I think that wording is best for now. But keep in mind that the lead already states, "He is the only player in NBA history to have been named Finals MVP with three different franchises." And it seems to fit best where it's currently placed. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 21:55, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Also, don't forget that something about the historical importance of bringing three franchises to championships can be mentioned in the Legacy section. The lead is simply for summarizing matters covered in the body of the article. You can propose wording here for the Legacy section. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 22:09, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree with you and what you wrote here too. I do agree that Jordan is considered by more analysts the GOAT than Lebron at this moment in time (and that should be what is used), and it would take years for that to change or possibly a 5th championship (over 3 teams) as magic johnson said. I can agree and see how that part of the debate will always have people wanting to adjust the wording to Lebron is better than Jordan. I was fine with and was doing my best to keep the wording that Y2kcrazyjoker4 implemented. I was fine with "Widely considered one of the greatest NBA players" (as on the current wiki) or "of all time (with the change). I was not trying to rehash that argument at all and had no issues with that. Rather, I think where there was confusion is the part I thought could use improvement was on the context of why people view him as in the top players of all time. I was trying to adjust the part that you did not mind changing about the context of why "bringing NBA championships to three franchises as Finals MVP" for the context that WachiraRisky and I commented on.

On a side note only for your consideration and not to rehash (as i am not familiar with the past discussions and you are), I do think jordan had a good solution and answer as to how to solve your issue of editing this, which could be used on wiki, which is to say greatest player of the modern era. Then it is not inviting all the jordan comparisons (including in this intro), and is not diminishing lebron, but that is just for your consideration. I am not trying to rehash that goat part at all. I actually do not care about the wording Y2kcrazyjoker4 implemented and was fine with that as I said. I do think it may be possible to be creative and end most of the need to continously adjust the sentence, by saying something like widely "considered the greatest player of the modern era," and then add a context that does not reference Jordan "bringing NBA championships to three franchises as Finals MVP," but that is just for you to consider as I agree jordan has more votes that he is the goat right now. So a long comment on the modern era part is not needed, just for you to consider. So please understand that it was my goal to not rehash the goat wording of that sentence, which I was fine with, and am only trying to adjust the context surrounding it - which you were good with adjusting too. So I actually think we are on the same page in a lot of ways and are in agreement as to the reasons behind it and what should be said for the most part. I think what you wrote is very reasonable and I agree.Mikecurry1 (talk) 17:36, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

"Modern era" is too ambiguous, though you perhaps mean unrestricted free agency, no hand-checking, 3-pt era, etc.—Bagumba (talk) 18:02, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Like Bagumba, I'm not for "greatest player of the modern era", especially without reliable sources stating that. But beyond reliable sources, that's not usually what James is called. Per what I stated above, I've been clear why we reference Jordan in the lead. Removing mention of him from the lead won't stop the wording disputes regarding describing James as the greatest or simply as one of the greatest. To state anything more, including when it comes to your latest suggestion, I'd just be repeating myself. For the most part anyway. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 20:22, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, Bagumba, 3-pt era. That is more specific. I think you took my underlying point, and composed a better way to phrase it.

My point was too describe the context and reasons around the GOAT wording rather than the goat wording part, the reasoning for why Lebron is among the greatest, which i think could be updated with the championship. I think if we kept the wording of the goat as it is and just edited the next sentence that could also accomplish that.

Proposed adjustment:

Widely considered one of the greatest NBA players, James is frequently compared to Michael Jordan in debates over the greatest basketball player of all time.[1]. Playing on the Cleveland Cavaliers, Miami Heat, and Los Angeles Lakers, James has brought NBA championships to three franchises as Finals MVP.

Or alternative:

Widely considered one of the greatest NBA players, James is frequently compared to Michael Jordan in debates over the greatest basketball player of all time.[1]. Playing on the Cleveland Cavaliers, Miami Heat, and Los Angeles Lakers, James has been the only player to bring NBA championships to three franchises as Finals MVP.

(this then removes by synthesis an extra sentence just added about being nba finals mvp on 3 franchises. It is a less wordy way to mention that he won championships on 3 franchises (not currently in the introduction) as well as his finals mvps (on 3 franchises) - and better addresses the central reason why he is considered so impactful right below the goat wording part. The alternative proposal includes a comment mentioned by WachiryRisky. And the goat wording stays constant per Flyer22.) Mikecurry1 (talk) 21:00, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Sources don't state "greatest player of the three-point era" either with regard to James. Such wording also makes it sound like James is considered one of the great three-point shooters. He's not. "Greatest" or "most important" player of the three-point era stuff is usually attributed to Stephen Curry, like this 2019 "Why Stephen Curry (Not LeBron) Is the N.B.A. Player of the Decade" The New York Times source stating, for example, "It feels weird not to pick LeBron James here, what with him being the best player in the world and all, but Stephen Curry was the defining player of this decade. No one changed basketball the way he did, and no one captivated the world as he did. Suddenly, here was a player for whom there was no such thing as a bad shot. That’s not true for anyone besides Curry. He’s the one."

