Mary Myers was one of the Engineering and technology good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Mary Myers was the first American woman to fly and pilot a dirigible balloon, which she did on Independence Day in 1880?
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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
The above DYK entry was removed from the main page as being incorrect. This was then discussed at WT:DYK. The article still states "Myers was the first female to fly a dirigible balloon,[27] which she did on 4 July 1880 at Little Falls, New York.[26][29]", but source 27 states (probably incorrectly) that she was the first American woman, not the first "female" overall; and the source only gives a year, not the date: it isn't certain that the flight meant is the 4th July flight or a later one. Removing this line altogether seems like the best course of action. Fram (talk) 15:21, 29 February 2016 (UTC)Reply
All right -- I enjoyed reading this article (what a cool person!), and I think it's close to meeting GA standards. I'm not seeing any copyvio issues (scanned it with Earwig's Copyvio tool and spot-checked some old articles via Newspapers.com). However, there are a few more tweaks and polishes needed for some of the text, formatting and sourcing. I've detailed my comments below, and after these items have been addressed I'll do another quick readthrough to see if there's anything else to tackle. Let me know if you have any questions. Alanna the Brave (talk) 00:00, 7 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
Myers' aliases should be simplified here. I think these three will do: Mary Myers, Mary Breed Hawley (maiden name), and Carlotta the Lady Aeronaut. No need to include every variation.
I think the "characteristics" (blonde hair) are unnecessary for this section and can be removed. Other sections already describe her character in a much more interesting way (through actions, anecdotes, etc).
No need for a "Main article: Carl Meyers" tag in this section -- Carl is already linked in the main text, and we don't want to suggest Mary Myers' life story is merely a fragment of Carl's story.
Done
The first paragraph here details the Myers' marriage and Carl's background. I would suggest moving it to the 'Early life' section (as personal background information), so that this 'Career' section can stay focused on Myers' professional activities.
Clarification needed: to what extent did Myers' "contribute" to Carl's inventions? This first sentence makes it sound like she was only ever an assistant, but later paragraphs suggest she created and patented some of her own inventions too.
Done
The details of these inventions are interesting, but I'm wondering: did they have any kind of broader impact on aeronautic equipment development? Did they work well? Did others actually purchase them?
Done
Clarification needed: how is a "5-foot-hoop" similar to "a lady's fan"? Finding this hard to picture.
Done
Too much repetition of comparing the hoop to a boat's rudder (2nd and 4th sentence in this last paragraph).
"first woman of the United States to fly and pilot her own aircraft": unless I'm misreading this claim, I suspect it isn't true. Madame Johnson [1] and Mrs. Jane Warren [2] are both reported as having piloted their own balloons in the U.S. before Mary Myers.
Done Provided links. The key words I believe are "her own aircraft" as something she constructed. The two you mention were in balloons built by others.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 09:32, 10 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
Hmm... I see where you're coming from. I'm not sure I'm convinced that these sources are saying she's the first American woman to CONSTRUCT and pilot her aircraft ("her own aircraft" feels too vague for that), but I could believe that they mean Myers OWNED and piloted her aircraft. That could believably put her ahead of Johnson and Warren. I'll let this stand. Alanna the Brave (talk) 18:03, 11 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
"highest number of one-woman piloted balloon trips ever done in the 19th century": intriguing claim, but I notice that there's only one source backing this up. Can you find the stats for her number of balloon trips, and do any other sources agree with this record?
Done
"more balloon flights than any man in America": also intriguing, but it looks like both sources are ultimately attributing the claim to Carl Myers in 1891. I'm not sure we can trust Carl's judgement alone -- are there any other sources for this?
Done
Your new source still attributes the claim to Carl. :-) However, I think we can make this claim work as long as the origin is made clear (I've edited the sentence accordingly). Alanna the Brave (talk) 18:03, 11 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
Did Myers retire from ALL business in 1891, or just from piloting balloons?
Done
The appearance of the Myers' daughter is rather sudden here. I think the fact that they had a child should have been mentioned earlier on (Early life?).
Most sources seem of good quality, but I'm not sure about D'Imperio, as iUniverse looks like a self publishing company.
Done
The "Scientific American" source is missing some bibliographic info: title of article/letter within Scientific American, letter author, vol #. Also: can you double-check that this citation is placed correctly within the "Balloon farm" section? The source seems to be discussing rain/atmospheric science, not balloon customers.
@Doug Coldwell: -- all right. You've addressed nearly everything I had on my list, and I've made some final edits to wrap it up: I expanded the lead; I replaced "Mary H. Myers" with "Mary Breed Hawley" in the lead (as per MOS:NEE, which recommends including the subject's original surname); I made a few more copy edits throughout the article for clarity; I shifted one business-related paragraph from "Early life" back into "Mid life and career"; and I added the clarification "According to Carl's calculations" to Myers' final record, as we still don't have any non-Carl sources. Otherwise, I'm now satisfied that this article meets GA criteria. Thanks for all the work! I know you were literally buried in GA nomination reviews this past week. Alanna the Brave (talk) 18:03, 11 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
@Alanna the Brave: Thanks for the final edits. They look good. Thanks for approving and promoting. Her husband Carl Edgar Myers was my first Good Article. I did that huge article back in 2016. Yes, you are right = I am working on several reviews now at the same time. I have done 20 so far this month and have a few others that I did all the issues and waiting for final review.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:32, 11 October 2020 (UTC)Reply
Copyright contributor investigation and Good article reassessment
Latest comment: 3 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion
In case anybody who can view the old page is curious about why I left things out:
Myers sailing to the ground on a broken piece of her balloon has not been discussed by modern sources at all. Even contemporaneous sources are mixed; I found multiples versions of the same story taking place in the US and Canada, some of which involved her heroically sacrificing herself to prevent a crowd crush, a few of which involved the balloon lifting some Native Americans/Canadians in a canoe? Anything concrete was sourced to her husband, a showman. It's dubious at best- without high-quality, modern sourcing, I left this particular story out.
Birth and death date- only source I can find is a magazine dated to 2017; I strongly suspect WP:CITOGENESIS. Maybe originally from original research? Given the inaccuracies of tombstones, however, especially ones that may or may not exist, I left the information as what could be verified.
First woman claims. Oooh, boy. For once, not entirely DC's fault. There's a lot of confusion in the sources, as is typical for biographies of 19th and 20th century female balloonists. (Lots of sensationalist reporting, very little modern analysis. It's sort of like if a 22nd century person was trying to write an article on a reality TV star, but only using scraps surviving tabloids that somebody scanned and put online). Extensively discussed at Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 121, but my own research places the first American woman to fly a balloon solo as Myers's friend, Nellie Thurston. (Which is currently hibernating atUser:GreenLipstickLesbian/Nellie Thurston until I figure out if she was adopted, who raised her, and who taught her to fly. Lots of competing theories exist, and the most plausible is the self-published source.)
Working --Doug Coldwell (talk)
Done