Talk:Lionel Messi/Archive 21

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Comparison with Simon Biles?

Interesting how Wiki claims Simon Biles is GOAT but not Messi. For Messi you sill have the "one of the greatest" disclaimer. 2001:569:57B2:4D00:4DBD:AA80:A0C:2B25 (talk) 05:04, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

They play different sports… – PeeJay 19:58, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

That's not the point. The question is why it's appropriate for Wiki to call one the GOAT rather than the other because Messi is as dominant in his sport as Simone is in hers. Imagine having such a low IQ that such a basic analogy goes over your head. 2001:569:57B2:4D00:1453:FC5A:B26F:303 (talk) 23:46, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

You would be well advised to avoid making baseless personal attacks. Continuing to do so could see you blocked from editing further, per WP:NPA. First, the original question was not especially clear, so please don't insinuate that it was. Second, Wikipedia includes information based on what is reported in reliable, secondary sources; if such sources are happy to call Simone Biles the greatest ever to compete in gymnastics, that is what we report. The same is not true of Messi, whose rivalry with Cristiano Ronaldo is well documented and continues to be debated regardless of Messi's recent World Cup win. Imagine thinking that a team title has any bearing on whether an individual should be considered the best ever to play their sport... – PeeJay 00:02, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Reliable, secondary sources do claim Messi's the best ever. Here are some (including opinion pieces):

Goal.com: There is simply nothing left for Messi to achieve. Nothing left to say about him. He's now immortal. He's now the GOAT.

Insider: Lionel Messi cements status as soccer GOAT as Argentina wins thrilling World Cup final

Fox: LIONEL MESSI CEMENTS HIS GOAT STATUS WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM HIS FRIENDS

Gaurdian: More tellingly, it was also a kind of coronation, belatedly, for the greatest footballer of the age, probably of any age, the mooching 35-year-old mobile brain Lionel Messi.

Eurosport: WORLD CUP 2022 FINAL: WIN OR LOSE, ARGENTINA STAR LIONEL MESSI HAS SETTLED THE GOAT DEBATE FOREVER

Mundo Deportivo: La prensa internacional no tiene dudas: Messi ya es el mejor de todos los tiempos

Sports Mole: Lionel Messi cements himself as the greatest of all time

DW: Opinion: World Cup triumph means Messi is now the greatest

ESPN: Why Lionel Messi is the best male athlete of all time

Telegraph: Lionel Messi is the greatest of all time – and like Maradona he will stop at nothing to win World Cup

SI: Now that he’s had an opportunity to lift the World Cup trophy, the soccer world is largely in agreement that Messi is the sport’s greatest player of all time.

Miami Herald: World Cup is over. Debate should be, too. Lionel Messi is the Greatest of All Time

On top of that, there's a huge amount of experts claiming he's the goat (just a sample: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/63964902).

You said that Wikipedie includes information based on what is reported in reliable, secondary sources, so let's see how you're true to your words or whether you once again try to go against sources as your last sentence suggests - because whether you like it or not, reliable sources do think a team title has a bearing on whether an individual should be considered the best. You may not agree with that but no one cares. I believe you should stay away from editing and discussing articles about Messi since you keep pushing your personal biased opinions over what reliable sources say.

Now I don't say the article must say Messi IS the greatest ever since we can probably find a few sources that disagree, but it defintiely should say that he's often considered the greatest ever. 78.45.227.119 (talk) 10:15, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion still needs to be had. Many of these sources are reacting to his recent World Cup win. How many of them will say the same when the dust has settled? – PeeJay 17:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm all for a discussion. First you hinted that reliable sources do not call Messi the greatest ever, so I proved it's not true. Now you're suggesting it's just some emotional reaction to the World Cup. That, however, ignores that many, many experts has already been calling him the greatest ever for years. And that others were saying that he lacks the World Cup to be the greatest ever. These are not some out of the blue proclamations.

The amount of sources calling him THE greatest (and not just one of the greatest) ever is so overwhelming that I really can't see how the article can ignore that. Saying that the World Cup doesn't mean anything or that it's just an overreaction is basically original research. And not a good one. Of course, if people somehow change their mind in the future, then we can change the article again.