This change you made is not an improvement. It doesn't give better context regarding the GOAT debate. What it does is move the fact that James has brought NBA championships to three franchises as their Finals MVP." piece ahead of the "His accomplishments include" text. It should be behind the "His accomplishments include" text, like it was before since the "brought NBA championships to three franchises as their Finals MVP" thing is a part of his accomplishments. Most importantly, that text you added does not make it clear why that aspect of his career is important. The "He is the only player in NBA history to have been named Finals MVP with three different franchises." sentence that you removed obviously makes it clear why that is important. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 22:43, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

In this paragraph, I previously stated, "I really don't know why you think moving the 'brought NBA championships to three franchises as their Finals MVP' piece to where you moved it -- placing it so early on -- helps anything. But it doesn't." But, well, I know you think it emphasizes why James is such a great basketball player. And, yes, some sources have factored this into the GOAT debate, but it's not like there is some consensus that this has made James better than Jordan or on the same par as Jordan. It is just one of James's many accomplishments. If reliable sources hold this up as his greatest accomplishment, then mentioning it first behind the "His accomplishments include" text might be warranted. It is certainly easy to see why it would be warranted in the Legacy section. But right now, the "2019–2020: Fourth NBA championship" section already notes "and the only player in NBA history to win the award with three different franchises." So anything about this being James's greatest accomplishment should probably be there. But having it placed as early on as you placed it in the lead? It looks odd and sloppy. It was better where it was, with the "only player in NBA history" context. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 23:02, 30 October 2020 (UTC) Tweaked post. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 23:26, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Hey Flyer22, Sorry if there was any confusion. I thought as I was not tweaking the GOAT part - so provided that as a proposal. It can definitely be adjusted, and it may be placed better in other ways. I thought you were mainly concerned about the GOAT wording so I did not think it was a controversial edit (was just adding the three championship franchises part here wachiryrisky and I mentioned), or I would have just left it here first to discuss. What I was trying to do was remove an extra sentence that was newly added that was a bit wordier and did not mention the championships on 3 franchises, and synthesize that into a previous sentence to make it more concise. It can definitely be further improved. I was trying to use what you said about the GOAT part to craft an edit to improve the context.

I agree about using 3 point era regarding curry.

The reason I think the 3 championships on 3 different teams is central, is because I think the arguments for why Jordan is better than James or James is better than Jordan often centers around the championships. Jordan has 6 rings. This is clearly more than James with 4, and thus looking from a championship's perspective Jordan could only ever be the GOAT. The reason or one of the main reasons people look at James as a possible GOAT, or some sportscasters commented on it - was because which is harder winning championships on one team, or winning on three teams, and the impact James has had on bringing those three teams to championships. Only 4 players in NBA history have won championships on 3 teams, but some did not have the same impact as Lebron in getting the championship. For example, Danny Green got a championship on a third team now, but he did not have the same role in bringing those teams to championships, thus the finals mvp across 3 teams is important that he was the person who brought the Lakers or Cavs to the championship. Before this the Lakers had Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Kyle Kuzma. I do not think the Finals MVP is the most important thing, but I think it is acknowledging James's impact in winning three championships on three teams. So I think when people are comparing Lebron and Jordan, most on the Lebron is goat side are not looking at the 4 championships as the reason he is the goat, since 4 is clearly less than 6. Rather, when you hear Shannon Sharpe and others speak they often look at that Lebron brought 3 teams to championship, and his impact on those franchises to bring them to a championship.[8]. For example, this sentence from clutch sports, "LeBron James is the first player to win three championships and three Finals MVP awards with three different teams." They also compare the teammates Lebron has compared to Jordan during his championship runs and how those teammates performed, [9], as well as the difficulty of the road to win championships such as the warriors dynasty. So I think much more than looking at the 4 championships (which is less than 6 - and not right in a row), it is really that he brought 3 franchises to win championships as his dominance in the league. I dont really see a reason his winning championships on three franchieses should not be in the intro, as it is central to his legacy. I agree it could be reworded for sure for improvements or the position could be changed for grammatical improvements. I am not attached to the wording in my proposal at all, rather my edit was to keep the goat wording as is, and just improve the context for why lebron is often considered among the greatest. So please do edit the wording and the placement of the wording, it is not perfect by any means. I was trying to come up with consensus with you for improvements.

On a side note, I agree it reads sloppy, when you compare the Jordan article in terms of the intro organization - Jordan's intro has a far superior introduction organization. There is a seperate section for Jordan's accomplishments. I imagine Lebron's page would be better if it was similar to Jordan's listing Lebron's accomplishments lower on in the introduction. Then a more historic legacy introduction would be an improvement in the early intro (perhaps winning championships on the heat, cavs, and lakers). It seems better to begin the article by reading something more substantive about lebron than a list of accolades. So I think Jordan's page has a better intro layout to consider regarding listing accomplishments. Jordan has his paragraph structure: Introduction - History - Accomplishments - Off the Court. Perhaps a Similar Paragraph Structure: Introduction - History Sections - Accomplishments - Off the Court. This may improve why it reads sloppy as accomplishments is in the intro. I imagine you would agree and think this is better? Mikecurry1 (talk) 17:37, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

No, I don't agree that James's article needs the same setup as Jordan's. These are two different basketball players with two different legacies, and all of the Wikipedia basketball player articles are pretty much set up the same anyway. It's just that some articles will have a Legacy section, or some other difference because the article was crafted to be specific to that player or an editor chose a different heading. I don't know what you mean by "There is a seperate section for Jordan's accomplishments." Both Jordan and James have sections about their careers, player profiles, statistics, legacies, media figure and business interests, and awards and honors.

