Talk:Lucille Ball/Archive 1

Archive 1

Discussion

Lucille Ball has not one 13 Emmy's, according to the official Emmy website, she was NOMINATED 13 times, and won 4 competitive awards. She is not the person with th emost Emmy's -----pallen@olp.net

Is there a similar museum for Lucille Ball in the California Universal Studios?

Zerbey 20:51, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Needs more discussion of Here's Lucy, The Lucy Show, and Life with Lucy, or at least links to them.

Socialist Grandfather?

Is this correct? If it is so be it, but I find it odd to put her grandfather's political leanings in the opening paragraphs since it really adds nothing to the article. Perhaps the author meant to write "socialite," it seems to make more sense here. I didn't want to change it myself in case it really is supposed to read "socialist."

Trivia

A few months back I made the 'trivia' section and listed it in chronological order by date. I know someone flagged it saying the section didn't look good, but I think it looked a lot better than listed all of her awards/honors in one paragraph as it is now. Can't we put it back the way it was? It looks awful now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shadow2700 (talk • contribs) 00:36, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

I was appauled to see that someone vandalized Lucy's page, saying "she was f*cked by many rapist."(Without the star in the curse word!). I deleted it, knowing this is not true. Sime also, when Rhode Island is mention, put, Rhode Island is the dumbest mostest dumbest state ever. I deleted that line as well. I think this article needs a clean-up! --71.229.59.237 01:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Source please

I have never seen anywhere before the allegation that 1950's actress Suzan Ball was any relation to Lucille Ball. Could someone please source this?

Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:05, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Star Trek/Mission: Impossible

After buying out her ex-husband's share of the studio, Ball functioned as studio head but apparently had little direct involvement in production. For instance, she apparently completely misunderstood the premise of one of the company's most (belatedly) famous productions, Star Trek thinking it was a contemporary drama about actresses.

• I'm reasonably sure this is inaccurate. Gene Roddenberry talked closely with Lucille Ball, and she believed in Star Trek's vision of the future, and that's why she supported keeping it on the air. There was a special in the past couple years on PBS, that said she took two chances in keeping, and that was Star Trek and Mission: Impossible. - AJHalliwell 04:56, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm going to remove that part of the article if it hasn't been already. There is no evidence to support it and apparently evidence to the contrary. Theshibboleth 07:48, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

On the subject of Trek and M:I the main article says: "Desilu produced several other shows, most notably the sitcom 'Mothers-In-Law'." I have never even heard of that show. If the "most notably" language is to be used clearly it needs to be used for Trek. MichaelSH 01:05, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Mother's-In-Law

Mother's-In-Law was a dreadful throwback of a sitcom in the late 1960s time period. It starred Eve Arden, Kay Ballard, Herbert Rudley, and Roger C. Carmel. I found it to be unwatchable. Desi Arnaz was a producer, I believe. — 70.108.189.231 20:31, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The title is The Mothers-In-Law, no apostrophe. It was from Desi Arnaz Productions, not Desilu. — Walloon 06:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Clown schtick section

I don't understand the point of this. The opening paragraph suggests a common theme of either Lucy clowning, or attempting to be some kind of performer, but the examples don't all lend themselves to this theme. I can think of other examples where she clowned or jumped on the opportunity to put on a show or take to the stage that are not mentioned so why just these examples? It looks very disjointed and random, and the choices seem to reflect a POV - ie it looks like a list of someone's favourite episodes and some of the descriptive text is clearly POV. Ball used physical comedy extensively so I can't see any reason, for example, for singling out the candy conveyor belt episode. If it's iconic (and perhaps it is) it should be on the I Love Lucy page, but I don't understand why it's here. The writing style is also very unencyclopedic and looks more like the blurbs you would see in a TV guide or on the back of a DVD case. Rossrs 15:56, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

oh right. It is on the I Love Lucy page so that begs the question : why is it duplicated here? Rossrs 16:02, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I removed this - this is duplicated on the I Love Lucy page, and this page is more her biographical info. There may be some overlap of information (ie, some of the "firsts" that Ball did in TV) but that information about the show clearly belongs on the show's page. NickBurns 20:02, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

At the age of 2, Lucy dropped out of high school

That can't be right. That can't be right becauseshe would have droped out in the age of a4 to 177 not 2 and 1st of all she wasn't in school at the age of 2 and second she couldn't have droped out then if she couldn't speak for herself considerind that se could't say much at all and third she had a respectible family they wouldn't have up and let her drop out of school.That is myreason

In 1825 after a romance with a local bad boy (Johnny DeVito),

That can't be right, either.

Can anyone sort this biographical data?

• At the age of 2, Lucy dropped out of high school. In 1825 after a romance with a local bad boy

• She moved back to New York City in 1902 to become an actress and''

Help needed to sort this out and check the entire document over, c'mon you Lucy fans out there, there must be an American queen out there who knows this stuff, i'm a British queen and her impact here was much less, lol. --Brideshead 17:46, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

A quick Google search shows several sources saying she dropped out at 15 years of age. 70.153.252.105 17:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Another point is that a recent documentary on the History Channel states she was raised in Binghamton, New York. That's in the same ballpark as Jamestown.

House Un-American Activities Committee

Ball survived this encounter with the HUAC, naming no names. Well, most people survived. In fact, they all did. Can we re-phrase this sentence to make it a little less dramatic? 207.172.222.90 00:56, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Death

I have just glanced at this Biography and find this lacking one major event. I do not see her Death of April 26, 1989 listed anywhere. Surely someone else has caught this too right? Any reason? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.13.105.138 (talk • contribs)

(Different Surfer than that which posted directly above) Absolutely. I agree. It is the spookiest Wikipedia entry I have come across, and it is all in the present tense when we are talking about the biography of a dead female actress. What gives? Have I stumbled upon the Cult of Lucy by accident and spoiled the party?

-Just Wondering, Califonia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.165.106.23 (talk • contribs)

It's vandalism, ongoing from a series of AOL IP addresses. Given the way AOL hands out IPs, it's almost impossible to block the vandal. But if it continues for much longer I may drop semi-protection on the article just to get it to stop for a while. - TexasAndroid 19:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

And there we go. The vandalism ramped up in frequency, so semi-protection has been dropped on the page. - TexasAndroid 19:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Where is the vandalism? I have not see anything that appears to be vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.100.65 (talk • contribs)

Constantly inserting totally false information, in this case reverting an article about someone who's been dead for many years into an article that makes it look like she's still alive, is vandalism. - TexasAndroid 19:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

One thing about the "Desilu" shows listed here:

...many of them were not actually produced BY Desilu. "Make Room for Daddy", "Andy Griffith", "Dick Van Dyke", "I Spy" and others were Sheldon Leonard-produced shows which were filmed at Desilu Studios, and thus bore the logo in-credit. The others listed in that paragraph ("Our Miss Brooks", "The Untouchables", "Star Trek", "Mission: Impossible") were in fact from Desilu and/or its successor Paramount Television. ElCartero 05:27, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Changes

Hi all. I was just curious as to why I keep seeing different versions of this article. They seem to change constantly. First it will say that she is still alive, and then it will say that she is dead? What gives? -- 172.162.129.51 18:48, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, wikipedia articles change constantly. It's not clear if there was vandalism here or simply confusion on the part of one of the editors, doing some copyediting. If you see this happen again, please post a note at my talk page, as well as on this page, if you don't mind. Thanks. John Broughton | Talk 03:38, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Camerawork Details

It seems like an out-of-place paragraph or two in the I Love Lucy section about the camerawork; while relevant to the show, has essentially nothing to do with Lucille Ball. should remove, I think. Personamb 03:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

No names to name

I removed:

"Ball named no names in her encounter with the HUAC."

