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GA Review
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Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Si Tjonat/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Dwaipayanc (talk · contribs) 18:37, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Can we de-pipelink indigenous in the lead, and use the word Native Indonesian?
- I can unlink it, but I am adverse to the term "native Indonesian" as there was no "Indonesia" at the time. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 18:42, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Should mention that it was a silent film in the lead.
- Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 18:42, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- "... escapes to the colonial capital at Batavia ". Which colony? wikilink?
- Clarified. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 18:42, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- One thing I have trouble understanding is the film being aimed at Chinese Indonesian? Were they culturally very distinct from Native Indonesian? Their language different? I mean how would one differentiate a film being aimed at Chinese versus native audience?--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:37, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Not language differences, but cultural ones. How could the film's target be identified? By having Chinese actors, for one. By showing an ethnic Chinese overpowering a native, for two. The political and cultural stratification is covered at Chinese Indonesians. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 18:42, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- " an ethnic Chinese overpowering a native"-- who was the ethnic Chinese?--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:45, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Thio Sing Sang. Clarified in text. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 18:47, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Probably irrelevant to this discussion, I see that in Indonesia's 2000 census, 1.2 per cent were ethnically Chinese. Were they so much more at the film's time that a producer would aim them as the target audience?--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:51, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Lower actually. This gives a total population in the Indies of 60.7 million for 1930, and this (cited) graph gives 582,000 ethnic Chinese. So not even 1%. The issue would have been more one of ethnicity and cultural alliances. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 18:58, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Its interesting and intriguing. Targeting just one per cent of the population, and still hoping to profit! --Dwaipayan (talk) 19:07, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- The ethnic Chinese had a lot more capital than natives (this is in the new footnote). Note that the only domestic films which could turn a profit during the Depression were all Chinese-oriented (and directed by The Teng Chun). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 19:12, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Its interesting and intriguing. Targeting just one per cent of the population, and still hoping to profit! --Dwaipayan (talk) 19:07, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Lower actually. This gives a total population in the Indies of 60.7 million for 1930, and this (cited) graph gives 582,000 ethnic Chinese. So not even 1%. The issue would have been more one of ethnicity and cultural alliances. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 18:58, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Probably irrelevant to this discussion, I see that in Indonesia's 2000 census, 1.2 per cent were ethnically Chinese. Were they so much more at the film's time that a producer would aim them as the target audience?--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:51, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Thio Sing Sang. Clarified in text. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 18:47, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- " an ethnic Chinese overpowering a native"-- who was the ethnic Chinese?--Dwaipayan (talk) 18:45, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Not language differences, but cultural ones. How could the film's target be identified? By having Chinese actors, for one. By showing an ethnic Chinese overpowering a native, for two. The political and cultural stratification is covered at Chinese Indonesians. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 18:42, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- " Jo Eng Sek left the industry... Returning with..." Perhaps clarify his role in his return film? Producer?
- Yep, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 19:12, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- " Neither Lie A., Tijip... made another film" perhaps " acted" would be a better verb, as they all seem to be actors?
- Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 19:12, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Si Ronda, Si Pitoeng need release years.--Dwaipayan (talk) 19:07, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Done. Pitoeng was given earlier. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 19:12, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Can we have a English name or translation of the name for the film?--Dwaipayan (talk) 23:55, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- It's the same. "Tjonat" is a name (so you can't translate that) and Si is an article used to indicate a person. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:57, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, ok.
- It's the same. "Tjonat" is a name (so you can't translate that) and Si is an article used to indicate a person. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:57, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
- That explanatory note on Chinese and native people is excellent. Thanks for it.
- In my opinion, this article meets GA criteria.--Dwaipayan (talk) 00:07, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
PR
editJust a few comments I didn't manage to get in before the PR closed. I've made a few tweaks here and there: feel free to revert anything you don't like.
Lead
- "He is captured after kidnapping an ethnic Chinese woman, defeated by her fiancé." A bit clumsy - could do with a re-working
- Tried. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:40, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
Plot
- Tjonat stops supporting his wife and returning home" Ditto
- Tried. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:40, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
Production
- Any chance of a wl or footnote to explain what a "lenong" performance is?
- Traditional theatre. Will redlink. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:40, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
- Ditto for "peranakan"?
- Linked in plot. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:40, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
Images
- Any chance of another images? this one? Or one with both - something with two Wongs would make it right.... (Sorry, couldn't resist the pun!)
- Three Wongs to make it right, actually, but I haven't found an early enough publication date for that image. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:40, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 19:28, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
Name of the film
editI enjoy these Indonesian film articles as they are almost completely outside my scope of knowledge. But this one really frustrated me. Having reached para two I got that Tjonat is the central character's name, but never came to what the title meant. So I tried the article Tjerita Si Tjonat, which has a useful translation "The Story of Si Tjonat", so "Si" cannot mean "of", leaving my best guess as at least the loose equivalent of "Mr". But now, on this page, I find it's bit different. Also, there is no relevant explanation at Si. As this is en.wiki shouldn't that explanation be in a footnote from the film title in the Lead? Davidships (talk) 17:04, 13 July 2020 (UTC)