Talk:List of films considered the worst/Archive 15

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Kartoffelsalat - nicht fragen

Shouldn't the movie "Kartoffelsalat - nicht fragen" from 2015 be in it? In Autumn 2015 it was Nr. 1 in the IMDB Bottom 100-Rating and has a rating of 1,3 based on 6869 votes. In Germany it was duscussed as one of the worst movies of all times, especially due to the lack of quality and the casting of famous German YouTubers. 2003:E4:BF38:AEF0:40C8:B17A:CAC4:1E93 (talk) 03:56, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

From the top of the talk page

Cite at least one of those sources (Preferably the most reliable one(s)) that explicitly calls it "one of the worst films ever"

Also, per WP:USERG, imdb user ratings aren't reliable. DonQuixote (talk) 21:37, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Here are some sources:

- https://www.welt.de/regionales/hamburg/article146113080/Kartoffelsalat-ist-schlechtester-Film-der-Welt.html (German newspaper Welt has the words "worst movie in the world" in the title, often refers to IMDB ratings, like many of the websites)
- https://www.t-online.de/unterhaltung/kino/id_75340624/-kartoffelsalat-ist-der-schlechteste-film-der-welt.html (Headline of T-Online: "Kartoffelsalat is the worst movie in the world")
- https://www.moviebreak.de/stories/4982/der-beste-der-schlechten-kartoffelsalat-regiert-die-bottom-100-der-imdb (Same here: "Kartoffelsalat is ruiling the Botton 100 of IMDB)
- https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/kartoffelsalat-in-der-imdb-zu-recht-der-schlechteste-film-a-1051728.html (A review of Der Spiegel, discussing if this is really the worst movie)
- https://www.tonspion.de/news/kartoffelsalat-der-schlechteste-film-der-welt-im-stream (negative review from the media site Tonspion)
- https://www.moviepilot.de/news/noch-schlechterer-kartoffelsalat-der-schlechteste-deutsche-film-wird-fortgesetzt-1120960 (Moviepilot is explaining that the worst German movie is getting a sequel, which was received more positively)
- https://rp-online.de/kultur/film/die-schlechtester-film-aller-zeiten-kartoffelsalat-auf-platz-1_aid-22047221 (RP Online, a respective website, is discussing the movie and is explaining that this low budget movie is "the worst movie of all times"
- https://www.mediasteak.com/kartoffelsalat/ (here it is described as "The worst movie of all times - almost").
- https://www.tvmovie.de/news/nee-echt-kartoffelsalat-ist-der-schlechteste-film-aller-zeiten-85175 (TV Movie, the German equivalet to the TV guide, is calling it also "the worst movie of all times")
- https://www.rtl.de/cms/der-wohl-schlechteste-film-aller-zeiten-bekommt-eine-fortsetzung-kartoffelsalat-3-4598776.html (RTL reports about the sequel and mentionst hat "The worst movie of all times will get a sequel")
- https://www.filmstarts.de/nachrichten/18530426.html (Filmstarts reports "The really worst movie of all times is now avalable on Amazon Prime".)

Hope this helps. To be fair: IMDB does have influence on the description of movies. Like in America Rotten Tomatoes is often referd, IMDB is also often mentioned.

Are these links reliable sources? --2003:E4:BF38:AEFC:E129:3757:98C3:B59D (talk) 19:42, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Can't verify what the first two say (cookies required), so I can't really make a judgment on those (I'll trust your word on those). The third one says, "Inwieweit all diejenigen, die den Film bewertet haben, sich das Werk auch tatsächlich angesehen haben, ist allerdings nicht bekannt." which tells you that imdb user ratings are unreliable. The rest of the sources are probably good enough per your quotes (haven't personally checked them yet, so I can't add it to the list myself). DonQuixote (talk) 21:56, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

I worry that almost all of these sources are simply referencing the IMDb rating, they're not actually providing personal assessments of the film.LM2000 (talk) 15:37, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Star Wars

While almost certainly not one of the worst films of all time, Star Wars Episode 1 The Phantom Menace until roughly 3 years ago was widely hated on in both internet and social circles. Mike Nelson from MST3K considered it one of the "worst films of all time" and many other people called it the most disappointing. Despite myself thinking these are massive hyperboles, that doesn't change the fact that for a long time, hundreds of fans felt this way. Unironically. So if there are some sources I can find, or others, then as much as it makes me roll my eyes to suggest, but it might need to be put in here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.41.187.160 (talk) 11:27, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I personally don't think that's a good idea. At the time of writing, the film has a 52% on Rotten Tomatoes, won only one Razzie and it's Wikipedia page describes the reception as 'mixed'. For a film to be included, it must be considered the 'worst' by a sizable portion of people. That means less than 10% on Rotten Tomatoes, been nominated and/or won for a number of razzies, and a 'negative reception' listed on its page. These guidelines are fairly loose, and in some cases can be ignored entirely, but comparing The Phantom Menace to any of this is futile. Also, 'most disappointing' has a very different meaning to worst, and then of 'all time', not just Star Wars. You can have a look around all you want, but the chances of finding a reliable source listing it as one of the worst of all time is futile. 137.111.165.22 (talk) 08:52, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

It absolutely is not considered one of the “worst” movies of all time, except by a vocal minority of haters. This isn’t an article about “films with large hatedoms”, otherwise we’d have to include Captain Marvel, a “certified fresh” film, because misogynists review-bombed it. Also, “until [~3] years ago” i.e. it’s been heavily rehabilitated in its reputation and not because of cuts etc. or by becoming a cult classic “so bad it’s good” film. Dronebogus (talk) 09:02, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Many cult classics have won this status through an appeal to genre fans, not necessarily through "so bad it’s good" status. The Phantom Menace is "the lowest-rated live-action film of the Star Wars series" (as noted in the main article), but the main article includes glowing reviews by critics who were impressed with it. And the film was included in a list of the "500 Greatest Movies of All Time". Dimadick (talk) 11:36, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Ratatoing

An infamous 44 minute long animated movie made in 2007 by a lazy Brazilian movie company Vídeo Brinquedo, who can’t think of their own ideas, so they rip-off Disney, Pixar, 20th Century Fox, Blue Sky Studios, Dreamworks, Paramount and other major movie companies to make money. In this case, the Pixar movie Ratatouille is ripped off. Ratatoing has also become a popular target of YouTube Poops and an internet meme. 2600:1008:B064:3598:3908:A116:B921:A249 (talk) 13:16, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

From the top of the talk page

• Ensure that it is widely considered one of the worst films by a broad spectrum of both casual and professional film critics. There are hundreds of "bad" or even "crappy" films, this page is for the worst.
• Cite at least one of those sources (Preferably the most reliable one(s)) that explicitly calls it "one of the worst films ever"

DonQuixote (talk) 13:43, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

• Ratatoing has terrible animation, voice acting, loads of padding and one of the main characters keeps saying the wirh PRECISELY over and over again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1008:B064:3598:3908:A116:B921:A249 (talk) 15:53, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