I think we're at the point where we have debated these topics enough. My opinion, again, is to be mindful of engaging in WP:Recentism and relying on our personal viewpoint(s) regarding the Jordan vs. James debate. My opinion is also that where you placed the aforementioned piece fits better where it was before. For now, I am changing it to make it clear that James is the only player in NBA history to have been named Finals MVP with three different franchises. This also aligns with you suggesting above that part of the wording state "James has been the only player to bring NBA championships to three franchises as Finals MVP." I never stated that this shouldn't be in the introduction. It was already there before you moved it up. You stated, "What I was trying to do was remove an extra sentence that was newly added that was a bit wordier and did not mention the championships on 3 franchises, and synthesize that into a previous sentence to make it more concise." But the lead already stated, "He is the only player in NBA history to have been named Finals MVP with three different franchises." And that is more concise than what you added. So it seems you took issue with the sentence not naming the three franchises. But it's already clear in the lead that James has only played for three teams. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 23:24, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

I like the changes. I agree with it. Yes, I think you included my feedback successfully and have done a good job making improvements with his new championship on a third team. I liked your edit.

Ok, thats fine we dont need to agree on moving some accomplishments lower, it was just an idea to clean it up. We dont need to agree on everything. I was trying to find spots of mutual agreement for improvements.

Do you think the intro should mention something on Lebron's activism off the court besides for schools, such as about his activism in engaging black voters (more than a vote campaign - ending lockdown)? I will add this as an idea to the wiki, but please remove it if you think it is not good there.

Overall, I think your edit was an improvement to the goat phrasing (in light of the championship), thanks!19:25, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

The vote thing should not be singled out in the lead any more than his other activism. I removed that piece. The lead is meant to summarize. Noting in the lead that he is an activist for certain causes (giving a few examples) is better. Also, in the future, I am likely to move the "is the only player in NBA history to have brought NBA championships to three franchises as Finals MVP" text back behind the "His accomplishments include" text. This should not be a problem since you stated that you are okay with that. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 23:42, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, that would be a grammatical improvement. No problems at all adjusting the placement to behind his accomplishments.

Do you think we should in a general summary about Lebron's off the court activities include his activism for the black community in the lead? The shootings were mentioned in his off the court section. I would think lebrons two main activism causes have been education (lebron family foundation) and pro black community improvement (more than a vote).[10][11] For example, the nba playoffs stopped and then restarted over that. Is there a better way to say it in a summarized way as his activism for that cause?Mikecurry1 (talk) 00:34, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

To repeat, "Noting in the lead that he is an activist for certain causes (giving a few examples) is better." In other words, I do not see why just one aspect of his activism should be noted in the lead. Furthermore, it's not like any examples need to be there at all. When we state "his public life has been the subject of much scrutiny", we do not give examples of that. When we state "he has been featured in books, documentaries, and television commercials", we do not give examples of that. You can propose wording here for his activism, but it shouldn't focus just on one part of his activism. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 00:43, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Good point, something more summarized and without examples would be better. I included three ideas (so it does not just focus on one part of his activism on education), without examples, Lebron often contributes to off the court, around social justice, improving black communities, and education in a summarized way. Proposal to improve the last activism sentence: "Off the basketball court, Lebron James' has been a leader and activist for fighting racial equality, improving the lives of African-American communities, and improving education for students in Akron, Ohio." Please edit the sentence as you think as i am not attached to it, but improving upon how it describes lebrons social activism currently. [12][13] Mikecurry1 (talk) 05:25, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

The "Off the court" sentence currently in the lead is fine as is. The material in the rest of the last paragraph in the lead should also be there, with perhaps the exception of mentioning The LeBron James Family Foundation. But I know that you added that piece and want to keep it. The lead paragraph can read as follows: "Off the court, James has accumulated additional wealth and fame from numerous endorsement contracts. He has been featured in books, documentaries, television commercials, and has hosted the ESPY Awards and Saturday Night Live. In 2015, he appeared in the film Trainwreck. James is also an activist for various causes, including fighting for racial equality, improving the lives of African-American communities, and improving education for students. The LeBron James Family Foundation charity builds upon his vision to improve education for students in Akron, Ohio."

For my above-proposed text, I removed "leader" because it's unnecessary and can come across as POV. He does not only advocate for students in Akron, Ohio. He advocates for children/students in general, as is clear by the beginning of the "Activism" section beginning with "James is an active supporter of non-profit organizations, including After-School All-Stars, Boys & Girls Clubs of America, and Children's Defense Fund." So I removed "in Akron, Ohio" and moved the "The LeBron James Family Foundation charity" piece up. I also cut the "His public life has been the subject of much scrutiny" piece. If by "scrutiny", what is meant is "substantial attention", that is already clear by parts of the last paragraph. Otherwise, it's not clear what "scrutiny" means. If "criticism" is meant, that should be used and criticism for what should be clarified. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 00:01, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I think that your proposed text is a good improvement. Let's incorporate that. I did not include mention of the Lebron James Family Foundation. I agree that I am not sure the LeBron James foundation needs to be included either there too. Either way is fine. I like your proposed text and incorporated it for further edits.Music23123 (talk) 18:13, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

The piece about The LeBron James Family Foundation charity was there at the time of your edit. So, yes, there was no need to add that. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 00:51, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Lebron james

from columbus ohio went to harvest prep. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeek 0777 (talk • contribs) 02:03, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Zeek 0777: It's not clear what you are suggesting about the article.—Bagumba (talk) 03:08, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

"LBJ (basketball player)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect LBJ (basketball player). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 December 15#LBJ (basketball player) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. —Bagumba (talk) 12:02, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Category:Catholics from Ohio

Would someone please add Category:Catholics from Ohio? - 50.81.165.38 (talk) 03:53, 5 November 2020 (UTC) Actually, he should be in Category:People excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church. - 50.81.165.53 (talk) 00:54, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2021

LyBrone Jamys Sir BigBoyuios0099 (talk) 20:36, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Pupsterlove02 talk • contribs 23:32, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 February 2021

Change: "In Game 5 of the NBA Conference Finals, James notched 48 points with 9 rebounds and 7 assists, scoring 29 of Cleveland's last 30 points, including the game-winning layup with two seconds left, against the Pistons."