How could she name names when she didn't know anyone to name? In order for that line to be valid, someone needs to show that she actually knew communists in Hollywood. There's no proof that she knew any communists in the industry. Also, is there evidence that she was even asked if she knew any communists in Hollywood by the HUAC? Hence the obvious deletion. Jtpaladin 23:25, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I<3Lucille Ball

Lucille Ball is Dead

See the above discussion about her death Talk:Lucille_Ball#Death.

Months later this page is still plagued with vandals adding/removing/changing information to make it appear she is still alive. Maybe this page should be semi-protected? akuyume^T_C 02:42, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Ask on WP:RFPP, but many people are watching this page to see if the vandal comes back or not. Miranda 03:11, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

This is, IMHO, the work of one person. No idea why he's so fixated on this one act of vandalism, but he is. For now, best is just to revert him and let the admins block him each time he returns. - TexasAndroid 12:47, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

People following this discussion might be interested in edits to the article a few minutes before this date stamp. Semi-protection only gets you so far. Darkspots 01:27, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Technicolor Tessie

Her nickname while at MGM in the 1940's was Technicolor Tessie as per many resources on the web including IMDB and TCM (www.tcm.com/thismonth/article/?cid=147380) Bjbyrne 19:46, 9 July 2007 (UTC)bjbyrne

If the source is reliable, then we should include that into the article. Miranda 21:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Queen Mary

I was watching the Discovery Channel, on a documentary on Lucy and they said she haunts the RSM Queen Mary. There is nothing on the haunting on either page. Miranda 12:57, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

This trivia section was added to the article and I've removed it: some of it is already in the article, some things are inconsequential and it was full of typos. In any case this kind of section shouldn't appear in this fashion. Anything notable that isn't already in the piece can be integrated into appropriate places - that's why I moved it here. Tvoz |talk 07:48, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

First infodump:

• Received the Women's international center Living Legacy Award posthumously in 1990.

• Originally interred at Forest Lawn Hollywood Hills, Los Angeles Califroina. Columbarium of Radiant Dawn, Court of Remembrance. in 2003, she was re-interred in the ball family plot in Lake View Cemetery, Jamestown, New York.

• A comment from a member of the preview audience of Follow the Fleet 1936 about bit-player ball " You might give the tall gum chewing blonde more parts and see if she can't make the grade - a good gamble.

• Ball and Barbara Pepper met early in their careers when they were both Goldwyn Girls and remained life long friends.

• Mother of Lucie Arnaz and Desi Arnaz .Jr.

• During Barbara Walter's interview, Jane Fonda claims that her father Henry Fonda was deeply in love with Ball and that the two were " very close" during the filming of Yours, Mine and Ours 1968.

• Was the first woman to own her own Film Studio.

• Born a Brunette

• She signed her first promotional agreement with Max Factor in 1935 and again in 1942. Of all the stars, she had the longest association with the Max Factor Company.

• Once registered as a Voter for the Communist party as a favor to her grandfather.

• Lucy and her son,Desi Arnaz.Jr, appeared together on the very first cover of TV Guide magazine in 1953.

• Died the moring of April 26, 1989, the fifty-sixth brithday of her friend Carol Burnett. That afternoon Burnett received the flowers that ball had ordered for her birthday

• During the 1933 filming of Roman Scandals 1933 young Lucille Ball, portraying a slave girl, needed to have her eyebrows entirely shaved off. They never grew back.

• Her last public appereance before her death was during the 61st Academy Awards in 1989.

• Before her movie career, Lucille was a Model at Hattie Carneigeie in New York. she mainly modeled heavyfur coats, because she was startlingly thin as a young lady.

• Lucy and Desi Arnaz began I Love Lucy in 1951 in the hopes of saving their crumbling marriage.

• She was fired from woriking at an Ice Cream Store because she kept forgetting to put bananas in banana splits.

• she put her Chesterfield Cigarettes in a Phillip Morris package to please her sponsor of the I Love Lucy 1951 show.

• TV Guide picked her as the greatest TV Star of all time.

• Was one of the 20 original Goldwyn Girls along with Virginia Bruce, Ann Dvorak, Paulette Goddard and Betty Grable.

• Born at 5:00 pm.

• Second Cousim of Actress Suzan Ball.

• For many years durin their Marriage, Lucy and Desi Arnaz hid the fact that she was born six years older then him by splitting the difference in their ages. She [ born in 1911 ] said she was born in 1914 and he [ born in 1917 ] also said he was born in 1914.

• Was know for a while as Dianne Belmont back when she was a model.

• Pictured on a 34 cents USA commemorative postage stamp in the Legends of Hollywood series Issured 6 in August of 2001

• Inducted into the National Women's Hall of Fame in 2002

• Her favorite movie she made was The Big Street 1942. Up to her death she resented AMPAS for not recogninizing her performance in the movie by including her for an [

• On her last Television appearances was in 1989 on the 62nd Academy Awards, with Bob Hope, announcing the nominations and winner of Best Picture.

• Stricken by Rheumatoid arthritis early in her modeling Career and spent 2 years re-learning how to walk.

• Filed for a divorce from her husband Desi Arnaz, the day following the last day filming The Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour 1957. March 3 1960.

---

And now this and more trivia was dumped into the article - again, much of the notable parts are already in the article, much is irrelevant. This is not how articles are written - if someone wants to take the notable material, source it, and piost it in appropriate places in the article that's fine. But unsourced infodumps do not belong here. Please discuss, don't just dump. Tvoz |talk 19:39, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Second infodump:

Received the Women's International Center (WIC) Living Legacy Award posthumously in 1990.

Originally interred at Forest Lawn (Hollywood Hills), Los Angeles, California,USA, Columbarium of Radiant Dawn, Court of Remembrance. In 2003, she was re-interred in the Ball family plot in Lake View Cemetery, Jamestown, New York.

A comment from a member of the preview audience of Follow the Fleet (1936) about bit-player Ball: "You might give the tall gum chewing blonde more parts and see if she can't make the grade - a good gamble."

Ball and Barbara Pepper met early in their careers when they were both "Goldwyn Girls" and remained lifelong friends.

Mother of Lucie Arnaz and Desi Arnaz Jr..

During a Barbara Walter's interview, Jane Fonda claims that her father, Henry Fonda, was deeply in love with Lucille Ball and that the two were "very close" during the filming of Yours, Mine and Ours (1968).

Was the first woman to own her own film studio.

Born a brunette.

She signed her first promotional agreement with Max Factor in 1935 and again in 1942. Of all the stars, she had the longest association with the Max Factor company.

Once registered as a voter for the Communist party as a favor to her grandfather.

Lucy and her son, Desi Arnaz Jr., appeared together on the very first cover of "TV Guide" magazine in 1953.

Died the morning of April 26, 1989, the fifty-sixth birthday of her friend Carol Burnett. That afternoon Burnett received the flowers that Ball had ordered for her birthday.

During the 1933 filming of Roman Scandals (1933), young Lucille Ball, portraying a slave girl, needed to have her eyebrows entirely shaved off. They never grew back.

Before her movie career, Lucille was a model at Hattie Carnegie's in New York. She mainly modeled heavy fur coats, because she was startlingly thin as a young lady.

Lucy and Desi Arnaz began "I Love Lucy" (1951) in the hopes of saving their crumbling marriage.

She was fired from working at an ice cream store because she kept forgetting to put bananas in banana splits

She put her Chesterfield cigarettes in a Phillip Morris package to please her sponsor (of the "I Love Lucy" (1951) show).

TV Guide picked her as the greatest TV star of all time.

Was one of the 20 original "Goldwyn Girls", along with Virginia Bruce; Ann Dvorak; Paulette Goddard and Betty Grable.

Born at 5:00 pm.

Second cousin of actress Suzan Ball.

For many years during their marriage, Lucy and Desi Arnaz hid the fact that she was six years older then him by splitting the difference in their ages. She (born in 1911) said she was born in 1914 and he (born in 1917) also said he was born in 1914.

