Talk:Prashant Kishor

Removal of quotes as probable copyvio

The copyvio report for this page threw up an enormous amount of copyvio here for the excessive quotes which were contrary to MOS:QUOTE which I removed. --Dom from Paris (talk) 17:10, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2018

Please remove "Buxar" from place of birth as this information is not collabrated with supporting articles and is also worng and correct place of birth is Sasaram, Bihar 1988LP (talk) 13:20, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

 Done L293D (☎ • ✎) 13:34, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2018

please add Sasaram, Biharas place of Birth 1988LP (talk) 13:43, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2018

please add Sasaram, Bihar as birth place 220.225.234.99 (talk) 14:02, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Caste

'Bhumihar / Brahman — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rohiroy14 (talk • contribs) 09:13, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Prashant Kishor.png

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:23, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

August 2024

@Savarni007: His birthname Prashant Kishore Pandey is sourced reliably. And we mention the birthname of a person per the guideline MOS:BIRTHNAME even if the subject doesn't use it (example Amitabh Bachchan). Do not remove it because you do not like it. This article is a property of the Wikipedia, and doesn't belong to any organisation or the subject of the article (see WP:OWN). It will be edited maintained according to the policies and guidelines laid out by Wikipedia. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:38, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Fylindfotberserk - the article uses "Pandey" for Prashant Kishor but doesn't provide any valid reference confirming that his name actually has "Pandey" as surname. There are several dozen articles not using the same. Couple of examples: 1. https://www.business-standard.com/about/who-is-prashant-kishor

2. https://indianexpress.com/article/political-pulse/prashant-kishor-jan-suraaj-dalits-muslims-9444730/

Not sure why the sourced article is taken to be reliable while every other article is being ignored. He himself has mentioned in a lot of interviews that his name is Prashant Kishor and not Prashant Kishor Pandey.

Can use any of the above mentioned articles as source to update his name "reliably". Savarni007 (talk) 18:50, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@Savarni007: If the subject's popular name is mentioned in lieu of his birth-name in many sources, doesn't mean we have to ignore his birthname which are reliable soourced. See Amitabh Bachchan article for that matter. There is a reason why the article is named Prashant Kishor instead of Prashant Kishore Pandey, because the former is the WP:COMMONNAME, the it is true that the birthname is Prashant Kishore Pandey, and should be reflected when supported by sources per MOS:BIRTHNAME. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:57, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: But what source is supporting that his actual birthname was PKP and not PK? The sourced articles are similar to any other article (which uses PK) and don't give a proof to his birthname actually being PKP instead of PK! Savarni007 (talk) 19:13, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Oh.. can you link any interview (video or otherwise) where he says that "Pandey" was never part of his name? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:59, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: Had seen this recently in a YT video where some person from the audience used PKP and he corrected them. Let me check if I can find the link. Savarni007 (talk) 19:15, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@Savarni007: The sources provided supports that his actual birthname is Prashant Kishore Pandey, he uses a shorted version. It is within teh limits of the guidleines and policies to use the birthname in the lead and the infobox. Him merely correcting the audience to not use his surname isn't the same as not having the surname in the first place. You have to find a source where he explicitly says in an interview that he was never a 'Pandey' to begin with, but had another surname or nothing at all. Many people do not use surnames in India, as it carries the caste badge. Harivansh Rai Bachhan, Amitabh Bachhan, actor Divyenndu, are examples, but their birthnames are reflected in the articles since we do not censor information. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:29, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: Can you please share the provided confirmation support (link to an article or image) from the mentioned sources of his actual birthname being PKP? I can't find any on the source links. Savarni007 (talk) 19:33, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@Savarni007: The source you have been removing this as well as this one, per MOS:FULLNAME MOS:BIRTHNAME. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 19:47, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: They don't provide any support on why they are using "Pandey". They are as good as any another article not using "Pandey".

Not sure why they are considered as being "reliable". Until and unless they provide supported documents to verify his birthname to be PKP shouldn't we go with what he uses in public (PK) as it is supposed to be more "reliable" as compared to couple of random articles. Savarni007 (talk) 19:54, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@Savarni007: They are using the full name of the subject which is good as far as the guideline is concerned, and are reliable source outlets. They wouldn't be needing extra documents (WP:PRIMARY) since they are WP:SECONDARY sources themselves and Wikipedia articles should be based on WP:SECONDARY. This is the crux of it, otherwise, we may want to see whether "Prashant Kishor" in itself is a name supported by legal documents or not. The reason this article exists is because there are loads of secondary sources mentioning him as "Prashant Kishor" (WP:COMMONNAME).