To: "In Game 5 of the NBA Conference Finals, James notched 48 points with 9 rebounds and 7 assists, scoring 29 of Cleveland's last 30 points, including the game-winning layup with two seconds left in a double-overtime game against the Pistons." Yashrajsinha (talk) 10:24, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

 Done—Bagumba (talk) 11:13, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 February 2021

please delete the reference of: "'LeBron' redirects here. For other people with the name, see Lebrón." & "For his son, LeBron James Jr., see Bronny James." Robinyoo9 (talk) 02:00, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Lebron does, in fact, redirect to this article, and it is common for a hatnote to point to other article's a reader may be looking for. RudolfRed (talk) 04:04, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2021

I want to edit this because i'm a huge lebron fan and I know a lot about him. And i can fix mistakes that y'all have made. RDKSKILLZ (talk) 18:27, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:33, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2021

Hassan Sirhandi (talk) 13:22, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Change one of greatest to the greatest

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template.—Bagumba (talk) 13:27, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Muboshgu

Muboshgu You al ways need to explain your reason why you reverted someone. This sparked controversy as many people thought the shooting was justify. In response to the controversial tweet the Cincinnati Bar banned NBA games until LeBron James is 'expelled'. An LAPD officer also responded and said this was putting a target on the officer that shot Ma'Khia Bryant. Where is the bad grammar you claim in text above? I used The Sun and Lakers Daily website as sources not just fox news. what Lebron did, did spark controversy and should be added. I could be wrong an this is why I'm taking this to the talk section. - -- 21TVXQ (talk) 16:36, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

21TVXQ, the shoting was justify and the Cincinnati Bar are ungrammatical. This sparked controversy as many people... is POV. A "Cincinnati Bar" not showing NBA games or what one LAPD officer says is WP:UNDUE / WP:NOTNEWS. Your attempt to add criticism is not in line with actual reactions to LeBron, and is an attempt to add WP:FALSEBALANCE. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:13, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

The Sun is listed as unreliable at WP:RSP.—Bagumba (talk) 00:48, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Muboshgu okay first off all I didn't not spell shooting wrong like you claim in the green text. I thought "Cincinnati Bar" was the name of the bar so that why I write it capitalized. If you red the article the bar got huge support for banning games. Shannon Sharpe, Candace Owens, Black and White sports ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxGitJfQrOY ) and others also responded negatively to his tweet. what Lebron did, did get a huge negative reaction therefore should be added. Once again I could be wrong on this issue but I think it appropriate to add to show it got a negative reaction. Also you keep linking redirects to the same page. Bagumba okay thanks for telling me, I'll try not use them in future. - 21TVXQ (talk) 16:32, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 May 2021

Los Angeles Lakers still haven't won the 2020-21 Season, so in the stats and achievements section, the green highlighting made regarding 2020-21 season suggesting that the Lakers have won the Championship should be removed. 2405:201:A004:5079:94D7:813A:2AD6:9962 (talk) 16:25, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

 Already done ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 17:24, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2021

change "in debates over the greatest basketball player ever." to "in debates over the greatest basketball player of all time." Victorm062 (talk) 04:19, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Why? That seems to just be extra wording that adds no value. Bsoyka (talk · contribs) 04:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2021 (2)

Please change this section: During his second stint in Cleveland, he began opting out and re-signing on new contracts after each season in order to take advantage of higher salaries resulting from the NBA's rising salary cap. In 2016, he signed with the Cavaliers on a three-year deal, becoming the highest-paid player in the league for the first time in his career.

To this: During his second stint in Cleveland, based on a negotiation strategy devised by NBA agent Mark Termini, who worked with Paul and specialized in contract negotiation and construction, James began opting out and re-signing on new contracts after each season in order to take advantage of higher salaries resulting from the NBA's rising salary cap. In 2016, he signed with the Cavaliers on a three-year deal, becoming the highest-paid player in the league for the first time in his career.

Here is the source for this change: https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/2016/08/cleveland_cavaliers_have_terry_62.html Madrid0493 (talk) 22:56, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details.  A S U K I T E  01:42, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2021

The following line has to be removed. “His father, Anthony McClelland, has an extensive criminal record and was not involved in his life.” There is no solid evidence of McClelland being his father, and LeBron nor his mother have ever openly revealed who his father really is. The source used to support this “fact” is an article from 2003. It is unreliable and very misleading; It must be looked at. I can’t understand how a page like Wikipedia can easily put out false information about someone so popular. 184.144.106.13 (talk) 23:00, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: The Guardian is a solid source. Unless you can present a conflicting more recent source, this likely isn't going to be removed. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 01:28, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

They say that Lebrun was 24 on rockets but I don’t believe that!

