Talk:List of people with synesthesia

John Mayer DOESN'T have synesthesia?

After doing a bit of digging on the internet, I don't think that John Mayer actually has synesthesia. The original website is down (so I had to use a cached link), but according to this fan website which has chat-logs posted of John Mayer on the Columbia Records livechat, John Mayer says it was all a misunderstanding that began after his interview with Rolling Stone magazine. He says, "I'm not, and it wasn't a joke, but it was a misunderstanding. I was doing an interview with Rolling Stone and was feeling a bit New-Agey and tried to explain to the writer that words have colors for me. I think somewhere along the line it became misconstrued as being a physical event. Thing is, what I've learned now is that when someone prints an untruth about you, but it’s kind of cool, most people around you just want to let it stay, and people are suddenly very quiet about correcting anybody."

The thing is, there doesn't seem to be any article confirming that he explicitly has synesthesia, and everyone just references the (2004?) interview in Rolling Stone, where he talks about color in Jimi Hendrix's playing (which makes the chatlogs seem like a good source, since they're supposedly John Mayer talking — if someone could confirm that the person responding is actually John Mayer, we could solve the mystery once and for all — but I've also found this log posted on various fan-forums, which undermines its credibility a little). Also, musicians often describe music as having certain "colors", so I wouldn't say it's a good idea to come to the conclusion that he has synesthesia. It seems like many websites are passing this off as "fact", so I'm not sure if directly removing the point about John Mayer is the best thing, as I'm sure it'll quickly get added back by someone citing one of those fact/fansites. But leaving it there also perpetuates the cycle of possibly wrong information. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karlding (talk • contribs) 03:44, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Just found this interview where he talks about people thinking he has synesthesia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f5Q-_YyQl4&feature=youtu.be&t=306 He says he doesn't have synesthesia and his words were misinterpreted which seems to be consistent with what you got from the chat log. The way he describes it could still be associative synesthesia (but I guess he should be aware of that, if he has it, then he sould just call it that way): he says he doesn't visualize colors but he's "really close" to that but to me it sounds like he kinda trained himself to think that way about music after years of composing/playing guitar and since synesthesia is a condition that should be not self-induced it doesn't sound like he has it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.157.101.204 (talk) 12:49, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Where's the Doc?

No one has bothered to add "Doc" Evatt to this list? He would be the only politician in this list, and what an interesting one, described by one writer as "the best Labor politician never to have been Prime Minister". See page 9 of Peter Crockett's 1993 biography of Evatt. If you can't get a hold of that book, see page 29 of this terrible piece of writing, which had Crockett's biography as a source: http://www.nationalobserver.net/pdf/evatt_part1_natobs73.pdf

Julie Myerson no longer in list?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3604489/I-see-words-as-colours-hypnotic-collisions-of-sound-and-meaning.html

Eddie Van Halen, Billy Joel, and Syd Barrett

In Wednesday Is Indigo Blue, it stated that Eddie Van Halen had synesthesia. Shouldn't he be on this page?

Also, this radio program [1] mentioned Billy Joel being a synesthete. Is this verifiable from any other sources?

In an interview with Syd Barrett's sister [2] she mentions him having synesthesia. She says:

"I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he had a condition like synaesthesia because he would say that a sound was a colour to him. If something was really loud he would say it was black and I knew what he meant because I’d grown up with him and was so close to him."

This quote implies that he had it when he was younger, meaning it probably isn't LSD-related pseudo-synesthesia. However, this is the only source I can find by someone who knew him. --Asnav (talk) 05:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi Asnav. Be bold. Wednesday is Indigo Blue just came out, so no one has added this yet... but, you might want to add it in yourself, since this is verifable and comes from a reliable source. If there are no other sources for EVH, them you may simply say that "Cytowic and Eagleman claim/argue/suggest...". Be sure to include page numbers. As a general rule, we've been trying to get two independent sources, but this is somewhat arbitrary, so one good source, like the Cytowic and Eagleman book may suffice. The Syd Barrett quote is a little weaker, but may also be sufficient. See if you can find another, and in the meantime, feel free to add stuff... What's the worst that can happen? Someone else will just delete it. Edhubbard (talk) 14:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Alex van Halen