  You still need to cite reliable sources stating something like "one of the worst films ever". DonQuixote (talk) 16:00, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree it’s one of the worst films ever (and love it for that) but no sources are provided Dronebogus (talk) 01:09, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Finding Jesus

The 70 minute “movie” made in 2020 of a lazy movie company that can’t think of their own ideas, so they ripoff Disney, Pixar, 20th Century Fox, Blue Sky and Dreamworks to make money, in this case, the 2003 movie “Finding Nemo” is plagiarized. It is also a racist Christian movie. It also has a sequel that was only made to punish you for loving the movie this one is ripping off over it. 2600:1008:B074:EF27:5C94:5351:7937:5B16 (talk) 00:39, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Do you have citations stating that this is one of the worst movies ever made, or did you just personally not like it? Bkatcher (talk) 02:40, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

"By genre"

Why does this section exist? This article is a list of films considered the worst of all time regardless of genre. This seems like a way to work some removed films back into the list, such as The Emoji Movie. As CodeTalker points out in the thread above this one, that film has been discussed at least a dozen times with no consensus to include.LM2000 (talk) 13:43, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

• Well, since the best films article have one, why not? Espngeek (talk) 16:30, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

  That article is entirely organized by genre, not by date. It doesn't make sense to have some films sorted by date and some by genre in the same article. CodeTalker (talk) 16:33, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I agree that the By genre section doesn't belong in this article. Even if the movies in this section did warrant inclusion in the article, why would they go in the genre section vs. the date section? There are animated films in the date section (like Titanic: The Legend Goes On) as well as in the Animation genre section; there are horror films in the date section (like Maniac) as well as in the Horror genre section; there are superhero films in the date section (like Batman & Robin) as well as in the Superhero genre section, etc. The By genre section makes no sense to me. CodeTalker (talk) 16:32, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the removal of this section but do believe Fantastic Four (which was listed under this category) should still be on this list. I saw a previous post here discussing Morbius and people were not in favor of it being here (neither am I), so how do we feel about FF? CyberAlexMM (talk) 15:07, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Morbius (2022)

I find it insulting that Morbius 2022 is not on this list. It has a critical rating of 15% on Rotten Tomatoes, and a 5.2 on IMDB, but unlike other terrible movies, it had a big impact. I would definitely place it on the same level as 2010's "The Last Airbender" in metrics of 'bad' and 'well known' which is important. I have a feeling it will be nominated for the Razzie awards as well. It's simply perfect for the list. Numerous review publications will tell you it's poorly paced, flat, makes no sense whatsoever, so bad you can sue, terrible CGI, etc... And people love to mock it. It bombed twice for heaven's sake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bing Soy (talk • contribs) 13:54, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

From the top of the talk page

• Ensure that it is widely considered one of the worst films by a broad spectrum of both casual and professional film critics. There are hundreds of "bad" or even "crappy" films, this page is for the worst.
• Cite at least one of those sources (Preferably the most reliable one(s)) that explicitly calls it "one of the worst films ever"

DonQuixote (talk) 15:24, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

A small selection of reviews:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/03/31/morbius-is-one-of-the-worst-reviewed-superhero-movies-of-all-time/?sh=45696be67658

https://thedirect.com/article/morbius-marvel-movie-audience-score

https://www.techradar.com/news/morbius-is-being-slammed-as-the-worst-marvel-movie-ever

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/morbius

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2022/09/morbius-film-review-jared-leto-matt-smith

https://www.ign.com/articles/morbius-review

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/01/morbius-reviews-spider-man-spin-off-is-bad.html

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/morbius-review-jared-leto-marvel-1328700/

https://www.metacritic.com/movie/morbius

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/mar/31/morbius-review-ludicrously-pointless-jekyll-and-hyde-vampire-monster-yarn

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5108870/

Keep in Mind: This movie is one where user reviews can not be trusted 100%, because so many people 'positive review bomb' it in their '#morbiussweep' and '#getthemfries' campaign which sways the data significantly. Even with this alteration of votes, it still comes off as mediocre. Bing Soy (talk) 15:32, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Upon a quick skim of the contents

Nforbes: worst reviewed superhero movie ≠ worst movie

Nthedirect: Second-Worst Audience Score ≠ casual and professional film critics

Ntechrader: worst Marvel movie ever ≠ worst movie

Nrottentomatoes

Ythepostathens: one of the greatest trainwrecks out there in terms of film

Ncnbc

Nrollingstone:worst of [Marvel] films ≠ worst movie

Nmetacritic

Ntheguardian: pointless and dumb film ≠ worst movie

Nimdb: see WP:USERG

You need sources that actually call it one of the worst films ever (or words to that effect). Anything less than that falls way below the bar. DonQuixote (talk) 20:51, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Some additional sources that might better fit the narrative that Morbius is specifically a bad movie, not merely a bad superhero movie.:

The Ringer - "Sony has distributed a film that is so breathtakingly terrible, and so excruciating to watch, that it could be mistaken for one of the 10 plagues of Egypt. I truly believe that Morbius’s opening weekend is the three days of darkness foretold in the Bible."

GeekTyrant - "I was shocked by how awful it was. It’s one of the worst movies of the year and I have yet to meet anyone that actually liked the movie."

Daily Targum - "This movie is bad and done in the worst way possible."

The Tab - "These 18 Morbius memes are so good they almost make up for it being the worst film ever made."

The Daily Nonpareil - "“Morbius” earns one out of five buckets of popcorn for being one the worst movies I have ever seen."

LoudWire - "literally the worst movie ive ever watched" - Arkham Remaster

L.A. Times - "...a misbegotten, artistically bankrupt bid..." "An over-reliance on special effects is all too common in filmmaking today. And “Morbius” might be the worst-looking of them all."

The Disinsider - "“Morbius” is a top-to-bottom disaster, with some of the worst “superhero” (if you can call it like that) action ever put to film and a superficial story leaving little to be desired."

Cinemablend - "Morbius is a movie that is so creatively bankrupt and lacking in entertainment that I feel compelled to actively implore anyone reading this review to not purchase a ticket and let it die a quick, flopping death. There is no fun to be had here; there isn’t any ironic or “so bad it’s good” enjoyment. It’s soulless. It’s oozing, tar-like gunk that has been spit out of the Hollywood machine, and you should avoid stepping in it." Bing Soy (talk) 19:51, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

After a quick skim

N The Ringer: a film that is so breathtakingly terrible ≠ worst movie

N GeekTyrant: one of the worst movies of the year ≠ worst movie ever

Y The Tab: the worst film ever made

Y The Daily Nonpariel: one the worst movies I have ever seen

N LoudWire/ArkhamRemaster: ArkhamRemaster = WP:USERG

N LA Times: worst-looking of them all ≠ worst movie

N The Disinsider = fan site

N Cinemablend: a movie that is so creatively bankrupt and lacking in entertainment ≠ worst movie

If you have to bend over backwards to find sources, then it's probably not notable in-and-of-itself. DonQuixote (talk) 05:36, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

I feel the criteria you are using may be on the pedantic side, but I understand where you are coming from. I'm sure we can agree to disagree, but I say we at least keep it open for discussion till the Razzies. If it doesn't get an award for being bad, then I'll concede that it's probably not bad enough. Otherwise, it might be too hasty to say. It did only come out this year after all. Bing Soy (talk) 19:08, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

From the top of the talk page There are hundreds of "bad" or even "crappy" films, this page is for the worst.