ANTHONY MCCLELLAND IS NOT HIS FATHER. IT IS NOT CONFIRMED, BUT IS MOST LIKELY ROLAND BIVINS. SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUOfQ0IJHNg— Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.54.234.71 (talk) 19:13, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. As stated above, The Guardian is a reliable source. You'll need to establish consensus about the source you provided.—Bagumba (talk) 19:24, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

It should be mentioned he was a possible candidate for the 2022 Ohio Senate race

On the main article, it shows him as a declined Democratic candidate, so it should at least be mentioned here— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.229.34.37 (talk) 06:07, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

No, per WP:NOTDIARY—Bagumba (talk) 09:52, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 July 2021

Original: "James invests heavily in his health. He has a heavy exercise regimen, and dietary habits that are atypical for a top athlete."

Change Suggested: "James invests heavily in his health. Reportedly having spent $1.5 million a year to pay for personal chefs and trainers, as well as physical recovery therapies. He has a heavy exercise regimen, and his dietary habits that are atypical for a top athlete. Tristan Thompson been quoted claiming James eats desserts with every meal, and Kyle Korver claims James' fitness routine is unrivalled."

Reason & Source: Sourced from the same article: https://www.menshealth.com.au/lebron-james-dirty-diet. The original Wiki statement suggests that his money is spent exclusively on health and nutrition, whereas the article has contradicting statements; describing his diet as the "worst f***ing ever", for example. The modified statement better explains his unique habits compared to other athletes. Kendall Rosen (talk) 20:24, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

 Done ––FORMALDUDE^(talk) 22:08, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

 Note: Lightly copyedited and implemented as follows:

James invests heavily in his health, reportedly having spent $1.5 million a year to pay for personal chefs and trainers, as well as physical recovery therapies. He has a heavy exercise regimen and dietary habits that some consider atypical for a top athlete. Tristan Thompson stated that James eats desserts with every meal. Kyle Korver claims James' fitness routine is unrivaled.

References

King James

"King James" should not be in bold in the lede. It's a nickname for him, but it's not a universally-used name like "Magic" Johnson or "Tiny" Archibald. Most people just call him by his actual name. 2600:1702:6D0:5160:BD90:AAFE:6CB:2B61 (talk) 03:19, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Someone changed it.—Bagumba (talk) 04:01, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

LeBron James reached a NBA Top Shots record sale

On January 19 2021 a NBA Top Shots-collecting card featuring LeBron James was sold for 47,500 US$.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:2455:460:2400:1d5a:9495:bb8f:8a90 (talk) 20:16, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

References

Draft

Delete the following, it is incorrect: "Following the loss, James unsuccessfully petitioned for a change to the NBA's draft eligibility rules in an attempt to enter the 2002 NBA draft."— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:5450:44f0:7087:e7f8:1e76:fea0 (talk) 23:43, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Correction needed. LeBron the only player to win championships with 3 different NBA teams is not factual.

Robert Horry won 2 rings with Houston, 3 with the Lakers and 2 with the Spurs.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8081:4e01:b00:34d1:ac86:623a:d534 (talk) 20:40, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2021

Ajjjjbjkk (talk) 22:55, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Requested change not clear. Greyjoy ^talk 22:56, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2021

• LeBron James off the court due to covid-19 protocol Hasi j (talk) 21:18, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:23, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2022

the last line of the regular season stats should be 2021-22, not 2020-21 Ksl871 (talk) 05:51, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Generally, stats table for WikiProject NBA are not updated until the end of the season.—Bagumba (talk) 07:01, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Chsleggett10.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nicholas343.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2019 and 12 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rayray411.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 January 2022

Addition made to Television Filmography: LeBron James voices himself in a 2011 episode of "The Cleveland Show" S2 E13: A Short Story and a Tall Tale. Sources below.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/fl-xpm-2011-02-10-sfl-lebron-james-dwyane-wade-cleveland-show-story.html https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1641167/ 2600:1005:B02E:7475:9529:BEAC:8F45:FE22 (talk) 06:58, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for pointing this out. OccultSlolem (talk) 20:47, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

LeBron James

Lebron James is a American professional basketball player. 221.124.77.122 (talk) 06:52, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes.—Bagumba (talk) 07:31, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2022

lebron james is a famous tiktok trend 2603:300C:1403:3C00:64AA:6455:D810:4231 (talk) 15:18, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:23, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on February 15, 2022

becoming the first team in NBA history to come back from a 3–1 series deficit in the Finals.

should become

becoming the first and only team in NBA history to come back from a 3–1 series deficit in the Finals.

or

becoming the only team in NBA history to come back from a 3–1 series deficit in the Finals.

More descriptive, and more precise.

(Thiccofferman (talk) 16:38, 15 February 2022 (UTC))

Lebron James

Lebron James sr is really Lebron James jr and I have video proof with him stating his entire name during a high school tournament to be Lebron James jr 2600:1700:2534:1010:F0CE:4303:8725:3C7 (talk) 16:12, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2022

He isn’t 37 years old he is 38!!!! 2A01:598:D03F:F573:ADAE:98CE:5A6D:A501 (talk) 12:40, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: If you'll do the math based on his birthdate of 12/30/1984, you'll find he is indeed 37. General Ization ^Talk 12:43, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Lebron

He owns 2% stake in Liverpool fc worth over £100 million in today’s market 2A00:23C7:7B1E:1:7874:94FA:A436:87E3 (talk) 19:23, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

WP:RS, WP:CITE under WP:BLP? A09090091 (talk) 20:08, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2022

Change: "He has featured in books..." To: "He has been featured in books..." Harry7771 (talk) 14:04, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

 Done - FlightTime (open channel) 14:09, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request -- Aug 10, 2022

Under "Personal Life," it states that "James declared Bryant the best player in the NBA . . ."

