Talk:List of films considered the worst/Archive 11

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You forgot the 1987 Jaws 4: the revenge movie

To the Wikipedia users that run worst movies ever page.

I know a 1987 movie that was considered the worst called "Jaws 4: The Revenge", that alot of movie critics have complained and criticized about. For example Roger Ebert has called the movie "“Jaws the Revenge” is not simply a bad movie, but also a stupid and incompetent one - a ripoff." Also Lenoard Maltin said "Marginal movie really sunk by stupid abrupt finale. Canine wasted in frivolous supporting role." Even the fans of the Jaws complained how boring and stupid it was and even forgot about the movie.

Also I've noticed that the Rotten Tomatoes website rated it 0% and also the critics said the special effects for the shark were sloppy and poorly edited built out of cheap plastic model and criticized the movie on the mistakes it made and complained about the character acting. Also this movie was also considered a franchise killer because after this movie bombed there haven't been anymore Jaws movies made by the Universal Studios company. It is unknown if Jaws can be revived after this Jaws 4 flop.

Anyways I'm not sure if Jaws 4: The Revenge qualifies to be on worst movies ever page on wikipedia. I'll let you decide if you think Jaws 4: The Revenge should be included but I'll leave it up to other wikipedia users if they want it included or not. CrosswalkX (talk) 02:28, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

We've discussed it many times before. It's even been on the list for lengthy periods of time. Ultimately it was removed, and no consensus to include it has ever been established. The only source we could dig up which called it "the worst" was a brief mention in the obituary of the film's composer. We're going to have to do better than that.LM2000 (talk) 02:43, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Wow! Listed on his obituary? The movie was so bad, that they listed it on the dude's obituary?? I haven't seen the film, but that is a pretty awful condemnation. "Today, the composer of the music of the worst film ever made, died." That is just... uncouth and disrespectful. Honestly, I would be in favor of adding it. Since it was so egregiously panned and with the addition of the obituary, I seem to think it could fit. Maybe we could dredge up one other article? Gstridsigne (talk) 07:31, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Wild 90 and The Green Berets

I'm on the fence about Wild 90. Pauline Kael said, "the worst movie that I've stayed to see all the way through...Basically Mailer uses cinéma-vérité methods as a shortcut - a way of making a movie without going to too much effort, and of providing the raw look of 'life'" She went on to say there are worse movies out there, this is just the worst she saw all the way through, so that caveat may be enough to save it from the list. It got quite a lot of harsh reviews as well, but the only other one close to worse it got was a mention in The Golden Turkey Awards, where director Norman Mailer won for Worst Performance by a Novelist.

There's some pretty obvious political issues with The Green Berets (film) but I think there's enough for it to go in. Renata Adler gave the film such a negative review that Strom Thurmond actually addressed it on the floor of the US Senate. Ebert gave it zero stars and put it in his "most hated" list, sidekick Roeper included it in his list of the worst films ever made, and it was featured in Michael Sauter's book. Reading Eagle called it one of the worst ever made.[1] Vincent Korda said that "I do not know how it would be possible to produce a more revolting picture, short of giving Martin Bormann several million dollars to make a Technicolor movie showing that Auschwitz was a wonderful place to live." That's essentially calling it the most revolting picture ever made, which is close.LM2000 (talk) 04:07, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Carry On Columbus

I was just wondering whether this film should belong on the list. The Irish Times review states nothing about it being the worst film ever made, and I'm questioning whether "worst British film ever made" translates into "worst film of all time" (although there are quite a few entries for British films already on the list). What do you guys think? --67.242.156.6 (talk) 01:55, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

As I understand it, while Carry On Columbus is regarded as one of the nadirs of British cinema, I haven't been able to find any RS reference to it being "one of the worst films ever". 176.61.97.121 (talk) 13:08, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

I just wanted to chime in and say that I also support the removal for the reasons stated above. We should probably remove Bio-Dome as well. One critic says it is the worst Hollywood movie ever made, which is close, but in the same league as being the worst of British cinema. The lowest Metacritic score helps its chances, but in the past we haven't counted 0% RT and low Metacritic scores as being equivalent to being the worst ever made.LM2000 (talk) 19:51, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

The Swarm- "Simply the worst film ever made" ?

According to this Guardian article, upon the release of the The Swarm in Britain, the Sunday Times called it "simply the worst film ever made". [2] So it probably qualifies. 176.61.97.121 (talk) 17:46, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

It made it's way into the Official Razzie Movie Guide. Star-News said: "'The Swarm' may not be the worst movie ever made. I'd have to see them all to be sure. It's certainly as bad as any I've seen." I know I've seen it listed in other places, but these three sources should be adequate for inclusion now.LM2000 (talk)

Oh, it was in The Golden Turkey Awards too.LM2000 (talk) 02:01, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

That's My Boy

Shouldn't be there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.144.32.73 (talk) 23:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Professional reviews cited in the article say it should. Why do you say it shouldn't? - SummerPhD (talk) 00:13, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

The Starving Games is the Worst Film in 2013

Can you add The Starving Games it have 0% on Review aggregation in Rotten Tomatoes. Joe Leydon of Variety called it a "stillborn spoof" and "desperately unfunny". Scott Foy of Dread Central rated it 1.5/5 stars and wrote, "The printed word cannot fully express my dismay at having experienced this latest alleged comedy". Gabe Torio of Indiewire wrote that the film "is as terrible as you think it is". Max Nicholson of IGN called it "a horrible, horrible piece of cinema that needn't be watched by any person ever." Fred Topel of Crave Online rated it 1.5/10 and called it "more of the same, only worse." So you can add this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.223.65.64 (talk) 08:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Sounds pretty bad, but we need reliable sources directly calling it the worst film ever. - SummerPhD (talk) 18:10, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

The Cat in the Hat is the Worst Film in History

Can you Add The Cat in the Hat as the Worst Film, This Film is make a Dr. Seuss Film a Kill. It Reward like Seven of Them, That will to make it not a success. That Rhyme in the Book is the Best, But that Film base on the Same Name is the Worst. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.223.65.64 (talk) 09:23, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

No, we need sources. (You seem to not read responses to your questions.) - SummerPhD (talk) 14:30, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

A Beautiful Life (2008 film)

I am shocked, shocked, I tell you, that this film is not included in this list! O the shame! Bearian (talk) 16:37, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

I can see there's a 0% Rotten Tomatoes score, but did any of the reviews explicitly call it out as "the worst film of all time"? --McGeddon (talk) 17:06, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Who made this page? This is just idiotic

You guys make a list of films, that are named in some... magazines or newspapers, as the worst... Those articles were written by people, people like the guy that made a statement about hunger games, above me... WHAT makes the opinion of those 100 year old reviews more reliable then the people that write HERE? Some of the movies listed are AWESOME, and some of the worst movies ever are just missing. Just google "worst director ever" and you will find a guy named Uwe Boll. Where are ALL HIS MOVIES for example? Every single one is 1000 times worse then what's combined here. Also, where is that movie that was in like... every movie store, where the homeless men get abducted by aliens, and suddenly, them barfing, makes women horny? ALSO not here. Whoever made this idiotic list, you know shit about bad movies. Btw... could also tell you 1000 sites that say that the Twilight saga sucks, why is it not here?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.181.214.52 (talk • contribs) 05:05, April 28, 2014‎

Information on Wikipedia is based on what independent reliable sources say. (If you are not familiar with what Wikipedia considers to be "reliable sources", you'll need to read that link.) There are people who say the Apollo Moon landings were fake, the queen of England is a reptilian alien from outer space, you don't need vitamin B12 to live and other such nonsense. Reliable sources say differently. Pick a movie, any movie. Somewhere out there, there is someone who thinks it is "the worst". If we based this list on what just anyone says, the list would be endless and worthless. Instead, we limit the list to what reliable sources have to say. For movie reviews, that generally mean professional movie reviews, not someone ranting on Facebook, reddit or their blog. There are substantially fewer professional reviewers and they are generally trying to assess whether or not most people will like a film. A few of them agreeing that a film is "the worst" ever is far more meaningful than a thousand anonymous bloggers saying "Worst. Film. Evr." (Actual critical reaction for the Twilight films: mixed to negative. Compare Manos: Hands of Fate (1966): " The film has a 0% rating at Rotten Tomatoes, and Entertainment Weekly says the movie is 'widely regarded as, quite simply, the worst movie ever made.'") - SummerPhD (talk) 12:07, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

"Just google "worst director ever" and you will find a guy named Uwe Boll. Where are ALL HIS MOVIES for example?"

