Talk:Muffin/Archive 1

Archive 1

Just edited out a gratuitous

[ RICH LOOKS LIKE A MUFFIN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.99.136.49 (talk) 02:01, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

== Just edited out a gratuitous Achewood reference. Yeah, yeah, funny ha ha, it's a great comic. I read it [[myself. But transposing Philippe's "Friday Facts" into an actual information source is lame. ==]]]
Strike-through text —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.11.27.107 (talk) 22:50, 14 December 2007 (UTC) Please, don't mix US units (cups) with metric ones (g) in the same recipe. Always use a consistent unit set. Bearing in mind that many of the readers here will be non-American, I suggest sticking to metric units as they are standard across the world. I'm not sure of the equivalences between cups of sugar or flour , so I'll leave that to someone with more expertise.

Done, but I wasn't sure how to express half a cup of chocolate chips in grams, so I made it millilitres instead. --Valmi ✒ 04:25, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Don't Move

I'll fix this article. Don't move it. Just move the recipe. --Mothperson 01:28, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Help

I mean, please move the recipe. I don't know what to do with it. --Mothperson 22:42, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

"Aar muffin"?

I just did a search on Google, and I didn't get any results explaining to me what an "aar muffin" is. Is this just some kind of typo? --Jitterro 03:25, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

'American muffin'

I'm not entirely sure that Britons refer to the subject of this article as 'American muffins'. No one I've ever met has (although admittedly conversations about muffins are relatively scarce). I would call the cake and the bread product 'muffins'. Which is meant is always clear from context. Perhaps in the US if you ask someone if they would like a muffin for breakfast they might not assume you mean the bread kind. I've certainly eaten doughnuts in America before that have claimed to be 'ideal for breakfasts'. mat_x 15:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)hobos

I am British and I have never said the words 'American' and 'Muffin' next to each other. 'American Muffin' is not a phrase anyone has ever said in the history of language so I don't know where this has come from. Muffins are much more popular than 'English Muffins' in the UK so if you ask for a muffin you will always get the cake kind (the one about which this article is written). I am editting the article to remove any such suggestion that these cakes are called 'American Muffins' in the UK. Abc30 22:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I would say that if you ask for a muffin when it is likely you are asking for an American-style muffin, that is what you will get. If you ask for a muffin in my house, at tea-time on a Sunday, you will likely get a breadier product. I have honestly eaten many more bready muffins than cakey muffins in my time. If it is not clear from context, I have often heard, and used, 'American-style muffin' or 'American muffin', as opposed to 'bready muffin'. So you are wrong. Skittle 11:05, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I have never, ever, ever, come across this 'English Muffin' anywhere besides America. I am british. --82.4.89.161 (talk) 15:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

I've made a change to the "English Muffin" section. Tell me what you think. --82.4.89.161 (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

The term 'english muffin' is occasionally used in Australia too when we need to distinguish between the two types (never 'American Muffin' AFAIK). --Irrevenant [ talk ] 01:03, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

In Australia it's a generational thing. I use "American muffin" because I have been eating muffins since I was a child, and the US cake version didn't even exist then. A lot of young people in Australia who don't know any better i.e. know the world only through US television/movies, call the US cake muffin a muffin and the bread version an "English muffin". I've heard the term "muffin cake" used to differentiate the US version from the original. Frankly, the term "English muffin" is bizarre. Muffins have existed since the 10th century. Somebody in the US decides sometime in the 1970s that from now on a boring cupcake will be called a "muffin" - and suddenly the original is re-named "English muffin"? How insular and self-obsessed does one have to be to do that?123.2.160.108 (talk) 01:54, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

The claim that "muffins" have existed since the 10th century is false. Although the object the word refers to may have been around since then, the earliest use of "muffin" is in Glossary of Yorkshire words from Thoresby's Letter to Ray April 27, 1703 (Ray's Collection of words, E.D.S. 1874). Furthermore, the earliest recorded use of muffin in the American sense is in Georgia scenes (Longstreet, Augustus B., 1848). 128.2.153.22 (talk) 17:42, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

You seem to have confused the "current term" with the "thing itself". This article is primarily about the thing itself, not the names used to describe it. (This is a map-territory fallacy.)