There isn't enough context (outside of being a knowledgeable basketball fan) for readers to recognize "Bryant." It should be changed to "Kobe Bryant." 199.108.124.252 (talk) 17:16, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done this is how we phrase names in articles. We do not use first and last. PRAXIDICAE🌈 17:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Excessive detail

Good morning. I believe that this article is starting to suffer from being overly detailed. The "Off the court" section in particular reads like a list of everything that James has ever said and done. My proposal is that each sub-section (Personal life, Business interests, Public image) be significantly trimmed down to be relevant. For example, instead of including a fully bullet-pointed list of Akron endeavors, we can probably summarize in a single sentence that James has many Akron endeavors. I am open to discussing specific restructuring plans; otherwise, I will simply be be bold. I am hoping though that people have some ideas for how to clean things up (or maybe you disagree with me entirely, which is fine too). Cheers!--Ktmartell (talk) 13:14, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

@Ktmartell: Perhaps then a separate article is called for, such as Public image of LeBron James or Personal life of LeBron James, if all the material included is notable enough and relevant enough for inclusion, even under the heaviest scrutiny against WP policies and guidelines.

Because I do agree that it seems excessively long for someone who’s primary source of notability is tied to being a basketball player. Mrbeastmodeallday (talk) 06:41, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Or if none of those topics individually are enough for a standalone article, they could be conglomerated into an article titled something to the effect of LeBron James outside of basketball with sections like “public image”, “personal life”, and “business career”. Or Business and personal life of LeBron James, just some suggestions. Mrbeastmodeallday (talk) 06:45, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Note that at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jabari Parker's high school career, the consensus was that we didn't need to get into excessive detail with a spin out of that bio.—Bagumba (talk) 08:44, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

If anyone wants to go ahead and spin off a different article, please feel free. For now though, I kind of based the structure of this article on the Michael Jordan one and split out both "Activism" and "Media figure and business interests" into their own sections. I also added sub-sections to "Media figure and business interests". Tomorrow, I'll try to start consolidating things within sections and cleaning stuff up. There are a lot of 1-3 sentence paragraphs and just random stuff everywhere (the most egregious offender being a section with just a bullet point list of Akron endeavors).--Ktmartell (talk) 18:48, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2022

LeBron James is considered to be one of the most influential athletes of this generation. Ng624 (talk) 22:04, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:10, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

"LeGM" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect LeGM and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 16#LeGM until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. MB 01:14, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Is James' inclusion in MultiVersus relevant to this page?

I noticed that this article doesn't even mention MultiVersus, which, if you don't know, is a platform fighter that LeBron is featured as a playable fighter in (although, he's credited to come from Space Jam: A New Legacy). Is this due to an error, or because it isn't relevant to the article?

Cheers, SpiderBreadIRL (talk) 20:53, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Media and Culture Theory - MDC 254

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Brandonbond1204 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Brandonbond1204 (talk) 13:36, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 November 2022

205.167.54.65 (talk) 18:02, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

hi plz let me edit

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Cannolis (talk) 18:07, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Help with table edit

Hi, the table is autogenerated, and as such, really unwieldy to edit. Could someone make the change to LeBron James' career-high points per game in the "Career Statistics" subheader table? It is currently set to the wrong year(07-08). While he did average 30.0 points per game that year, in the last NBA season he topped that by 0.3 points a game, making that his career-high. This data is already reflected on all related articles, including the stats tables, but it is simply not marked correctly here. ~~~ Rananth0207 (talk) 13:19, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

2007–08 is marked because he was the league's leading scorer, not because it was a career-high, which would be 2005–06. Refer to the legend for the table. Also, the table is not autogenerated; editors need to provide the numbers manually.—Bagumba (talk) 13:28, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

apologies, I misread the table Rananth0207 (talk) 16:19, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 December 2022

"The team was unable to recover and failed to qualify for the postseason, marking the first time that James missed the playoffs since 2005 and the first time that he failed to reach the Finals since 2010." should be changed to 2011 not 2010, as the 2010 finals were between the lakers and celtics. 213.243.232.99 (talk) 14:30, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

 Partly done: I've removed everything after "2005" because it's not found in the source; thank you for catching the error. Feel free to find a source which explicitly supports the 2011 figure and reopen the request. Ovinus (talk) 21:29, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

"King James (person)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect King James (person) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 January 7 § King James (person) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. —Bagumba (talk) 15:58, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2023

CHANGE "and in 2022 became the first and only player in NBA history to accumulate over 10,000 career points, rebounds, and assists.[7]" TO "and in 2022 became the first and only player in NBA history to accumulate over 30,000 career points, 10,000 rebounds, and 10,000 assists.[7]" 2600:1700:6444:4200:E405:8E84:D416:1810 (talk) 03:44, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Not done, the article says that 10k-10k-10k is also unique: "It’s not just that no player has ever accumulated 30,000 points, 10,000 rebounds and 10,000 assists in their career – since only seven players have ever reached 30,000 points. Even if we drop the scoring threshold to 10,000 points, there is still not another player in NBA history to reach the career triple-quintuple (10K-10K-10K)." --Mvqr (talk) 13:47, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

He looks too sad in this picture

Bring back happy Lebron. Somarain (talk) 21:01, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2023

Please remove this sentence:

James owns another home in Brentwood, which he purchased for $23 million in December 2017.

and replace it with this one:

James purchased another home in Brentwood in December 2017 for $23 million.