Was known for a while as Dianne Belmont back when she was a model.

Pictured on a 34¢ USA commemorative postage stamp in the Legends of Hollywood series, issued 6 August 2001.

Inducted into theNational Women's Hall of Fame in 2002.

Her favorite movie she made was The Big Street (1942). Up to her dying day, she resented AMPAS for not recognizing her performance in the movie by including her for an Academy Award nomination.

One of her last television appearances was in 1989 on the 62nd Accademy Awards, with Bob Hope, announcing the nominations and winner of Best Picture.

Stricken by rheumatoid arthritis early in her modeling career and spent 2 years re-learning how to walk.

[[Filed for a divorce from husband Desi Arnaz, the day following the last day of filming "The Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour" (1957)]]. [[[3 March 1960]]]

Measurements: 33-22 1/2 -34 (Source: Celebrity Sleuth magazine).

Biography in: "Who's Who in Comedy" by Ronald L. Smith. pg. 35-37. New York: Facts on File, 1992. ISBN 0816023387.

Felt that she did not deserve the title of "Queen of Comedy" and felt that it belonged to her idol, Carole Lombard.

While still contemplating whether to do the "I Love Lucy" (1951) shows, she claimed that in her dream, Carole Lombard came to her and told her to "Give it a whirl".

[[Was Frank Sinatra's first choice for the role of Laurence Harvey's mother in The Manchurian Candidate (1962)]]. He was only dissuaded when John Frankenheimer took him to see Angela Lansbury in a play.

Disliked any false form of a bird, she preferred to see them in person so she banned all pictures of birds from her house and any hotel room she was staying in.

Had a superstition about the letters A and R, which is why her character was named Lucy RicARdo in "I Love Lucy" (1951); Lucy CARmichael in "The Lucy Show" (1962); Lucy CARter in "Here's Lucy" (1968) and Lucy BARker in "Life with Lucy" (1986) (she was also married to 'Desi ARnaz'). She believed she didn't have luck in her career until she changed her name to Arnaz.

First cousin of Cleo Morgan, though they were raised as sisters.

Related by marriage to Sid Gould.

Related by marriage to Vanda Barra.

Was of Irish, Scottish, French, and English descent.

Named the Greatest TV Star of All Time by TV Guide.

Suffered a miscarriage with her and Desi Arnaz's first child in 1942.

Suffered a second miscarriage with her and Desi Arnaz's second child in 1949.

Suffered third miscarriage in 1950 with husband Desi Arnaz.

Is portrayed by Gypsi DeYoung in The Scarlett O'Hara War (1980) (TV) and by Rachel York in Lucy (2003) (TV).

Comedian John Belushi was a fan of her and knew every detail of her life and career.

She was proud of her family and heritage. Her genealogy can be traced back to the earliest settlers in the colonies. One direct ancestor, William Sprague (1609-1675), left England on the ship "Lyon's Whelp" for Plymouth/Salem, Massachusetts. They were from Upwey, Dorsetshire, England. William, along with his 2 brothers, helped to found the city of Charlestown, Massachusetts. Other Sprague relatives became soldiers in the Revolutionary War and 2 of them became governors of the state of Rhode Island.

Lucy and Desi Arnaz were married a second time in 1946 in a church because his mother believed that the reason they didn't have children yet was because they were never married in the Catholic Church.

Lucy and Desi Arnaz were married at the Byram River Beagle Club in Connecticut in 1940.

Lucy filed for divorce from Desi Arnaz in the 1940s, but didn't go through with it because they reconciled.

Not long after the Arnazes bought their house on Roxbury Drive in Beverly Hills, it was featured in an episode of "ILove Lucy" (1951) (the one where Richard Widmark guest stars and she climbs over the fence to pick a grapefruit).

She named herself Diane Belmont after the Belmont racetrack in New York.

The day she first met Desi Arnaz, she had a black eye and a torn dress from filming a fight scene from the movie Dance, Girl, Dance (1940) and he didn't find her at all attractive until they met again later in the day when she had changed into her own clothes and makeup.

The original Desilu was Lucy and Desi's ranch in Chatsworth, CA. They named it after Douglas Fairbanks and Mary Pickford's estate "Pickfair".

Was once known as the "Chesterfield Girl" because she was the spokesmodel for Chesterfield cigarettes.

Was tutored in comedy by Buster Keaton.

When they were first married in 1940, Desi Arnaz had to give Lucy a ring from a drugstore because all jewelry stores were closed. She wore it for the rest of their marriage.

Her biological father died when she was three years old.

Older sister of Fred Ball.

Is portrayed by Frances Fisher in Lucy & Desi: Before the Laughter (1991) (TV).

Lucille's younger brother, Fred Ball (1915-2007), moved from their hometown of Jamestown, New York, to join Lucy in Hollywood in the 1930s. Fred often accompanied Desi's band on tour during the 40s and 50s, and also worked at Lucy and Desi's Desilu Productions sitting on the Board of Directors. In later years, Fred and his wife Zo operated a motel in Cottonwood, Arizona, where he died. Fred also shared the same birthday as his niece Lucie Arnaz.

In Italy, her films were often dubbed by Lidia Simoneschi or Wanda Tettoni, notably in the hilarious The Long, Long Trailer (1954). She was occasionally dubbed by Rosetta Calavetta, Dhia Cristiani, Rina Morelli and Renata Marini (in Stage Door (1937)).

Was in frail health following a heart attack in May 1988.

In 1966, it was reported in an annual stockholder's meeting that Lucille Ball's salary as President of Desilu Productions (1962-1967)was $100,000. Her acting fees for 1966 were $130,172.

I agree with Tvoz - well done for removing these. —Moondyne 04:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Her Father

He can't be a descendant of George Washington, as he had no children. I'm editting this to reflect that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.129.170.228 (talk) 21:01, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers priority assessment

Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie (talk) 10:06, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey, Canyouhearmenow...

What's with the high-handed deletions of material without explanation? I mean, I suppose it's your right to behave like an imperious twit, but really -- deleting sourced material without a word of explanation? For apparently no other reason than to feed your own vanity? ('Cause apparently if you didn't write it, it doesn't deserve a place in this article...)

Got a problem with a sourced, easily verifiable piece of material? Fine. Identify the nature of the problem, and make your argument against it. If enough people agree with you, out it goes. Heck, maybe you've got a really strong argument that will get us thinking "Hey, y'know, that Canyouhearmenow is actually a pretty clever person...." 192.30.202.20 (talk) 20:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I am unsure as to what your problem is. However, I have explained to you here [1], here [2]. I could go back all the way to when you started these edits. I have told you many times that the source you are giving is not a good source as it requires a subscription to be used. You continued in your pursuit and violate the WP:3RR rule as well. I am sorry you think I am taking this personally. I have no emotional connection to this page and I am not reverting edits that are constructive and usable. I would appreciate that you refrain from using this kind of wording as that violates WP:Civility. That in itself could cause you to be blocked from being able to edit on wikipedia. Thank you and lets move on. Canyouhearmenow 21:12, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I attempted to check out the references that were removed and couldn't get past the point where I had to pay to continue so couldn't verify the referenced information. That explicitly violates wikipedia's rules about what is a usable external link. See WP:LINKSTOAVOID. Also pointing to a website instead of a specific location in that website makes verification extremely difficult even if I were willing to pay to see the information. References don't need to be on the net to be usable and these references were effectively off the net as nobody can freely link to them. If the information is in a book or journal it can be referenced but the reference has to be extremely specific down to the issue and page. See WP:REFERENCE for more info. You might consider posting the information on the discussion page for comments and working with others to see about getting usable references. Also Wikipedia is not just a indiscriminate collection of information so some editorial pruning will occur. Just because you want something in the article does not mean it must stay if others disagree. --NrDg 21:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you NrDg. I am sure that 99.230.227.201 is trying to make a valid contribution, but I just could not get it through that the source was not usable. Hopefully, this will be the end of this and they may find a reference that can be used. Again, thank you. Canyouhearmenow 22:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup of the Lead

Hey, everyone. Let me just be upfront about it. When I first came to this site, the lead was in bad, bad shape. To say the grammar left a lot to be desired might be the understatement of the decade (I don't mean to be insult theh original author, but many changes were significant. Please, if you have been actively involved in the creation and/or maintenance of this article. I hope everyone understands that I had no intention to step on toes. We are all in this project together, and my goal is verifiable, encyclopedic content. Thanks! "Yes...It's Raining" 09:06, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

FA next?