Look, if you have to dig through pages of google to get any sources, then it probably isn't one of the worst. If most of the reviews on the first page of google search literary call it "the worst", then it's probably is one of the worst. DonQuixote (talk) 20:40, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Here's a similar discussion on the opposite end of the spectrum: Talk:The Dark Knight#Sources are not reputable. Also, see WP:DUE. DonQuixote (talk) 12:49, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Morbius, it's officially a contender for the Razzies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW4k1OOK2-4 192.107.137.167 (talk) 15:02, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

The Emoji Movie

This film is considered one of the worst animated films of all time, has a 7% precent on Rotten Tomatoes, and has been reviewed as being one of the worst by causal and professional critics alike 68.200.168.214 (talk) 23:32, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

This movie has previously been discussed at least 12 times previously without consensus to include it (see previous discussions here and here). If you have multiple reliable sources that directly call this one of the worst movies ever made, you can present them here for discussion. CodeTalker (talk) 23:43, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Plenty of reliable sources panning this as the worst movie of 2017 and the 'Mac and Me' of the iphone generation. If Cats is included on this list (19% of RT), then the Emoji Movie should be here too. MrBipson101 (talk) 15:45, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Like @CodeTalker stated, we need multiple reliable sources that call it directly the worst movie ever made. Wikipedia is written based on what reliable sources have written. If that source doesn't exist, then those statements do not get added to Wikipedia. Mike Allen 16:10, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

I've mentioned on this talk page before that this article is one of the best administered on the entire site. If only other corners of Wikipedia were so well policed. I found a few sources for "Cats" and with working with other editors had it approved. My suggestion is to do a lot of finding sources beyond Rotten Tomatoes. That site isn't enough for inclusion Research the film's reviews, with all the right phrasing required to prove that it's considered onev of the worst films ever made, and you've got a chance. Cats" had the sources and enough of the right words. I'm certain "Emoji" will have if you look hard enough 11:25, 19 December 2022 (UTC) doktorb _words^deeds 11:25, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Needs serious editing

Apparently, after the adoption of the Internet by large amounts of people (2000+), several films every year are considered the worst ever. I get it you kids, some movies are bad, but they don't all deserve to be on this page. If every bad movie is put on this page, "worst" means nothing. This page needs some serious trimming. Mercster (talk) 17:47, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

You are welcome to trim any of the material you see fit. Mike Allen 17:50, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

2025: The World Enslaved by Virus (2021)

The film is currently the lowest rated movie on Letterboxd and recieved overwhelmingly negative reviews. MKultra1020 (talk) 17:44, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

No Incubus?

I'm surprised Incubus didn't make the list. ;-) Despite the faint praise listed in the Wikipedia entry, I've yet to encounter anyone who didn't find the film bloody awful. Kevin Cole (talk) 20:17, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

DOA: Dead or Alive (2006)

The film, DOA: Dead or Alive, is developed a cult following through home video releases and has been described as a cult classic. 2001:48F8:300B:3DB:D731:1600:3045:D274 (talk) 06:05, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

33% on Rotten Tomatoes is nowhere near even a "bad" film like The Emoji Movie. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 06:22, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

The Little Mermaid (2023)

The Little Mermaid (2023) is infamous and considered one of the worst films ever made.

This film is just like Batman & Robin (1997) and Battlefield Earth (2000). 2001:48F8:300B:3DB:41A3:88D7:67FA:E982 (talk) 04:20, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

I can't comment here, but the one thing I will say is that the 2020s section could be in need of update with newer films. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 06:24, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

The Cat in the Hat (2003)

The 2003 movie The Cat In the Hat was so bad that Dr. Seuss's widow will not allow any more live-action adaptations of her late husband's work. 2001:48F8:300B:3DB:98A5:36AC:C3A:3497 (talk) 22:21, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

It would be helpful if you and everyone above started citing reputable sources that literally contain the phrase "worst film". DonQuixote (talk) 23:14, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

What movie could we put on the list of the 2020s?

I say this because it says in the article that requires expansion. So I ask you a simple question.

Any movie ideas you can post? Izan De Assís (talk) 19:10, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and remove that tag. There's really no reason to expect "worst" candidates to occur on a linear basis and even the editor that added the tag said that they didn't "know of any serious candidates".LM2000 (talk) 19:26, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

How about the lowest rated movie on Letterboxd for over two years?

https://boxd.it/2W7QS 2603:6000:DC00:F205:857A:C879:A323:6B7B (talk) 03:49, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

No. You need to cite a reputable source that uses the phrase "worst film" at least once. DonQuixote (talk) 12:49, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Released in 2020, Run Hide Fight had received negative reviews from critics, which it got 38% on Rotten Tomatoes and got Metacritic 13 out of 100, indicating “Overwhelming Dislike”. 166.196.58.13 10:52, 2 July 2023

You need to cite a reputable source that uses the phrase "worst film" at least once. DonQuixote (talk) 16:24, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

I recently found the source on Submit News talking about Daily Wire’s debut film:

https://summitpsnews.org/2021/11/05/ben-shapiros-debut-film-run-hide-fight-is-the-worst-action-movie-of-the-year/

166.196.58.13 (talk) 19:28, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

"Student-produced news from Summit Public Schools"

If that's the first-and-only source that you can find, you're probably wasting everyone's time. DonQuixote (talk) 19:53, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Them (2021)

what a stinker. The movie directed by Ignacio Maiso. Not the tv show. Can't find much about it online, guess it sank silently in the pandemic - but it's notable in that it was even worse than most of the other "pandemic specials" that were a result of draconian lockdown requirements. Zaphraud (talk) 02:53, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

You need to cite a reputable source that uses the phrase 'worst film'. DonQuixote (talk) 10:30, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

The Snowman

https://www.dexerto.com/tv-movies/worst-movie-2010s-the-snowman-netflix-top-10-2117390/

https://screencrush.com/worst-movies-of-the-2010s/

https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/the-snowman-michael-fassbender-netflix.html

https://www.metacritic.com/pictures/worst-movies-of-2017/9 142.161.77.32 (talk) 23:46, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Article needs a LOT of revision, and maybe even deletion?

