Talk:Roekiah

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Roekiah/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Grapple X (talk · contribs) 03:14, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

Sorry for the delay, realised I had better some something about WP:GTC. I'll probably be spending the rest of the night there after this. :(

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

   "beginning singing by the early 1930s" -> might want to allude to it being her career here, as opposed to just starting the actual practice. "beginning her singing career by the early 1930s" or "beginning work in music" or whatever suits best.
   Done
   "After signing with Tan's Film for their 1938 work Fatima" -> I'd change work to production but that's just me.
   Sure
   "and keroncong (traditional music with Portuguese influences[4]) singer" -> could this maybe by "and singer of keroncong (traditional music with Portuguese influences[4])", so that the aside doesn't split a phrase?
   Not sure if "singer of pop" or "singer of rock" would be allowed (keroncong is a genre, after all) but I agree about the parenthetical.
   Hmm. By that analogue, I'd be okay with "singer of pop music" so surely "singer of keroncong music (...)" would be fine.
   Done
   "Roekiah and Kartolo received 150 gulden and 50 gulden respectively monthly" -> not keen on the two adverbs side by side here; try "Roekiah and Kartolo received a monthly holding fee 150 gulden and 50 gulden respectively,"
   Done
   

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

   Yep.

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

   Grand.

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

   Sure.

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

   Not a problem.

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   I'm fine taking the image as is; but I believe you mentioned it possibly being free in Indonesia too when you mentioned this article to me. Is there any update on that?

   Check the file page (free in US and Indonesia, not free in the Netherlands [the colonial power which may still allow copyright protection for the image], hence this is hosted locally) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:58, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   You know the drill. Not exactly a hefty schedule to fix this one up, and nothing's really an issue so much as me being fussy. GRAPPLE X 00:30, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

   That should be it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:08, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

   Well I'm satisfied. Fling some more at me if you get a chance. I'm wondering how deep a GT on a single film needs to be; might be worth looking into if you're working so thoroughly through this particular field. GRAPPLE X 01:13, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

   • I don't think I have any closely-enough related. Terang Boelan + Roekiah wouldn't be enough, Wong brothers, Saeroen, Rd Mochtar, and Albert Balink would need to be GA as well. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:20, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

   • That's what I was thinking, is the film plus its primary cast and crew enough. This one's a small production so it's less tricky than wondering would, say Fight Club (film); Fight Club, Brad Pitt, Edward Norton and David Fincher be enough to work (as is that's just missing Fincher as there's 2 FAs and 2 GAs, which is probably why I'm wondering). Ah well; that's for a whole other time really. Well done. GRAPPLE X 01:25, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Gagak Item / Gagak Hitam

Just to let you know that I have changed a link from Gagam Hitam to Gagak Item, since the latter is the predominant spelling; besides, the former spelling produces a red link.

Sources using Gagak Item

• "Gagak Item". Bataviaasch Nieuwsblad (in Dutch). Batavia: Kolff & Co. 19 December 1939. p. 3. Retrieved 8 March 2013.
• "(untitled)". Bataviaasch Nieuwsblad (in Dutch). Batavia: Kolff & Co. 19 December 1939. p. 8. Retrieved 8 March 2013.
• "Filmaankondiging Cinema Palace: 'Gagak Item'". Bataviaasch Nieuwsblad (in Dutch). Batavia: Kolff & Co. 21 December 1939. p. 12. Retrieved 8 March 2013. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |trans_title= ignored (|trans-title= suggested) (help)
• "(untitled)". Soerabaijasch Handelsblad (in Dutch). Surabaya: Kolff & Co. 28 March 1940. p. 3. Retrieved 8 March 2013.
• Imanjaya, Ekky (2006). A to Z About Indonesian Film (in Indonesian). Bandung: Mizan. p. 111. ISBN 978-979-752-367-1. Retrieved 8 March 2013.
• "Kartolo". filmindonesia.or.id (in Indonesian). Konfidan Foundation. Archived from the original on 22 September 2012. Retrieved 8 March 2013. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
• "Gagak Item". filmindonesia.or.id (in Indonesian). Jakarta: Konfiden Foundation. Archived from the original on 4 March 2013. Retrieved 8 March 2013. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
• "Roekiah". Internet Movie Database. Amazon.com. Retrieved 8 March 2013.

Sources using Gagak Hitam

• "Roekiah". filmindonesia.or.id (in Indonesian). Konfidan Foundation. Archived from the original on 13 August 2012. Retrieved 8 March 2013. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
• "Roekiah" (in Indonesian). Taman Ismail Marzuki. Archived from the original on 13 August 2012. Retrieved 8 March 2013.

Note that the earliest sources, in Dutch, use Gagak Item. Nite-Sirk (talk) 18:30, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

• D'oh! Should have double checked the spelling. Thanks for catching that. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:04, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

• (Particularly embarrassing as I wrote both...) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:06, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Nationality

The article says she was an "Indonesian kroncong singer and film actress". Wouldn't it be better to call her an Indian (I'm not that good at English, doesn't Indian only mean native American) singer? It was only until 1949 that Indonesia got acknowledged as a country. FeyBart (talk) 19:28, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

I should explain: these days, if you say someone is "Indian", that means they are from India. As you may already know, when Christopher Columbus discovered what we now call the West Indies (part of the "New World"), he believed it was part of India, and therefore he thought that the inhabitants were Indians. The name "Indian" kind of stuck after that, which is why for man years the natives of the Americas were called Indians, even though of course they weren't actually from India. These days we say "Native Americans" or "Amerindians". And this lady is from Bandung, West Java. That was then part of what was known as the "Dutch East Indies" and what we would now call Indonesia. Actually "Indonesia" is a name which actually goes as far back as 1850. I think we have to call this lady Indonesian in the introduction for clarity. Immediately after the intro comes the biography which explains exactly where she was born. Invertzoo (talk) 21:02, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks, Invertzoo. That's what I was going for. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:24, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

While we're on the subject of "Indonesian", there was an addition to the IB to add that as her ethnicity, I'm not sure Indonesian classifies as an ethnicity, but thought I'd leave it to those with a better grasp to make the call. - SchroCat (talk) 05:58, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

• Sorry I missed this. No, definitely a no go. Her ethnicity was mixed Sundanese and Malay. Indonesian was her nationality for the x months she lived past the proclamation (if we go with the 1945 independence date) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:27, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

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