Talk:Spaghetti Western

Zapata Western and Duck, You Sucker

Any reason why Duck, You Sucker isn't listed as a Zapata Western? Seems like it is a key example by the major spaghetti western filmmaker. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.193.55.52 (talk) 20:33, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

I agree its a criticism of the political zapata genre, while also being a trademark example of one. 71.217.96.148 (talk) 08:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Untitled

Can the second image be moved so the layout isn't so confused around the contents? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popageorgio (talk • contribs) 05:48, 17 November 2005

---

Citation needed on assertion that cinematography is partially intentional and partially cultural

I don't agree that citation is needed for that. Almost anything can be party attributed to almost anything else (even if 1 part in 100 billion, yes 100 billion). And, these two parts are certainly not that unlikely. I vote to remove the 'citation needed' (but is this democracy? can we do that?). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.22.58.46 (talk) 06:47, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

This line is confusing? What does it mean?

800 balas (2002) is set among former actors and stuntmen in Almería.

Is Almería a real place? Also, if it is a movie about stuntmen, it arguably cannot take place in the Old West, ergo not a Western? 81.232.72.53 12:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Almería is in Spain. 800 Balas has an article. --jh51681 19:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Themes

I'm not all into the literary criticism stuff, but doesn't this page deserve an analysis of themes common to the genre? Help me out here, folks, I'm not an avid fan, just a dilettante. -altjira 07:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Language

are these filmed in italian or english? thanks, 71.127.147.156 08:27, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Neither. The actors and actresses often spoke their own languages (be it Italian, English, German, Spanish etc.) during filming, as no sound was recorded. Dubbed Italian and English audiotracks were created later. Prolog 20:27, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Not Sure About This

There's a second season Backyardigans epsiode that is a takeoff of the genere

LadySatine 21:49, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I think these are pretty common, so they don't really need to be mentioned in the article. Prolog 05:18, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

List of Films

I propose we delete the list of films on this page, as there is a link to the main page right above it? Goldencrisp87 02:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

All the notable films should be mentioned in the text above the section, but until that happens, keeping a short list of films makes sense to me. Prolog 07:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Possible Content

I was reading about the actor Gordon Scott, who recently died and the article mentioned that he had been in some spaghetti westerns. I looked it up on IMDB and there are at least two movies that appear to fit. One of them, Buffalo Bill, directed by Mario Costa (under a pseudonym), doesn't appear to be listed on the listed anywhere. Dfmclean 14:50, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

"why"s

I'd really love to know where the whole genre of spaghetti westerns came from; why were Italian directors, and Italian directors in particular, making so many movies set in the Old West, why did they stop, and what replaced them? I hope somebody with more knowledge of the subject than I have can add such information to the article. Luvcraft 02:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

There were laws banning the depiction of violence in Italian films set in Italy, due to the intense violence persistent in Italy from the end of WW2 to the 1980s (see: Years of Lead (Italy). Some parts of Italy were compared to the wild west, which may have led to increased interest. Many italo-westerns were seen as allegories of contemporary Italy. --NEMT 21:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, and one other reason was, that in Germay the so called Karl May movies, playing in the west and being co-produced by Jugoslavian companies, were an enormous success in Europe (and especially their music by Martin Böttcher beginning in 1962 with The Treasure of Silver Lake) and the Italian producers/directors just saw a new field of profit and invented something of their own. Italo-Western-star Terence Hill began his career in German Karl-May-movies. --Wittkowsky (talk) 10:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

According to a documentary I saw, in the 1960s the big productions of Cinecittà were not sustainable. As Wittkowsky says, the Germans had been doing European Westerns. By that time, Germans already had TVs, but Italians could not afford them, so there was a demand for movies. --Error (talk) 01:47, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Specifically, it was southern Italy which was slow to get television and thus had a tremendous demand for movies into the 70s. Mikel Koven in La Dolce Morte talks in some depth about this phenomenon and how it nurtured several genres of movies, among them the spaghetti western. Quite a fascinating look at the class issues inherent between the north and the south at that time and how it affected the arts being created for each one. Monkey Bounce (talk) 05:42, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Spagettivästern

The article claims:

"Spaghetti Western, in Europe more often called Italo-Western [...]"

In Sweden we use spagettivästern, i.e., Spaghetti Western. I have never heard of any "italiensk västern" (i.e., 'Italo-Western'). A search on Google reveals:

"spag(h)ettivästern" - 2810 hits

"italiensk västern" - 57 hits

Instead of västern one can also use western in Swedish, colloquially. That'd give about the same ratio. // Jens Persson (90.231.244.42 (talk) 23:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC))

In German, it's most common – not "Italian Western", but "Italo Western". So, not the country, the style makes it. Greetings, Inspector.Godot (talk) 16:26, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, the UK is in Europe, and we call them Spaghetti Westerns. If no-one onjects, I'm going to change it to "Spaghetti Western, known in some countries of mainland Europe as the Italo-Western". Pollythewasp (talk) 09:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:DannyPose.jpg

The image File:DannyPose.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --01:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Poster shown

You know that CINQUE FIGLI DI CANE is a crime film, not a Western at all? ....--Si! SWamP (talk) 13:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

• Yeah. Cinque figli di cane is a gangster movie. Definitely not a western. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.147.179.74 (talk) 09:59, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Formatting in List section?