The evidence points towards Alex, and NOT Eddie being the synaesthete who first came up with the term "brown sound". See Wikipedia article for Alex and the reference it gives. did you know there is a fact-checked and well-referenced list of famous synaesthetes out there beyond the Wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.81.106 (talk) 03:37, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi IP, if you have a reference for Alex Van Halen, please share. Wednesdays are Indigo Blue is a book by two well known synesthesia researchers, Richard Cytowic and David Eagleman, published by a reputable publishing house, MIT Press. As for the fact-checked and well-referenced list, do you mean this one by Sean Day? Or did you have another page in mind? If you meant Sean's page, he has been a major contributor to this wikipedia page, along with other pages, like the main synesthesia article, under the user name Daysa (see his contributions here Special:Contributions/Daysa). Cheers, Edhubbard (talk) 13:25, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

With respect, I already gave you two references - the Wikipedia article for Alex van Halen, which clearly states "In spite of the fact that the term "brown sound" is generally associated with Eddie's guitar, Alex originated the term to refer to the sound of his snare drum." and the reference it gave to support this was this: http://www.classicvanhalen.com/bios_avh.shtml

There is also a revealing quote from Alex Van Halen published on page 129 of the book "Not even wrong" by Paul Collins, which was I recall originally from a very old magazine interview article that probably wont be available thru the net or libraries. “I don’t compare it to brown, it is brown.” Clearly Alex is describing here music-colour synaesthesia of his own. Anyone who knows about synaesthesia knows that even though synaesthesia is often shared by siblings as it is genetic, the odds are probably against siblings experiencing the same colour for the same very specific sound (unless there is any research that I'm unaware of). The magazine article would no doubt be the best source re "the brown sound", and I congratulate anyone who can trace it now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.201.103 (talk) 06:57, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, you gave me one reference. The AVH page does not count as an independent reference, since the only support for the statement comes from the reference on that page. But, yes, you did give me a reference; I'm sorry, I just didn't follow up to the AVH page and then to the reference. The "Not Even Wrong" reference also sounds good... so, we're now in a situation where we have verifiable references for both EVH and AVH. Given that Cytowic and Eagleman are both synesthesia researchers, and not necessarily rock music people, perhaps they just mis-stated who had synesthesia. Alternatively, they know something we don't. I've looked at their book, and they don't really provide any quotes, but simply state as a fact that Eddie Van Halen has synesthesia. I will e-mail Richard off-wiki and ask him to come and comment on this issue here on-wiki. As for sibs, although there is some accumulating evidence that sibs will more likely have similar colors compared to non-sibs, since the environmental stimuli that might play a role in forming the associations may be similar, you're right that, for the most part, synesthetes do not share precisely the same associations. In the case of tone-color synesthesia, there is evidence (e.g., Marks, 1975; T.L. Hubbard, 1996; Ward et al., 2006) that lower pitches are darker both for syns and non-syns, so the associations are not entirely random. Edhubbard (talk) 18:28, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

If the argument here is about the term "brown sound", nobody claimed that EVH saw it as brown. Maybe he sees it as a different color than his brother. It just says people often attribute it to him, not that EVH said it himself. In "Wednesday Is Indigo Blue", it didn't say anything about him calling it "brown sound", it just said he had synesthesia. They could both have it. Asnav (talk) 00:07, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't find any reference to a source document in the Collins book. The sensible thing would be to contact the Van Halens and ask directly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.201.103 (talk) 05:40, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Stevie Wonder sound to colour?

It says here Stevie Wonder became blind shortly after his birth so surely he can't have any concept of colour as his visual cortex will not have developed due to lack of input. What does the reference actually say? Richerman (talk) 16:10, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

The reference merely asserts that Stevie Wonder is a synesthete. However, there are multiple reports of subjects who have had synesthesia and who have subsequently become blind, and had their synesthesia persist, even in the absence of continued visual input:

• Steven MS, Hansen PC, Blakemore C. Activation of color-selective areas of the visual cortex in a blind synesthete. Cortex. 2006 Feb;42(2):304-8. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16683505
• Steven MS, Blakemore C. Visual synaesthesia in the blind. Perception. 2004;33(7):855-68. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15460512

In addition, there are reports of subjects who have become blind and subsequently experienced synesthesia:

• Rao A, Nobre AC, Alexander I, Cowey A. Auditory evoked visual awareness following sudden ocular blindness: an EEG and TMS investigation. Exp Brain Res. 2007 Jan;176(2):288-98. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16858597