Far too many "poor films" listed in this article - as opposed to truly awful films. Likewise also a lot of very minor B movies. And that, surely, is not the point of this article? A lot of the films need removing as cinematically insignificant. And, maybe, given that this is a "list"... the whole thing should just be deleted. 37.250.141.158 (talk) 21:57, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

I've said this before and I'll say it again: this article is one of the best policed articles of its kind on Wikipedia. If you monitor the talk page for long enough you'll see just how many proposals are rejected and how many citations are needed for entry. I worked with other editors to ensure "Cats" was included, and it wasn't easy. This article will always need tidying, but deletion is simply for the birds. doktorb _words^deeds 23:28, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, the list is just fine.LM2000 (talk) 12:06, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 September 2023

The Cat in the Hat (2003)

Main article: The Cat in the Hat (film)

An adaptation of Dr. Seuss' 1957 book of the same name, The Cat in the Hat stars Mike Myers in the title role. The film was widely criticised for it's screenplay, over use of adult humor, lack of faithfulness to the source material, performances (particularly Myers') and the appearance of the title character. Peter Travers of Rolling Stone gave the film one star, stating: "Cat, another overblown Hollywood raid on Dr. Seuss, has a draw on Mike Myers, who inexplicably plays the Cat by mimicking Bert Lahr in The Wizard of Oz." Roger Ebert of The Chicago Sun-Times gave the film two out of four stars. Although he praised the production design, he considered the film to be "all effects and stunts and CGI and prosthetics, with no room for lightness and joy". Ebert and co-host Richard Roeper gave the film "Two Thumbs Down" on their weekly movie review program. Roeper said of Myers' performance that "maybe a part of him was realizing as the movie was being made that a live-action version of The Cat in the Hat just wasn't a great idea." Ebert compared the film unfavorably to How the Grinch Stole Christmas: "If there is one thing I've learned from these two movies, it's that we don't want to see Jim Carrey as a Grinch, and we don't want to see Mike Myers as a cat. These are talented comedians, let's see them do their stuff, don't bury them under a ton of technology." The film holds the 10% on Rotten Tomatoes with the consensus reading "Filled with double entendres and potty humor, this Cat falls flat." Audrey Geisel, Suess' widow, decided not to allow any live action adaptations of her late husband's work, ending Myers' plans for a sequel. Epikvik (talk) 03:29, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done Too good for this list; appears on Talk:List of films considered the worst/Removed films.LM2000 (talk) 08:34, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2023

75.188.34.162 (talk) 01:31, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Marmaduke (2022) This computer-animated comedy film was universally panned by critics at its May 2022 release. It has a 0% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes. One critic said “Marmaduke is a steaming pile of poop. If you step into this movie, you’d need a stick to scrape squished Marmaduke from the treads of your shoes. As the saying goes, you can’t polish a turd - but it doesn’t seem like anyone here ever tried,”

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Pinchme123 (talk) 15:07, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Is The Snowman being considered? No reply (see above)

Just wondering if there is movement here? This movie is building momentum on being one of the worst movies ever made. It was also on the podcast HDTYM if that helps. Also lots of article discussing it. 142.161.77.32 (talk) 05:02, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

You provided four sources for The Snowman (repeating them here):
https://www.dexerto.com/tv-movies/worst-movie-2010s-the-snowman-netflix-top-10-2117390/
https://screencrush.com/worst-movies-of-the-2010s/
https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/the-snowman-michael-fassbender-netflix.html
https://www.metacritic.com/pictures/worst-movies-of-2017/9

The last one describes the movie as one of the worst of 2017. The previous one describes it as one of the worst of "the last decade". The other two decribe it as one of the worst of the 2010s. None of them describes the movie as one of the worst of all time, so it won't be added to this article unless you can find sources that describe it as one of the worst of all time. CodeTalker (talk) 02:28, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

https://amp.barstoolsports.com/blog/867544/yes-the-rumors-are-true-the-snowman-is-the-worst-movie-of-all-time

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/10/19/16503550/snowman-review-fassbender-all-the-clues

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/movies/2017/10/19/16505412/the-snowman-michael-fassbender-review

https://www.reddit.com/r/netflix/comments/12y4byl/the_snowman_netflix_viewers_in_disbelief_as_awful/

any of these help? 142.161.78.240 (talk) 06:04, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Request for renaming

I noticed that the page’s title is inconsistent with the other list of worsts, which include List of video games notable for negative reception and List of television shows notable for negative reception. Therefore, I think it should be moved. Sounds more encyclopedic, anyway. 2600:1006:B06A:CF87:9178:53ED:5914:901D (talk) 19:45, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Question

How many reliable sources must explicitly call a movie the worst or one of the worst for it to qualify for the list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheOmniDex (talk • contribs) 12:26, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Here's a rule of thumb, if you have to actively search for a minimum number of sources, then it's probably not considered by enough people to be one of the worst films ever made. If, on the other hand, the first page of a Google search is filled with reputable sources calling it the worst, then it's probably a good candidate. DonQuixote (talk) 12:44, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

OK, thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheOmniDex (talk • contribs) 13:44, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

But what's the minimum number of sources I could use? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheOmniDex (talk • contribs) 14:45, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Two or three highly reputable sources like Sight and Sound or 10 to 20 renown critics or about 100 listicles. See WP:DUE. DonQuixote (talk) 15:01, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Would reccomend that Emoji/In Popular Culture gets updated then as it says:

On July 28, 2017, Sony Pictures Animation released The Emoji Movie, a 3D computer animated movie featuring the voices of Patrick Stewart, Christina Aguilera, Sofía Vergara, Anna Faris, T. J. Miller, and other notable actors and comedians. It was universally panned, and is considered to be one of the worst films of all time.

I can't do it, due to the page being semi-protected. Carl4020 (talk) 12:55, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Apologies, posted it the wrong place Carl4020 (talk) 12:56, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Alright — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheOmniDex (talk • contribs) 15:18, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

The Emoji Movie

Why isn't The Emoji Movie on the list? Stein256 (talk) 02:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Search archives Mike Allen 02:19, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

And check the list of films removed from this list.LM2000 (talk) 13:48, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Would reccomend that Emoji/In Popular Culture gets updated then as it says:

On July 28, 2017, Sony Pictures Animation released The Emoji Movie, a 3D computer animated movie featuring the voices of Patrick Stewart, Christina Aguilera, Sofía Vergara, Anna Faris, T. J. Miller, and other notable actors and comedians. It was universally panned, and is considered to be one of the worst films of all time.