Did you not notice Boll's Alone In the Dark is on the list? 176.61.97.121 (talk) 14:26, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Foodfight! (again) and incorrect info from William09181

On Talk:Foodfight!, I've listed my objections to @William09181:'s incorrect info (basically, he's adding his opinion, misrepresenting what IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes are reporting, etc. I'm up against 3RR on this. Anyone else care to handle this? - SummerPhD (talk) 16:37, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Keep an eye out for meat/sockpuppetry. I removed similar claims left by IP 69.137.32.46 last month.LM2000 (talk) 17:00, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Bio-Dome

I've mentioned this one in passing but never received any response so I was WP:BOLD and just removed it. The only thing that calls it the worst specifies that it was the worst Hollywood film, as the above discussion on non-US films shows this isn't enough for inclusion. RT, Metacritic, and the like aren't enough.LM2000 (talk) 20:03, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

The Hottie and the Nottie

No source in the entry calls it the worst. The only thing that comes close is its listing at the bottom of IMDb, but since that is a user-voted metric, I believe that it is inadmissible. So, I am going to remove it. However, the other entry added, Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot, seems to fit the criteria. So, I will leave that entry. Gstridsigne (talk) 15:18, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

The Last Airbender

How should we mention the fact that actors of Asiatic Indian, Middle Eastern, and South Asian descent were cast to play characters of East Asian descent concisely, accurately, and respectfully? Not all of the actors were of Asiatic Indian descent. (I might add the fact that I prefer person-first language, but understand if others do not adhere to such language.) Gstridsigne (talk) 15:28, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Showgirls

Showgirls was never called "the worst film ever made" so I Removed it. Troydevinny545.

I've seen sources in the past that call it one of the worst ever. I'll do some digging to see if I can find them again. Until then, I agree, its previous entry wasn't sufficient.LM2000 (talk) 20:18, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

American Bias

This page is hugely biased. The only films listed are all from America. Either this page be renamed to 'Worst American/Hollywood Films' or it be substantially expanded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.2.39.81 (talk) 05:52, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Did you actually read the list? No Orchids for Miss Blandish and Fire Maidens from Outer Space are from the UK, Amanti and Troll 2 are Italian, Ha-Tempist is Isreali, Dünyayı Kurtaran Adam is Turkish, Things is Canadian, Le Jour et la Nuit is French, Cinderela Baiana is Brazilian, Parting Shots and Sex Lives of the Potato Men are also from the UK, Daniel – Der Zauberer is German, Aag is a Bollywood film. Some of them are from multiple countries; Inchon is South Korean and American, Highlander 2 is French and British, Baby Geniuses 2 is British and American, and Showgirls is American and French. Do you have any constructive suggestions on non-Hollywood films that are left out?LM2000 (talk) 06:04, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

It's not exclusively American, but it is biased - almost inevitably so, due to the user-base of the English language Wikipedia.

In this article: 48 US films / 65 total = 74% So almost 3/4 of the movies on this list are American.

When you consider how many countries in the world have a national film industry, and that Nigeria produces over double the movies a year of the US, as does India, it would certainly indicate bias. As I mentioned before, this is bound to be down to the homogeny of the user-base here; mostly from countries with English as a first language (Majority US, with many UK users, Australian, Canadian, Irish etc. also in the mix), mostly consuming English-language movies and referencing English-language websites.

There are many, many articles on Wikipedia that have a US bias for the same reasons. You'll find an equivalent bias on the other language versions of Wikipedia. It's up to us to try and reflect a world view, but we have to except the limitations that comes with a majority American user-base. Åéîøü (talk) 22:46, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

The biases of users may play a factor, but I tend to think that this topic has a US bias in general. The majority of the books written on the subject focused on American films. Here's a Brazilian book on worst films, even that list is dominated by US films. I once spent a few hours looking for sources on one Swiss film, I can't recall which one at this point (it's been awhile), all of the sources kept referring to it as the "worst Swiss film", which is close but because it narrows in on a specific country without comparing it to all of worst cinema it couldn't go in. I'm sure that Nigerian cinema sources aren't much different. I'm not sure why that's the way things are, but I've found that to be the case time and time again. OP's initial point that this list should be moved to 'Worst Hollywood Films' is still invalid as there are too many non-American films for such a move to take place. If you have any suggestions on non-US films that are left out then I am legitimately interested.LM2000 (talk) 19:08, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

It may be worth pointing here out that the book British Comedy Cinema, edited by I.Q. Hunter and Laraine Porter, has a brief section by Hunter discussing the question "What is the worst British film ever made?" (p. 154). The nominations include Fire Maidens from Outer Space, Gonks Go Beat, Slave Girls, Parting Shots, Fat Slags, Pimp, Zombie Undead, Ali G Indahouse, and Sex Lives of the Potato Men. 176.61.97.121 (talk) 20:32, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Also consider Santa Claus (1959 film) (Mexico) and Titanic: The Legend Goes On (Italian). Titanic is considered the worst movie ever made by Total Film and is always on IMDB bottom 100. Problem is that IMDB isn't reliable and one source isn't enough.LM2000 (talk) 23:11, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't think this article is biased. Perhaps the other nations make higher quality films. In Correct (talk) 03:17, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

"universally panned by critics"

Yes, RT says that low scores (some of them higher than zero) signify "universally panned" or some such. That's fine. They can say that a score of 37.206% signifies "starring George Clooney in a low-cut purple dress". (In fact, I'm going to send them an email suggesting that. Watch for it.) However, Wikipedia cannot say that any film was "universally" anything-ed. A film that was "universally panned by critics" was panned by EVERY critic, not merely all (or the vast majority) of the critics tracked by RT. - SummerPhD (talk) 17:31, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

I completely understand that. However, the change you made to The Last Airbender was a quote, not a statement. David Onda of Comcast wrote that The Last Airbender was universally panned, not the Wikipedia community. Gstridsigne (talk) 00:45, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

A mistake on my part. Good catch. - SummerPhD (talk) 01:49, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

No problem! :) Gstridsigne (talk) 11:24, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Similar problem with your removal of a similar statement from Dis, sources claim critics panned it unanimously. This is verifiable and, like the Airbender source, doesn't fall under WP:OR.LM2000 (talk)

Alone in the Dark?

I see it's been removed from the list, but I'm not sure it should.

