Talk:S&Man

Latest comment: 12 years ago by Crisco 1492 in topic GA Review
Good articleS&Man has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
November 2, 2011Good article nomineeNot listed
April 22, 2012Peer reviewReviewed
April 25, 2012Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Good article

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:S&Man/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk · contribs) 12:06, 2 November 2011 (UTC)Reply


I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: none found.

Linkrot: none found. Jezhotwells (talk) 12:09, 2 November 2011 (UTC)Reply

Checking against GA criteria

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GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose):   b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):  
    The lead does not fully summarize the article, please read and apply WP:LEAD
    The film compares the aspects of filmmaking and voyeurism. Which aspects?
    explaining what the film was originally conceived to be. Extremely poor prose.
    S&Man exposes the voyeuristic nature of faux snuff films and the desensitizing of modern society. needs in text attribution, sounds like a quote, otherwise it is POV
    S&Man is mainly focused around Eric Rost "focused around"?
    The film has a fictional subplot where Erik Marcisak acts as if he is Eric Rost in a role that tries to raise the question on whether or not Eric Rost's films are really snuff films. confusing and unclear.
    Finding a camera taping his neighbor's house for hours fascinated him so much that he thought that he should direct a film about it. sentence changes subject halfway through.
    OK, please take this away get it copy-edited by someone who can write good plain English. I am quick-failing this now on the shoddy prose. When you have had it copy-edit, please read and apply the good article criteria, then take it to peer review before renominating.
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):   b (citations to reliable sources):   c (OR):  
    You might like to investigate some more reliable sources. Fangoria, Bloody Disgusting, Dreadzone are hardly high-quality.
    Just a note that Fangoria and Bloody Disgusting are both listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Film/Resources#List of potential resources as "sources that have been established as reliable in the field of films per past consensus" (emphasis in original). --Demiurge1000 (talk) 13:24, 2 November 2011 (UTC)Reply
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):   b (focused):  
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:  
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:  
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):   b (appropriate use with suitable captions):  
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:  
    Quick-fail on the extremely shoddy prose. I am sorry that you have had to wait so long and then get a quick-fail, but you could have avoided this by checking yourself that the article met the good article criteria before you nominated it. Jezhotwells (talk) 12:31, 2 November 2011 (UTC)Reply
I wanted to clarify that Fangoria and Bloody Disgusting are WP:RS and have been used in numerous GA film articles, especially Fangoria. —Mike Allen 19:48, 2 November 2011 (UTC)Reply
Dread Central has helped save articles in AfD. I tried fixing everything that was mentioned and renominated it. Hopefully I actually get a chance to fix things if there are anymore problems. SL93 (talk) 17:57, 21 April 2012 (UTC)Reply

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:S&Man/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Crisco 1492 (talk · contribs) 07:10, 22 April 2012 (UTC)Reply

Checklist

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Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well-written:
  1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.
  1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. See below
2. Verifiable with no original research:
  2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. See below
  2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). Fine
  2c. it contains no original research. Fine
3. Broad in its coverage:
  3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. See below
  3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). Fine...
  4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. Fine
  5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. Per definition. Only constructive edits
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
  6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. Fine. One image, valid FUR
  6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. Only image is a poster, for identification
  7. Overall assessment. Pending

Comments

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General
  • Flow needs a bit of work, we're jumping from idea to idea here.
  • If you provide more context, the flow should come naturally. Missing information seems to be what's killing the prose here.
Lede
  • "It contains interviews with indie horror filmmakers and a scripted plot that comes into focus in the film's second half." ... "He interviewed experts in the horror and voyeur film industry. The experts include Carol J. Clover, a sexologist, and a forensic psychologist. Three faux snuff film directors, Eric Marcisak, Bill ZeBub, and Fred Vogel, are featured prominently. The film also features a fictional subplot that tries to make viewers question if Marcisaks' films are truly snuff." - If we're giving a summary, it should be in one place.
Plot
  • Plots don't have to be referenced, so you could just watch the film and write the plot yourself. That would ensure a better flow.
  • Also, would "Summary" work better?
Production
  • "his neighborhood " - Whose?
  • "the three other directors that would later become subjects of his documentary" - Who?
  • "J. T. Petty argued that most mainstream horror films "are rooted in the same voyeuristic leanings which sell such freakish fetish videos"" - Relevance?
Home video
  • This should probably be split into several sentences.
Film festivals
  • "The film's release at the Toronto International Film Festival caused controversy including online" - Unclear. Controversy including online?
Reception
  • [insert name here] said... - A bit repetitive. More variety, perhaps?
  • We should not start #Production with {{quote}}. {{Quote box}} is probably better.
  • The section "Film references" is too short to warrant its own section. I'd suggest either developing it further or merging it with #Production
  • Compare current FN2 and FN13. Is Dread Central the publisher (and therefore normal text) or the work (and therefore italicised)? Might want to double check the other sources.
  • Just a comment, you should standardise whether or not you link the publisher/work.
  • What makes Dread Central a reliable source?
  • It never saw a theatrical release? Has that been mentioned anywhere? When were the film festivals held? When were the DVD and Blu-Ray released?
  • A bit more about the works of the subjects
  • Film references section should really be expanded.
  • "Eric Rost's S&MAN video series" - A bit of context, for us who don't know anything about the series?
  • The Complete S&Man – Episode 11 - Perhaps an explanation on what it is
  • "Midnight Madness" - Which is?
  • South by Southwest - which is held where?
  • What kind of controversy occurred in Toronto?
  • Apparently Time did a review here (I like the quote from another director: "JT, you sick fuck!"... shame its not in a more reliable source).

Spotchecks

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  • FN1
  • FN1a: Verified, no close paraphrasing
  • FN1b: Verified, no close paraphrasing
  • FN1c: Verified, no close paraphrasing
  • FN7
FN7a: Verified, quoted
FN7b: Verified, quoted
FN7c: Verified, no close paraphrasing
FN7d: Verified, acceptable paraphrasing
  • FN13: Verified, no close paraphrasing
  • FN18: Verified, no close paraphrasing
  • Spotchecks are fine.

Further discussion

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I made a lot of changes. Can you take a look at them? SL93 (talk) 15:04, 23 April 2012 (UTC)Reply

  • K, looking a little more complete. Before we worry about grammar, let's make sure the content will be fairly stable (i.e. we aren't expecting any more major additions):

I was just wondering when you are going to copy edit the article. I'm fine with whenever you decide, I just want to be ready for any corrections I might still need to make. SL93 (talk) 16:43, 24 April 2012 (UTC)Reply

  • Ok, I took another look at it, I think it's just about ready for promotion. A couple things I saw that I couldn't resolve via copyediting:
  • "Petty suspects that Eric actually kills women for his snuff films, a suspicion further exasperated when Rost says that he will relay Petty's contact information to the women instead of giving their contact information to Petty." I assume you meant "exacerbated" rather than "exasperated"?
  • "In the beginning of the film, clips show the directors and Clover commenting on a horror film that is not shown onscreen or mentioned." This sentence seems to contradict itself, if it's commented on then isn't it mentioned? Mark Arsten (talk) 23:52, 24 April 2012 (UTC)Reply