Congrats on the well-deserved GA on this very notable subject. Hope to see it soon at FAC! JGHowes ^talk - 04:04, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I will start moving towards FA after I get back from my little rest. I did a lot of work on this article and I am very proud of it! Thanks for the notice! Canyouhearmenow 04:10, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Having seen many FA nominations succeed and fail over the last few years, I'd be surprised if "iconic" survived in the opening sentence. Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) says that the lead sentence should identify and establish the notability of the subject, and the overriding thing in any Wikipedia article is neutrality. It seems to me that if the very first adjective used to describe Ball is "iconic", it must be because it is an absolute fact and is the most important thing that could be said about her. This isn't the case. Lucille Ball may be "iconic" (whatever that means exactly, and if it means she's one of the most recognizable, influential and notable television performers, I would agree), but Wikipedia should be taking a more detached approach and conveying information in the simplest terms, especially in the first sentence. We shouldn't be using with such authority, a word that is difficult to either measure or define. "Glamour girl" is also a POV, not to mention sexist, term, and it doesn't actually link to an article titled "Glamour girl". It should be changed to the correct and neutral word, "model", which is used throughout the article and in its categorization.

Another thing to remember is that the lead is intended as a summary of the article. So back to "iconic". It's the very first thing mentioned in the lead sentence, but the very last thing mentioned in the article, and then it's only mentioned in a couple of sentences, without any great insight or attempt to fit it into any kind of cultural or historical perspective. TV Land and Entertainment Weekly probably got it right, who knows, but are they really the most authoritative and unbiased sources for claims of Ball's "iconic" status? Doesn't TV Land have a vested interest in maintaining the longevity of Lucille Ball's appeal? When they ran their survey did they ensure that everyone participating understood the definition of the word "iconic"? Who did they target for their survey? Was it a cross section of the general population or a cross section of TV Land's viewing audience, who may well have been predisposed to consider Lucille Ball in the most glowing terms? Bearing this in mind, should so much credence be given to this survey that it forms part of the defining sentence of Lucille Ball? My personal opinion is that "iconic" is a form of shorthand that avoids any in-depth discussion or rationale, and I think Wikipedia should be aiming for something more substantial and sticking with terminology that is universally definable and measurable beyond question. I'd be interested to hear your opinion on this subject. The article is very well crafted though, deserves its GA status, and I hope it is listed as a FA before too long. Rossrs (talk) 04:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

A quick google search resulted in many sources calling Lucille Ball an icon. For example Asher196 (talk) 04:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

My point exactly. You've given as an example a television production company promoting its documentary on Ball, with the aim of generating viewers. Not impartial. This does not address the comments I've made. A million google hits do not support the use of the word in the article as it is currently written. The problem is in the article, and the way it is written, not in the many google hits which would each have to examined one by one, and which can't be seen in the Wikipedia article. Rossrs (talk) 05:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

This seems like a non-issue. Just remove the word. Asher196 (talk) 05:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree it should be a non-issue. Except that the word was removed and then 23 minutes later it was reverted and the word was back. Otherwise I wouldn't bother making an issue of it. Rossrs (talk) 08:58, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I am the one who reverted the edit to put the word back. When dealing with celebrities of this caliber, one has to remember that their appeal goes far beyond a television screen. The arguement that you are posing reflects that you feel the word should not be used because TV Land or a production company has made her "Iconic" That is not even remotely true! There is not one place in the world that you could go that Lucille Ball's name is not recognized. This makes her "Iconic" I worked very hard on this article and got it to GAstatus. I was very careful of the verbiage that I used to get it there. There are celebrities that are a flash in the pan and their articles are written as press releases. In those cases, I feel that words should be monitored to keep out POV, however, in this case, it is neither untrue or POV. She is "Iconic", "Cultish", "Campy" and a variable multitude of other words that do not even come close to POV to describe her and her body of work. I was never a huge fan of Lucille Ball's, but, I can assure you that as an historian and someone who probably knows more about her than even her family, I can assure you that her fame reaches farther than any of us could ever imagine. That makes her "Iconic" and this is why I placed the word in there and request that you appreciate that and not take it out. Thanks Canyouhearmenow 11:40, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I mostly agree with your viewpoint, but on a personal level. I am talking from a Wikipedia standpoint of neutrality. I did not say that TV Land etc made her "iconic". I said that it is not enough to justify using it here because that was the only source that was offered to back it up. "There is not one place in the world that you could go that Lucille Ball's name is not recognized." I doubt that is true, but in any case the article makes no mention of any impact outside of the U.S. If she's had a global impact, and it's an important enough point to bring into this discussion, why is this not mentioned in the article? The Time article that listed her as one of the 100 most influential people of the century also doesn't mention anything regarding global impact or even anything outside of the U.S. My doubts notwithstanding, I'm not disputing her global impact, because I honestly don't know how well known she is in Africa, Asia, Russia..... I am saying it hasn't been dealt with in the article.

I'm not completely opposed to the use of the word "iconic" in the article. I am opposed to it being used in the opening sentence as the very first adjective used to describe her because that offers a value judgement without context. Wikipedia should stepping back from the subject and offering the facts, without taking it upon itself to quantify or evaluate the contributions of a particular subject. As part of the discussion within the legacy section, I think the article would benefit from some deeper discussion of her wider impact, geographically and beyond the time in which she lived. If someone of note said she is "iconic" it's fine to include that as an attributed comment, (and the comments in the "Legacy" section are fine) but the way it read in the lead, Wikipedia was saying it. There's a huge difference. The first sentence is supposed to be "just the facts", a dry but explanatory statement about who the person was.

Some examples :

Leonardo da Vinci: "Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci' (pronunciation (help·info)), April 15, 1452 – May 2, 1519) was an Italian polymath, having been a scientist, mathematician, engineer, inventor, anatomist, painter, sculptor, architect, botanist, musician and writer." - no mention of his genius or his profound impact upon the world, although nobody would deny them -just a rundown on who he was, and what he did.

Albert Einstein: "Albert Einstein (German: IPA: [ˈalbɐt ˈaɪ̯nʃtaɪ̯n] (Audio file) (help·info); English: IPA: /ˈælbɝt ˈaɪnstaɪn/) (March 14, 1879 – April 18, 1955) was a German-born theoretical physicist." - it doesn't get much dryer than this, but it's enough. It's establishes who he was. The article goes on to establish his stature.

George Washington: "'George Washington (February 22, 1732[1][2][3] – December 14, 1799) served as the first President of the United States, (1789–1797),[4] and led the Continental Army to victory over the Kingdom of Great Britain in the American Revolutionary War (1775–1783)."

Nelson Mandela: "Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela (IPA: [xolíɬaɬa mandéːla]; born 18 July 1918) is a former President of South Africa, the first to be elected in fully representative democratic elections."

Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom: "Elizabeth II (Elizabeth Alexandra Mary;[1] born 21 April 1926) is the queen regnant of 16 independent states and their overseas territories and dependencies."