Here in this tweet, a journalist mentions his full name - "The name is Pandey! Prashant Kishor Pandey!". And another source calls him प्रशांत पांडे (प्रशांत किशोर). I don't understand the issue with his full name. Is it political and caste related? Associated with Jan Suraaj? I see you and a few other IPs trying to remove it. Be wary of WP:SOCK. Wikipedia articles are bound by Wiki guidelines and policies and not external agencies, even concerning the subject themselves. So, if you can, bring that interview you were talking about, where the subject explicitly said that he never had the surname. Note that even if people change their names legally, older names have to be reflected, if sources are available. Pinging @Gotitbro, Ravensfire, and PadFoot2008: for inputs. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 20:26, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:LEGALNAME, the full (official) name needs to be reliably sourced. In India, official records are limited to certain governmental ones (but not censuses) like company directories and government employee/functionary/political bios.

The sources on the Talk page here NewsX and Sunday Guardian (both owned by ITV Network (India)) are not particularly reliable, better sources should be listed for the name otherwise we need to pay heed to Kishor's comments. Gotitbro (talk) 20:59, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

We aren't exactly discussing WP:LEGALNAME, but MOS:FULLNAME / MOS:BIRTHNAME. According to Dainik Bhaskar and ABP, the family surname is Pandey (quote "प्रशांत किशोर के पिता डॉक्टर श्रीकांत पांडेय का दिल्ली में मंगलवार की रात 8 बजे निधन हो गया" .. प्रशांत किशोर के पिता दिवंगत श्रीकांत पांडे डॉक्टर थे). It is likely that he carried it, even if he had removed it legally later, for which we would need sources. Either way, the fullname/birthname should be mentioned if sources are available. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 21:31, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

OK.. a few more RS The Hindu, Deccan Herald, The Times of India, and Business World, mentioning his father's name — Shrikant Pandey. There are many, I wonder why I listed those non-English sources . - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 21:40, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

News articles can be taken as reference points but such secondary sources push narrative building exercise and therefore, not reliable. In cases where an individual's identity comes into question, we find secondary sources establishing their point of views to cater to their respective audience. Hence, it's imperative to take into consideration the choice of individual in question. In Mr. Prashant's case, he has clearly stated while making a correction in a public meeting that his name must be addressed as Prashant Kishor and not as Prashant Kishor Pandey. "It is LIKELY that he carried it" in itself is a vague argument to make as there's no clarity from your end on whether he carried it or not. Therefore, the use of name as Prashant Kishor stands valid and more reliable. Savarni007 (talk) 07:52, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: Please find the link of an interview where PK states that his name is PK & not PKP. He has clearly mentioned that his father's surname was "Pandey" but his name is PK only.

Please update the name to show the corrected version. Savarni007 (talk) 09:07, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

The video suggests that he had no intention to carry forward his father's surname and it is a matter of individual's choice to define his identity. Therefore, the name Prashant Kishor stands valid and justified. Savarni007 (talk) 10:44, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Conversely, the only narrative building here seems to deny use of his full name per MOS. WP:SECONDARY, like these news articles, are considered reliable per Wikipedia policies, and neither it is vague nor untrue since it is proven that his parents carried it. Point (or I say the narrative) is, the subject apparently doesn't want to display it in the media, maybe to "cater to their respective audience", but then again things like "choice of individual in question" or "individual's choice to define his identity" isn't how Wikipedia works since they do not WP:OWN the articles. What can be done is to clearly explain in this section (supported by sources) that Mr Kishor doesn't like to carry the surname (and the reason), similar to how it is done at Amitabh_Bachchan#Early life and family. I already explained clearly, the reason the article name is "Prashant Kishor" is because that's how he is known commonly, but we can't ignore the mention of his fullname when sources are available. Understand that we are not changing the article name or its use all over Wikipedia, it is mentioned only in two places abiding by guidelines in this particular article. See Fidel Castro for example.