Peter Hartlaub in the San Francisco Chronicle called Alone in the Dark "the best Ed Wood movie ever made…a film so mind-blowingly horrible that it teeters on the edge of cinematic immortality." Hartlub is writing for a reliable source, and his claim that the film is "so mind-blowingly horrible" that people will always remember it for its poor qualities, is basically saying, that AITD is "one of the worst films ever". 176.61.97.121 (talk) 12:46, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

The inclusion criteria for this article is that a film is explicitly described as "among the worst films ever made" by "multiple reputable sources". A single review isn't enough, and in any case this one only goes as far as saying that Alone "teeters on the edge" of being legendarily bad. --McGeddon (talk) 12:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Ok, fair enough. 176.61.97.121 (talk) 12:58, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, I personally think the film should be included. There are quite a few reliable sources declaring it as one of the worst films, such as Rotten Tomatoes (Where it holds a 1%), Entertainment Weekly (Where it was given an F grade), and I'm sure quite a few others. --MaxOfTheDead (talk) 01:55, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Those are bad scores, but nothing from them indicates that they're considered the worst of all time. This list is for the worst of the worst.LM2000 (talk) 02:05, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Based on critical reaction alone, I don't think it should have been removed. Just look at a Wayback Machine crawl for this page and you'll find plenty of evidence. Also, some other entrants (like That's My Boy) do have their outspoken critics, but TMB, by comparison, got much better reviews on the whole. Theskinnytypist (talk) 00:41, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

I am the culprit who deleted the entry for Alone in the Dark. At the time I deleted it, there was no reliable critic sourced as having called it "the worst film ever." Not only that, but there was no source at all calling it the worst film ever. With That's My Boy, though perhaps it "got much better reviews on the whole," the film was called by a reliable critic source "the worst film ever." That is the criteria for being listed on this page. It really has nothing to do with artistic or cultural merit, or even how bad the reviews are; the only criteria is that a reputable critic call it the worst. Both Mommie Dearest and I Spit on Your Grave both have entries on this list without an even majority of critics giving it negative reviews; in both cases, over half the critic reviews (55%) that have been collected via Rottentomatoes gave the films positive reviews. I, personally, do not think those films should be included, but they have both been called by reputable critic sources as the "worst film[s] ever made" by reputable critics (in both cases, multiple reputable critics). Personally, I feel both I Spit on your Grave and Mommie Dearest might be on the list for "the wrong reason" so to speak, either because of knee-jerk reactions from critics (in the case of Mommie Dearest's initial release) or axe-grinding responses from critics (in the case of Roger Ebert's hatred of I Spit on your Grave). Both films have managed to remain historically and culturally relevant because of their artistic merit alone; though their infamy precedes them, neither are nearly as bad as their [initial] critical response would lead you to believe they are. MANY critics do feel both films are actually GOOD films (and not ironically, or "so-bad-their-good" films). But, per the criteria of this page, they are listed, because they meet the criteria. Alone in the Dark does not (yet). If a reputable critic calls it "the worst film ever made," then it deserves to be readded, but until such a source is found, it doesn't.

The only problem that I have with this system is that it basically becomes a "hunt," or even more accurately, a "witch-hunt." I am sure that we can find a reputable critic source that calls Titanic, Casablanca, The Godfather, and Citizen Kane the worst films ever committed to celluloid. I HOPE (personally) that we could find reputable critic sources calling Inception, 300, and Avatar the worst films ever (I hated all of them). I will be honest, I am also the editor who found the reputable sources for The Last Airbender and rallied for its inclusion (after years and years of pleading and outrage against it, and a shear reluctance of the community on this page to budge on the issue), and added it to the article. To be honest, it took me quite a lot of time and research to find the articles that listed it as "the worst." But I was determined to find them, because I just HATED that film so much (it is by far, the worst film I have ever seen, and I think far worse than any of the other films on this list! I have seen quite a few of the films on this list, and none come close to the torture of watching The Last Airbender).

So, after all that, the story is, if you want it added, find a reputable critic source explicitly calling it the "worst film ever made." You can do it, I believe in you.

P.S. I have edited under a few IP addresses before registering with this account. I think many of those edits were under my old IP address. Gstridsigne (talk) 11:10, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

I added Alone back. I found even more reviews, but I don't think they're needed unless someone thinks what is currently there isn't sufficient.

Your digging up reliable sources Airbender on there. Movies which have no "worst" sources can't get on the list. Even if you dig up some that do, it's no guarantee we'll include it. Unless something crazy happens, acclaimed films like Incepiton and Avatar won't ever be on this list. Airbender was panned from the start, every discussion we had before it went in provided a plethora of sources calling it the worst of the decade or even the worst of several decades, but it lacked the "worst ever". Mommie Dearest and I Spit on Your Grave had loud critics screaming "worst" from the very start and it tarnished their reputations... There's a big difference between that some hack critic labeling Casablanca the worst film ever seven decades after the fact. The intro to the article reads: "The films listed below have been cited by reputable critics in multiple reputable sources as among the worst films ever made." Titanic was voted as the worst movie ever in a 2003 BBC poll. Yet we don't list Titanic because it was a highly acclaimed film and while some critics might not have liked it as much as others, no critic worth a damn would put it in the same category as Plan 9, Ishtar, and Troll 2. Also, that's and Audience poll, hence not a reliable source. It's the same reason why Twilight isn't in this list despite topping a Rifftrax poll awhile ago.

I'd also like to thank you for creating an account here on wikipedia. A lot of IPs regularly edit this article and do a great job doing so. There are a number of benefits when it comes to having an account if you're a regular editor here and I'd highly recommend that you all get one.LM2000 (talk) 08:34, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Please forgive my confusion. I understand completely why the acclaimed films are not listed, and I was never advocating their inclusion. I even stated in my examination that multiple reputable sources viewed ISoYG and Mommie Dearest poorly, and yes, even the worst movie ever made. It is just difficult for me to consider these films as having a consensus with critics when over half of the critics reviewing them reviewed them fondly and favorably (that is not consensus, that is not even a simple majority of critical analysis that calls the films "bad," let alone "the worst"). But the criteria for inclusion does not include the concept of "consensus." The criteria for inclusion is that multiple reputable critic sources call the film "the worst," which occurred with these films, so therefore, they should be included. So, though I perhaps disagree with the criteria for inclusion, I also understand Wikipedia is a community, and we must come to a consensus on what fits the criteria and what does not, and that community has determined the criteria. I also know (and understand) why audience polls are not included. Audience polls are easily manipulated and statistically inaccurate. I work in neuroscience, so this is no news to me, and I agree that they should not be included. Just for the sake of clarity, I am not trying to include acclaimed films on the list (they do not belong here); I was just trying to make a point that the criteria maybe somewhat flawed. I am not even advocating that we change the criteria either, however. I was just pointing out my criticisms of the criteria, to try to make the criteria potentially better. Perhaps, these arguments concerning criteria would be less frequent if we change the name of the list from "List of films considered the worst," (which sounds definitive) to "List of films that have been considered the worst ever made," (which is a more accurate description of what this list is, and less definitive)? That is merely a suggestion, and I am not even arguing for its change.

Those issues, however, are not where my confusion lies. My confusion lies with your first sentence in the second paragraph of your response: "Your digging up reliable sources Airbender on there." I rarely correct other people's grammar, but I really don't understand what you are trying to say here. Did you use the wrong form of "you're?" Even then, the sentence doesn't make much sense to me. I am truly sorry, and am not trying to embarrass or belittle you (many of us, even the most vigilant of "grammar Nazis," make grammar mistakes. Language, especially English, creates a pretty fertile soil for those mistakes), but could you please clarify what you were trying to convey? Also, do you think that The Last Airbender still deserves inclusion, or have you changed your opinion? Gstridsigne (talk) 22:11, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I typed that up before sleeping and ended up leaving out one essential word, "PUT". Your finding of sources put Airbender on the list. It was refused entry a number of times because the participants in favor of it going in never bothered to find such sources, their personal opinion would fall under WP:OR. The sources still favor Airbender's inclusion, so I see no problem with it being on the list. We've also discussed potential name changes to the article in the past. This title has always irked me a little, but better sounding titles tend to be less accurate or too long. Thanks for the reply and thanks for letting me know I forgot to put put there.LM2000 (talk) 00:33, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying, that makes more sense to me now. Gstridsigne (talk) 11:27, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Home on the Range

I Don't Know if This fits as ""The Worst Movie Ever Made", but a Number of People has called this "The WORST Disney film ever". I Have seen This film and I Agree. This is the Worst Disney Movie I Have Ever Seen. Again, I Don't Think this film was considered "The Worst Ever".