Victoria of the United Kingdom: "Victoria (Alexandrina Victoria; 24 May 1819 – 22 January 1901) was the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland from 20 June 1837, and the first Empress of India from 1 May 1876, until her death on 22 January 1901."

Mother Teresa : "Mother Teresa (Albanian: Nënë Tereza, Agnes Gonxhe Bojaxhiu, Macedonian: Агнес Гонџа Бојаџиу, Latinic: Agnes Gondža Bojadžiu; IPA: ['agnɛs 'gɔndʒa bɔ'jadʒu]) (August 26, 1910 – September 5, 1997) was an Albanian-born Roman Catholic nun with Indian citizenship[2] who founded the Missionaries of Charity in Kolkata (Calcutta), India in 1950."

The Featured articles, Judy Garland and Bette Davis, both of whom could be considered as "iconic" read as follows:"Judy Garland (born Frances Ethel Gumm; June 10, 1922 – June 22, 1969) was an American actress and singer." and "Ruth Elizabeth "Bette" Davis (April 5, 1908 – October 6, 1989) was an American actress of film, television and theatre."

There's more of course, because this is the accepted Wikipedia standard, but that's enough. These are all strong, well written, comprehensive articles about highly notable and very famous people. The first sentence of their articles does not attempt to evaluate their impact, or to set them apart. I would venture to say that the fame and influence of each of these people (excluding Garland and Davis) would outstrip Lucille Ball's, but that's irrelevant - this is not a competition. I don't see that celebrities, regardless of their caliber, should be treated differently. The article establishes that Lucille Ball made a significant contribution, and that's sufficient. Please leave the word out until discussion is concluded. The word was originally removed by an anon, then by User:Asher196 (admittedly Asher originally was in favour of keeping it, but then did remove it), and myself. Three editors that feel it conveys POV. Rossrs (talk) 12:38, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I can see that you are very passionate about this issue. However, in the same breath, I can tell you that this article is a small part of what it could be. Ball's global impact is mind boggling. In Africa in the 1960's she was reveared as saint. The Japanese had a period in which all of their women began to act and look like Ball in the 1950's in regards to her I Love Lucy character. The word is not wrongfully placed. It is an issue of semantics. The Garland and Davis articles that you mentioned, I also have contrinuted to. These two performers both respected in their fields could also be considered iconic. As I understand your passion, I will refrain from putting the word back in, however, I will research the issue and speak with some of my editor friends who do FA and GA reviews. Should they say it is appropriate, I will replace the word back into the article. I hope you can respect that. I appreciate your fevor on this matter! Canyouhearmenow 13:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Please remember that I am only speaking about using the word in the first sentence. You are doing a good job of explaining the word here on the talk page, but it's not in the article. That's a big point, and it's not merely semantics. The article itself has to support it and provide context. For example, the comments you've made about Africa and Japan would be strong additions to the article. Her global impact is "mind boggling" but there is not a single word in the article to reflect that. Rossrs (talk) 20:59, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Added category

I added Category:Television preservation due to her importance to the matter, since she is known to of played a part in showing the value of such act. Retro Agnostic (talk) 19:05, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Correction About Lucy's Relationship with Ginger Rogers

Under the Early Life and Career section, there was a section about Lucy appearing in some of the old Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers' movies. Part of this paragraph reads, "She can also be seen as one of the featured models in the Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers film "Roberta" (1935) and briefly as the flower girl in another Astaire-Rogers 1935 film, "Top Hat," where she met her lifelong friend, Ginger Rogers."

This is incorrect. Lucy is a distant cousin of Rogers on her mother's side of the family, therefore, saying that they "met" on set, is a bit misleading. So I edited this and changed the end to "Ginger Rogers was a distant cousin of Lucille's through her mother's side" as well as added the movie "Follow the Fleet," as Lucy also had a brief role in that.

I left in the referance used, although I have no idea where the person who originaly wrote this section got the idea that Lucy and Ginger met on the set of "Roberta" and where "friends" thereafter, as nowhere in the article referanced does it say that. Only that "...she [Lucy] wound up appearing in over 60 movies with such established stars such as Katherine Hepburn, Ginger Rogers and Bob Hope (who was later to become a life long friend)." However, this suggest her relationship as a good friend of Bob Hope, not Ginger Rogers. So, while I did leave the reference in that section, feel free to remove it, as I don't see how it even relates and doesn't really need to be there.

~Pink Moonlight (December 4, 2009) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pink Moonlight (talk • contribs) 12:04, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

I looked around and found a reference stating Rogers and Ball being distant cousins, according to Lucy's daughter. So I added a reference link to that.

Pink Moonlight (talk) 09:32, 17 October 2010 (UTC)Pink Moonlight

I removed the last edit due to the fact that the source was a non-verifiable blog. In order for inclusion it needs to come from a verifiable source.--Canyouhearmenow 11:36, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Question

Why is Madeline Jane Dee listed as one of Lucy and Desi's children in one section of this article? That has never been substantiated, since no one in the Arnaz family will consent to DNA testing.

This was mere WP:Vandalism. It has been reverted. Canyouhearmenow 22:00, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Removed scan of letter signed by Lucille Ball because it "has no importance to the article"? Does everyone agree with that?

I see that a scan of a letter personally signed by Lucille Ball was removed because one person thought that it had "no importance to the article". Couldn't we discuss this in a forum before permanently deep-sixing this?

Maybe it is not of "vital importance" to the article, but Lucille Ball was - and continues to be - one of the world's most beloved personalities, and it certainly adds interest and appeal to the article. I thought I was being very generous to donate that from my private collection for public domain, and to have it immediately axed, because one person didn't think it was important, was kind of a nasty and insulting slap in the face.

Have you seen how much trouble and rigamorole it is to get copyright to publish photos in Wikimedia Commons? I signed away the rights and donated that for public domain because I thought it would be of historical interest to Lucy's fans. How many people do you know who have a letter from Lucille Ball? OK, it was typed by her secretary, Wanda Clark, but that is Lucy's actual signature. Does everything have to be essential to an article? Can't we leave it in to show that Lucille Ball truly cared about her fans, and personally responded to their letters? And that's why she stayed on top for so long? And continues to be, even after her death? And has left a legacy that is continuing to thrive because she cared about her fans?

I think that letter is of unique historical interest, and should be reconsidered for inclusion in the article. This article is not exactly cluttered with unnecessary photos, and certainly this one item of interest could remain, and the sun will still rise in the east tomorrow. JGKlein (talk) 04:20, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

JGKlein, I agree that the letter is of importance and I certainly didn't mean for it to seem nasty or to be a slap in the face. However, the point remains that this is an encyclopedia and not a museum. Adding it to Wikipedia Commons is a great thing because now editors who are looking for signed notes from her will be able to find it and use it due to your generosity! We must always remember WP:NOT. Things that should be included in this article are things from her career that are dealing with the article and the article only. If there were are a section that talked about how Lucy would always send notes of thank you to her fans, then this would be a perfect thing to add to it. I have several pieces of memorabilia that I would love to include into the articles I work on, but they just don't have anything to do with the article itself. I have worked hard on this article to get it to the point of WP:GA. I am all for having stuff that enhances the article, but unfortunately this is not one of them. Thank you and I invite anyone else who would like to chime in on this. Canyouhearmenow 11:57, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I have pondered the question of whether autographs are generally appropriate for actor and entertainer articles (they are common in statesman/writer articles). I will make a discussion at WT:ACTOR and see if someone responds. decltype (talk) 09:46, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

I've commented there. Abrazame (talk) 01:46, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I have an idea for a compromise. How about if I crop it down to just her signature with a caption that says "Signature on letter, 1982". And leave out the rest? I think her fans would enjoy seeing a small box that says simply "Love, Lucy". This extraordinary woman was, and continues to be, one of the most recognized and beloved personalities in the world, who has brought joy and laughter to billions of people. She and Desi Arnaz had amazing foresight and intuition by insisting on producing I Love Lucy the way they did, with three cameras and on FILM instead of live, like most other shows in TV's infancy, against the network's strong objections. The method was revolutionary, and because of that, the show will continue to run for eternity and delight many new generations of fans. I believe it is most definitely of encyclopedic value to show how she personally responded and signed letters to her fans!