The source dates from 2017. It's good for saying when he bought this house for this much, but it's not good for saying whether he still owns it in 2023. 108.17.85.154 (talk) 20:54, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

 Done Lightoil (talk) 02:07, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

LeBron James Defensive Player of the Year

Replace "He has been named an All-Star 19 times, selected to the All-NBA Team 18 times (including 13 First Team selections), and to the All-Defensive Team six times, and was a runner-up for the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award in 2013." with "He has been named an All-Star 19 times, selected to the All-NBA Team 18 times (including 13 First Team selections), the All-Defensive Team six times (including five First Team selections), and was a runner-up for the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award in 2009 and 2013." 175.36.99.100 (talk) 20:14, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

 Already done GiovanniSidwell (talk) 18:08, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2023

Please change "He has been named an All-Star 19 times, selected to the All-NBA Team 18 times (including 13 First Team selections),[2][3] and to the All-Defensive Team six times, and was a runner-up for the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award in 2013." to "He has been named an All-Star 19 times, selected to the All-NBA Team 18 times (including 13 First Team selections)[2][3] and the All-Defensive Team six times, and was a runner-up for the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award in 2009 and 2013."

Slight grammar change re: All-NBA team & All-Defensive teams so that it reads smoother; also adding that he finished runner-up to Defensive Player of the Year in 2009 as well. Kagstheoneandonly (talk) 22:42, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

 Already done GiovanniSidwell (talk) 18:08, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

References

Michael Jordan Comparison in 2nd Line is Too Soon

Please remove the part about often being compared to Michael Jordan as best player as the second line.

Wikipedia and the summary should first serve as presenting the facts about him. It too quickly brings an opinion to the article and shouldn’t have Michael Jordan mentioned in the second line. Even if wanted to say he is considered by some to be best player, without Michael Jordan being named directly, and then have some sources it would be better. Some say Michael Jordan isn’t who he is compared against. Other articles like Kareem’s are better with regard to the legacy part. A blurb later or at end of the line is ok, but the second line? 209.170.75.0 (talk) 23:42, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

The statement is well sourced, and being considered the goat is certainly one of the most notable things about James. Kareem (generally) isn't. However, if you want to get more input I would recommend opening a RfC to improve visibility. GiovanniSidwell (talk) 18:11, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Suggestions for Statistics

The statistics section seems a bit basic compared to other sources (NBA/Basketball Reference). I feel that the page would benefit from listing some more advanced stats, such as including more advanced stats, such as RAPTOR player ratings, offensive and defensive team rankings, box plus minus, as well as per 36 minute and per 100 possession stats for both regular season and playoffs. Redrover3783 (talk) 17:55, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Generally, WP:NOTSTATS applies for non-basic stats. There's generally links to those sites at the "External links" section.—Bagumba (talk) 01:01, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2023

Delete the extraneous word by changing the sentence "He came come off the bench for just the second time in his career; the other being in 2007" to "He came off the bench for just the second time in his career; the other being in 2007" Molloyd (talk) 17:15, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done – Muboshgu (talk) 17:17, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2023

2023 Playoffs 1st round against grizzlies 97.94.36.146 (talk) 14:48, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Callmemirela 🍁 14:54, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2023

Please add "James converted on his first eight three-point field goal attempts through three quarters, setting a new record for the most three-point field goals made in a 60-point game. Stephen Curry later accomplished the feat in 2021. James also set the record for most points in a single game while wearing a mask." after the sentence "On March 3 of the 2013–14 season, James scored a career-high and franchise-record 61 points in a game against the Charlotte Bobcats." 2603:8000:8500:38F2:74F6:CE1B:1E4E:6697 (talk) 18:55, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done Tantomile (talk) 15:44, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 29 May 2023

Lots of stuff is not spelled correctly Menachem Sherr 29 (talk) 16:38, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.—Bagumba (talk) 16:42, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2023

Under "====2013–2014: Final season in Miami====", please change "On March 3 of the 2013–14 season, James scored a career-high and franchise-record 61 points in a game against the Charlotte Bobcats. James converted on his first eight three-point field goal attempts through three quarters, setting a new record for the most three-point field goals made in a 60-point game. James also set the record for most points in a single game while wearing a mask." to "On March 3 of the 2013–14 season, James scored a career-high and franchise-record 61 points in a game against the Charlotte Bobcats. James converted on his first eight three-point field goal attempts through three quarters, setting a new NBA record for the most three-point field goals made in a 60-point game. James also set the record for most points in a single game while wearing a mask. 2603:8000:8500:38F2:A15E:6FE0:7876:EBB1 (talk) 20:49, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: per MOS:EGG. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:16, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 19 July 2023

Please change "In 2018, James exercised his contract option to leave the Cavaliers and signed with the Lakers, where he won the 2020 NBA championship and his fourth Finals MVP." to "In 2018, after eight consecutive NBA Finals appearances, James exercised his contract option to leave the Cavaliers and signed with the Lakers, where he won the 2020 NBA championship and his fourth Finals MVP." 173.196.222.8 (talk) 19:20, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.