So I'm looking at the formatting of the notable films, actors, and directors and it looks like a mess. For some reason, things are getting cut off and the list seems to go on every other column with the in-between columns filling in afterwards. I don't really understand how to fix it, but it does leave me wondering why there's such a weird version of the list. Can't it just work as a regular list like many other articles? Stever Augustus (talk) 03:37, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I did it so the names would appear on one page of the computer screen and no scrolling needed. Articles that are too long often get split to their own page. It originally had no lettering. Look back in the history to how it was. The columns can be edited out by removing the MultiCol, ColBreak,EndMulitCol and the fancy brackets {} that will still leave the letteringREVUpminster (talk) 06:03, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Should be moved

to Spaghetti western (no caps) - Rothorpe (talk) 16:36, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Il terrore dell'Oklahoma, the first spaghetti western ever produced

I made a correction: the first spaghetti western ever made is not "Savage guns" (1961) but "Il terrore dell'Oklahoma" (1961), directed by Mario Amendola. I am aware this black and white film is almost completely unkown out of Italy, nonetheless it deserves the title of first Spaghetti western. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.34.171.246 (talk) 01:47, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Curry Western Redirect

Curry Western redirects to Spaghetti western. This is inappropriate. "Spaghetti Western" refers to movies about the American West made by Italian directors, whether they be in English or Italian. I was under the impression that Spaghetti Westerns do not have seperate genre conventions from traditional Hollywood Westerns - in fact, I'm pretty sure there's overlap between the two categories (The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly is considered one of the best Hollywood Westerns of all time, and it has an Italian director). "Curry Western" refers specifically to the phenomenon of Bollywood movies, with all the Filmi baggage that goes with that (song and dance numbers, Indian settings, gratuitous violence, prudishness, etc.), being made in a style reminiscent of or paying homage to American Hollywood Westerns but much more syncratic. Sholay is the premier example. It is a distinct phenomenon and should have its own article. Does anyone object to the redirect being removed? Quodfui (talk) 08:58, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Since when is The Good, The Bad and the Ugly a Hollywood western? Am I missing something here?22:15, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Spaghetti Western

This should be written "Spaghetti Western." --Zbrnajsem (talk) 15:43, 30 October 2011 (UTC) I like the term "Italian" or "European Western" far more, in titling these films. Often panned by critics, they were also not well understood by them, and frankly, I think we generally still lack a good understanding of them. (John G. Lewis (talk) 15:42, 24 June 2013 (UTC))

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved per request. Favonian (talk) 19:02, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

---

Spaghetti western → Spaghetti Western –

The article has previously been redirected from Spaghetti Western to Spaghetti western, with the claim that it is not a proper name and so "Western" should not be capitalised. Regardless of whether this is true or not, and I suspect it's not, consistency across Wikipedia is important in terms of popular usage of certain terms. Almost all other Western (genre) articles, categories, etc, utilise a capital "W", in titles, and in the body of the articles themselves (including the article in question). Having this one act differently seems inappropriate and confusing. Requesting that these be swapped around, with the "Western" version being the most recognised primary title, and lower-case "western" redirected to it, instead. — Ma®©usBritish^[chat] 17:06, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Evidence of wide-spread capitalised usage:

• List of Western computer and video games
• Science fiction Western (redirected from Science fiction western)
• Space Western
• Dime Western
• Weird Western
• Acid Western
• Revisionist Western
• List of Western fiction authors
• Films based on Western novels
• List of Spaghetti Western films
• List of TV Westerns
• TV Western (redirects but searchable)
• B-Westerns (redirects but searchable)
• List of Western films
• List of Western films before 1920
• List of Western films of the 1920s
• List of Western films of the 1930s
• List of Western films of the 1940s
• List of Western films 1950–1954
• List of Western films 1955–1959
• List of Western films of the 1960s
• List of Western films of the 1970s
• List of Western films of the 1980s
• List of Western films of the 1990s
• List of Western films of the 2000s
• List of Western films of the 2010s

• Support per MOS:CAPS#Compass points. West, referring to the Western United States, is capitalized (see the first sentence of that article) just as South is, and so is the adjectival form when it's "nouned" to refer to the genre, as is exemplified throughout Western (genre). Deor (talk) 16:08, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

