Talk:Northern line extension to Battersea
Northern line extension to Battersea has been listed as one of the Engineering and technology good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: March 2, 2023. (Reviewed version). |
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A fact from Northern line extension to Battersea appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 2 October 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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"Recently Approved"
editReally? Seeing as there's no TWA order, and Wandsworth Council couldn't possibly approve the station in Nine Elms as it's in Lambeth, not Wandsworth, I don't think this is accurate. Marklesparkle (talk) 10:01, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- I've removed the "(recently approved)" text as it was misleading. Specifically it is the redevelopment of the power station site that has been approved, and this approval is based on (or contingent on, I'm not clear which) the funding for the construction of the Northern Line extension. Thryduulf (talk) 13:04, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- This station is mentioned on the page of the US Embassy which intends to move out of Grosvenor Square. Reading that they have three storeys underground there, one would assume that they'd want that at the new site, too. Their underground activities and a new tube line smell like a good fit to me. But this is on only a hunch. The complicated process that a new US embassy has to go through explains delays there and if that's indeed linked, explains the delay with the tube. Maybe another link is missing in the chain of information. 121.209.56.38 (talk) 06:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Location of station on Battersea Power Station site
editDoes anybody know where on the Battersea Power Station site the proposed station will be built? Presumably as close to Battersea Park Road as possible? It would seem to make sense to me to site it almost on top of the Battersea Dogs Home - presumably as far west as possible? But this would make too much sense. And this is just a guess - no doubt it could easily be sited in a stupid location. Thanks in advance to anybody who knows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.37.206 (talk) 15:41, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
Zone 1 Zone 2 question for the two new stations
editNote to the Northern line extension public inquiry Proposed fare zone structure 12 December 2013: www.persona.uk.com/nle/D-Proofs/TFL87.PDF
Explaining the benefit of making Kennington a Zone 1/2 station.
However, on the tfl website, it still says the two new stations will be in Zone 2.
Jsmallwo (talk) 11:30, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
- I would be grateful if somebody who has the requisite subscription could verify this edit. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:03, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
- According to this 6 June 2014 Metro newspaper article, both stations are going to be Zone 1 stations - but that assumes the reporter knows what she is talking about: http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/06/nine-elms-regeneration-is-changing-this-london-riverside-district-for-the-better-4752149/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.149.183 (talk) 23:08, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
Kennington Zone 1/2 question
editI assume Kennington will become a Zone 1/2 boundary station if nine elms will be a zone1? I can't find a reference to this anywhere though.
(...and perhaps someone clever can do a new map putting nine elms in zone1.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jsmallwo (talk • contribs) 18:05, 18 November 2014
Some clues here. So actually maybe Battersea itself will also be Zone 1? http://questions.london.gov.uk/QuestionSearch/searchclient/questions/question_277016 http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.be/2014_07_01_diamondgeezer_archive.html Jsmallwo (talk) 21:24, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Proposed number of trains per hour?
editHave they said how many trains per hour they plan to run on this spur? Thanks in advance to anybody who knows.88.105.99.71 (talk) 13:10, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
- @88.105.99.71: it should be the same as on the Charing Cross branch, so roughly 24tph in the peaks, 18tph offpeak. -mattbuck (Talk) 13:12, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Ref problem
editJust wondering if its only me but I get a 404 when I click on the tunnelling completed link to Evening Standard? - 1.02 editor (talk) 14:26, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
- Works for me, are you clicking on the link directly or copying and pasting? Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 09:46, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
- Clicking the link directly. -1.02 editor (talk) 10:13, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Opening
editGiven that the line appears to have been in the final stages of testing and the intended opening is more than a year away, can it be assumed that the opening is likely to be on track (assuming the lockdown is eased in the next few months)? Jackiespeel (talk) 14:57, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
- Given the current Covid-19 crisis, who knows what will happen. Let's wait and see for some official news when it eventually comes out.Turini2 (talk) 20:42, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
- The latest update [1] was shortly before the shutdown. One can deduce some of the factors (how essential the extension is considered to be, how much can be done during the lockdown, and what has to be done during 'open seasons' - which may be of varying lengths).