Given this, there is no a priori reason that Stevie Wonder couldn't also be a case of synesthesia acquired after blindness. Indeed, it is quite probable that this is the origin of his sound to color synesthesia, as in the Rao et al. article cited above. Visual cortex does not automatically degenerate in blind subjects. Indeed, a large number of studies of non-synesthetic subjects have shown that auditory and tactile inputs co-opt visual cortex in congenitally blind subjects. Edhubbard (talk) 22:55, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes but Blakemore specifically refers to "late-blind subjects" which presumably means people who developed normal vision but became blind later in life. Nobre et al talk about "sudden ocular blindness" - again loss of vison in a sighted subect. I'm no expert, but my limited understanding of brain plasticity is that the visual cortex needs input during early life to develop, and if this doesn't happen then there is no way it can perceive visual signals later in life. So, if you were to develop a wonderful pair of working prosthetic eyes they would be of no use to someone who had been blind from birth because they haven't developed the receiving mechanism. As Stevie Wonder went blind before he came out of the incubator I would expect that there was no time for his visual cortex to develop so it would be most unlikely he would be able to remember what colour was. Richerman (talk) 00:39, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Aha, I just looked at your user page and see you are an expert so you can now tell me where I'm wrong :) I just used to work in a visual sciences department and picked up some of this stuff up. Still, if the reference just says he was a synesthete the sound-colour bit should come out anyway as it's speculation not supported by the reference.Richerman (talk) 00:49, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't quite explicit enough... the fact that Stevie Wonder is a music->color synesthete is all that is asserted in the reference. When I said that the citation merely asserted that Stevie Wonder was a synesthete, it did specify which type, but does not provide any other details or quotes to add more richness to the cite.

"It is perhaps not surprising that several famous musicians have colored hearing. Synesthetic composers besides Liszt and Rimsky–Korsakov include György Ligeti (whose music was used for the soundtrack of 2001: A Space Odyssey), Amy Beach, Jean Sibelius, and Olivier Messiaen. Modern musicians include violinist Itzhak Perlman, oboist Jennifer Paull, jazzmen Michael Torke, Thomas Wood, and Tony De Caprio, and pop artists Eddie Van Halen and Stevie Wonder." (I don't have the final page numbers because I have a pre-print of the book, but I'm sure that they kept this passage).

As for the degeneration thing, more and more evidence is showing that the visual cortex does not degenerate in the way early studies suggested. Rather, it is co-opted by inputs from other sensory modalities (especially touch and hearing) so that even primary visual cortex becomes active in response to auditory and tactile stimuli in congenitally blind subjects. The really hard, almost philosophical question here is whether this is experienced as visual input or not. But, in the absence of some debate, the best we have is the Cytowic and Eagleman book asserting that Stevie Wonder is a synesthete. Given what we know about cortical reorganization in the blind, it would seem that this is an acquired synesthesia as a result of his blindness. One question which would be pertinent here is to know what, if any, residual abilities Stevie Wonder has. Many people who are legally blind still have some sensitivity to light and dark, to motion, or even color, in small portions of the visual field, and this may be enough to support his ability to report colors, even if he can do absolutely nothing functional with that residual vision. But this is certainly going beyond the data in the original source. In any case, given my understanding of the brain, there is no reason that he couldn't be experiencing colors in some way. Cheers, Edhubbard (talk) 17:23, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

There's an interesting reference here that says "Because he was premature, the blood vessels at the back of his eyes hadn't yet reached the front, and their aborted growth caused the retinas to detach." I know it's a newspaper article and so may not be entirely accurate but, if what they say is true, I would imagine that means he wouldn't have any residual vision - but it would be interesting to know for sure. I remembered last night about bits of "unused" brain getting co-opted into doing other things - I think I must have read about in in your colleague Ramachandran's book Phantoms in the brain - fascinating stuff! I would imagine that if Wonder had no residual vision then there is no way he could report what colour he was perceiving as he would have no reference point for what any particular colour was, if that makes sense. He wouldn't know what, say red or blue, looked like to a sighted person. I see that this article says "Humayun... believes that his implants will be most successful in patients who were once fully sighted, rather than people who were blind from birth. However, he wants to try the device out in those people too." Some years ago I worked with a guy who was working on a cortical implant and I was told then that it wouldn't work for those who were blind from birth. It looks like it's not that cut-and-dried after all. Richerman (talk) 00:25, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Rachmaninov

