Talk:Sarma (food)

Kohlrollen

They are also a well known in German Cuisine where they are known as Kohlrollen. Is it spelled Kohlrouladen? --buzlink 17:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The sentence about the German sarma sits quite awkwardly at the bottom of the article. Unfortunately I have no knowledge about this, so I wasn't bold enough to move it in the introductory section during my recent copyedit. Other takers? --Gutza ^{T T+} 02:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, it was certainly misplaced, so I rephrased it and moved. I also renamed the last section from the rather pompous "Cultural significance" to "Serving"merryXIV 16:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Sarmatian dish

Well this complete article is rubbish, the name Sarma comes from a place called Sarma and was adapted by Turks not oposite. 1. It´s made of pork (show me one muslim eating pork) 2. The Place Sarma is the ancient capital of the Alani, who brought this dish to Europe, which makes it a Sarmatian dish 3. The dish is much older that the first time Turk was spelled. Now please somebody correct this article unless there´s only Turks reading Wiki... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.0.50 (talk) 11:01, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Do you have reliable sources that can be cited for this claim? The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth.  --Lambiam 19:27, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Cabbage was also unknown to the Arab/Ottoman World until they came in contact with it in the Balkans. Cabbage spread from Western Europe. Just check history of Cabbage. Sarma is almost the same what ancient Greeks made with Wine-leafs...so no Turks were neccessary to "invent" this. It´s just like Spaghetti, the Chinese invented it but we know it by the Italian name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.12.137 (talk) 17:38, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

1. According to our Cabbage article: The cabbage is derived from a leafy wild mustard plant, native to the Mediterranean region. It was known to the ancient Greeks and Romans; Cato the Elder praised this vegetable for its medicinal properties, declaring that "it is first of all the vegetables. It was a common vegetable in Anatolia when the Turks came, and in fact in all former parts of the Roman Empire where the vegetable would grow, which is almost anywhere. The information about cabbage spreading from Western Europe, and being unknown to "the Arab/Ottoman World" (really two worlds apart) until "they" (surely not the Arabs) came in contact with it in the Balkans, is totally bogus; do not trust the source claiming that.
2. Nowhere does the article claim, or even suggest, that sarma is a Turkish "invention", but only that the name has a Turkish origin.
3. Cooked pasta-like dough dishes like noodles and gnocchi have almost certainly been invented several times independently, but as you can read in the article on Spaghetti, working pasta into thin long forms is actually an Arab innovation.
4. This discussion is pointless and will remain fruitless unless you can cite reliable sources for your claims.

 --Lambiam 21:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

National dish

I think that citing the related meal as a country's national dish is the new way of standing out in the article. I don't think it's really necessary and worth mentioning in the article. Furthermore, as we can guess, there can be numerous countries considering the related meal as their national dish. Shall we keep another long list of national dishes in the article? Thanks. --Chapultepec (talk) 02:12, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

An exception might be made if someone can show (with sources) that sarma is considered the national dish par excellence of some country, like fondue for Switzerland and haggis for Scotland. AFAIK sarma is just one of many popular dishes in Serbian cuisine.

That's reasonable, I agree with you. Not only in this article, but in general, if a meal is indeed a "par excellence" of a country, that is worth mentioning, of course along with its references. --Chapultepec (talk) 17:17, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Proposal to merge with Dolma

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was not to merge. Geoff ^{Who, me?} 19:43, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

---

In most cases people don't make a distinction between the two. Dolma can be (and is often) used for both Dolma and Sarma dishes, but Sarma is sometimes used to dishes that are "wrapped" (i.e. leaf/cabbage dishes). Sarma(Food) need only be a section the Dolma article, not an entire one on its own. Both Dolma and Sarma dishes usually share the same filling and similar preparations etc, and are derived from the same concept. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alperyasar (talk • contribs) 02:57, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm agree, same foods!Glavior (talk) 20:59, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

So, for you "Enginar Dolma" or "Uskumru Dolma" are derived from the same concept and usually share the same filling with say "Lahana Sarma". Congratulations... --E4024 (talk) 23:12, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

chrismas eve

It is not traditional in Croatia (and Serbia, and Bosnia and Herzegovina) to eat meat on Christmas eve, because usually fasting last until mass on Christmas eve (Badnje večer). Sarma is eaten on Christmas day, both for catholic and orthodox. Bosniaks (muslims) do not celebrate Christmas. Please correct:

Yummy, Yummy :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.238.65.171 (talk) 18:16, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

References

"Grape leaves"

Although strictly speaking these are the leaves belonging to the grape, they are always known in English as "vine leaves" (not "wine" with a "w" - the reference is not to the drink but to the plant). I actually had to stop for a moment to think what "grape leaves" was supposed to mean, then I remembered the Greek dish "dolmades", which is known in English as "stuffed vine leaves". "Grape leaves" is not an acceptable alternative - the term is simply never used by native English-speakers. I'd correct this myself, but the first reference is a link to the "Grape" article, and I don't want to damage the link by changing the word - the link from "vine" to an article called "Grape" may in any case be confusing. At one point this appears as "leaves of grapes", which sounds even less English - this too should become "vine leaves". I can only conclude this article has been written by a non-native user of English who did not bother to have it checked first by a native one.212.30.86.78 (talk) 11:54, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

The term grape leaf is widely used in the United States, where "vine" refers to any climbing or winding stem.  I have reverted the term to grape leaf because it is less ambiguous.  Recognize North (talk) 07:46, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Monk's rhubarb / patience dock

These two names for the same plant are used indiscriminately in this article, as if they were different species. Since the link takes you to an article called "Patience dock", I suggest this term be used throughout.212.30.86.78 (talk) 11:59, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Vine leaf roll

It would be better to create the food spinouts as they are needed, this article can merge into the parent without overburdening it. Both have been stubs since 2005. Seraphim System ^(talk) 18:19, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Merge with "Vine Leaf Wrap" article?

Both articles cover the same material. Vine leaf wrap is just Sarma using vine leaves. It's not a separate dish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bertan92 (talk • contribs) 13:10, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

• Support merge of Vine leaf roll into Sarma (food). Subset of same thing, identical photo, different names in different languages, WP:CONTENTFORK. I know these as dolmades; for which see Dolma#Wrapped Sarma, which says the {{main}} article is Sarma (food). As earlier discussions in this thread show, there's often petty nationalism in claiming a dish as native to one culture or another; when all that matters in English WP to enable English-speakers to find what they're looking for as easily as possible and to keep WP:POV out of it. Narky Blert (talk) 09:55, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Support Well, I moved some of the details about sarma here not for reasons of language but for practical reasons that the sarma section was becoming rather long relative to the other sections and risked overburdening the article. I'm not expecting this to be controversial since the vine leaf roll article is mostly a copy of content from this article, so I will merge them sometime in the next few days. Seraphim System ^(talk) 14:39, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 18:55, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

I

I 78.111.52.232 (talk) 21:23, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Rhetorical Practices from the Ancient World to Enlightenment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2023 and 3 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Alucard 7.33 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Alucard 7.33 (talk) 13:42, 14 March 2023 (UTC)