Talk:Sadomasochism/Archive 2
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| Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Forensic categorizations
I moved these questionable classifications into their own forensic section within the section on modern psychological perspectives. It belongs there (if it belongs at all) and not as a giant block of text at the beginning of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.110.236.229 (talk) 17:57, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Why were the forensic categorizations entirely deleted? They are certainly not outdated and can be found in enough medical literature to merit staying in. No problem with placing them in a separate paragraph, but deletion is a bit too much! AlphonseMaturin (talk) 05:48, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
"Active" & "Passive" vs "Dominant" & "Submissive"
Hello, today I made three edits to this page. First in the introductory paragraphs I added examples after the portion that states practicioners can feel pleasure as if in other situations. That edit was removed, it must not have conformed to wiki guidelines. My second edit was to clean up what I thought was ingrammatical English in the first introductory paragraph. During that edit I changed the unlinked terms "active" and "passive" to "dominant" and "submissive" respectively in the edited portion. This edit is still active at the time of post. My third edit was to the same paragraph to change "passive" to "submissive" to keep consistency with the edits previous.
There are no (few if any) "actives" or "passives" in the BDSM community. Use of those terms only serves to confuse. In consensual activity neither is truly passive. The BDSM community uses the terms "dominant" and "submissive". For example typing submissive or dominant into the wikipedia search engine will produce a page that can lead to BDSM related material while using passive and active are much less effective for that search.
If my edits are accepted by the community I would come back to link "dominant" and "Submissive" in the introductory paragraphs to the relevant pages, and replace "active" and "passive" with "dominant" and "submissive" throughout the article for consistency.
Sincerely, Master Edward— Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.35.190 (talk) 08:50, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Redirecting to BDSM.
(For interested readers, there was some prior discussion on this at Talk:BDSM.)
There is apparent need for discussion about whether this page should remain an independent article or be a redirect to BDSM. I turned the page into a redirect, noting that the content of the page is largely unsourced OR, the RS's that do exist actual refer to terms other than "sadomasochism," and the usable material itself is already contained on the BDSM page. The page has been long-tagged with multiple issues. User:HalJor has reinstated the article ([[1]] here). Although that makes HalJor responsible for its content, there has been no effort in the week since to fill in the 17(!) "citation needed" tags, nor the other issues. I know the RS's in this area very well, and (given some exceptions) their overall tenor is that "BDSM" unambiguously refers to the healthy, consensual variety; "sexual sadism" and "sexual sadism disorder" refer to the dangerous, mental illness variety; and "sadomasochism" is ambiguous. Although I made the page a redirect; it would also be logical to turn it into a disambiguation page. (In fact, I wish I had thought of that originally...)
I encourage readers to read the (few) citations that appear on the page, specifically to verify that most of them use terms other than "sadomasochism," and do not actually support the existence of the page independent of pages using unambiguous names.
This article is not exactly user-friendly
It progresses from a basic description to extremely dense sociological language in a few paragraphs. Kaini (talk) 04:34, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
- Worse than that, great sections of it are unreferenced, except for name-checking authors and books in passing. We need citations to specific editions and page numbers. -- The Anome (talk) 11:37, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
Concern
This article looks somewhat like a fork of the articles on sadistic and masochistic disorder. The reason may be an unwillingness by those maintaining the article to acknowledge any relationship, no matter how small, between sadomasochism and mental disorder. Although they are not in any way the same, trying to completely disassociate the two terms is too extreme as a position. The fact that this article has issues and contains original research is possibly another sign pointing to personal involvement and conflicts of interest by certain editors. There is also the fact that this topic's issues unrelated to mental health are already covered in other articles — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohBr1 (talk • contribs) 09:15, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
NOT related to BDSM!
There should actually be a way to link the phrase "S&M" directly to "Sadomasochism." Bondage and Discipline are a TOTALLY "different" modality. PiPhD (talk) 22:17, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
- Why and who says so? Without references this is a claim which can be false as much as it could be true.--213.143.51.31 (talk) 19:05, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
External links modified
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Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
- Felicia Fox 6 (cropped).jpg (discussion)
- Shirtless man whipping two nude women.jpg (discussion)
- Shuster Nights of Horror-18.jpg (discussion)
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Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:11, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
Masochism unconnected with sadism?