I am sure that I once read in a publication of Classic FM that Rachmaninov had synaesthesia. Does any one know anything about this? This is a very interesting list, and I am sure that it could have some names added to it. A lot of classical composers seemed to have synaesthesia. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:47, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Nicola Tesla

Perhaps he has synethesia? To quote from his My Inventions articles in the Electrical Experimenter, February-June and October 1919 he says, In my boyhood I suffered from a peculiar affliction due to the appearance of images, often accompanied by strong flashes of light, which marred the sight of real objects and interfered with my thought and action. They were pictures of things and scenes which I had really seen, never of those I imagined. When a word was spoken to me the image of the object it designated would present itself vividly to my vision and sometimes I was quite unable to distinguish whether what I saw was tangible or not. This caused me great discomfort and anxiety. None of the students of psychology or physiology whom I have consulted could ever explain satisfactorily these phenomena. They seem to have been unique altho I was probably predisposed as I know that my brother experienced a similar trouble. The theory I have formulated is that the images were the result of a reflex action from the brain on the retina under great excitation. They certainly were not hallucinations such as are produced in diseased and anguished minds, for in other respects I was normal and composed. To give an idea of my distress, suppose that I had witnest a funeral or some such nerve-racking spectacle. Then, inevitably, in the stillness of night, a vivid picture of the scene would thrust itself before my eyes and persist despite all my efforts to banish it. Sometimes it would even remain fixt in space tho I pushed my hand thru it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yogiadept (talk • contribs) 00:18, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

The Tetris Effect is a possible explanation for the second experience described, but it's hard to find an established label for the experience described before. This certainly doesn't look like a recognized type of synaesthesia, but possibly these experiences are related. I'm sure I've read other stuff in that book by Tesla that more closely resembles an explanation of synaesthesia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.142.154 (talk) 14:44, 26 December 2011 (UTC) 

Tenuous?

The evidence for synaesthesia in a lot of people on this list seem to be rather tenuous. It seems that these days anyone involved in the arts is a synaesthete (if that's a word). 90.205.92.82 (talk) 21:11, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Don't Alan Davies and stephen fry have this

as shown in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaMWUsJfIYc both talk about weekday to colour synesthesia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.164.206.58 (talk) 21:57, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

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Criteria?

Some of those listed as having synesthesia seem a little dicey to me. I was wondering what the criteria for "diagnosing" them are. A few examples follow.

• Rollo Armstrong - Hearsay evidence only from Sister Bliss claiming that Armstrong has synesthesia based on his describing some moods that music can generate. On it's face, isn't that what much of western music is used for, to generate varying moods in listeners? Television and films utilize this effect all the time in their scores. Is there a firmer source that points to more discretely synesthete behaviors? (His article doesn't even mention synesthesia.)

• Amy Beach - First off, according to Oliver Sacks, perfect pitch is quite rare even among musicians. And, ironically, not all people who have perfect pitch are musicians. Now, about the color claims - "Amy’s mother encouraged her to relate melodies to the colors blue, pink, or purple, but before long Amy had a wider range of colors..." This sounds an awful lot like she learned to use her inner eye (imagination) to think this way, a kind of mnemonic device perhaps. Wikipedia's Synesthesia article includes some diagnostic criteria developed by neurologist Richard Cytowic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia#Diagnostic_criteria . The first mentioned is "1. Synesthesia is involuntary and automatic." Therefore, it seems that Beach's mother could not teach her daughter to be a synesthete.

• Vladimir Nabokov - Is there any known documentation that this ability is inherited? In the Synesthesia article, it says: "Little is known about how synesthesia develops. It has been suggested that synesthesia develops during childhood when children are intensively engaged with abstract concepts for the first time.[10] This hypothesis – referred to as semantic vacuum hypothesis – explains why the most common forms of synesthesia are grapheme-color, spatial sequence and number form. These are usually the first abstract concepts that educational systems require children to learn." Is there any more data known?

Tori Amos: "...try to imagine the best kaleidoscope ever..." I'm trying, I'm trying - jealousy abounds!

[I made Sister Bliss a link. More of the names mentioned in this article may also qualify for links, too, but I'm tired.]

Thank you for your attention, Wordreader (talk) 06:47, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Quincy Jones

Jones talks about his synthesia in the Nerdist/Leonard Maltin podcast "Maltin on Movies", 3 March 2017, at maybe the nine minute mark. -- Zanimum (talk) 13:16, 4 March 2017 (UTC) Zanimum (talk) 13:16, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

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Ray Davies?