If you know if This was actually "The Worst Film Ever", let me know. Troydevinny545 06/14/14 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Troydevinny545 (talk • contribs) 14:56, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I Spit on Your Grave?

You'll perhaps excuse me not having dredged through 11 archived pages to see if this has been discussed already, but I Spit on Your Grave stands out as one of the more undeserving entrants on the list. Even this article mentions it has a 55% "rotten" rating. Surely the film is controversial, and there may be plenty of sources calling it most depraved, most violent, etc., but this is the ONLY place where I've ever seen it listed among "worst of all time" along with other staples of the term. There are a lot of things said about I Spit on Your Grave, but it's never in the company of films like Hands of Fate, Beast of Yucca Flat, Plan 9, and so on. Patrick of J (talk) 20:15, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

After looking at just what references were present, it looks like a critic named Keyes called it the "worst of the decade" and then both Siskel and Ebert called it "one of the worst." This hardly represents any sort of widespread opinion, especially when compared to how many other films have been called "the worst" by many, MANY other sources. In fact, it looks like most of the criticism here is about how grisly and unforgiving the picture is, but calling something "abhorrent," "vile," or other strong words shouldn't be automatically construed as "worst." Patrick of J (talk) 20:21, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

We've discussed this one quite a few times in the past. It doesn't matter why a film is considered the worst. We've got a wide range of films here ranging from the so-bad-its-good horror flicks like Manos and Plan 9, big budget disasters like Heaven's Gate and Ishtar, gross-out comedies like Freddie Got Fingered and Movie 43, and films deemed controversial for using sex in what what some critics believe to be inappropriate, like ISOYG and Caligula. As the criteria stands now, it doesn't matter what the RT score is. Notice how if you were to make Venn diagram of this list and List of films with a 0% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, the crossover would be quite small. Mommie Dearest has the same rating as ISOYG and received more support from prominent critics like Pauline Kael and Leonard Maltin than ISOYG ever received from that group. The harsh response that ISPOYG got has a huge part to play in its legacy, much like Mommie Dearest's. It's even in the lede for I Spit on Your Grave's individual article. Ebert once even wrote a response when he was asked if he thought the intensively negative exposure he and Siskel gave the film helped actually make it more popular. I'd say that a strong case has been made that it has a legacy as being brought up in the conversation of worst films by some. Clearly we have to present the other side of the argument because it's also remembered positively by half of the viewers. I was the one who added the bit about positive reviews, feel free to expand on that.LM2000 (talk) 02:20, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

It seems to me that most of the films on this list, at least the ones I've seen/heard of (and I'm no film expert) have been universally derided as one of the worst films. I Spit On Your Grave may be called the worst film by some critics, but even from the given references this doesn't look to be an overwhelming opinion. The sources as well as other commentary I've read about the film suggest that it is indeed a candidate for "most violent" or "most controversial," and it looks as though its reputation for being a deplorable film is being conflated with 3 critics calling it "one of the worst." I understand the "worst for a variety of reasons," but most critics aren't calling I Spit on Your Grave the worst film ever because of its violence, rape, etc., they're simply pointing out that it is indeed a depraved piece of work.

A film as grisly as this is bound to be called "the worst film ever" by some due to the extreme content, but there are dozens upon dozens of similar films of even higher notoriety with the same criticisms. Cannibal Holocaust comes to mind. At best I'd say that these sources point to I Spit on Your Grave being a very controversial film, and there is certainly enough to make a case for it as an entry for "most violent film ever" but the reviews cited don't overwhelmingly suggest that the majority of the film-watching world counts I Spit on Your Grave among the worst ever. Aside from Keyes, Siskel, and Ebert, it looks as though other critics' comments on the film are being potentially misinterpreted. A lot of people talked about how sick and disgusting this movie is, but that's not really the same thing as multiple reviewers proclaiming it's the worst film. It seems to me that the critics' comments about how vile and distasteful I Spit On Your Grave is are presented as evidence that it's considered one of the worst films, which is simply conjecture.

All that's made clear here is that 3 people at one point considered I Spit on Your Grave to be one of the worst films ever. The remaining references all do a great job of discussing the film's controversial material but say nothing equivalent to "this is one of the worst films ever." If someone could dig up another half dozen references of critics calling it one of history's "worst films" then that would be acceptable, but for now, I don't think the opinions of 3 people should condemn the film to "worst ever" status. Patrick of J (talk) 06:47, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

It seems to me that most of the films on this list, at least the ones I've seen/heard of (and I'm no film expert) have been universally derided as one of the worst films. See, that's where you're wrong. Very few of these films are universally (key word) regarded as being amongst the worst films of all time. RT scores aren't perfect, but they're a good barometer. The reason we don't use them is because even if a film has 0%, every critic could've given it a D+ rating, not an F- "worst movie I've ever seen" rating, and that's what we're looking for. ISOYG has a 55% rating, so does Mommie Dearest. Other films have ratings in the 20s, 30s, etc. Even Jack and Jill, which won more Razzies than any other film in history, has a 3% rating. Not only does every review not claim it's the worst ever (hence its not universally considered the worst) but it even has some defenders and we've only got five comments from critics calling it the worst. Should that too be removed because it doesn't make the half dozen cusp that you're looking for? As for ISOYG, we've got one critic calling it the absolute worst film they've ever seen, another calling it one of the worst they've seen, and another calling it the worst of that decade. We've also got critics calling it the most repulsive and worst exploitative trash they've seen, which I agree wouldn't be attributed to mean worst ever. But if you read the reviews they aren't applauding its presentation of rape as a subject. I once read an article on Jezebel which accused it of presenting it in the worst way possible, complete with an airbrushed poster of the protagonist's ass. If it wasn't for those three very solid sources which call it the worst the others wouldn't matter, but combined with them I think it makes for a solid inclusion.

An important thing to remember is WP:RECENTISM. A number of the films on here were considered the worst when they first came out decades ago but their reputations improved over time. It's important to tell the whole story (WP:NPOV). Films like Heaven's Gate and At Long Last Love have lengthy paragraphs describing their reputations. Others like Ishtar and Mommie Dearest should probably have sections like those as well. Much like ISOYG, they're divisive films, but considered the worst by reliable sources, so they belong here.LM2000 (talk) 22:43, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

If 3 critics calling it "the worst" is all it takes for a film to be included on this list then I concede, although since 2 of them are often considered a team it seems to hold less weight than 3 disparate critics calling it "the worst." I still fail to see how calling the film "garbage," "repulsive," "vile," or anything EXCEPT "the worst" provides enough evidence that it should be considered one "the worst." There's a difference between the most brutal film and the worst film. It's dismissive to present many of these views as saying that it's one of the worst films ever. Even if it is inferred that I Spit On Your Grave is being called a horrible film, where is the evidence (other than the 3) where it's being called the most horrible ever? I'm sorry, but calling a film disgusting, exploitative, tasteless, repulsive, etc. IS NOT the same as calling it one of the worst films ever. Patrick of J (talk) 04:25, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

If you look through the list, I think you'll find that 3 is ample. All the other reviews do is support that some view the film very negatively. But here's ([3][4]) two more "worst" ones anyway. If you go to Rotten Tomatoes and click on any of the reviews, including (and especially) the positive ones, they all talk about its intensively negative reception. Kind of like Heaven's Gate, At Long Last Love, and other older films on this list whose reputations improved over time. Also, while Siskel and Ebert did a television show together I'm not sure if they could be considered a team as they reviewed films individually and often had very different views on films.LM2000 (talk) 19:59, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Request for Semi-Protection?