I have another proposal for a caption under the "cropped signature block only" version: "Lucille Ball often responded to fan correspondence and personally signed letters to them, as shown in the above scan from 1982." That would definitely be of encyclopedic value and contribute to the article. JGKlein (talk) 06:30, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

JGKlein, I don't have an issue with the signature at all. What I have an issue with is the signatures relevance to the article. All of the photos that are associated with the article are things that are either spoken about within the article or are from notable times during that period. There is nothing within the article that speaks of Lucille being kind to her fans and sending them autographs or anything of that nature. I think it would be an appropriate inclusion should something be added to the article and then properly sourced to show that she was generous to her fans in such a way. At that point adding the signature card would be most appropriate. As with many articles within wikipedia, the articles are weighed down with things that really don't apply directly to the focus. We have been cognizant to use caution with this article. I suggest that you do some searching and find some sources or cites that show Lucille's love for her fans and lets add the verbiage into the "later years" section. When you find that, then lets add the signature which would be a wonderful addition to further prove your point. How does that sound? Canyouhearmenow 10:59, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a good compromise to me.Kennethjiles (talk) 13:56, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Why does the template say Steve Yelle? 0.0

But Lucille Ball is named Lucille Ball, NOT Steve Yelle! People are so weird like this on Wikipedia. I know her on I Love Lucy but I don't like weird names for girls like Steve Yelle! What's that supposed to mean?

71.254.1.102 (talk) 04:10, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Just a passing vandalism (probably because of the Google/I Love Lucy logo today). Shearonink (talk) 05:22, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

My Little Edit Fest

Sorry folks for my little edit fest. I just wanted to add in a blurb about her being recognized with the Google Doodle, but I made an error with my wiki markup, and correcting it was a pain because I ran into the spam filter for an old link to medaloffreedom.com, which I visited and it really is spam. I replaced the citation with a link I found from the List of Presidential Medal of Freedom recipients page. After monkeying around with it for twenty minutes I managed to get everything back to more or less normal. Sorry for mucking it up on a day that this page is probably getting more traffic than usual... --—Cliffb (talk) 07:57, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

You can only make a wiki markup error if you are contributing. As such, whoopsie daisy! At least you managed to fix it in a reasonable amount of time and I had a chance to enjoy my favorite drink, the drink of new found knowledge. But, thanks for letting us know why the page WAS a bit mucked up for a bit. Wzrd1 (talk) 22:52, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

mis-attributed and/or original research

This paragraph's material does not appear to be contained in the attributed sources:

• In 1927 Ball dated Johnny DeVita, a gangster's son. DeeDee was unhappy with the relationship, but did nothing about it. She expected the romance to burn out in a few weeks. When that didn't happen DeeDee took advantage of Lucille's desire to be in show business and "allowed" her to go to the John Murray Anderson School for the Dramatic Arts in New York City.[3] There, Ball attended with fellow actress Bette Davis. Ball went home a few weeks later when drama coaches told her that she "had no future at all as a performer."[4]

The material is presented in this source pg 22-28 but some of the details are different. She dated him at 14 which would have been 1925 or 1926, DeVita's father was rumored to be in illegal activity, but the source says nothing about organized crime, her mother attemped to stop the dating at various times, and her mother raised money to send Lucy to the school. I didn't find the quotation "had no future at all as a performer." in a source that predates this Wikipedia article. I am not well versed in the sources for her so maybe someone who is can attibute to the right sources or change some wording. Ward20 (talk) 01:36, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

I ended up re-doing that whole section - deleted errors, added references and adjusted text. About DeVita, I adjusted the wording in that paragraph to reflect the newly-cited sources. Kanfer/(Page 22) says that "he had acquired a reputation as a local hood" and Brady/(Page 20) says that DeVita was 'a local hoodlum' who was arrested in Buffalo in the 30s for 'possessing and transporting bootleg whiskey and carrying a gun without a permit'.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Shearonink (talk • contribs)

Much better, thanks. Ward20 (talk) 06:05, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

I am glad you did the rewrite. I was going to do it myself but ran into a time constraint issue so I have not gotten to it yet. Thanks for doing that!Canyouhearmenow 12:54, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Replacing File:LucyEthel I Love Lucy.png with another photo?

The "File:LucyEthel I Love Lucy.png" is a good photo but from a copyright material. So I wonder if File:Lucy wins racehorse 1958.JPG could replace the other photo. there are other photos uploaded by We hope which are good use. --Gh87 (talk) 15:43, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Citations

Clearly the citations in this article need some maintenance: some appear multiple times, others appear both in the references and further reading, quite possibly there are other problems too. I will start cleaning the article up. There are of course lots of different ways of "cleaning an article up". If you particularly wish to do it differently, just say so and you can take over: as long as the article ends up tidy. --Mirokado (talk) 23:03, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

There were several different ways of citing Kanfer 2003 in the article, confusing both for the reader and the editor. I have converted a couple of citations to start with, to the {{sfn}} template and friends consistently, which play nicely with the {{cite web}} and friends templates already used in the article. The short references are now "Kanfer 2003 p. 24." instead of "Kanfer, page 24" etc (p. and page, terminal full stop were already used inconsistently in the article so this does not count as a change of maintained style) and the citations are sorted by author surname which is helpful for the reader once short form references are used. While doing this I corrected the spelling of Lucille's name and added an ISBN, so it is clear that this exercise will bring more than just cosmetic changes. --Mirokado (talk) 00:14, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I have now dealt with most of the multiple citations. I have noticed that there is misuse of the quote parameter for a summary of what the reference refers to, instead of a direct quote from the source. It should already be clear from the article text what the reference is supporting so in most cases this additional material can be removed. If necessary I will update the article text as well. There is also a problem with google book links which point only to a top-level summary of the book: google book search is personalised, meaning to that one person's search link is useless for anyone else. If we provide full publishing details it is easy for someone to search for any on-line book contents. As I go through the article I will make other changes for general consistency. --Mirokado (talk) 02:01, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

I've started looking at the problematical quote parameters. The first ref I looked at does not contain any of the information it is being used to support, so I have replaced it by a tag (I'll try to find suitable refs too). It is a good potential reference nevertheless, so I will leave it here for now. --Mirokado (talk) 21:32, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I've removed a reference to tribe.com: "78,509 free, member-created groups for every interest - discussions, photos, listings and more", which is not a reliable source, and replaced it by three {{cn}} for now. Also removed content which failed verification in November 2011 and added a new failed verification tag.