And since you deleted my previous comment, I'll repeat my suggestion: "...is considered by many sources to be the greatest player of all time". That 1) reflects the fact that many, many sources do call him the greatest ever (some even say it's a consensus!), 2) leaves his status as an opinion rather than a fact, 3) doesn't "end" the discussion, 4) doesn't deny that some sources might disagree, 5) is in line with the changes agreed and made to the Messi-Ronaldo rivalry article, and 6) is in line with how Wikipedia reports about the greatests of all time in other sports.

Again, this isn't some overreaction to a few people calling him the greatest. Many people called him that in 2012, ten years ago, and we didn't care. This is different - now almost everyone says that. And the sources even say that everyone says that. 78.45.227.119 (talk) 18:53, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

This obviously means a lot to you. Perhaps you should step back and let people with more level heads discuss this. – PeeJay 19:33, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Is this really your reply to my suggestion to improve the article that is backed by sources? It's well known you've been warned and banned repeatedly for your behavior on this site but you still seem to not be able to learn. 78.45.227.119 (talk) 19:48, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

The decision will be taken in time, no need to rush. Calm yourself. – PeeJay 21:12, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm trying to improve the article, you on the other hand have been repeatedly warned for engaging in edit wars in Messi related articles. You're not fooling anyone. 78.45.227.119 (talk) 21:34, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

You don’t know what you’re talking about, clearly. Is it wrong to say Messi has been rated among the greatest players of all time? No. So if we want to change the wording, we can do, there’s just no need to do so just because anonymous user X says we have to. Your attitude is pretty poor, so get a grip. – PeeJay 22:07, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

There's no need to do so just because I say so, but because reliable sources say so. There's certainly no hurry, but there's also no reason for you to try to stop the discussion. I made a suggestion how to improve the article, explained the reasons behind it and provided reliable sources. As you can see, I've never edited the article, I'm just making suggestions. That's all, yet it still somehow makes you angry.

I'm happy to leave my suggestion here for others to read and make up their minds. Now, you either have something constructive to add to the discussion or you don't - and in that case just let it be. Your constant fights, edit wars etc. in Messi related articles aren't helpful. 78.45.227.119 (talk) 12:07, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

I have been vindicated in all of my edits on Messi-related articles. My conduct is unrelated to the content. I have since learned that there is no need to change something that isn't wrong. I'm simply waiting for other editors to add their opinion. You seem to have a pathological need to respond - I would advise against doing so again, especially if you're going to comment on other editors instead of the content itself. – PeeJay 12:10, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

I actually commented primarily on the content itself, your last comment however had nothing to do with the content. Also, you're the one who obsessively responds to everything. Just look at this talk page, you never let anything without a reply (unlike me btw.), you simply cannot help yourself. Hence repeating warnings you got for edit wars. 78.45.227.119 (talk) 11:34, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

And yet here you are again, more than a week later, stirring the pot unnecessarily. Your conduct is verging on harassment now. – PeeJay 16:46, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Just stop replying and that's it. I simply made a proposal how to make the article better, just let it be and wait what other people think about it. No need for your continuing replies. I'm not interested in arguing with you, especially with your history of being warned for insulting other editors here. 78.45.227.119 (talk) 09:32, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't make any sense to call Messi the GOAT, consider that Pele was called the GOAT by multiple outlets and by FIFA, I don't think this World Cup changes that - — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.9.141.71 (talk) 23:12, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Wrong info

Messi has 794 career goals and has it saws he does ent have 700 Gdyjjkjf (talk) 02:42, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Add information about messi hotels & messi store franchises

Hotels & messi store Dr yogejack (talk) 04:20, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 January 2023

Barcelona all-time Top Scorer: (2004-2021)

Ballon d’Or Dream Team (First Team): 2020 Mrsullz (talk) 06:45, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. 💜  melecie  talk - 08:38, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

lionel Messi Wife

The couple tied the knot in a star-studded ceremony in Rosario, Argentina in 2017. They have three children together. Aside from being Lionel Messi wife and mother, Antonella has also built her own. SHAHBAZ MASIH (talk) 21:01, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