The standalone article for “masochism” redirects here for some reason, which leads me to wonder: is it possible for masochism to exist on its own without being attached to sadism (i.e. can one enjoy receiving pain while disapproving of pain being inflicted upon others?) On a related note, is there a non-sexual form of sadism and/or masochism, where individuals enjoy inflicting and/or receiving pain but do not receive that pleasure in the form of sexual gratitude? The article lacks in that regard. 2001:4453:534:9600:4413:2D6B:D61:BBDC (talk) 12:54, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:36, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Recommend removing the pornographic images. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:2520:6040:567:B97B:E444:EA0A (talk) 02:10, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
Does a masochist literally enjoy pain?
It's something to think about and maybe include in the article. I would say, no. Nobody enjoys pain for pain's sake. There's something else they're getting out of the experience, a psychological fulfillment or acting out of some sort. 2600:8801:BE26:2700:B09F:3FEF:E7EB:2AC5 (talk) 15:06, 16 November 2021 (UTC) James.
- Yes, IF it's "good pain", definitely! I've seen people enjoy being flogged, caned, given huge enemas, etc., but if they had a headache or stubbed their toe, etc., they would hate it as much as anyone else would! Helen4780 (talk) 17:37, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
- I am going to answer this please do not ask how I know. This is my own personal analyzation of the topic (kind of, DID is complicated). “Pain” is a very lose term, and to define it as any one feeling is a fools errand. Psychologically, the core concept that is generally appreciated is the association of excess endorphins released from certain kinds of nerve stimulation. Generally, this endorphin release comes from stimulation of sensitive sexual organs, however for masochists, that differs. (This topic is not well studied, due to the ethical concerns and closeted nature of the topic, however the commonly excepted theorem is that endorphin release is so strenuous and minuscule for an individual that the inflection of certain types of pain and the endorphin release associated there in in is enough to make an addictive dopamine loop, similar to the reason why people with depressive conditions are more likely to self harm.)
- The level and type of this pain can very greatly. I am incidentally an amazing individual for this comparison, as both of my personalities are masochistic in nature. I personally (as I am now) am more infatuated with the divide of an individual being lesser then another. The act of obeying is highly gratifying and the unpredictability of unconditional consent to virtually everything is thrilling. This me does not actively seek pain, however I won’t flee if it seeks me. Other me on the other hand is borderline addicted to pain, and derives extreme endorphins from extreme heat, cold, anything sharp, and trauma to padded tissue (of which is worth noting, I am basically anemic so take that as you will). Anything else, need be broken bones, a concussed head, tooth aches, and the rest are just as bad as they would be for you.
- I hope that answers your question Tlettr (talk) 20:08, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
- It isn't something to be included in the article unless you can find a source, and then include summation of that source.
- This article is already full of original content and needs a cleaning.
- Discuss your opinions and such over on fetlife, not wikipedia.
- 2600:8804:670C:AB00:B901:80DB:796E:9FC7 (talk) 10:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Haha! "Good pain?" Hmmm. What's the difference? Pain is pain. Is this a language problem or a problem separating two things that seem to be joined together but really aren't. Maybe the language of behaviorism would be helpful -- the concept of "contingencies of reinforcement." Pain is a contingency that is necessary (a condition that must be fulfilled) in order to get the pleasure. 2600:8801:BE26:2700:B09F:3FEF:E7EB:2AC5 (talk) 03:54, 17 November 2021 (UTC) James.
Original content
This article appears to be quite full of original content . Everything with the citation tag of 2011 and 2014 has been removed as citations were never provided and time has seriously passed. I've added citation tags to other areas on the article and if citations cannot be provided it will be assumed to be original content and also removed. 2600:8804:670C:AB00:B901:80DB:796E:9FC7 (talk) 10:48, 16 July 2024 (UTC)