It seems almost every other day we have to revert edits on this page. I have removed Jaws: The Revenge twice in the last week. I know a few weeks ago we had Semi-Protection, and that helped keep poorly sourced entries from appearing. Is there any way to ask for Semi-Protection again? Gstridsigne (talk) 14:15, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

I've requested it. In the future go to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection to request protection. There are a number of IPs that lend a good hand here. One of the benefits of registering for an account is being able to edit protected pages, I encourage all you good IPs to sign up.LM2000 (talk) 03:21, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Foodfight!

Would Foodfight! qualify for this list? I've seen a lot of things on the Internet, including some critic reviews, calling it the worst animated movie ever. Alphius (talk) 18:43, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Can you provide some examples of critics calling it the worst movie ever made? I don't see any in the article.LM2000 (talk) 20:27, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Indiewire called Foodfight! " one of the worst animated films ever made." [5]. Also, Nathan Rabin covered this movie for his "My Year of Flops" series, criticising it for " The grotesque ugliness of the animation alone would be a deal-breaker even if the film weren’t also glaringly inappropriate in its sexuality, nightmare-inducing in its animation, and filled with Nazi overtones and iconography even more egregiously unfit for children than the script’s wall-to-wall gauntlet of crude double entendres and weird intimations of interspecies sex"...and saying "Foodfight"! doesn’t just represent one of the entertainment world’s most appalling lapses of taste, restraint, and judgment in recent memory; it’s one of those fall-of-civilization moments." [6] Which is pretty close to calling it one of the worst films ever (a movie so poor it represents a "fall of civilization?"). 176.61.97.121 (talk) 21:54, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Maybe it's just me, but the last one seems harsh, and a little bit hyperbolic. The first one is close, but it's regulated to being just one of the worst animated films ever, and we cover all of film without splitting into genres.LM2000 (talk) 01:54, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm no administrator or anything, but I'd say it definitely qualifies. --Matthew (talk) 20:50, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

If it were true that this had the dubious and distinct honor of being the "first and maybe the only movie with a negative score on Rotten Tomatoes" then I would agree with you. But dealing with the actual sources that we have now I think we're looking too far into things if we're saying that the "worst movie ever made" can be extracted from them.LM2000 (talk) 21:30, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Foodfight! needs to be on this list. It is starting to make the rounds on the internet now and many video critics are hailing it the worst animated film of all time. I know the Nostalgia Critic isn't the best source for this but his video on the film shows just how awful this movie is.Benbuff91 22:11 22 April 2014 (EST)

We still need reliable sources calling it the worst movie ever. We simply don't have that. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:27, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Hey Even JonTron in his Review of Foodfight! think this Film is One of the Worst Film's of all Time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.211.88.176 (talk) 03:57, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Again, we are looking for reliable sources/professional reviews. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:47, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Hollywood News calls it "by far the crappiest piece of crap I have ever had the misfortune to watch." Link EamonnPKeane (talk) 15:37, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

I've read more into this, and it reminds me of Heaven's Gate or Ishtar, in the group of awesomely high-budget flops. There are not enough reliable reviews out there that call it the worst, but we're close. It lacks the notoriety that those other two films have.LM2000 (talk) 05:52, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm thinking it's more of a Brenda Starr: reasonably high budget with some names attached, then languished on the shelf long enough that its obvious that everyone knew it sucked. By the time it comes out, no one is surprised its bad and calling it "the worst" is anti-climactic and unimaginative. Personally, I believe this whole article is suspect, drawing entries based more on how much work editors are willing to put into finding the needed wording for than anything else. - SummerPhD (talk) 12:07, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Hey have i look at the IMDb Worst Films List look http://www.imdb.com/list/ls058549988?ref_=tt_rls_5 so this Film on the Number One as the Worst Film ever made. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.187.45.135 (talk) 00:15, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Two things: #1 Wikipedia does not use site users' ratings because different sites skew different ways (IMDb users are unusually young, heavily male and, I would suspect, rather white. For inclusion on this list, we need reliable sources (think "professional film reviewers") who directly call it "the worst film ever made". #2 Foodfight! is not currently in the IMDb Bottom 100[7]. We've had a problem with a vandal using various IPs using false cites to add this film to the list. I see you're still at it. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:16, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

The Dissolve website has a link to a review of Foodfight!, by an "Outlaw Vern", which describes the film thus : "I do honestly believe that FOODFIGHT! has to be the worst movie I’ve watched all the way through....It’s not fun to watch. It’s actually upsetting".

The Dissolve is a RS, and "Outlaw Vern" has written a book on cinema ("Seagalogy") published by a reputable publisher, (Titan Books) so his review may also count as a RS. 176.61.97.121 (talk) 23:04, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Fact Mismatch between here & Gigli article

here:

"This film cost $54 million to make but grossed only $6 million"

main Gigli article (summary):

"The film was also a financial crash, grossing back only $7.2 million against a $75.6 million budget."

and under reception:

"Gigli was considered a massive box office bomb, grossing less than $4 million in its opening weekend after costing $75.6 million to produce."

given that the actual film article has references; could someone w/ rights to get past the protection please update the list here?

Thanks! anonymous drive by editor

96.29.6.73 (talk) 00:06, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Box Office Mojo states Gigli only earned about $7 million (domestic + plus foreign) gross against a $54 million budget. [8]. Though there may also be some issues involving "Hollywood accounting" to explain why its budget is variously reported as being $75.6 million and $54 million. 176.61.97.121 (talk) 10:18, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Keith Lemon: The Film (2012)

A British comedy film written and directed by Paul Angunawela, and co-written by and starring Leigh Francis as television personality Keith Lemon. The film was universally panned and it currently holds a rare 0% score on Rotten Tomatoes, based on twelve reviews. In a one star review in The Daily Telegraph, Rob Collin said "it may be the most staggeringly perfunctory piece of filmmaking I have ever seen." Phelim O'Neill, in another one star review for The Guardian, said "the script that must have taken longer to read than it did to write." Writing in The Sun, Alex Zane was slightly less critical in a two star review entitled "This Lemon sucks", saying that "this film just doesn’t capture the anarchy that makes Keith Lemon enjoyable, unpredictable and, most importantly... amusing." In writing for Total Film, George Bass describes the funniest moment in the film as "a bus sign (“T’LEEDS”). Six letters and an apostrophe. Save yourself the ticket." Chris Tookey of The Daily Mail named the film as one of the worst British comedies of all time and said that, "Nothing funny happens... In some inner circle of Hell, this movie will be for ever playing. Freshh! (talk) 17:09, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

"In a one star review in The Daily Telegraph, Rob Collin said "it may be the most staggeringly perfunctory piece of filmmaking I have ever seen".

That does sound like the newspaper said it was "one of the worst films ever" - what do the other people here

think? 176.61.97.121 (talk) 19:33, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

The reviewer said the filmmakers apparently didn't put any effort into it. That is not the same thing as "the resulting film was the worst film ever made". - SummerPhD (talk) 05:37, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Titanic - La Leggenda Continua (Titanic: The Legend Goes On)

This Film is the Major worst Film that it made by Italian was been similar storyline to James Cameron's 1997 Titanic film but it was a animated feature film with Animals (and the Rapping Dog) that it rip-off every Disney Films that it got a Negative Reviews. Linda Maria Koldau, author of The Titanic on Film: Myth versus Truth, described the film as being "a failed Disney imitation that excels in bad taste." Total Film described the film as being "widely considered one of the worst animated films ever made" and named it the one of the worst children's movies ever made. In 2012, Total Film named Titanic: The Legend Goes On as the worst film ever made, after it topped a list of the 66 worst films ever. Later that year it became the lowest ranked film on IMDB's Bottom 100. So do you think it add on the List?