I can't do it, due to the page being semi-protected

Carl4020 (talk) 12:57, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done DonQuixote (talk) 14:25, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Son of the Mask

I think this warrants its own mention on the list, it’s ranked among the worst by various sources, as well as one of the worst sequels of all time. Richard Roeper also said it’s the closest he came during the first 5 years of hosting Ebert and Roeper to walking out halfway through. [1][2][3]https://www.watchmojo.com/amp/articles/top-100-worst-movies-of-all-time][4]https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?groups=bottom_100&sort=user_rating,asc] [5]https://www.buzzfeed.com/lizmrichardson/bad-movie-sequels-reddit][6]https://screencrush.com/worst-sequels-ever/] Themostoriginalusernameever (talk) 16:15, 8 December 2023 (UTC) [7] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Themostoriginalusernameever (talk • [8]contribs) 16:20, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

You will need better sources than Buzzfeed, Watchmojo and IMDB. See WP:RSP.LM2000 (talk) 03:12, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Removing misleading Chicago Tribune review of 'Chaos' as citation for 'Maniac' section

(Referring to rev 1191343481) Here's the full quote with context from the cited Chicago Tribune article, which isn't even about the film Maniac:

I wouldn't say "Chaos" is the worst movie I've ever seen. There are some voyages into ineptitude, like Dwain Esper's anti-classic "Maniac," that defy all reason. But "Chaos" definitely gave me the worst time I've had at a movie in years--and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone but my worst enemies. Even then, I'd flinch.

You can't use this quote to support the statement Chicago Tribune critic Michael Wilmington wrote that it may be the worst film he had ever sees (he didn't write that), so I'm removing this citation entirely. --Ernstkm (talk) 01:23, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

would yall update the article?

like lets not pretend 365 Days and its sequels were the only worst things for the 20's section... im sure from 2021-present theres been plenty of worsts that have been out... this list needs to be updated, so please tend to it. 173.27.192.174 (talk) 03:40, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2024

Fixing up some typos in Exorcist II: The Heretic EditortheRedditor (talk) 23:53, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. PianoDan (talk) 00:25, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Move

I think this page should be moved to List of films notable for negative reception, in order to be more consistent with Wikipedia’s other lists of worsts. 2600:1006:B053:C936:ECD0:E6EC:9961:E593 (talk) 17:02, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

@2600:1006:B053:C936:ECD0:E6EC:9961:E593 nah its fine where its at 173.27.192.174 (talk) 03:41, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

This move has failed more than once. It's fine where it is.LM2000 (talk) 04:16, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Ok thanks (this is the guy who wrote the original suggestion) 2600:1006:B01D:13C5:F047:4A8:B99B:91C7 (talk) 23:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Winnie The Pooh: Blood and Honey

During the 2020s, there hasn't been too many examples of the worst. However, Winnie The Pooh: Blood and Honey seems to be a potential contender worth considering due to the following factors...

-One of the lowest rated films on Rotten Tomatoes with 3% at #68 lower passing other movies labeled here like Bucky Larson, Movie 43, and The Last Airbender

-Nominated for a plethora of Razzies this year including Worst Picture and is considered to many as the frontrunner (This we'll have wait and see if that actually happens)

-Couple of other reviews that label it as the worst

Shawn Paul Wood of The Cinema Spot writes "As anyone can tell, Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey is one of the worst movies ever made. And, by the looks of its dazzling lack of antipathy for protecting its copyright, Disney knew it."

Matt Villei of Collider writes "If these reviews are anything to go by, the film might find itself in a spot of bother as it is being called one of the worst horror movies ever, though some predicted that, from its low quality, the film could garner a cult following similar to Tommy Wiseau's disasterpiece, The Room"

Scott Campbell of We Got This Covered titles his review "‘Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey’ officially – and deservedly – named one of the worst movies ever made" alongside a following article covering it solidifying it as one of the worst movies ever made

So I feel there's enough evidence to at the very least put it under consideration for this page, if it wins Worst Picture it adds further evidence for its reason to be here. Thank you for taking your time in reading this and I'll be interested in your decision regardless! Dragonsblood23 (talk) 06:26, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

I think you've got a good chance! The use of the word "worst" is what matters and there are enough examples. Fingers crossed. doktorb _words^deeds 07:07, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

This is a rare suggestion that actually has potential. Great job!LM2000 (talk) 04:18, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

It just sweep the Razzies, so I think that's enough proof to add this on the page. Dc55555 (talk) 18:53, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

A well-deserved Razzie for the knock-off of Pooj the Fat Honey Bear ;) Espngeek (talk) 19:06, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Madame Web

It's an early contender but I think there's some interesting sources that could warrant it for the list eventually.

Harrison Brocklehurst called it "Truly one of the worst films of all time - and yet I loved every stupid second of Madame Web. (...) Madame Web deserves its dragging and it will go down in history as one of the biggest disasters on screen in recent memory. But that’s exactly why I loved it: Being a part of history and seeing such a hilariously, entertainingly dreadful film can bring nothing but joy when you go in there ready for it.[9]

The Daily Beast dubbed it "Offically the Worst Superhero movie of All Time"[10]

A review from Rolling Stone called it "the Cats: The Movie of superhero movies", suggesting that "not a single decision seems of sound mind". He continued, "A genuine Chernobyl-level disaster that seems to get exponentially more radioactive as it goes along, this detour to one of the dustier corners of Marvel’s content farm is a dead-end from start to finish."[11]

Sam Adams said, "It's a travesty, a disaster, a blight on the history of superheroes and cinema itself."[12]

UPI called it, "A new low for supehero debacles. (...) At least Catwoman and Batman & Robin believed in what they were doing."[13]

Sean O'Connell called it "One of the worst movies ever made, in any genre. (...) It makes MORBIUS look like THE DARK KNIGHT."[14] Themostoriginalusernameever (talk) 00:02, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Do you know, I saw some articles yesterday using the word "worst" about this film and thought this article would like to know. Inclusion on this article is tough, it's the hardest and most regulated list on Wikipedia I sometimes think!, though you've got a good chance. doktorb _words^deeds 04:30, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Along with the Winnie The Pooh: Blood and Honey suggestion above, this is the first time I ever remember two good suggestions in a row. Great work!LM2000 (talk) 10:14, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Is it called the worst of all time? Espngeek (talk) 19:47, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

That's too high a bar to clear. This article asks for enough evidence that it's been called the worst in enough articles/reviews, in enough credible publications. Looking for the exact phrase "worst of all time" would wipe out most of the article. doktorb _words^deeds 03:47, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

If I could chime in, I feel I'd wait til the end of the year/see how it performs in The Razzies to see if it still highlights in that worst category or if its something that's onpar with Morbius after all, its only been a month since its release so who knows what might come around this year if anything. -Dragonsblood23 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragonsblood23 (talk • contribs) 05:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Jaws: The Revenge

I bring this here because it has been removed many times before, at least going back 14 years according to Talk:List of films considered the worst/Removed films. In the past I have removed it because the only source calling it "one of the worst" was a passing mention in The Independent's the obituary for the film's composer.[15] Although I can't find any source explicitly calling the definitive worst movie ever made, I have found many source that call it "one of the worst", including: The Guardian, ComingSoon.net, MSN, Collider, GameRant, Screen Rant, MTV News, and Bloody Disgusting. It's also the oldest film to be in Rotten Tomatoes top ten worst list, appears in the Empire list, and probably many others.LM2000 (talk) 12:12, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Hannah Montana: The Movie, A film adaptation of Hannah Montana