- Just in case the WP-transport group were more up to date. Jackiespeel (talk) 11:52, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
- Given the current Covid-19 crisis, who knows what will happen. Let's wait and see for some official news when it eventually comes out.Turini2 (talk) 20:42, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a source for speculation. Unless there is a reliable source with citations that can suggest otherwise, the opening date on the page should remain as is. Sidesix (talk) 12:57, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
- Possibly 'still on schedule despite the Covid-19 crisis' would have sufficed - or, now, 'there were no delays in opening the extension despite the Covid-19 crisis' (given that elections, Olympics and other events were so delayed). Jackiespeel (talk) 09:58, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
Clapham Junction extension map
editUser:Bazza 7 and I have removed a map (link here) that seems to suggest that the extension will continue to Clapham Junction. It does not, as is clear throughout the article. A future extension to Clapham Junction is not currently proposed by TfL or other local bodies. Any suggestion that an extension will be built (such as any theoretical extension of any other Tube line in future) is WP:CRYSTAL. We don't know what will happen in future. Further issues with the map include incorrect line colours (white) and the old label for the now Battersea Power Station station. The RDT map shows the route of the line (and the "reserved course" of a theoretical extension) much better. Do others have thoughts? Turini2 (talk) 20:54, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
- The inclusion of Clapham Junction is a major fault as this seems to have been abandoned for the present. Not showing the full name for Battersea is a minor fault and I see nothing wrong with showing the extension in a different colour to indicate that it is not part of the old line. My reason for reverting was that the map does show how the new stations fit into the network, whereas the other map is so confusing that it is useless to readers and should be deleted. How about using the map below, which does at least remove the main fault? Dudley Miles (talk) 08:17, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Dudley Miles: I deleted the "Northern line extension to Battersea" map when it was recaptioned "This is what the tube map will look like", which is WP:CRYSTAL. The map showing the extension terminating at Clapham Junction is also WP:CRYSTAL, so it should not be used. Your proposed map has several issues: it suggests the line terminates at a station called Battersea, which is wrong (it's Battersea Power Station); the white section should be labelled "extension" or redrawn using the conventional dashed line (as at [2], which would suffice as a WP:RS); the pale blue background (presumably a fare zone indication) is unexplained and should be removed; and the river need labelling. If those issues are remedied, and the map captioned correctly in the article (something like "Northern line extension to Battersea"), then I'm good with it. Alternatively, use Template:Maplink or similar to show a geographically accurate map of the extension. (I'm not very familiar with that, but could be persuaded to be if nobody else wanted to play.) Bazza (talk) 08:53, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
- The line in white can be fixed by adding a caption "extension shown in white". The other issues are minor and very few people will notice them. The bottom line is that readers should have a map showing the new line and the one currently in the article is confusing and unhelpful. Of course if you are happy to do a better map that would be very helpful. Dudley Miles (talk) 09:07, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
- I'm happy for this to be re-added - if possible the issues mentioned should be fixed, but I don't think the map should be removed because of them! Bellowhead678 (talk) 14:58, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
- Currently there is no map showing the new line clearly, so I suggest replacing the current confusing map with the one above, pending replacement by a better map. Bazza 7 are you happy with this? Dudley Miles (talk) 16:45, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Dudley Miles: Yes, I'm fine with that one; the versions with the CJ map ([3]) and non-CJ map with a crystal ball caption ([4] are the ones which are misleading. Bazza (talk) 08:59, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
- Currently there is no map showing the new line clearly, so I suggest replacing the current confusing map with the one above, pending replacement by a better map. Bazza 7 are you happy with this? Dudley Miles (talk) 16:45, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
- I'm happy for this to be re-added - if possible the issues mentioned should be fixed, but I don't think the map should be removed because of them! Bellowhead678 (talk) 14:58, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