@SHAHBAZ MASIH: His name is "Antonela", not "Antonella". ItsMario97 (talk) 00:19, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 January 2023

Current:

La Liga: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2012–13, 2014–15, 2015–16, 2017–18, 2018–19 Copa del Rey: 2008–09, 2011–12, 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17, 2017–18, 2020–21 Supercopa de España: 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2018 UEFA Champions League: 2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2014–15 UEFA Super Cup: 2009, 2011, 2015 FIFA Club World Cup: 2009, 2011, 2015

Change to:

La Liga: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2012–13, 2014–15, 2015–16, 2017–18, 2018–19 Copa del Rey: 2008–09, 2011–12, 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17, 2017–18, 2020–21 Supercopa de España: 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2018 UEFA Champions League: 2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2014–15 UEFA Super Cup: 2009, 2011, 2015 FIFA Club World Cup: 2009, 2011, 2015

For all headings or honours to his name, it differentiates with the year better; as he has so many. In conclusion please bold it. ✨Ashish Legend✨ 07:52, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done with the help of regular expressions. – small jars tc 12:40, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

There isnt consistency between top players listing of official titles

I think Wikipedia should have consistency about how official titles are listed. If in the Pelé article, regional tournaments are listed as official titles, in this article Messi tournaments in Cataluña should be listed too. Why a tournament of the state of Sao Paulo is an official tournament and a tournament of the autonomous community of Catalonia isnt? An autonomous community in Spain has even higher level of independency than a state in Brazil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.2.121.77 (talk) 12:09, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Because those competitions aren't of equivalent standing. The state competitions in Brazil are much more important than the autonomous community competitions ever have been in Spain. – PeeJay 17:02, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Messi's photo

Can we change Messi's photo with the photo with him holding the world cup? Just like Maradona's. EntityRrr (talk) 12:29, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Photo Change

Why not change the photo on the page to the one where Messi holds the World Cup trophy? 2401:4900:8129:8DF6:58B3:96FF:FE6B:A201 (talk) 06:30, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 February 2023

Messi has 817 which makes him the highest-scoring player in football history. 107.223.129.179 (talk) 00:20, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lemonaka (talk) 00:44, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 February 2023 (2)

May I have request to edit this page please and thank you ,I would love to add that he is the goat of football. Phanthers49ers (talk) 18:28, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you. Additionally, the article already states Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time... ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:42, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 February 2023

You have mentioned Lionel’s fathers heritage but have not mentioned Lionel Messi’s mothers heritage which is Lebanese, please have this corrected as this is key information 120.17.235.124 (talk) 14:00, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

All information requires a reliable source. Do you have one? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 14:33, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:35, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 February 2023

The edit I suggest is, if possible, to add his spouse and/or children to his information box at the top section of the page. Lara Cross (talk) 21:52, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:24, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 February 2023

Messi goals scored 802 as of February 19th 2023 Lm2207 (talk) 05:28, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lightoil (talk) 06:54, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 February 2023

I want to change Messi's height to the correct one. 7'2 Johnny Sins7g8re79e (talk) 19:51, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lightoil (talk) 00:27, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 February 2023

Change one of the greatest to Greatest of all time and mention h completed football by winning 2022 world cup in Qatar 165.134.212.75 (talk) 21:49, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 23:13, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 February 2023 (2)

119.160.103.207 (talk) 16:35, 27 February 2023 (UTC) update the messi picture to a new one with which was taken at the worldcup, tgis message was forwarded by football analyst Fabrizio Romano .

Regards, Messi Agent

 Not done for now: Please provide an image with an acceptable license. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:43, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Create page

Create seperate topic for philanthropy & style of play & reception KingBaba99 (talk) 08:03, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Seperate topic for philanthropy & style of play reception KingBaba99 (talk) 08:04, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 March 2023

Please 🙏 change messi photo in this page to one in which messi kisses world cup with golden ball in hand🔴🔴🔴 202.164.137.75 (talk) 12:02, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: Please make your request for a new image to be uploaded to Files For Upload. Once the file has been properly uploaded, feel free to reactivate this request to have the new image used. Lizthegrey (talk) 08:59, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 March 2023

ADD “FIFPro FIFA World11” selections to Honours section just like the one in Kylian Mbappe and Xavi Hernandez’ profiles for example. Messi currently has 16 selections, from 2007-2022. 73.239.83.251 (talk) 09:34, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lizthegrey (talk) 08:02, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

How many Champions League titles has Messi won?