I've also started to move ref definitions used more than once to the reference list. This means we can find a definition referred to by name in a predictable place. --Mirokado (talk) 23:24, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I have removed the following, which was sourced from a site which itself copies this article: "Ball's business instincts were often astonishingly sharp, and her love for Arnaz was passionate, but her relationships with her children were sometimes strained. Lucie Arnaz, her daughter, spoke of her mother's "controlling" nature." This can be restored if we can find a reliable independent source for it. --Mirokado (talk) 13:03, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

File:Lucille Ball Commutative Stamp 2001.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Lucille Ball Commutative Stamp 2001.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations What should I do? Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 18:37, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Another movie

Not mentioned here is the 1954 movie 'The Long,Long Trailer' distributed by Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and starred Lucille Ball, Desi Arnaz, Marjorie Main, and Keenan Wynn. Musicwriter (talk) 03:00, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

File:Lucille Ball - Mame publicity.JPG Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Lucille Ball - Mame publicity.JPG, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests May 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Lucille Ball - Mame publicity.JPG) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 01:59, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Lucille Ball/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

This article is missing some footnotes. This could be remedied, or else it may put its GA status at risk. Anything else I'm missing? --George Ho (talk) 05:09, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

This article has been altered a great deal since I took it to a WP:GA status. There have been many additions to the article that I feel are not appropriate or even relevant. I do think its time for the article to be reassessed to bring it back up to the standards it was at when I was continually working on it. I would suggest that one looks first at all of the dead links or non reliable sources. I believe some of the sentence structuring has been compromised from its original formatting simply because of the amount of contribution to the page. I do not feel it will take much to get the article back into GA condition, but I do agree it needs to be done! --Canyouhearmenow 10:40, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

This appears to have been abandoned by the nominator so I will close it. No real reason concerning the GA criteria has been given for delisting so I will close it as keep. AIRcorn (talk) 11:32, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Relooking at this I jumped the gun. there are too many unreferenced paragraphs and tags on this article for it to be considered Good. Retroactively changing the close to Delist. AIRcorn (talk) 01:29, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Recent changes in Category...was Ball a Vaudeville performer?

There is no information supported by reliable sources within this article stating that Ball was a Vaudeville performer. She was in a number of Broadway productions before the success of her television show, but so far as I can tell from the article she did not tour and was not part of the vaudeville circuits in the US. If a Category is added to an article, it must be supported by the article itself, not by what readers or editors think could be, might be, or must the (unverified) truth. If you think Ball was a Vaudeville performer, then please discuss it here on this page along with your sources first before reverting the present version. Thank you. Shearonink (talk) 07:07, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Which is your favorite I LOVE LUCY episode

Write your favorite I LOVE LUCY episode! And please explain why. Also write the best part of the episode.

I'll start: I love the episode where Lucy makes wine, and she's stomping around in the grapes. I love it when the natives were commenting on how big her feet were and Lucy was wrestling in the grapes! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.106.0.252 (talk) 17:46, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Inappropriate -this is not a fan magazine. Please keep to improving the article.Parkwells (talk) 14:39, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Lead too long

The lead is too long. It should be 4 normal sized paragraphs at most (see MOS:LEAD). Anyone want to take a go at trimming it? FurrySings (talk) 15:58, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Agree; will try to edit it.Parkwells (talk) 14:40, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Technical details for I Love Lucy

Earlier this morning, I cut passages relating to the new production methods utilised on the show believing them to be inappropriate here. The material did not seem to be strongly enough related to Lucille Ball herself, and were substantially longer than the mentions The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy currently have in this article. I have checked the linked articles on Arnaz, Freund and the three-camera set-up, and moved relevant details and citations to the I Love Lucy article where they seem most appropriate. Philip Cross (talk) 10:27, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Lucy the Race Car Driver

According to an episode of Bill Stern's Sports Newsreel radio show, Lucy drove in an automobile race, and was involved in a crash that was caught on newsreel cameras. And this led to her getting a Hollywood screen test. I'm not totally sure I got the details right, but Lucy herself appeared on the show to confirm Stern's story. But I don't seem to see anything else to support it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.55.235.203 (talk) 01:04, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

How did Lucy and Desi meet?

Given the importance of Desi Arnaz in Lucille Ball's life, I would think there would be more information on this page about how they met. "Ball had met and eloped with Cuban bandleader Desi Arnaz in 1940" on this page and "He went to Hollywood the next year to appear in the show's movie version at RKO, which starred Lucille Ball. Arnaz and Ball married on November 30, 1940." on Desi's page seems a little weak. Kjpires (talk) 19:21, 31 December 2014 (UTC) kjpires

Socialist?

While Ball did register as a communist to please her grandfather she was never active in any socialist or communist organization. Should she really be labeled as an American socialist in the categories the bottom of the page? Bjoh249 (talk) 08:20, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Pix

It would be good if we had a photo of her when she was young, like this one I happened across on Flickr. Sca (talk) 13:49, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Can somebody clean up the atrocious syntax?

There are numerous passages containing "and she" ("... the company that Arnaz and she formed") and other poorly constructed sentences. Can somebody fix these? I am not a regular enough contributor with the time or the fortitude. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robinbirk (talk • contribs) 15:08, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

References to Lucille Ball's sister

Some sources claim Ball had a sister:

• http://www.lucyfan.com/stillweek271.html
• https://www.geni.com/people/Lucille-Ball/6000000002921047652

Still others say she thought/called her cousin, her sister:

• http://www.lucy-desi.com/fan-central/supporting-cast/
• http://www.lucylounge.com/index.php?/topic/1416-cleo-smith-1919-2012/
• https://www.facebook.com/desiarnazsr/posts/387979381234602
• http://desiandlucy4ever.blogspot.com/2014/01/memories-of-lucille-ball-wanda-clark.html
• http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/american-actress-lucille-ball-with-her-cousin-cleo-morgan-news-photo/103741777#american-actress-lucille-ball-with-her-cousin-cleo-morgan-during-a-picture-id103741777
• https://books.google.com/books?id=vq2Zff8JZZ8C&pg=PT275&lpg=PT275&dq=%22Cleo+Morgan%22+%26+%27lucy%22&source=bl&ots=HFsNfol-ya&sig=RXIyqMqae3whJRee--XBPFC-hyA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj8tpmOuO7SAhUF5IMKHRjdDZkQ6AEINzAI#v=onepage&q=%22Cleo%20Morgan%22%20%26%20%27lucy%22&f=false

There's much more, but that's the general idea. X4n6 (talk) 05:52, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

@X4n6 -- Thanks for the research but I reviewed all the links above -- not only are they ALL unreliable (including geni.com), not one confirms any claim re "Maris Ball". You yourself describe the first two links as "Some sources claim Ball had a sister"; the rest you describe as "Still others say she thought/called her cousin, her sister". No offense, but none of this is remotely reliable and no mention can be made of any Maris, until her existence and relationship (if any) to Lucille Ball can be confirmed with reliable sources. Yours, Quis separabit? 14:54, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

@Rms125a@hotmail.com, with respect, I think you're missing my point: which was to say that sources have alternately claimed that Ball had a sister and that she treated her cousin as her sister. I wasn't defending the name of Maris Ball specifically, merely pointing to the sources - (which you asked for) - and suggesting that if we're going to be wholly accurate, it's likely worthy of inclusion in some manner. Even though we generally don't list cousins and/or extended relations. Also, I'd be cautious about being so dismissive of published books, or arguing that even long-term dedicated fansites, are unreliable - especially, if their information is also reliably sourced elsewhere. They often dig much deeper than more traditional sources providing only a cursory review. Cheers. X4n6 (talk) 05:55, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

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Birthplace?

A recent edit changed her birthplace from Jamestown, NY to Celoron, NY. The cited source says Jamestown. Her autobiography[5] says she was born in her grandparents home on Stewart Ave in Jamestown. Most references I have read place her birth in 60 Stewart Ave Jamestown and one or two in a suburb of Jamestown. 60 Stewart Ave seems to be somewhere between Jamestown and Celoron, NY. Anyone have a definitive answer? Ward20 (talk) 07:39, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

We have to rely on what the reliable sources state. If the preponderance of reliable sources state that her birthplace was Jamestown, then Jamestown it is. Also, something to keep in mind is that city/town boundaries do change over time, (I have no idea if this is true->) but it is possible that she was born in the Jamestown of 1911 & that the boundaries have changed since then. All that being said, according to the Jamestown's Official Ward Boundaries Map, it would appear that Stewart Avenue is completely within the boundaries of Jamestown NY. Shearonink (talk) 17:22, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

@Ward20 -- Agree with @Shearonink. All reliable sources indicate Ball was born in Jamestown, but raised in Celoron until her family returned to Jamestown after Ball's father's death, and lived for a time with Ball's mother's parents, the Hunts. Quis separabit? 17:28, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Stewart Ave, now Lucy Lane is according to this map:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Celoron,+NY+14701/@42.1022886,-79.2825104,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89d2a942541f31e1:0x2d0f80c1bd32b66e!8m2!3d42.1095021!4d-79.2831039

located in the south-west corner of Celoron NY bounded on the west and south by the town of Jamestown West. Celoron was incorporated in 1896 before her birth and there is no indication its boundaries changed since then. The Jamestown boundary is about 1.5 km to the east of her home. The reliable sources are not so reliable when the maps prove otherwise. 60 Lucy Lane is across the street from 69 Lucy Lane and both addresses are in Celoron. The article can and should state she was born in Celoron NY, a suburb of Jamestown. This way both towns are mentioned and everyone should be happy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ametrica (talk • contribs) 14:11, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Absolutely not. This is exactly the kind of investigation WP:OR forbids. If what you're saying is true then reliable sources will have figured it out. And if they haven't, then we'll just have to wait until they do. EEng 16:54, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Well, then Wikipedia is wrong and that would mean Wikipedia is not a reliable source.