It sounds like we need to update the information about the first written use of the term, however. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:49, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

It's really a regional thing, not a generational one. See "Rice Muffins" and "Indian Muffins" on page 309 of this cookbook from 1839. The term muffin clearly was used for non-yeast "American muffins" well before even the oldest living Australian was born. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:05, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Enlish Muffin is an American term. The article should make that clear - the default name is Muffin - only in America are they called English muffins to distinguish them from the American cakes. Since it is the Americans who are out on a limb, should we not be encouraging the use of the name American muffin outside the USA?JohnC (talk) 08:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that Canadians call them English muffins also. Weetoddid (talk) 09:39, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Australians also use the term "English muffin", e.g., Top Top brand.

Importantly, JohnC's initial premise is actually wrong. While plain "muffin" is sometimes used, the term "English muffin" is used in the UK. For example, there are UK bakeries using the term: e.g., Livwell's English muffins and Hambleton bakery's English muffins. The term is also used by the UK government's Food Standards Agency, e.g., on this page about breakfast. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:06, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Muffin size

Somebody should probably change this sentence: Today it is not unusual to find a muffin along the lines of "coconut-almond-cherry-chocolate" the size of a small baby's head. I find it kind of strange to be comparing a food item to a baby's head. Redtitan 06:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it should stay. Can you not picture the plump, round thing that a baby's head is and its similarity - in size at least - to a muffin? --82.4.89.161 (talk) 15:41, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Is a cupcake a muffin?

NO! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.187.85.186 (talk) 14:55, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Clearly these little cakes are delicious, but do they have enough in common with the muffin to be considered one? If this arguement can be made, then could one state that a cake is also a loaf of bread? A serious debate has been raised on this topic and I was hoping to get a third party evaluation. Any scientific proof that would help my case would be appreciated! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marvel comic (talk • contribs) 23:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

You are unlikely to find "scientific proof" for what is, after all, a matter of language usage and not science. To answer your question directly: I know that bakers and TV personality Alton Brown distinguish between muffins and cupcakes on the basis of how the batter is prepared. (Brown goes so far as to identify a distinct "muffin method" in his baking how-to book I'm Just Here for More Food.) There is some controversy over whether the use of paper pan-liners is acceptable for muffins; Brown says not, but most commercial bakeries use them.

Clarify tag

Article needs clarification and probably section restructuring - at the moment the article mixes up English muffins and US muffins in a confusing way and has a rambling prose style Bwithh ^{Join Up! See the World!} 22:03, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Restructured

In response to Bwithh's comment about the article needing restructuring I've grouped the different types of muffins together under one heading. I felt that there wasn't enough information in each of them to be seperate titles. Free Thinker 17:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Cadburys

The article states that Cadburys is an American company, it's British!!! 131.227.231.73 00:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

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Reference to popular culture

Let us make a list of references to muffins in popular culture 1. Casino - Robert de Niro: each muffin has to have the same amount of blueberries 2. “Who throws cupcakes? …honestly!” - young Dr Evil, Austin Powers movie character 3. your turn Shepherdx (talk) 15:30, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

These are what I think are called "cup cakes" in British English.

I'm not much of a cook, but that's what I think the things in the photos are normally called in England. Of course with all the American brands being imported into the UK, things are being sold in supermarkets as and becoming known in their American usage. And Scottish people probably have different names for them also, which might I imagine be more similar to American-English usage. 80.2.202.130 21:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

The things that you apparently call cup cakes are also called cup cakes in American English; I call them fairy cakes and have never met an English person who calls them cup cakes. American-style muffins are slightly different, having a slightly different composition. All of this can be found in the article, or could be last time I looked :) Skittle 15:27, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I would tend never to call them fairy-cakes, but instead use cup-cakes (I'm from Kent, FWIW), although I do assume both are the same. These muffins tend to be much larger than what I would call cup-cakes, though. I agree with you on the subject of calling these things American-style Muffins, although I'm sad to say that just calling them "muffins" is becoming more prevalent. You just have to tell from context now. I would seriously argue for renaming this page, though. I think it's bad that 'Muffins' comes straight here and not to the disambiguation page. --Neil (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 11:05, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