Hannah Montana: The Movie was panned by critics according to Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic. Miley Cyrus nominated at 30th Golden Raspberry Awards for Hannah Montana: The Movie (Walt Disney Pictures) following critical failure for Hannah Montana: The Movie, but lost to Sandra Bullock for All About Steve (20th Century Fox (now 20th Century Studios)), and Billy Ray Cyrus for Hannah Montana: The Movie (Walt Disney Pictures) won at 30th Golden Raspberry Awards. Hannah Montana: The Movie was box office success. 2001:448A:6000:AE48:C010:2F29:45AF:9375 (talk) 20:31, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Emoji Movie 2017

do I need to say more 108.210.109.207 (talk) 14:27, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

believe it or not, you actually do. in this case, that would be providing sources that you think could be used here. thankfully, the emoji movie's article has...a small handful of them. just be mindful of the warnings provided when editing, and see if the sources actually refer to this movie-shaped audiovisual thing as "(one of) the worst of all time". sources 6 and 7 seem to be a good start to checking cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 16:07, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

I think it is on the rejected entries list due to not being considered "one of the worst of all time" in addition to its Razzie awards not meriting it a spot here either. Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 20:32, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Transformers: The Last Knight (2017)

• Anton Bidel of Sight & Sound called it "an exhausting distillation of everything that can possibly go wrong with a blockbuster".
• Sarah Knight Adamson of Sarah's Backstage Pass said "No one has the energy or desire to care after suffering through two and half hours of a film that is nothing short of a chaotic mess".
• Yohana Desta of Vanity Fair called it "a million god-awful movies crammed into one" and went on to explain that "it succeeds only in suturing together the worst aspects of each genre".
• Julian Lytle of idobi Radio called it "one of the worst movies I've ever seen in a very long time"; at the end of his review he summarised "This movie is the complete worst".
• Dana Schwartz of Marie Clarie said "There never has been a been a worse movie than Transformers: The Last Knight" and went on to say "I spent real, American money to see the worst movie I've ever experienced my entire life".
• Periodismo.com placed on their list of "The Worst Movies of All Time"

Does anyone think these are enough to add Transformers: The Last Knight onto the list? 31.205.6.244 (talk) 07:58, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

It's bad and yes it's expensive trash but it's not the worst ever. Your first two examples are only saying it is very very bad. Some of your other examples are suitably strongly worded, but sources such as idobi Radio or Periodismo.com seem pretty marginal to me. In a year that also saw The Emoji Movie (and Baywatch (film)) it is difficult to argue that T:TLK was the worst of the year, let alone among the worst films ever made. -- 109.77.201.136 (talk) 22:39, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Based on the sourcing, yes it qualifies for this list article. Iggy pop goes the weasel (talk) 16:56, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

No, not even close. Lifterus (talk) 09:16, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

References

Advance preparation: The Crow (2024)

Rather than use the main article and get reverted, let's try this way around: talk page and use the community to work together. Particularly with this article as advance preparation:

Quote: "The Crow 2.0 is a total, head-in-hands disaster, incoherently plotted and sloppily made, destined to join the annals of the very worst and most pointless remakes ever made."

Link: https://www.theguardian.com/film/article/2024/aug/22/the-crow-review-thriller-remake?

Keep and eye on this one. We may have another addition. doktorb _words^deeds 15:49, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Not sure about this one. "[Worst] and most pointless remake" doesn't quite translate to "worst ever" without those qualifiers. 5-minute browse of RT suggests that the "worst of..." statements are all heavily qualified, and the reviews are not uniformly negative. For what it's worth, I looked into adding Madame Web a couple of weeks ago, and it's in the same boat. "Worst recent Marvel movie" and suchlike doesn't quite equal "worst ever." Carguychris (talk) 17:23, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I appreciate that. I'll see if other reviews build a better picture but if not, nothing lost from trying eh doktorb _words^deeds 06:17, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

It's all good, usually I would wait for a year afterwards to test the waters before doing anything, for example when I brought up and eventually added Winnie The Pooh: Blood and Honey on here, I waited til it at least won Worst Picture at The Razzies and then searched my sources before throwing it on for discussion. That being said, The Crow is worse than Madame Web in my humble opinion though not the worst comic book movie I've seen, that goes to 2015's Fantastic Four.- Dragonsblood23 — Preceding undated comment added 06:01, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I support waiting at least a year, as legitimate "worst ever" contenders should have a WP:LASTING effect that goes beyond the typical 1-3 month celebrity gossip news cycle. And before declaring anything to be the worst superhero movie ever, Dünyayı Kurtaran Adam, Catwoman, and the 1990 Captain America are required viewing (the latter is on my personal list even though it's not listed in the article). I'll have to check out Fantastic Four to see how it compares. Carguychris (talk) 13:34, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

For the record, three different Fantastic Fours have been removed from this list previously.

I do not really care how long a film has been out as long as the sources supports inclusion though. Razzies are nice, but they are (usually) an annual award so we should no put that much stock in them. While they crown the worst film of the year, we're looking for the worst of all time.LM2000 (talk) 18:01, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey doesn't belong on here either. Most critics who gave it over-the-top bad reviews were just angry that someone made horror schlock of a beloved children's IP due to a copyright exploit. I think much more time needs to pass and some sort of notable reputation should form before the movie is considered for this list. Lifterus (talk) 22:57, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

No, people are just angry it's a pointless remake of a beloved film and even then you won't find anyone sincerely considering it one of the worst films ever made. You're conflating someone flippantly describing the decision to make the movie one of the worst decisions ever with the movie itself being one of the worst ever. On its own it's just one of countless competently crafted dumb action movies. It might not even win the Razzie for worst film of the year. I doubt there's a single human being out there who sincerely thinks it's the worst movie ever made. Lifterus (talk) 23:04, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Borderlands (2024)

Is it safe to add this to the list now? It has 9% on Rotten Tomatoes and a 4.5/10 on IMBD and was a financial failure, only grossing $31.3 million against a $110 - 120 million budget. Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 17:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

You need to cite a reliable source that uses words like "worst film ever". DonQuixote (talk) 18:14, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

In addition to what DonQuixote correctly said, the mere fact that a film is a box office bomb is not a factor, as plenty of quality films have bombed, and conversely, not all "worst ever" films have bombed (inexpensive production and a lurid premise are often a good formula for profitability). IMDB ratings in and of themselves are not typically cited on Wikipedia due to WP:UGC issues and the potential for vote brigading. A ranking on the IMDB Bottom 100 can be significant, but typically only if an outside source brings it up. (As I write this, Borderlands isn't on that list, and if you examine the list, you'll notice that 4.5/10 is actually much too good!) Carguychris (talk) 18:37, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Here are some sources of negative reviews that put emphasis on how bad it is. They do not use terms such as "worst of all time," but they often compare Borderlands to films on this list such as Super Mario Bros. (1993). I know that financial failure does not prove a movie being bad or considered one of the worst, but I cannot think of a universally panned high-budget film in recent years that failed in both reception and box office as badly as Borderlands.

