Talk:Poll (parrot)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by DimensionalFusion talk 09:15, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

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• ... that a parrot reportedly screamed profanities at the funeral of Andrew Jackson?

• Source: https://www.snopes.com//fact-check/andrew-jacksons-swearing-parrot-funeral/

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Zhong Jingwen

Created by Di (they-them) (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 16 past nominations.

Di (they-them) (talk) 02:33, 26 July 2024 (UTC).

• - Age and length are fine. No copvio/plagiarism concerns (Earwig = 26% but it's a quote). The hook is entertaining, and reliably sourced. I think it's good to go. KJP1 (talk) 05:55, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

• Pulled per Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Prep 6: Poll (parrot) (nom). SL93 (talk) 16:04, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

@Di (they-them): Please address the contents of Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 201#Prep 6: Poll (parrot) (nom).--Launchballer 20:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: I believe I already addressed the concerns in the discussion. The sources cited are reliable and the hook is confirmed by the sources. Di (they-them) (talk) 20:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Looking at the article, I agree. I just tried to rearrange the article so that it would not deserve {{lead extra info}}, but did not see the words "African grey" in either of the sources in the lead. I think this should be added to the body and cited.--Launchballer 08:04, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

• https://www.naplesnews.com/story/news/local/communities/marco-eagle/2016/08/03/strange-but-true-andrew-jackson-and-cursing-parrot/87926936/ is an egregious example of an unreliable source. RoySmith (talk) 12:31, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

@Di (they-them): Please address the above. For the record, I can live with Naples News, as it is a) a subsidiary of USA Today, which is listed green at WP:RSP (i.e. there probably isn't zero factchecking), and b) the article is being used for a not terribly controversial claim about a dead animal. I'm happy to take it. I would still like to see "African grey" sourced.--Launchballer 12:15, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

I think your response about Naples News is good. If necessary, I can remove it since it's just reinforcing claims by other sources as well. As for "African grey", that's just a synonym for Grey parrot, so it's just a matter of semantics. I'll change the wording in the article to say "Grey parrot" instead just to be safe. Di (they-them) (talk) 14:19, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

I have raised this question at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Listicle as a RS? RoySmith (talk) 15:01, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Are all grey parrots African? If not, this needs a source.--Launchballer 07:38, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Grey parrot and African grey refer to a specific species of parrot, Psittacus erithacus. Di (they-them) (talk) 12:35, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

I've taken it out myself, you can put it back with a source. New reviewer requested.--Launchballer 21:17, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: How reliable is the Presidential Pets Museum? It's not supporting anything extraordinary at the moment, but I'm wondering because it does specify that Poll was an African grey parrot.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 21:58, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure how I can prove the reliability of the museum. I think that a museum dedicated to a subject should be considered reliable, but other than that I don't know. Di (they-them) (talk) 22:13, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• According to their page, they were established by one person, with one other person taking over after 18 years - hence my question. A passion project is not necessarily reliable. As I said, the claim it's supporting is not controversial, and implied by other sources. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:23, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

I interpret their Media Coverage page as proof that they meet WP:SPS and WP:UBO, so I'd be inclined to take it.--Launchballer 22:36, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• Agreed. Good to go now.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:16, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Embellishment

Not only is the entire funeral story possibly not true, but the newspaper sources are clearly embellished. Snopes contacted experts who did in-depth research and concluded the entire thing is sourced to a contemporary witness Rev. William Menefee Norment. One could take the recent newspaper sources at their word, but Snopes strongly suggests otherwise. It should probably be reframed as a story originating with Norment, and sticking close to his wording not repeating later embellishments.

Keep in mind Jackson was the Trump of his age, a colorful populist who people loved or hated and seen by many as immoral. It's perhaps no accident the account was written by a Rev. -- GreenC 04:55, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Reaction of the slaves

I removed it here Special:Diff/1246870433/1246870973 because as the source says this is a trope of the 19th century white slaver caste. An inclusion would need to expand on this trope and put it in context, as the cited source itself does. -- GreenC 15:48, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

"horrified and awed at the bird's lack of reverence"

Some sources (WaPo) expand on it to include this quote, but it's not part of the only known source: [1]. Where does it originate? -- GreenC 17:09, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Transcriber: Fannie Norment

To add a further layer of complication, the supposed only known source [2] is actually written/transcribed by someone named Fannie Norment, who is (according to FindAGrave) his oldest daughter, so we have an additional person in the middle. We don't know Mr Norment's state of mind at age 91, recalling events when he was 15 years old, or how much leeway Fannie took. -- GreenC 17:19, 21 September 2024 (UTC)