The existing citation for that sentence doesn't support the addition you wish to make. Xan747 (talk) 20:52, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

His Finals appearances from Miami seem trivial to his leaving Cleveland. The consecutive Finals appearance tidbit is worth mentioning the body, if sourced to secondary sources. —Bagumba (talk) 02:18, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 July 2023

Under "==Off the court==," please add a section titled "===Nicknames===" Under "===Nicknames===", please add the the sentence "James' nicknames include King James, LBJ, The Chosen One, Bron-Bron, The Little Emperor, The Akron Hammer, L-Train, and Benjamin Buckets." 2603:8000:8500:38F2:74B6:DC0:7901:3EDF (talk) 16:55, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:49, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Seems like it would be WP:INDISCRIMINATE to list them all.—Bagumba (talk) 06:58, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2023

Please remove reference of “right wing” to Bill Maher in Activism > Politics section regarding Hong Kong. Bill Maher is not a right wing political commentator despite some of his commentary. 72.201.59.214 (talk) 17:25, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done WelpThatWorked (talk) 18:11, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Player Profile For LeBron James

Can someone give more characteristics of LeBron James playing style on the Player Profile heading . Like just update more info on LeBron James JwillWiki454 (talk) 02:05, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 August 2023

Under 2010-11 Year of Media and Fan Scrutiny header, the sentence, "James received the brunt of the criticism for the loss, averaging only three points in fourth quarters in the series and scored just eight points in the deciding Game 6, a game Miami lost by just three." Is factually incorrect, he scored 21 points in the deciding Game 6. Requesting an edit to remove the sentence or correct the point total. 114.134.8.148 (talk) 06:15, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Follow up.

Requesting change of:

"James received the brunt of the criticism for the loss, averaging only three points in fourth quarters in the series and scored just eight points in the deciding Game 6, a game Miami lost by just three."

To:

"James received the brunt of the criticism for the loss, averaging only three points in fourth quarters in the series and scored 21 points in the deciding Game 6, a game Miami lost by just three."

Source: https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201106120MIA.html 114.134.8.148 (talk) 06:23, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done corrected the game. he scored 8 pts in game 4 and lost by 3, whereas he scored 21 in game 6 and lost by 10.

HappyBoi3892 (talk) 06:34, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2023

For the description please correct and say He is widely considered to be one of the greatest players in the history of the sport and considered by many to be the greatest player ever Anonymous7432 (talk) 22:32, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 22:47, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2023

Please change File:LeBron James at GSW.jpg caption "James stands at midcourt during a dead ball on January 16, 2013. On that night, he became the youngest player in NBA history to score 20,000 career points.]]" to "James stands at midcourt during a dead ball on January 16, 2013. On that night, he became the youngest player in NBA history to score 20,000 career points. He would also dish out his 5,000th career assist, making him the only player in NBA history to reach both milestones in the same game.]] 2600:6C4E:400:3C9A:FDDA:558C:784F:C85 (talk) 18:08, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

References

 Not done. The cited source doesn't actually say that, and says Kevin Garnett also has the distinction of having 20,000 points and 5,000 assists. The source says nothing about being the only player to achieve these in the same game. ~Anachronist (talk) 00:36, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2023

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/lebron-james-breaks-nba-scoring-record-set-by-abdul-jabbar

One of Lebron James's iconic nickname is "The Chosen One". James broke the all-time scoring record in points on February 7, 2023. Russell Westbrook passed the ball to the King. Then Lebron faded away over Kenrich Williams and scored one of his most iconic buckets in his career with eleven seconds left in the third quarter against the Oklahoma City Thunder . Before the NBA Preseason starts, James is known to host mini camps in California with his teammates. There the team does offensive, defensive drills and team activates. Sep166 (talk) 00:45, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:21, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on

In LeBron's resume please add "NBA All-Time Leading Scorer" that could be linked to this List of National Basketball Association career scoring leaders Tacoman55l (talk) 01:44, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2023

I just wanted you to edit this and say that at one point Lebron was the youngest in the NBA and the now he is currently the oldest in the NBA as of now. Thanks Ethancbaker2002 (talk) 22:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Shadow311 (talk) 22:32, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2023

Add NBA All-Tournament team selection.

Vidhan.io (talk) 18:11, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 17:04, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

References

Edit to football career

According to an exhibit at the College Football Hall of Fame in Atlanta in which the signed document by LeBron is on display, he signed a National Letter of Intent to play football for Bobby Bowden at Florida State University. Gofsunoles1 (talk) 07:31, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2024

Lebron have 3 rings not 4 2600:100F:B1BF:6176:7C13:FDE8:6F1D:D3BB (talk) 20:21, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. RudolfRed (talk) 21:15, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

bro is stuck in 2016 Scottydaking123 (talk) 03:02, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

NBA In-Season Tournament in Infobox

Saw some back-and-forth editing over this, is there a reason why this wouldn't be in the infobox? It's an official "big" thing now, I see no reason why it wouldn't be there. If there was already a discussion over this I'd appreciate if someone pointed me to it. ULPS ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:39, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

There's a related discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association § In-season tournament in player's infobox —Bagumba (talk) 16:01, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! ULPS ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:50, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

It absolutely should be listed in his accolades section. They hung a banner for it. 2600:1700:23:B810:6DF2:AFD5:2FE5:3523 (talk) 23:04, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2024

LeBron Raymone James is the 'Greatest Basketball Player of All Time.' 2001:569:7F82:E500:503A:BDF7:766:1C7C (talk) 21:39, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 22:14, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2024

I've seen a bunch of players missing accolades because they aren't real. Like jokic missing his western conference MVP. The in season tournament should not be put in lebrons list of accomplishments especially if anthony davis doesnt have it listed and other players are missing bigger awards. MDagrosa63 (talk) 17:44, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: @MDagrosa63: There is a related discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association § In-season tournament in player's infobox, where you can contribute and help to establish consensus.—Bagumba (talk) 18:42, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 March 2024

Add GOAT to description Elove444 (talk) 08:18, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Why? —Bagumba (talk) 14:14, 7 March 2024 (UTC)