Borderlands review: This Cate Blanchett video game adaptation is a total disaster | The Independent

The Borderlands movie is such an irredeemable mess it had me longing for 1993's Super Mario Bros | PC Gamer "You might have heard the claim that this is a righting of the scale, the karmic rebalance after five-star videogame adaptations like The Last of Us and Fallout. A real Uwe Boll-style stinker to cleanse our palates and remind us that good adaptations are the exception, not the rule. We needed a new Super Mario Bros (1993)."

Is 'Borderlands' the Worst Video-Game Movie Ever? Yes, It Is (rollingstone.com) "It’s not a movie for critics, as the saying goes. Nor is it suitable for consumption by most gamers, film lovers, or 99 percent of carbon-based life forms. You seriously wonder if the sole purpose of Borderlands is to make every other video game adaptation look a thousand times better in comparison."

Borderlands review: the worst film of the year? That's putting it mildly | Evening Standard "Is Borderlands the worst film of the year? It’s definitely in contention – so laughably bad, in fact, that it feels like being catapulted back to a time when video game adaptations were a byword for mediocrity rather than the prestige vehicles they are now." Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 20:16, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

They do not use terms such as "worst of all time,"

That says it all. DonQuixote (talk) 21:12, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

It is still referred to as the worst video game movie adaptation of all time and is negatively compared to Super Mario Bros (1993) which is on this list. In my opinion, Borderlands still earns its spot on this list for those anti-feats. Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 20:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

From the top of the talk page

• Ensure that it is widely considered one of the worst films by a broad spectrum of both casual and professional film critics. There are hundreds of "bad" or even "crappy" films, this page is for the worst.
• Cite at least one of those sources (Preferably the most reliable one(s)) that explicitly calls it "one of the worst films ever"

DonQuixote (talk) 21:26, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Borderlands doesn't belong on here because nobody considers it the worst film ever made, not even the worst video game movie ever made. And there certainly isn't a chorus of critics saying it. And even if there was, much more time should pass before a reliable reputation of the film can be established. Lifterus (talk) 22:55, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Rolling Stone gave it the title of Worst Video Game movie. Is Rolling Stone not considered a reliable source by Wikipedia's standards? Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 01:04, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

From the top of the talk page

• Ensure that it is widely considered one of the worst films by a broad spectrum of both casual and professional film critics. There are hundreds of "bad" or even "crappy" films, this page is for the worst.

DonQuixote (talk) 01:13, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Headlines and decks are often hyperbolic and written by the editor or another staff writer and should be taken with a grain of salt. Note that David Fear of Rolling Stone seems to have hated Rebel Moon (1 & 2) and Madame Web even more, and those both came out this year. Lifterus (talk) 06:25, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Stricter Criteria is Needed

I think this list needs a stricter criteria for inclusion. My suggestion:

1. The film in question must have multiple established critics maintain it is in contention for being worst movie of all time. And what I mean by maintain is that flippantly calling it the worst ever after initial viewing might be a short-term knee jerk reaction or intentional hyperbole to express disdain. But if the critics reiterate this opinion later on or include it in their "worst of all time" lists then the opinion can be considered maintained. Overreactions at the time of release are very common. This is especially true for films based off existing IP (Catwoman, The Last Airbender) as well as big budget boondoggles like Waterworld, Heaven's Gate, or Howard the Duck where negative press about excessive budgets during production plus a poor box office showing seemed to heavily amplify the negative response after release. Contemporary schadenfreude should be filtered out if possible.

2. The film should not be obscure. Someone somewhere has probably made a 6 hour epic of actual paint drying that is objectively worse than anything on this list. Direct-to-VHS, South Asian action movies, or just general low budget amateur schlock never intended to be anything more should not be considered unless it has gained major cult notoriety for being possibly the worst film of all time (like The Room) or the film is widely infamous just for how bad it's supposed to be even if few have actually seen it (Leonard Part 6). I think metrics on how many people have actually seen the film or how much it was written about should be a factor for inclusion here.

3. The film should be widely panned. If a polarizing film got generally mixed or even positive reviews yet an editor can find a handful of critics calling it the worst film ever made, it's probably not a good candidate for this list. Lifterus (talk) 22:42, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I think the nominations above your post shows the current regime is working fine. I thought my nomination could be built upon while other editors showed me that more hurdles must be cleared. Borderlands clears the "worst of its kind" but still doesn't clear "worst of all time". That's pretty tough boxes to tick. I think we're going okay in terms of criteria. doktorb _words^deeds 01:11, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the criteria need to change. The film in question must have multiple established critics maintain it is in contention for being worst movie of all time. I disgree; critical reassessments (e.g., Ishtar) and substantial edits to improve promising but flawed films (e.g., Caligula and Highlander II) are part of what makes this article interesting. The film should not be obscure. Another interesting aspect of this list is obscure films that have achieved public notoriety on account of being deemed the worst ever (e.g., Hobgoblins, Manos, or They Saved Hitler's Brain; evidence is lacking that the latter ever received a theatrical release). The film should be universally panned. Disagreed again. First, it's not uncommon for a technically competent but truly awful mainstream Hollywood production to get fair-to-middling reviews from second- or third-tier critics who don't want to rock the boat (e.g., North and Cats). Second, what about "so bad it's good" films that are entertaining largely by virtue of their incompetence (e.g., Hobgoblins, Plan 9, and The Room)? Carguychris (talk) 15:34, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Every example you listed meets the criteria I laid out. First of all movies that were reedited or reappraised by younger generations is not what I'm talking about when I say "maintain". For example many critics still maintain the theatrical cut for Heaven's Gate was the worst of the worst. The fact that a re-edit was received more favorably doesn't change this, so Heaven's Gate still belongs here. What I'm talking about are hyperbolic knee-jerk reactions. SF Gate just called Megalopolis the worst movie ever made, and I highly doubt that critic will actually maintain this in a year's time after seeing a bunch of other bad movies (but if he and others do, then it should be included). For Hobgoblins, etc., note where I said "gained major cult notoriety". If Hobgoblins has achieved this (like The Room has) it belongs on the list. If it's still some obscure movie only you and your stoner friends seem to know about, then probably not. North and Cats were in fact universally panned so you're only proving my point there. Universally panned doesn't mean there can't be a handful of critics who liked it or contrarians who praised its camp value. It means the majority of critics didn't like it. The point is that even if you find 10 critics and a bunch of streamers who said The Last Jedi was the worst film ever made it has 91% Rotten Tomatoes and clearly doesn't belong on this list. Lifterus (talk) 21:40, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