See, to me, a fairy cake and a muffin are totally different. Muffins are bigger and puffed up at the top, and fairy cakes have little "wings" on the top, made out of a piece of the cake cut out of the top, cut in half, inverted and jammed back into the top in a pool of buttercream. Like this, y'see. But that's just me. TheRotArm (talk) 21:13, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

In Australia, cupcakes are experiencing a surge in popularity, even being used for some of the trendiest and most expensive wedding cakes. But they're significantly different to what we call muffins, which tend to be larger, and are of a particular consistency and without icing. Muffins are sold in bread shops and bakeries, alongside danish pastry and the like; Cupcakes are sold in cake shops.

And of course, we also have English muffins, sold under various names, mainly in supermarkets and grocers. Andrewa (talk) 16:08, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Must we make a reference to Whole Foods?

At the Paper Muffin cups section it clearly states "Organic variations of the muffin cup are sold at Whole Foods." Must we make reference to Whole Foods? I'm sur somewhere out there they sell organic muffin cups in a store other than Whole Foods, right?

English muffins removal

There is already an article on English muffins. As English muffins are not a subset of the muffin, they should not be included in "Types of muffin" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.38.23 (talk) 20:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was No move. Duja► 07:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

---

I would like to suggest moving this page to Muffin (American) because I think this is unfairly U.S.-centric; people in Britain usually use the term 'muffin' whether they are talking about American-style or English muffins, and the context makes it clear which one they are talking about (85 times out of 88 in the British National Corpus - see below), without the use of any clarifying adjective such as in the terms 'English muffin' or 'American-style' muffin. Unless of course the context for some reason is not clear, in which case they will use these longer terms. Other people have already written this. But if 'English' muffins are part of the cuisine and therefore the culture of Britain, and people in Britain usually refer to them as just 'muffins', and 'American-style' muffins are part of American culture, and people in America refer to them as just muffins, then why should Wikipedia give precedence to 'American-style' muffins by putting this article under the title 'muffin', and not the 'English' variety?

I think there should be an article under the title 'muffin' which is about both kinds of muffins, and the article should be moved to 'Muffin (American)', in the same way that 'football' is about all kinds of football and not just American Football, Soccer etc. I think this case is similar enough to be used as a precedent. Perhaps we could vote on it?

88 occurrences of 'muffin(s)' in the British National Corpus (~111 million words)
source British National Corpus (sketchengine.co.uk)

36 occurrences of adjective/noun + muffin(s)
CQL query: [tag="N.+|AJ0"] "muffins?"

• chocolate muffins 2
• banana muffins 2
• yodelling muffin 1
• wholemeal muffins 1
• vanilla muffins 1
• toasted muffins 1
• spice muffins 1
• scones muffins 1
• prize muffin 1
• player Muffin 1
• party-coloured muffins 1
• low-flying muffins 1
• love muffins 1
• hot muffins 1
• home-made muffins 1
• god Muffin 1
• dog Muffin 1
• different muffins 1
• chair Muffin 1
• buttered muffins 1
• breakfast muffin 1
• blueberry muffin 1
• blue-iced muffin 1
• Sunday muffin 1
• Mule Muffin 1
• Muesli muffins 1
• London Muffin 1
• Hot Muffin 1
• English muffins 1
• English Muffins 1
• Christmas muffins 1
• Blueberry muffins 1
• Bhangra Muffin 1
• American-style muffins 1

source: British National Corpus (sketchengine.co.uk)
(You need to create a free account)
User:Ca woodcock 22:53, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Our way of dealing with Anglo-American differences is simple: leave them alone. In this case, there is an obvious way to disambiguate between the English and American senses: discuss the English sense under English muffin. I further suspect that the British corpus has been contaminated with American usage; certainly blueberry muffins are an every-day American food. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I assumes that by leave them alone you mean we mustn't make a big deal out of it. Well I agree, but this is the title of the page, not just a matter of the spelling of one word. Anyway, one of the ways we deal with it is by considering any strong national ties to a topic: An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation uses the appropriate variety of English for that nation. But in Britain we call muffins muffins, not English muffins. User:Ca woodcock 11:01, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