--121.223.42.239 (talk) 03:30, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure if I understand. It's already on the list?LM2000 (talk) 06:19, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2014

Food fight! takes place in the "Marketropolis" supermarket after closing time. The supermarket transforms into a city, in which all the citizens are personified well-known marketing icons, A.K.A. "Ikes". The story opens with the protagonist Dex Dogtective saving kittens before he then tells his friend, Daredevil Dan, that he is about to ask his girlfriend Sunshine Goodness to marry him. However, when Dan attempts to draw a picture of Dex proposing but crashes and Sunshine goes to assist Dan before Dex can propose. Dan returns, but has no idea of what happened to Sunshine.

Pcclan (talk) 21:45, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

 Not done If your request is simply to add this text as a new section, it has no sources and says nothing about who might have considered it to be the worst film of all time. If you read the other sections in the article you'll see they all give maybe one sentence to plot, and the rest to critical reception. --McGeddon (talk) 21:49, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Fixed Dead Link for The Last Airbender

Hi! magazine changed the URL for their previous articles. I found the article and updated the URL, and changed the access date to today. Gstridsigne (talk) 05:18, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Night Train to Mundo Fine

We would have to find some reliable sources that say this movie is either one of the worst or the worst, but I think it has a chance. MST3K fans often debate which is worse, it or Manos. Theskinnytypist (talk) 03:33, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

After Earth

I could not see After Earth on the list. It deserves to be on the list.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Billgates2 (talk • contribs) 05:08, July 21, 2014‎

Please see the info box toward the top of the page ("Before adding a movie to the list:") discussing the sources we need to add it. - SummerPhD (talk) 11:45, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Highlander 2

If Highlander 2 Was ACTUALLY Considered the worst, feel free to Revert My/The Edit I Just Made. Until Then, It's Removed from the List. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Troydevinny545 (talk • contribs) 23:49, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

The reviews cited seem pretty clear to me. There should have been only one. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:18, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Well played!LM2000 (talk) 00:28, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Foreign language titles

Is there any reason why the original titles of some films were removed in favor of just the English translation while other films still have both listed?LM2000 (talk) 07:38, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Godzilla's Revenge AKA All Monsters Attack

Godzilla's Revenge AKA (All Monsters Attack) this was the tenth Godzilla movie in the franchise. die-hard fans of Godzilla heavly criticized this movie for being marketed more towards children, it childish tone and plot, terrible camerawork and overuse of stock footage (from Godzilla vs The Sea Monster & Son of Godzilla).

24.180.16.168 (talk) 20:12, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 17:03, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Godzilla (1998)

This is bar none the worst Godzilla movie of all time! It was nomanated for 5 razzies (two of which it won), was given a 32 out of 100 on Metacritic, and universal hated for fans and critics alike! Even Dean Devlin, the Story and Screenplay writer, said and i quote! "I know I screwed up my Godzilla. I'd be very happy if they pull it off and do a great one. I always wish I had another shot at it. But, listen, Godzilla is something that I grew up loving. We worked hard to go make one. We kind of blew it. I think everyone gets one." "I think the problem with that movie was the script I wrote. I think Roland did an amazing job directing it, I think the actors are great, I think when people look back now on the Blu-ray and see the visual effects, it's a lot better than what people said at the time. The problem was the script! I made some big errors in that script. I wish I hadn't, I wish I had a chance to fix it." It belongs on this list!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.209.174.213 (talk • contribs) 03:16, August 7, 2014‎

Please read the box titled "Before adding a movie to the list", near the top of the page. We need reliable sources that explicitly call it "one of the worst films ever". Thanks.- SummerPhD (talk) 03:26, 7 August 2014 (UTC)!

Caligula

Looking over the sources, only three reviewers actually call the film one of the worst they've ever seen, and most of the sources cited to list this film here are unverifiable, giving vague information on the publication dates and the source and notability of the publication, which makes it difficult to verify this information as cited. --I Am Caligula (talk) 17:02, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

I cited the newspaper reviews for Caligula from a LexisNexis database; if you search LN it should verify the newspaper reviews for the film, which call it "the worst ever". 176.61.97.121 (talk) 15:29, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Here's "The Age" article, on Google News, that said Caligula was being "billed by critics everywhere as the worst film ever made" [9] 176.61.97.121 (talk) 10:32, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank You Editors of this Article!

I just discovered this article's existence, and may I just say: bravo! It's probably not the best article on Wikipedia ever, but frankly I'm just glad this exists. Keep it up! Luthien22 (talk) 02:48, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

The Pirate Movie ?

I was wondering, since The Pirate Movie is listed in two "worst movie" books (the Medved brothers' Son of Golden Turkey awards and John Wilson's The Official Razzie Movie Guide) whether it had been described by a RS as "one of the worst films ever". 176.61.97.121 (talk) 22:36, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned references in List of films considered the worst

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of films considered the worst's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Ebert":

• From Freddy Got Fingered: Ebert, Roger (September 13, 2002). "Review of Stealing Harvard". Chicago Sun-Times.
• From Dutch angle: Ebert, Roger (2000-05-12). "Battlefield Earth". Chicago Sun-Times. Retrieved 2006-07-29.
• From Striptease (film): Roger Ebert, "Striptease," Chicago Sun-Times, June 28, 1996.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 14:55, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen

I know this movie hasn't made the top of many "Worst Ever" lists last I checked, but it's been the subject of enormously bad reviews nonetheless and was derided heavily by critics, fans, and casual viewers. I've always wondered if it fit on this list given its quality and reputation, being the only film its own director also panned. Any thoughts on this? I know it's neither the most unsuccessful film ever made and such, but its reputation might make it a suitable addition to this list.WisdomSeer (talk) 22:29, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Titanic: The Legend Goes On

The film called Titanic: The Legend Goes On is become as one of the Worst animation film ever maded from the critics, reviews and everyone in the world. Have a look at the Reviews.

Linda Maria Koldau, author of The Titanic on Film: Myth versus Truth, described the film as being "a failed Disney imitation that excels in bad taste." In 2011, Total Film named it the 40th worst children's movie ever made, describing the film as being "widely considered one of the worst animated films ever made." Total Film later named Titanic: The Legend Goes On as the worst film ever made, after it topped a list of the 66 worst films ever in 2012. In IMDb it was been listed on 57 in the Bottom 100.

So do you think you can add this?

I have added it before but Mr.Lama removed it without explanation. I'm in weak support of restoring it, that's why I didn't revert him before. Being named the worst ever by one poll conducted by a reliable source is strong but doesn't necessarily cover the criteria for the list, which says it must been deemed the worst by multiple reliable sources. On the other hand, I support its inclusion because it has received absolutely no positive reviews from reliable sources so it's less controversial to include this than something like The Twilight Saga, which was named the worst ever by a Rifftrax poll. The Total Film poll was conducted by a reliable source and (at least I think) polled only its subscribers, it wasn't an open online poll like Rifftrax's. We can't use IMDb because they use fan scores which are unreliable for the same reasons I listed for Rifftrax, however I did use a secondary source to describe it being the lowest ranked film on their site in 2012.

tl;dr I do support it going back into the list, however it only gets weak support.LM2000 (talk) 05:45, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Saving Christmas

I know Saving Christmas was just released last month, but it does have a zero-percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes, and even overtook Birdemic for the number-one spot on the IMDB Bottom 100, so it more than qualifies for entry. Would someone care to add it to the list? KirkCliff2 (talk) 13:15, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

No. The qualification is that some reliable source explicitly says that it's one of the worst movies. DonQuixote (talk) 14:51, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Do the movies listed here not rely on things like Rotten Tomatoes and the negative views contained therein? By your logic, this article would be blank, because nothing would be reliable enough. The article for Saving Christmas has all the reliable sources one needs to include in here. Anybody else believe it's worth adding? KirkCliff2 (talk) 16:15, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Fan scores, like IMDb and the RT audience polls aren't reliable. RT critics score is currently 0% and Christy Lemire compared it to The Room but stated that The Room was more enjoyable. Do you have any other reliable sources which call it the worst ever made? It's close but I'm not sure if I support its inclusion 100% at the moment.LM2000 (talk) 16:35, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