- The line in white can be fixed by adding a caption "extension shown in white". The other issues are minor and very few people will notice them. The bottom line is that readers should have a map showing the new line and the one currently in the article is confusing and unhelpful. Of course if you are happy to do a better map that would be very helpful. Dudley Miles (talk) 09:07, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Dudley Miles: I deleted the "Northern line extension to Battersea" map when it was recaptioned "This is what the tube map will look like", which is WP:CRYSTAL. The map showing the extension terminating at Clapham Junction is also WP:CRYSTAL, so it should not be used. Your proposed map has several issues: it suggests the line terminates at a station called Battersea, which is wrong (it's Battersea Power Station); the white section should be labelled "extension" or redrawn using the conventional dashed line (as at [2], which would suffice as a WP:RS); the pale blue background (presumably a fare zone indication) is unexplained and should be removed; and the river need labelling. If those issues are remedied, and the map captioned correctly in the article (something like "Northern line extension to Battersea"), then I'm good with it. Alternatively, use Template:Maplink or similar to show a geographically accurate map of the extension. (I'm not very familiar with that, but could be persuaded to be if nobody else wanted to play.) Bazza (talk) 08:53, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Work to do before opening
editI suspect this article will be very popular in the next little while in the run up to the opening date on the 20th September. Do we want to have a go at rewriting and reworking this article to have more details? Similar to Bakerloo line extension for example? Who, when and why was the extension proposed, some history on the Battersea Power Station redevelopment, consultation history (why doesn't it go to X, what other places were considered?), construction history, architecture design & artworks, planned opening, service levels, cost of extension etc etc. Turini2 (talk) 11:20, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
- That is a great idea if you are willing to undertake it. I would keep down the length of 'consultation history (why doesn't it go to X, what other places were considered?)', which will only be of specialist interest and just give a brief summary on Battersea Power Station as it has its own article. Dudley Miles (talk) 11:51, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
- Okay, I had a good first go at this - I'll be back, but feel free to edit further :) Turini2 (talk) 14:33, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
Background into Power Station and northern line extensions (lack of them!)- Development of scheme in 2000s - confirm that it was idea of private developer
- History 2010s - initial consultation and further consultations
- History public inquiry
- History Construction of extension
- Route, stations
- Architecture and art
- Accessibility
- Cost of extension and who's paying
- Supporters/detractors
- Zones of station
- Service levels
- Benefits of extension (journey time etc)
- Extension to Clapham Junction - actual references for it
Better pictures and diagramsWell, I had a good search of Flickr and geograph, and there's now a diagram. I guess we need to wait until the extension is opened for shots of station/surroundings etc.Turini2 (talk) 12:45, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
- Okay, I think I'm mostly finished with my edits and improvements to this article - any thoughts? Suggestions? Turini2 (talk) 18:20, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
Did you know nomination
edit- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 02:13, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
- ... that the tunnel boring machines that dug the London's new Northern line extension were named after the first British astronaut Helen Sharman, and British aviation pioneer Amy Johnson? [1]
- Comment: The extension of the Northern line opens on September 20th, so that would be a good day for this one!
- QPQ: Template:Did you know nominations/The Epic Split
5x expanded by Turini2 (talk). Self-nominated at 21:39, 11 September 2021 (UTC).
General eligibility:
- New enough:
- Long enough: -
This article is not long enough unfortunately. The article did begin expansion on September 9 with 5,537 prose characters and now has 19,880 prose characters. To expand it fivefold, you will have to expand it to approximately 25,500 prose characters. You can use DYKcheck to determine the prose size of an article. For purposes of calculation, bulleted lists cannot be considered as prose.
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting: - The hook should specify "London's Northern line extension".
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: @Turini2: I have to preface this by saying great work on the article - for some reason I had this page in my watchlist, and I've noticed this article expand drastically. Sadly, as of right now, the article isn't long enough to have been expanded fivefold. But if you are able to add around 5,500 additional prose characters within the next couple of days, then this would be eligible. Bulleted lists don't count toward prose expansions, so you would have to add some more info that isn't a list. If you cannot expand the page anymore, then another option is to nominate this as a good article and resubmit the page for DYK once the good article nomination is passed. Epicgenius (talk) 14:53, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks Epicgenius for your kind words, it's appreciated! Argh, I knew I'd expanded the article a lot, but didn't realise how far I was off the 5x! I'll see what I can do today - given that I'm unlikely to get a GA before the 20th September. I wonder if turning bulletpoints into prose will help... Can I ping you when I'm done? With regard to editing the hook following your feedback, do I edit this above, or somewhere else? Turini2 (talk) 12:37, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
- Turini2, you can definitely ping me when you are finished with your expansion. It is fine with me if you edit the hook.