Desi Jr. relationship statement is enigmatic, at best

The statement "Ball was outspoken against the relationship her son had with actress Patty Duke" is a head-scratcher without additional context. What year, for instance, did this relationship take place; how old were Desi Jr. and Patty at the time (I know she's several years older than he is)? What, at least briefly, were Lucy's issues with it? Someone please clarify these points in the article. 2601:545:8202:4EA5:A09C:DAE3:6B0B:9954 (talk) 01:23, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Dance, Girl, Dance

Dance, Girl, Dance 1940 110.175.82.149 (talk) 16:47, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Socialist grandfather

If the text refers to her "socialist grandfather", we should be told who he is and something about him. I think he's omitted from the discussion of her family, even though he's supposed to have influence over her into her 20s...--Jack Upland (talk) 09:46, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

O'Ball into Ball

Originally, Lucy's name was billed on I Love Lucy as Lucille O'Ball. Later the O' was dropped. I can't find any references to this, but I saw it on the original show. I'm curious what the facts are and why the change was made. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dstone2 (talk • contribs) 23:03, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Well that is demonstrably false. You are misremembering. Also, you don't have any sources which makes your claim more dubious. She was always known as Lucille Ball in both her personal and professional lives. I don't know how old you are, whether you would have watched the program as a child or not, but I can assure you that you're wrong. And I don't mean that coldly, but what you remember is simply not so. The brave celery (talk) 02:24, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

the lucy ricky tv movie 2021

she decided in the last moment of the show to let people think desi was silly.. she had 2 openings ready. one where desi enters and she says hi.. the other where he enters she doesnt notice it and he covers her eyes from beind with a big GUESS WHO.then she guesses various names until he gets angry and says its me ricky .she had planned the first one to avoid audience thinking ricky was silly but after she descivered his cheated on her she decided to get even and film the smart ricky version badly so as to eliminate it and then make well the version where desi appears silly and where she references cheating by naming men who might also enter without knocking.she took charge of the desilu company at that moment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.144.27.25 (talk) 08:28, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Citation for her appearance on Dick Cavett show

The article's reference to her appearance on the Dick Cavett show has a "Citation needed" tag. Here's are a couple of citations, in case someone wants to add it. I'd add a citation myself, but I'm shaky in my knowledge of how to create references. Omc (talk) 16:10, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6824580/

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/lucille-ball-nearly-killed-during-i-love-lucy-moment-1234993865/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfksOIWQVDA&t=2s

Contradictory info on the page

Near the top of the page, it states "The next year, she starred in Life with Lucy, which was, unlike her other sitcoms, not well-received; the show was cancelled after three months." Under "1980s" it states "Her 1986 sitcom comeback Life with Lucy, costarring her longtime foil Gale Gordon and co-produced by Ball, Gary Morton, and prolific producer Aaron Spelling, was cancelled less than two months into its run by ABC.". Which is correct? RRicci428 (talk) 14:46, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

A third child born before she was famous?

I have been told by people who lived in Jamestown New York that there was a third child that Lucy did not acknowledge 32.211.118.8 (talk) 12:57, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Comedian or comedienne for occupation in lead?

I noticed that the occupation "comedian" or "comedienne" was removed from Lucille Ball's list of occupations in both the article's lead and Infobox. While my knowledge of Lucille Ball is primarily limited to watching I Love Lucy and a few televised interviews, it is widely recognized that she was highly regarded as a comedian – almost as much as she was recognized as an actor, and definitely more than she was recognized as a studio executive or model. The Emmy Awards website describes her as an "actress, comedienne, model, film-studio executive, and producer." Other sources include:

• Lucille Ball - Hollywood Walk of Fame - "an American comedienne, film, television, stage and radio actress, model, film and television executive"
• "Lucille Ball was a gifted comedienne who... - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com) - "Lucille Ball was a gifted comedienne who brought laughter to millions the world over."
• Lucille Ball - Family, I Love Lucy & Quotes (biography.com) - "One of America's most beloved comedians"
• Celebrities Dressed Up as Lucille Ball: I Love Lucy Day [PHOTOS] (people.com) - "in honor of the legendary comedian"
• LUCILLE BALL, PIONEER OF TELEVISION COMEDY, DIES AT 77 - The Washington Post - "television's most enduring comedian"

Changedforbetter (talk) 13:57, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Immediately when I noticed, I reverted the change that you're talking about. Its removal did not even have a note and the information that was removed is confirmably accurate. Blurnk (talk) 19:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree the change in the lead was totally inappropriate based on the published literature. American Comedy Awards were officially renamed after Ball as the “Lucy” in 1989 after her death. She is the quintessential American comedian with a major comedy award named for her. Not to mention, Ball is widely recognized as the first important woman executive in the history of American television, so removing that was not ok. @FMSky There are three editors here who disagree with your changes to the lead. WP:CONSENSUS opinion is to keep the lead sentence with all three descriptions, actress, comedian, and television executive. Please do not revert this again. 4meter4 (talk) 02:39, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Update, I added a biographical reference that source that describes her as an "actress, comedian, producer, and studio executive." I therefore added producer as well to the lead sentence and added the book as a citation. That seemed entirely un-necessary since the WP:MOSLEAD requires we summarize the article, and a citation really shouldn't be necessary. See Damico, Amy M. (2022). "Chapter 4: Profiles; Section Lucille Ball (1911-1989)". Women in Media: A Reference Handbook. Bloomsbury Publishing. ISBN 9798216166740..4meter4 (talk) 03:18, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

As an aside, of course the term "comedian" is appropriate. "Comedienne" is an outdated term and one that I personally consider somewhat pejorative since it is "othering" the genders/sexes. After all, we don't have the terms "doctor" for men and "doctorette" for women or "lawyer" & lawyerette"...Etc. - Shearonink (talk) 21:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

@Shearonink I don't find it perjorative simply because comedian and comedienne are the masculine and feminine endings of those words in French which genders nouns as a matter of grammar. Those words come to us from the French language. English doesn't really use gender in nouns the way Romance languages do as a matter of grammar, so we tend to notice it more and read into it something that wasn't intended from the language that we borrowed it from. That said, comedian works just fine for me. On a side note, there are two very offensive old words "doctoress" and "lawyeress" which were in wide use for the rare women lawyers and doctors practicing in the English speaking world during the 19th century into the early 20th century. Those do come from the English language and are derogatory.4meter4 (talk) 21:35, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the term "comedienne" is outdated and should be avoided whenever possible. In the topic heading, I used the term just to provide context, as she was initially referred to as a "comedienne" in the lead at some point, and "comedienne" is most likely how the media, press, and public would have described her during the peak of her career. However, "comedian" is a more appropriate. Changedforbetter (talk) 12:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)