First off, I'm not saying it's the worst movie ever made; Wikipedians and film critics alike could debate which film is most worthy of that title long enough for the invention of a MicroSD card with enough memory to store the entire contents of Wikipedia, including all files at original resolutions, and even the contents of every other known site that operates on MediaWiki. That being said, the plethora of negative reviews by film critics, some of which can be seen on RT and alluded to in the film's article, is what I've been trying to suggest is the proof that it merits inclusion. After all, the common threads with all of these movies are mostly or entirely negative reviews and abysmal ratings at aggregate sites, for the most part. Do we even have an official set of criteria for which films merit inclusion in the list? Either way, if it's reliable sources you're looking for, the aforementioned film reviews are where it's at. KirkCliff2 (talk) 17:50, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

I apologize for not being clear enough the first time around. The criteria is at the top of the page: "Ensure that it is widely considered one of the worst films by a broad spectrum of both casual and professional film critics. There are hundreds of "bad" or even "crappy" films, this page is for the worst." Essentially, we need more than one reliable source which calls it the worst of all time. There's no debating Saving Christmas' poor reception but in order for it to be included here we need proof that some circles consider it to be the worst movie ever made. It is currently the lowest ranked film on IMDb but we can't use that (MOS:FILM#Audience_response). Christy Lamire's comments might be able to go towards its inclusion but I think we need another critic sharing equal sentiments before it can go in for sure.LM2000 (talk) 18:29, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

In addition to LM2000 explanation, keep in mind that user ratings are subject to selection bias and deliberate tampering. Net users still skew heavily toward middle income males under 30. Taking scores from this group as indicative of the broader population invites "Dewey Defeats Truman" style errors. In this particular case, Cameron tried to influence the RT score by asking his FB followers to go to RT and give the film positive scores. As the story spread, a backlash corrected for this and then some and the RT audience score plummeted. Most of those giving the film low scores at RT and IMDb likely did not see the film. Reviews say it was bad, but audiences likely to plunk down cash for this kind of film are still likely to like it, so the audience scores should be skewed significantly higher than the critics' scores, as they were before Cameron's FB ploy. Site users' ratings are not useful here. We need professional critics directly saying it is the worst. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:10, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

I saw a segment on the news channel HLN (Headline News) saying that Saving Christmas was officially the worst movie ever, but they were going by the scores on the IMDB, so it might not count as a valid source. Try checking news websites (like CNN.com) and see what you can find. Evernut (talk) 22:55, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Requirements

What is the actual requirement to get on this list? Opinions are subjective and Wikipedia tries to be fact-based. I personally don't think movies like Robot Monster or The Last Airbender deserve to be on the list. However, I know people that would disagree with that. So what qualifies a movie to be listed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.57.116.227 (talk) 21:03, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

The criteria is more objective than just voting on wiki-users opinions. As stated above, in order for a film to be included it must be "widely considered one of the worst films by a broad spectrum of both casual and professional film critics". We need multiple reliable sources saying that the film belongs amongst the canon of worst films ever.LM2000 (talk) 21:55, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas (2014)

Will Kirk Cameron's "Saving Christmas" (2014) be added to the list of films considered the worst? This movie has a 0% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes and one-star rating on IMDB. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/kirk_camerons_saving_christmas/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4009460/

The film also has numerous bad and poor reviews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.22.217.93 (talk) 17:00, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Stop or My Mom Will Shoot

I'd like to suggest this film as a contender for the list. This one has a 4% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes and has been the target of many savagely critical reviews. It was named by Roger Ebert as one of the worst he'd ever seen and Sylvester Stallone called it his worst project ever. Given this film's extremely negative reputation, I'd like to suggest it.WisdomSeer (talk) 06:35, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

What don't you people get??

The movies listed in the talk page currently are not films that have explicitly been named as among the very worst by several sources. If it doesn't meet that criterion, it does not belong on the list.

And until we can find sources to back up Kite, let's get rid of that too. Theskinnytypist (talk) 02:40, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Hear, hear!LM2000 (talk) 02:52, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

I've taken Left Behind off the list for the reasons listed above.LM2000 (talk) 07:28, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Ben and Arthur

Having just read about the film Ben and Arthur, I was wondering if it might be eligible. At least one RS (Queerty) has described Ben And Arthur as the "Worst. Movie. Ever." [10]

Another review (from the Cinemaqueer website, mentioned in a few Wikipedia articles on films), states: "Ben and Arthur is so terrible that it has awoken the dormant Bette Davis in me. It is so painfully bad that it wouldn't even make good fodder on Mystery Science Theater 3000. This just might possibly be the worst movie I have ever seen...Unless you get a kick out of mocking bad films, avoid this one at all costs." [11]

Also, a Rotten Tomatoes' article ranked Ben and Arthur #15 on their list of "Films So Bad They're Unmissable", stating "If Tommy Wiseau's The Room is the over-wrought, melodramatic and self-pitying heterosexual camp classic of choice, then Sam Mraovich's Ben & Arthur is its gay equivalent." Rotten Tomatoes also claimed"Even scene, every line, every hissy fit is simultaneously hilariously amateur and hysterically fever-pitched."[12] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.61.97.121 (talk) 23:19, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Also, while it's not really a RS, "Ben and Arthur" is also #58 on a GamesRadar list of "66 Worst Movies of All Time" [13] along with other poorly received films like Leonard Part 6 and Eegah. 176.61.97.121 (talk) 23:54, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

"Ben And Arthur" is also mentioned in the book Showgirls, teen wolves, and astro zombies : a film critic's year-long quest to find the worst movie ever made by Michael Adams, who describes it thus: "Ben & Arthur is as over-the-top insane as it is ludicrously executed... the production values, from biscuits on plats comprising the main course of a candlelit dinner to a church literally having a cardboard cross and a cartoon Jesus on the wall, are as bad as anything I've seen." (p.301). 176.61.97.121 (talk) 22:08, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

I think there is enough for inclusion. Also, I'm pretty sure that the GamesRadar list is actually taken from Total Film's list of the 66 worst ever, so that means it counts as WP:RS as long as you source it to Total Film.LM2000 (talk) 07:31, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

The Avengers (1998 film)

The Avengers, the awful 1998 adaptation of the wonderful 1960s series, was described by the Birmingham Post (August 19th, 1998) thus " The Avengers is being slated by critics as the worst film ever made - such a turkey, says one, that the makers should have handed distribution to Bernard Matthews". 176.61.97.121 (talk) 14:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

The Avengers also shared a Razzie Award for "Worst Remake or Sequel" with the 1998 versions of Psycho and Godzilla at the 19th Golden Raspberry Awards. Total Film magazine also picked Fiennes and Thurman in The Avengers as "The Worst Movie Double Act Of All Time".("Double disasters make it to top of the flops", The Western Mail, Cardiff, December 1st, 2003). 176.61.97.121 (talk) 22:37, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

My opinion probably counts for little, but while probably a bad film, it's far from being the worst film ever made. Fiennes lends it some charm, and it's not completely unwatchable.-MacRùsgail (talk) 14:58, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Very English language list

There are dozens of Bollywood etc films that make these look like masterpieces.-MacRùsgail (talk) 16:57, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I know but are there critics from reliable sources who say the same thing? We've got two Bollywood films on the list now, and several other non-english language films as well, but it seems that it's harder to find critics from reliable sources who are experts in non-english cinema and throw "worst ever" around as frequently. Matters aren't helped by the fact that Hollywood has a wider sphere of influence than pretty much anything... Here's a Brazilian book on worst films, notice how a good number of entries are Hollywood movies.LM2000 (talk) 18:34, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Totally agree, I think it's because Hollywood films have the widest distribution and the best marketing machine (also an example of the USA's soft power over the globe). Even amongst American films, there are "commercial" non-Hollywood efforts which are abysmal, arthouse films which are not as clever as they'd like to think they are, and besides that one finds whole American subcultures which churn out appallingly bad films by the dozen, e.g. various religious groups and the porn industry. There are horrific films that make it into the cinema, but worse ones that never reach there, and in some cases never even get released.