No, I mean don't move them once established. This can be overturned for a really good reason, as the linked guideline says; but there isn't one here. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 01:28, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Although crude and not entirely accurate, the Google test says American muffins are more common than English muffins, even if it's solely by force of population (ie, the US has more people than the UK). See [1] (which excludes the term "English muffin", as well as non-food uses of the word muffin), "english muffin" "food", and "english muffin". They result in 2.2 million, 320000, and 557000 hits, respectively. This suggests that the word "muffin" is more commonly used to refer to American muffins. A good compromise for this page, though, would be to talk about muffins in general (and the confusion around the word) with sections for both American and English muffins. Then allow English muffin to remain separate. "Muffin (American)" is just really awkward-sounding. Axem Titanium 22:35, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Page protection

This page seems to attract a lot of vandalism, most of it by anons... should it be semi-protected, perhaps? I can argue it both ways... they'll probably just go elsewhere, and at least here we have a few people watching and ready to revert. Andrewa (talk) 12:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Reverted

I reverted these edits because they seem to make little sense. For example, cup-shaped bread is inaccurate; Muffins are not bread. The two redlinks seemed both better as redlinks; One had been eliminated, the other piped to an article on a similar but significantly different topic.

But it's the change in description that mainly bothered me. The intro needs a rewrite, but its main problem is that it's not very good English. The discarded content was both informative and accurate; The replacement was neither. Andrewa (talk) 16:38, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Um, technically, muffins are breads; they're just typically quick breads instead of yeast-based breads. How would you classify a muffin? As a cake? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:38, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Defnition of a stupid person

a muffin is a dliciousful fooshnit that has turned into a Silver —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.206.206 (talk) 23:56, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

People muffin?

I'm pretty sure that that this is not real, but I want to have permission to blank the whole thing.--Sunsetsunrise (talk) 01:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree, this doesn't seem to belong here at all, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.195.125.4 (talk) 02:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Date "Muffin" Makes it into English

The date the word "Muffin" first appears in written English is incorrect--even according to the citation on the page. The correct date is not the 11th century, but 1703 (see the OED). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.231.32.128 (talk) 17:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. Better late than never :P Fvasconcellos (t·c) 20:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Please Make Correction

Under the "English Muffin" Section this article mentions Fannie Farmer and refers to her as "a young adolescent girl". Fannie Farmer was neither young or adolescent when she wrote her well known cookbook. Her name should reference her wiki entry and the inappropriate age-related reference should be removed. I'd change it but the page is "protected".

Y Done. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 20:48, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

usage of "muffin"

I disagree with a comment in the opening paragraph.

"A muffin can also mean a different baked good, the smaller, disk-shaped English muffin, although this usage is uncommon outside Britain."

I feel that Britain should be changed to Commonwealth (or another wider ranging term) as this usage is in fact common throughout the whole commonwealth, which constitutes almost a quarter of the world's population. Due to the 'global village' in which we all now live, it is context that makes the intention of meaning clear (as is expressed in the next sentence in the article).

As this article is protected could someone please make this small change.

regards, purns

Thanks for the note. I've made the change that you requested. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:39, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I strongly disagree, in New Zealand, Australia and Canada, we call the subject of the article Muffin (English), English Muffins, and the Muffins of this article simply Muffins, strictly; English muffins would never be simply referred to as just a muffin. English muffins while available aren't terribly common, while the muffins of this article are extremely endemic, you can buy muffins from cafes, bakeries, supermarkets, coffee places etc, and a lot of people make their own at home as well. So I don't agree with the editor above, re the commonwealth, it seems to be only the UK that refers to English muffins as muffins (though I don't know about the Scots, Irish and Welsh), and also question whether this should be referred to as specifically an 'American name', since as noted in the article the name is used internationally whether alongside the English muffin or not. It's not like they're called anything else either, no one calls them American muffins afiacs in the same way English muffins are specified. Also the list of Commonweath countries is very long and diverse, 94% live in Asia and Africa for example, so muffins of either sort probably aren't that widespread let alone an English language name for them.Number36 (talk) 22:48, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Defining a muffin

About these recent changes:

• Sweet directly contradicts the last sentence in the lead, "Savory varieties, such as cornbread muffins, also exist.". Either savory (that is, non-sweet) muffins exist, in which case we dump the word sweet from the definition of muffin, or they don't, and we invent some other article for cornbread muffins.
• Quick bread: Muffins are not all quick breads. English muffins, in particular, are yeast breads. Again, either we evict one kind of muffins from the article, or we change the definition to include them. Furthermore, if your knowledge of quick breads is greater than the unsourced Wikipedia article on the subject, then there are four kinds of bread (yeast, stirred ["quick"], creamed ["cake"], and shortened ["biscuit" or "pie crust"]), and American muffins are made with both the stirred and creamed methods, making the category include both "quick breads" and "cakes".
• Invariably baked in muffin tins: No, they aren't. Muffins can be made in disposable foil muffin cups or heavyweight (or double-layered lightweight) paper cups on a plain baking sheet. They can be baked in pottery cups (and were, for centuries, before anyone made muffin tins). Stiff doughs can even be baked in muffin rings.

The recent change re-introduced errors into this article. I'm happy to discuss ways of presenting information, but we must not have obvious falsities in the lead. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:18, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

history of muffins

Can someone please elucidate us on the history and origins of this food. -tx Sblument (talk) 03:43, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Toast

Given that there's already an article on English muffins this might not be appropriate, but maybe we should describe (American) muffins as often cake-like, and English muffins as often toast-like? It seems only fair to make the comparison for both.

It is very odd reading muffin as being a kind of bread, when an English muffin is much more bread-like than the American counterpart. -Legaia (talk) 13:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I know that it's a little odd, especially if you think of "bread" as meaning something like "baguettes", but layer cake is a kind of bread, too. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:08, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Martha's muffins

Martha White's blueberry muffins are the bomb. Buy them at Publix or Kroger's —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.125.111.203 (talk) 00:51, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

English muffin, eaten cold?

In England, at least, I have never seen a cold muffin offered or eaten. A bit like eating an untoasted crumpet, it's just not pleasant - is the rest of the world different, or should this line be removed? GyroMagician (talk) 08:32, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

No, nor have I. And I can't see anyone enjoying cold English Muffins.--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 16:51, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Agree. But this article is about the cupcake like thingy. Maybe these comments belong at talk:English muffin? Andrewa (talk) 18:59, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Um, apart from this section. Maybe the whole section should be replaced by a link to English Muffin, or the two pages should be merged? GyroMagician (talk) 16:15, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Ask any Englishman/Brit what they think a Muffin is…

And they will mostly all say “Those cakes which have choc-chips and blueberries in them!”. --Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 16:53, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Umm, ask any Englishman if he'd like a muffin for breakfast and he'll expect a savoury bready thing. Very good with eggs and bacon. GyroMagician (talk) 17:10, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

نريد ترجمة للعربيه لو سمحتم

نريد ترجمة للعربية لو سمحتم —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.248.245.192 (talk) 04:08, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Google translate renders the heading above from Arabic to English as We want a translation of the Arab World if I may want a translation of the Arab World if I may. Andrewa (talk) 19:49, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure that the Arabic Wikipedia would be delighted to have someone translate this page -- or any page -- into Arabic. It can then be linked here using an Help:Interlanguage links. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:22, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I think that's probably what the request is, but it's a bit hard to tell from the machine translation. Arabic being an official UN language, Google supports it. But it doesn't render the idiomatic courtesies terribly well, obviously. Andrewa (talk) 01:52, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

History

The claim that English muffins predate American muffins has been fact-tagged. They certainly predate the founding of the United States of America's current federal government, but whether the "American" muffin might have existed outside of America before that time, is more than I know. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:42, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 90.219.146.181, 15 April 2010

{{editsemiprotected}}

Chip Muffin

Northern slang for chips on a breaded muffin, barm 90.219.146.181 (talk) 15:29, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Thanks. After finding a reference please make another edit request. Chevymontecarlo. 17:09, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

History section -- OR?

A couple grafs in the History section read very much like original research. 18.26.0.5 (talk) 21:23, 17 September 2010 (UTC)