Messi has won the Champions League three times – in 2009, 2011 and 2015 (all with Barcelona). He was also a regular for the Spanish club when they won the trophy in 2006 but was not part of their squad for the final. Shivamrajpuroh (talk) 04:02, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Add media of leo Messi

add media Lionel Messi animated series with Sony in popular culture page Yosur (talk) 11:07, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 March 2023

Widely regarded as the greatest of all time. 95.168.116.42 (talk) 20:56, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

..

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Please remember that Wikipedia is not a forum for exchanging individual opinions. Actualcpscm (talk) 13:52, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 February 2023 (3)

Two suggested changes:

1. In the honours section of the profile card (the one you have to click "show" to unhide it) at the top of the page, it would make more sense to have third places indicated with a label similar to first and second. For example, it could be done with a rectangle with bronze background that says "third place" or "bronze" inside. It makes no sense for only 3rd place results to be stylized as medals. See the Spanish Wikipedia article of Messi for an example of what I'm suggesting.

2. In the honours section at the bottom of the page, it would be good to display runner-ups and or third places obtained by Leo Messi with the Argentine national team right next to the actual wins. For example, with the World Cup it would be done like this:

- FIFA World Cup: 2022; runner-up: 2014.

instead of just this:

- FIFA World Cup: 2022.

as it is at present. This would be in accordance with most other profiles of professional football players, from Sergio Aguero and Lionel Scaloni to Thierry Henry and Harry Kane.

Thank you! Vassalloef (talk) 19:38, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: 1. This seems to be an issue with the templates; as far as I can tell, the English-language medal templates don't have one for 3rd place that fits the style of the other two. Medal||Bronze just puts a B inside the circle, for example. Weird stuff. If you feel like it, you can go down the rabbit-hole and perhaps suggest an addition to the Medal template set.

2. I think given that there is a standalone article on Messi's career achievements, this section does not need to be comprehensive. Also remember that suggestions should be provided in a clear "change X to Y" format, so write out every change you want to be made whenever possible :) Actualcpscm (talk) 09:50, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

How many Champions League titles has Messi won?

« change four UEFA Champions Leagues to Messi has won the Champions League three times – in 2009, 2011 and 2015 (all with Barcelona). He was also a regular for the Spanish club when they won the trophy in 2006 but was not part of their squad for the final » Shivamrajpuroh (talk) 04:13, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lizthegrey (talk) 16:52, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Playing the final doesn't matter. He played 6 matches in 2005-06 champions league scoring 1 goal and thus he was part of the tournament squad and eligible for the medal which he got Alex Emeritus (talk) 15:31, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Supercopa de España 2005

Supercopa de España 2005 should not be included in "honours" section of this article as Lionel Messi was not actually called up for both matches and there is no physical proves that he got a medal for that. NextEditor123 (talk) 07:10, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

when the club itself considers it among his honours then there's no legitimate claim to say otherwise. FIFA, Barcelona and la liga all consider him as having won 35 trophies for Barcelona during 2004-2021 Alex Emeritus (talk) 15:30, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

The statement would be valid if he was at least actually called up to one of the matches or received a medal as a physical evidence. In this case, neither of that actually happened. NextEditor123 (talk) 21:15, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

all news sources and the official club page includes that honour and when Messi left the club all 35 trophies were among the honours won by him. Even AI score counts the 2005 SuperCopa de España Alex Emeritus (talk) 10:09, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Can you actually prove with actual news articles (primary sources) of that time (2005)? Or you are just fanboy like some users see you as? NextEditor123 (talk) 13:24, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Protected

Since the edit-war has continued despite the link to the discussion that I posted above, I have fully protected the article for a week. This should allow plenty of time for a new RfC to be started, which I would suggest takes place at WT:FOOTY for maximum visibility, as the issue does not only affect Messi. Black Kite (talk) 11:45, 18 March 2023 (UTC)