This may be a stretch, but in the song "Lola" by The Kinks, Lola is described as talking "in a dark brown voice." I don't know if this is enough evidence for Davies being a synesthete, but he might go in the possible section. Sea Captain Cormac 20:54, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Help verifying sources

Hi! Back in November, I cleaned up the list a bit, which included the removal of sources that met one of the following criteria (and therefore entire entries that were solely backed by such sources):

• The source is inaccessible. During my cleanup, all the sources I found that met this criteria were either books with no Google Books previews or dead links with no archived versions.
• The source never mentions synesthesia by name, suggesting original research on the part of whoever added the person to the list.
• The source is non-primary and simply describes the person as a synesthete without citing its own sources.

Afterwards, I began syncing up the list with its corresponding category, Category:People with synesthesia, as much as possible, but there are a few sources I have been unable to verify because they're either unavailable in my region, dead (all the Internet archive sites are blocked on my computer):) or YouTube videos I just don't feel like sitting through just to see the relevant part/if there even is a relevant part at all. Pretty much everyone who's in the list but not the category needs their sources verified, but if you want a specific list;

• Mary J. Blige
• Robert Cailliau
• Elvin Jones
• Kilford
• Geoffrey Rush
• Patrick Stump
• Kanye West
• Hans Zimmer

--ⓋᎯ☧ǿᖇǥ@ℤε💬 18:55, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

• Since nobody's volunteered yet, I'm going to remove everyone listed above from the list until their sources have been verified.--ⓋᎯ☧ǿᖇǥ@ℤε💬 14:03, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

References

Is this page really a "dynamic list"?

If you check other lists such as List of people with bipolar disorder, you will notice it doesn't have this tag. It has plenty of modern people on it as well and will presumably just keep getting longer and longer as new people reveal themselves as having it. I would think that either both of these pages should have the tag, or neither of them. Perhaps I misunderstand "dynamic list". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Driftybiscuit (talk • contribs) 15:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Help wanted - Tracking down primary sources

I would like some help in tracking down some primary sources. I have found and referenced several secondary sources for Franz Liszt saying "Oh, please, gentlemen, a little bluer, if you please!", and some of them have referenced a primary source which I can't get a hold of. If anybody can get a hold of this to verify, I would really appreciate it as I don't know where else to look (I've searched JSTOR and EBSCO)

• Secondary source containing the quote: Cytowic, Richard E. (2009). Wednesday is indigo blue : discovering the brain of synesthesia. Eagleman, David. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press. p. 93. ISBN 978-0-262-25483-0. OCLC 317116544.
• Secondary source containing the quote: Liu, Annie (Yen-Ling) (2013). "Listening as Gazing: Synaesthesia and the Double Apotheosis in Franz Liszt's "Hunnenschlacht"". Studia Musicologica. 54 (4): 379–388. ISSN 1788-6244.
  • This source cites in a footnote the following primary source which I can't get a hold of: "O, bitte meine Herren, ein bisschen blauer, wenn es gefällt! Diese Tonart erfordert es!" and "Das ist ein tiefes Violett, ich bitte, sich danach zu richten!"; cited in Neue Berliner Musikzeitung, August 29, 1895. Driftybiscuit (talk) 16:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Seems like this is a newly trendy thing to claim to have amongst up-and-coming musical artists... probably because it makes them seem somehow more "connected" to their music, and more of an "authentic artist" or whatever; fortunately for them their claims can't really be proved to be false! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.76.44 (talk) 02:20, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Toni Morrison, perhaps?

In The Bluest Eye, Toni Morrison often described different tones of voice as having colors. Blue and Green words, for example, seem to be more soothing tones, while black words are hateful and red words are angry or hurt. Yellow seems to be a more neutral tone. In the same book, she describes certain characters feeling colors. Cynthia-Coriníon (talk) 21:18, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Add Amy Beach??

Amy Beach should be added, but I've never edited a list before. So if someone else would do it, I'd appreciate it. Fan of composer Rebecca Clarke (talk) 03:39, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Christine Nagel

Can we add Christine Nagel, who allegedly has synesthesia: “she sees and feels scents.” Bearian (talk) 13:53, 14 September 2024 (UTC) Bearian (talk) 13:53, 14 September 2024 (UTC)