One of my friends comes from a Nepalese household. They understand Hindi, so watch a lot of Bollywood films. I've had the misfortune to see bits and pieces of a a few of them. I've also seen more Hong Kong films from the 80s and 90s than I'd care to remember! (Mostly dubbed, which made the experience more interesting.)

I could imagine somewhere like Brazil would have a pretty large internal film industry, but that most of those never get released outside the country, or other Portuguese speaking territories.

I think some of the worst films out there (including American ones) don't even merit a Wikipedia article, and probably couldn't be linked.-MacRùsgail (talk) 14:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC) p.s. I think the list is mainly composed of films that well known critics have reviewed, and that's probably where it comes in. Ebert watched an incredible number of films, but there were probably many more he never even got to hear of.

On the subject of lesser-known "worst films ever", Australian film critic Michael Adams says in his book Showgirls, Teen Wolves, and Astro Zombies that "Fans of Australian cinema shouldn't think we're immune to creating world-class crap" (p.144) and listed some of the bad Australian films he had seen: The Pirate Movie, Les Patterson Saves the World , Phantom Gold, Bullet Down Under The Glenrowan Affair, Houseboat Horror, Welcome to Woop Woop, Trojan Warrior, Zombie Brigade, and Subterano. 176.61.97.121 (talk) 12:42, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

The Apple (1980 film)

The disco flop The Apple might qualify as an entry. At least one RS review has called The Apple the "worst film ever" -Sean Burns in the Philadelphia Weekly gave the film a scathing review: "The Apple isn't just the worst disco musical ever made; it could very well be the worst movie ever made, period." (Burns, Sean (July 12, 2006). "Summer Camp". Philadelphia Weekly.) It also has a RiffTrax edition with Michael J. Nelson, Kevin Murphy, and Bill Corbett: (RiffTrax - The Apple ). 176.61.97.121 (talk) 20:56, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Jaani Dushman: Ek Anokhi Kahani (2002)

I have not been able to find what you call "reliable sources" stating that this is the worst film ever, but this film definitely belongs on this list, so I request you to do away with the mountains of red tape and not get so hung up on whether or not a "reliable" critic (if there is such a thing) has used the exact words "worst film ever," and consider the piles of evidence there is online to this movie being one of the worst ever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.177.170.175 (talk) 10:49, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Fifty Shades of Grey?

Well,at least one person of note thinks it's the worst film ever- Australian TV Host Lisa Wilkinson on the TV program Today:

"'Fifty Shades of Grey' is quite simply the worst movie I have ever seen.”The news anchor gave the movie just 1 out of 5 stars, slamming both main characters and the movie itself for the message it sends."Fifty Shades of Grey is more appalling than appealing," she said. "It's domestic violence dressed up as erotica... Dakota Johnson is the one dimensional, lip biting, "could someone get that girl a chapstick," pathetic Anastasia Steele who for no discernible reason falls in love with the aforementioned jerk and single-handedly sells women across the world short."

News Anchor Goes Off On 'Fifty Shades Of Grey': 'Worst Movie I Have Ever Seen' The Huffington Post by Catherine Taibi 02/12/2015 2:04 pm EST.

Watch a News Anchor Go on an Epic Rant About Why Fifty Shades of Grey Is the Worst Movie Ever Time.com, Samantha Grossman, February 12, 2015.

But obviously, we'll need more RS saying that the film is "the worst ever" before it can be considered for the list. 176.61.97.121 (talk) 16:28, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

She doesn't even appear to be a movie reviewer. I think if the standard for this list is "one person on television somewhere in the world thinks it's the worst movie they've seen", the list will soon fill all of Wikipedia.KaturianKaturian 15:20, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, this obviously isn't enough. Seems like it has been too well received to get a spot on this list.LM2000 (talk) 15:23, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Wilkinson and her show have Wikipedia entries, and the sources I linked to about the story are RS. It's not the same as ""one person on television somewhere in the world thinks it's the worst movie they've seen"- more like "one person of note, whose account is reported by reliable media sources, thinks it's the worst movie they've ever seen." On the other hand, she doesn't seem to have done any other movie reviews-so maybe this is another case of "Andrew Marr thinks Sing As We Go is the worst film he's ever seen?"

Also, I would question how "well received" Fifty Shades of Grey has been, given that as of 19th of February it has a lower Rotten Tomatoes score ( [14] 25%) than listed films I Spit on Your Grave([15] 55%) and Heaven's Gate ([16] (58%). 176.61.97.121 (talk) 14:42, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Yea, but there was a big backlash right from the start with those two films, their legacies improved over time. Still, same as anything else, Fifty Shades could go in if it's reflected in multiple WP:RS as being considered one of the worst films ever made by a broad audience. We're just not there now and although I don't have a WP:CRYSTALBALL I suspect we won't ever get there.LM2000 (talk) 16:05, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I forgot FeardotCom

Could you add FeardotCom? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:0:8500:472:6463:2E39:67E9:7D9D (talk) 16:33, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Only if you can provide a source saying it's one of the worst films ever made.Czolgolz (talk) 22:08, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Aliens vs. Predator (2004)

Alien vs. Predator, also known as AVP, is a 2004 American science fiction and action film directed by Paul W. S. Anderson. The film scored a 29 out of 100 on Metacritic and 21% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes with the consensus stating "Gore without scares and cardboard cut-out characters make this clash of the monsters a dull sit". The Chicago Tribune commented it was full of "monster movie clichés that leave you praying for most of the cast to get killed off fast, to put them (and us) out of our misery". New York Daily News panned the movie, stating that "Writer-director Paul W. S. Anderson has created the darkest, if not worst, sci-fi movie since Battlefield Earth". Dallas Morning News called the film, "a transparent attempt to jumpstart two run-down franchises". The film received a Golden Raspberry Award nomination 2005 in the category of "Worst Remake or Sequel".— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.209.174.213 (talk • contribs) August 8, 2014‎

Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem

Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem, also known as AVP:R, is a 2007 American science-fiction horror film directed by the Brothers Strause and is the sequel to Alien vs. Predator (2004). The movie was largely panned by critics and audiences with the consensus stating that it's the worst for a film in either of the franchises and that the increased gore and violence over the first Alien vs. Predator can't excuse Requiem's disorienting editing, excessively murky lighting, and lack of new ideas.Empire magazine called it an "early but strong contender for worst movie of 2008". The Austin Chronicle dismissed the film stating it was "An orgy of mindless violence, a random collection of bloody bodies, alien misanthropy and slobbering carnage designed to bore straight into the pleasure centers of 13-year-old boys and leave the rest of us wondering when the movies got so damn loud." The film currently has a 12% approval rating at Rotten Tomatoes and 29 out of 100 at Metacritic and was nominated for two Golden Raspberry awards in the fields of Worst Excuse for a Horror Movie and Worst Prequel or Sequel.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.209.174.213 (talk • contribs) August 8, 2014‎

Santa and the Ice Cream Bunny?

I can't believe that Santa and the Ice Cream Bunny didn't make this list. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_and_the_Ice_Cream_Bunny

It was also a MST 2000 feature. The movie is just bizarre. It makes Ed Wood look like an auteur.

Also, the list is too biased toward more recent movies which, while box office flops, were hardly "worst movies of all time".

2602:306:CCB2:DBE0:FDCB:190D:CA6D:625D (talk)

Missing films

No mention of Foodfight! or Birdemic ?