- Sorry, I should clarify about the good article nomination - you do not have to improve it to good-article status within 7 days of the good article nomination. The 7-day limit only applies to the DYK process after the GAN is passed. You can nominate this for GA anytime you want and, once the GA is passed, you have 7 days to nominate the article for DYK. Epicgenius (talk) 12:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for this Epicgenius - I've made edits, I think it's over the 25k mark but take a look. It might need a little more. I can flesh out a few sections if required I think. Do let me know. Turini2 (talk) 21:59, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the heads-up. I'll look at this in detail tomorrow morning. Epicgenius (talk) 00:42, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
- Looks good to go for me. It has been expanded from about 5.6k prose characters to about 28k prose characters within the relevant time period. Due to rounding these aren't precise, but this is still a very good expansion nevertheless. Epicgenius (talk) 13:10, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks Epicgenius, much appreciated :D Turini2 (talk) 14:07, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
- Promoter's comment: Damn, Turini, nice job! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 02:13, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks Epicgenius, much appreciated :D Turini2 (talk) 14:07, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
- Looks good to go for me. It has been expanded from about 5.6k prose characters to about 28k prose characters within the relevant time period. Due to rounding these aren't precise, but this is still a very good expansion nevertheless. Epicgenius (talk) 13:10, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the heads-up. I'll look at this in detail tomorrow morning. Epicgenius (talk) 00:42, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for this Epicgenius - I've made edits, I think it's over the 25k mark but take a look. It might need a little more. I can flesh out a few sections if required I think. Do let me know. Turini2 (talk) 21:59, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
To T:DYK/P6
References
- ^ Murray, Dick (2017-02-16). "Machines brought in to begin work on £1.2bn Northern line extension". Evening Standard. Retrieved 2021-09-11.
They were named, thanks to a vote by local schoolchildren, in honour of astronaut Helen Sharman and aviation pioneer Amy Johnson
Categories
editNow that the extension is operational, should it be removed from Category:Proposed extensions to the London Underground? It is not now a proposed extension as it has been built, but I suppose an argument could be made that as the page mentions the mooted future extension to Clapham Junction that part of it still covers a proposed extension. Dunarc (talk) 20:04, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
- Agreed - made changes to the categories Turini2 (talk) 07:52, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks - I think it works better. Dunarc (talk) 20:39, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
Good article
editWhat do people think about nominating this as a good article? Any thoughts? Turini2 (talk) 10:09, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
- My only thought is that the lead doesn't adequately summarises the article, in terms of its length (too short for the length of the article); other than that, I think pretty much everything is sourced and so on. (I think, with the lead, MOS:CITELEAD (that the lead should or shouldn't contain citations) is up for discussion). Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 08:13, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
GA Review
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Northern line extension to Battersea/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Ganesha811 (talk · contribs) 14:00, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Hello! I'm happy to review this article. I'll be using the template below. If you have any questions as we go, you can just ask here or on my talk page, either's fine! —Ganesha811 (talk) 14:00, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
- Turini2, feel free to address the issues described below while I dive into prose and comprehensiveness. We should be able to get this to GA together! :) —Ganesha811 (talk) 19:48, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Ganesha811 Will do, thanks! Turini2 (talk) 20:05, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Turini2, do you still have time available to respond to comments/suggestions right now? Noticed you haven't made any changes since the 23rd. If you are busy IRL or otherwise, just let me know and I can put the review on hold for a couple of weeks to allow time for changes to be made. —Ganesha811 (talk) 14:01, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry - I need a few dedicated hours to plough though this, and I was busy last weekend. Shall I ping you around the 13th February? Thanks again for your help in this. Turini2 (talk) 14:44, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- I'll put it on hold for a week and check back in after that! No rush. Ping me when you're done with these suggestions or if you have any questions. —Ganesha811 (talk) 14:59, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Turini2! I see 10mmsocket has made some improvements in the prior week, but almost all of the comments below are still unaddressed. Will you have time in the near future to work on this article again? —Ganesha811 (talk) 03:21, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- I have time this evening, so I'll get started! Turini2 (talk) 16:48, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- Will come back to this tomorrow - have started with a load of references Turini2 (talk) 22:16, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- Turini2, thanks for the reference work. A lot of issues are still unaddressed. Would another week on hold to allow you time to make changes be helpful? —Ganesha811 (talk) 11:33, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- I think so, yes! Turini2 (talk) 13:13, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- Alright, let's give it a week and reassess after the 25th. I'd like to wrap the review up shortly after that if possible. When these comments are addressed the only thing left will be prose, which I generally handle directly to save us both time. —Ganesha811 (talk) 13:36, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- I think so, yes! Turini2 (talk) 13:13, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- Turini2, thanks for the reference work. A lot of issues are still unaddressed. Would another week on hold to allow you time to make changes be helpful? —Ganesha811 (talk) 11:33, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- Will come back to this tomorrow - have started with a load of references Turini2 (talk) 22:16, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- I have time this evening, so I'll get started! Turini2 (talk) 16:48, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Turini2! I see 10mmsocket has made some improvements in the prior week, but almost all of the comments below are still unaddressed. Will you have time in the near future to work on this article again? —Ganesha811 (talk) 03:21, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
- I'll put it on hold for a week and check back in after that! No rush. Ping me when you're done with these suggestions or if you have any questions. —Ganesha811 (talk) 14:59, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry - I need a few dedicated hours to plough though this, and I was busy last weekend. Shall I ping you around the 13th February? Thanks again for your help in this. Turini2 (talk) 14:44, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Turini2, do you still have time available to respond to comments/suggestions right now? Noticed you haven't made any changes since the 23rd. If you are busy IRL or otherwise, just let me know and I can put the review on hold for a couple of weeks to allow time for changes to be made. —Ganesha811 (talk) 14:01, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
- @Ganesha811 Will do, thanks! Turini2 (talk) 20:05, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
Reopening review - some improvements have been made, but after another week on hold the issues below have not yet been fully addressed. The article was last edited on the 16th. Turini2, please see if you can get to them in the next few days (before the 28th) or I'll have to close out this review. Thanks. —Ganesha811 (talk) 00:57, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, have made some edits tonight - I'm free tomorrow, so should have time to finish these bits then. On the homestretch! Turini2 (talk) 22:11, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
- Great, I'll take a look at it tomorrow night. Thanks! —Ganesha811 (talk) 22:29, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
- Turini2, your last edit summary indicated you planned to continue working on the lead/elsewhere. Are you continuing to make changes or should I take another look now? It'd be great to wrap up this review expeditiously. —Ganesha811 (talk) 06:08, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- Have made the final few changes I think - cutting out a little excess detail here and there. Not sure about the use of bullets in the Initial route consultation (2010) section - but it's clearer to read, regarding the various options. Let me know your thoughts. Turini2 (talk) 23:13, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- Turini2, your last edit summary indicated you planned to continue working on the lead/elsewhere. Are you continuing to make changes or should I take another look now? It'd be great to wrap up this review expeditiously. —Ganesha811 (talk) 06:08, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- Great, I'll take a look at it tomorrow night. Thanks! —Ganesha811 (talk) 22:29, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
- This article meets the GA standard! Congrats to Turini2 and all those editors who worked on it. —Ganesha811 (talk) 02:21, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
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1. Well-written: | ||
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. |
Have done so! There's a few duplications where I thought it would be useful - tables and the like - and I've edited the text slightly so more complicated terms appear where they are most useful (Transport and Works Act for example). Turini2 (talk) 17:41, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
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1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. |
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2. Verifiable with no original research: | ||
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. |
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2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). |
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2c. it contains no original research. |
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2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. |
Have done so! Turini2 (talk) 17:41, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
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3. Broad in its coverage: | ||
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. |
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3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). |
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4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. |
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5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. |
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6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: | ||
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. |
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6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. |
Yeah, I think that was the logic there - I'll duplicate it. Turini2 (talk) 14:05, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
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7. Overall assessment. |