In agreement with the two posts above, I do not think we need to update the criteria and I disagree with all three of your points. 1. See WP:RECENTISM; regardless modern reassessments, its initial reception will always be central to its legacy. Some versions available for streaming today, like Heaven's Gate and At Long Last Love, are completely different cuts from the original, making modern assessments irrelevant. 2. If a movie has a wikipedia article and has been covered by reliable sources then it is not too obscure for us. 3. "Universal" panning means that nobody liked it, which is something basically no films can claim. You mentioned The Room as a film that belongs in this list, yet that has a Rotten Tomatoes score of 23%. Plan 9 from Outer Space is actually certified fresh! I would argue that no list of worst films would be complete without either of those two entries.LM2000 (talk) 18:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

1. Nobody suggested re-edited films or films reevaluated many years later should be disqualified. You're missing the point. I'm talking about opinions that would not be maintained a year or even a few days later. If there's no evidence to suggest opinions have changed, fine. But if six months later the critic says, "I don't know what I was thinking, this new movie I just saw is actually the worst of all time" their flippant comments should be taken with a grain of salt. At the very least let's avoid putting movies on this list that haven't even been out for a year. 2. That's ridiculous. Among other reasons, one is that countless films that are widely unseen and have virtually no cultural impact whatsoever can still have Wikipedia articles, especially if they're part of a franchise. They don't belong here. 3. No, universally panned does not mean 0% Rotten Tomatoes and is not a term ever used literally by anyone, which as you yourself just said wouldn't even be possible in the age of the Internet. The term means overwhelmingly negative consensus. If you don't like the term that's fine, but the point is that there should be negative consensus. Again see previous comment. Lifterus (talk) 21:46, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

The existing criteria seem fine to me. Iggy pop goes the weasel (talk) 19:46, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Megapolis

Megalopolis is being called the worst film of all time by several critics, including SFGate. I'm of the opinion that it will almost certainly meet the existing criteria to be included here (if it hasn't already), yet should not be included due to lack of negative consensus. Lifterus (talk) 22:06, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Its IMDB and Rotten Tomato scores are FAR too high to be amongst the worst on their respective platforms, and it only released a week ago. If Borderlands 2024 cannot be listed due to not having enough significant backlash from multiple Wikipedia-approved sources, neither can Megalopolis. Maybe both can be listed after the Razzies if they win significant "awards." Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 20:35, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

That's basically my point. I agree it should not be included here because it got so many mixed and positive reviews and there is clearly not a consensus of it being a turd. But that isn't a criteria here. There could still be a broad spectrum of critics who think it is among the worst of the worst. Lifterus (talk) 18:55, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Lifterus, can you link some of the "worst ever" reviews? Paywalls are stopping me from seeing some of the Google search returns. Are you talking about this SFGate opinion piece by Drew Magary? Although Magary never quite uses the phrase "worst ever", the following quote does make a pretty good case for inclusion:

This movie is unwatchable. It deserves to live in infamy, with its title acting as shorthand for any multimillion-dollar flop borne out of monstrous ego. I took a bullet watching “Megalopolis” for you. An actual bullet would have been kinder.

However, I agree that greater critical consensus would help make the case. Although major critics have rated the film negatively overall, I haven't seen enough scathingly negative reviews to make this list, in my opinion.

As an aside (perhaps WP:NOTFORUM), it's amusing that after a major-studio bad-movie drought several years long, we get Megalopolis, Horizon: An American Saga – Chapter 1, Madame Web, The Crow, and Borderlands all in the same year—and wait, there's more! Kraven the Hunter hasn't been released yet. This is gonna be a GREAT year for the Razzies. Carguychris (talk) 22:26, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

He called it "One of the worst ever" on X. https://x.com/drewmagary/status/1839274403298681009 But I do not think one critic is reason to include it here, nor do I want it included. The current criteria makes little sense to me. It says there needs to be a "broad spectrum of both casual and professional film critics" which I totally agree with the principle yet it then goes on to say only one source is required. I suspected quite a few critics would be calling Megalopolis the worst ever but even if that still ends up happening, many critics actually liked it. That is why I think a general consensus that it's a piece of crap should be a baseline requirement. Regarding this year's Razzie contenders, only Madame Web should be even considered for this list. Horizon and Megalopolis are massive financial disasters with the whole failed egomaniac auteur thing going on just like Heaven's Gate but both got mixed reviews. Films with mixed reviews don't belong here IMO. The Crow and Borderlands both did get a negative consensus but they are just soulless cash grabs nobody was interested in. They are competently made films that follow a standard genre formula and are pretty forgettable, unexceptional bad movies. Nobody has called either the worst movie ever and the handful calling Borderlands the worst video game movie were quickly reminded of Uwe Boll. Madame Web is different, it's very poorly made, unintentionally campy, and seems completely unfinished. Like an 80 minute trailer for a different movie. And its negative notoriety seems to have staying power and cultural relevance as people continue to talk about how bad it is long after its home video release. And of course more importantly there does seem to be a spectrum of critics calling it at the very least the worst superhero movie. Which still probably isn't enough to be on this list, but compared to the others it's definitely the biggest contender. Lifterus (talk) 18:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree that Madame Web is probably the best (best worst?) contender of all the movies listed, based on (negative) critical consensus so far. I need to watch it! My reference to Horizon and Megalopolis was intended as an editorial comment; I don't think either one is likely to qualify. Both got mixed reviews. Both are by most accounts overstuffed, meandering, pretentious, unfocused auteur-driven labors of love that aren't good but likewise aren't outright bad, one critic's opinion notwithstanding. (I just watched Horizon and I agree with the consensus; it's a well-produced, coherent, and gorgeously shot movie, but it's overlong, it has too many subplots, too much dialog is stilted and didactic, and most of the characters just aren't compelling, ironically including Costner's.) I just think it's interesting that they got released at all. Studios are taking risks because they're realizing they can no longer print money remaking the same cookie-cutter superhero blockbusters over and over again. Carguychris (talk) 19:44, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I hate to delve into the "Wikipedia is not a forum" rule, but I disagree with your final statement. I think that studios may look towards video games or anime to milk to death next once they realise that superheroes no longer print money. Just look at the list of upcoming live-action CGI hybrid video game adaptations and the fact that The Super Mario Bros. Movie is the highest grossing non-Disney animated film of all time. HBO's Last of Us and Amazon's Fallout were also critical and financial successes. Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 23:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Borderlands is exceptional due to being in Development Hell for over a decade, failing spectacularly in box-office, and for being so blatantly disrespectful to the source material. Who thought that casting actors who act and look nothing like the characters that they are based on was a good idea aside from name recognition? It feels like it was supposed to be an original film, but the Borderlands IP was attached to "guarantee" financial success. I will wait for the Razzies or for when more reviews come out after it is available for streaming for free before I argue again for Borderlands inclusion on this list. Edelgardvonhresvelg (talk) 23:48, 8 October 2024 (UTC)