If he said that he "must be addressed as Prashant Kishor and not as Prashant Kishor Pandey", it kinda implies that the latter is his fullname, which might have been dropped legally or not. In case, he legally changed his name (we would need a source for that), the lead sentence would be structured as - Prashant Kishor (born Prashant Kishor Pandey) colloquially known as PK.... And please provide the timestamp for this. I've pinged a few others @Bishonen, LukeEmily, 25 Cents FC, NitinMlk, GrabUp, Ratnahastin, Dympies, Ekdalian, and Jonathansammy: and at WP:INB. Let them comment. Thanks. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 13:01, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I have gone through the above discussion, and I completely agree with Fylindfotberserk! Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 18:06, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

The page of Ravish Kumar starts with "Ravish Kumar (born Ravish Kumar Pandey; 5 December 1974)". So I don't see any problem with Prashant Kishor being introduced in a similar manner. Thanks. Jonathansammy (talk) 15:38, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

The timestamp for the Source video is 23:27 where he (Prashant Kishor) is clearly saying that his name is NOT Prashant Kishor Pandey. His Brahmin caste (using Pandey surname) is being deliberately highlighted now a days by some opposition Parties (source) in Bihar with the intention to label Jan Suraaj (his Party) as a Brahmin (casteist) Party. This is completely a narrative building by opposition parties in Bihar & the wikipedia is being made a part of it. Kusinara (talk) 12:19, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

You are wrong. Wikipedia follows its own policies and guidelines. It is not part of political narratives and POVs peddled by the subject's party or the opposition. The guidelines support the mention of fullname / birthnames when sources are provided and hence it is well within its limits. Besides, he clearly says ,"Then I'm asking for Bhiksha..", in the very next sentence implying his caste. In IMO, I don't see a reason to hide it, when things are in public domain / news portal. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 13:58, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk @Savarni007 Caste has nothing to do with name & there is nothing to hide about his caste but Pandey is not a caste, Brahmin is. Expand (about his caste) in the Personal/Early life section that he was born in Brahmin family but When he himself clarified in the video that his name is NOT Pandey (Pandey is not a caste), it raises questions about why it is being considered his fullname/birthname. It seems unnecessary to forcibly attach the surname Pandey to him, especially since there is no concrete evidence that it is part of his name. Since his father was named Pandey, He must be having Pandey in his name is totally an assumption (as the newspaper you quoted doesn't contain any proof of it). It's essential to avoid making assumptions based on his father's surname.

For ex - Nitish Kumar's (the current CM of Bihar) father name is Kaviraj Ram Lakhan Singh but neither does Nitish carry the same Surname nor does his name indicates his caste. Using your logic, it would be wrong to assume that Nitish Kumar's birth name should have included Singh due to his father's surname. Kusinara (talk) 15:19, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

This is not "my logic", but Wikipedia guidelines which you seem to be against for a certain political agenda (yourself agreed to it). There are enough sources that mention his fullname / birthname bearing the 'Pandey' part, and we are very much within the limits to mention it. Also do read WP:OWN, this article belongs to Wikipedia, not the subject, his representatives or anybody else. And you have seen the building consensus. AS for Nitin Kumar, if you find a source(s) mentioning his fullname, by all means add it, instead of using it here for whataboutism. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:27, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if the person wants to use their actual name or not. Wikipedia will include it as long as the name is valid and reliably sourced. Ratnahastin (talk) 13:08, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Agree with @Ratnahastin and @Fylindfotberserk based on the rationale provided by them above. PadFoot (talk) 13:28, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

People can change their name to anything, and it will be added to the article if supported by reliable sources. However, birth name is birth name, and it must be included. There is also a specific option in every infobox to add the birth name separately. I agree with Fylindfotberserk. GrabUp - Talk 14:56, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

From what I see, there are some reliable sources calling him Prashant Kishor Pandey, but there far more (numerous) reliable sources calling him just Prashant Kishor. His organization and he himself uses that only. I do not think we have any legal evidence to prove one way or other. I am not aware if one should go by sheer strength of sources in cases of conflict between reliable sources, but my WP:COMMONSENSE says if there are far more RS calling him just Kishor, then we should go by that until we have a legal/formal evidence for other, or until RS start using Pandey more frequently. Thanks, Please feel free to ping/mention -- User4edits (T) 07:55, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

You seem to be confusing WP:COMMONNAME with MOS:FULLNAME. The reason the article is named Prashant Kishor instead of Prashant Kishor Pandey is because there are "far more (numerous) reliable sources" using the former, but that doesn't mean we can't mention his fullname / birthname within the limits of MOS:FULLNAME policy. See Amitabh Bachchan, Harivansh Rai Bachchan, Mayawati, for example, who have/had dropped their surnames for various reasons, including political (which seems to be the case with this one). But these articles do mention their fullname in the lead and IB per guidelines and general MOS, supported by RS, which are BTW are only a handful. Secondly, WP:COMMONSENSE is an 'essay' not a Wikipedia guideline or policy. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:10, 22 August 2024 (UTC)