What does mode mean

"Especially the mode of the pathetic received a big boost with Sergio Corbucci's very influential Django. However in the following years the mode of cunning and irony became more prominent" What does mode mean in this sentence? Nitpyck (talk) 04:00, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Seems a bit obscure. I rm it. Wording could probably stand some more improvement. Thanks for pointing that out. Student7 (talk) 23:22, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Alfonso Sancha is not an Italian journalist, but Alfonso Sánchez was a Spanish one

In the third headline of the first paragraph the article says: "According to actor Aldo Sambrell, the phrase 'Spaghetti Western' was coined by Italian journalist Alfonso Sancha.[1]" 1) Alfonso Sancha is not an Italian Journalist 2) indeed a person with such a name does not exist either 3) the term spaghetti western originated in the United States and not in Italy. Please delete such a false and misleading statement because it does not reflect reality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.235.128.185 (talk) 10:21, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree. As far as I know, "Sancha" is neither Italian nor Spanish surname. I tend to think of some error in Sambrell's interview. For the phrase, I don't know whether it really came from the United States. It somehow matches typical Italian self-irony, but sounds syntactically English. However, no trace of an "Alfonso Sancha" (SAHN-kah? SAHN-chah?). --Erinaceus (talk) 16:49, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Maybe everyone is copying each other, but "Italian journalist" is all I can find. People in Europe move around, too, I suppose. Student7 (talk) 01:05, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Alfonso Sánchez (1911-1981, see https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonso_S%C3%A1nchez_Mart%C3%ADnez ) was a very well known Spanish journalist and film critic. He was indeed the coiner of the spaghetti-western name. I change in accordance the sentence in the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.38.108.186 (talk • contribs) 13:10, 23 November 2015

Was this article mostly copied from another source?

This article looks like it was mostly lifted verbatim from some academic source. If so, citations are needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.147.246.117 (talk) 17:25, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

While it is weakly sourced, we cannot guess whether it was copied or not. If you have a citation from which it was copied, please let us know. Or if you would like to tag various comments, forcing a citation, that could be useful as well. Student7 (talk) 20:52, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree that this article seems to be copied from another source. Much of the vernacular appears to be of an academic nature, and frankly a bit too formal at times. The content also seems to be poorly organized which is a potential sign of plagiarism from another source. I will attempt to clean up this article to the best of my abilities. Leiwang7 (talk) 18:58, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

All wikepedia is copied from another source. Any original thought is deemed original research Wikipedia:No original research. That's why the original is rehashed. Copypasting is frowned upon. REVUpminster (talk) 20:24, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Media hype

I removed the WP:POV (subjective) language "the very successful" from a caption. It was reverted with the comment that the text of the article used the subjective, WP:POV language "remarkable." This is an encyclopedia, not Imdb, or a promo for Spaghetti Westerns. Please use objective language. See WP:MOS for help. We don't copy media examples which are filled with subjective adjectives. We report facts here. The movie genre was a financial success. That is an objective fact. It doesn't need to be "polished" further by us. Student7 (talk) 15:26, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Jeez... the utterly trivial stuff that some editors will fight over. -- If "For a Few Dollars More" and "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" are both regarded as "very successful" [1], then I fail to see how the same accolade cannot be applied to "A Fistful of Dollars" given its box/production cost ratio is 64 (versus 25 for Few More and 21 for GBU) and its total box gross is not appreciably less than either. Its profitability ratio was 50% higher than "Goldfinger" (the highest-grossing film of 1964 and widely considered the most acclaimed film of the entire James Bond franchise).

Not only was Fistful "very successful" by any metric aside from total gross, it's one of the most successful films in the history of cinema. No wonder there were hundreds of copycat films.

In summation, "very" is an objectively useful adjective whose brevity is suitable for an image caption. A citation is not needed in the caption when the statement is supported elsewhere in the article (following the general rule for keeping excessive citation out of the lede).--Froglich (talk) 12:29, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Spaghetti Western Music?

I came here looking for an explanation of Spaghetti Western, the genre of music, which seems similar to other genres like surf rock. There should be a page on Wikipedia for that. Plz create one. Thanks.73.58.159.242 (talk) 12:53, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Interesting that I wasn't banned for this request for information, or any of the other countless requests I've made on talk pages over the years. It's almost as if that censorships on the Sexual Frustration page was because sexual predators felt threatened. Enjoying your Streisand effect, rapists?107.77.234.68 (talk) 16:37, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Eastwood unknown?

The article refers to Clint Eastwood as "previously unknown" before starring role in "A Fistful of Dollars." Ten years before Fistful came out in 1964, Eastwood had his first credited role in a film. For the five years ending that year, he played Rowdy Yates on "Rawhide." I hardly think "previously unknown" is accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.117.245.40 (talk) 18:26, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of Western subgenres which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:34, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Lowercase "spaghetti" per MOS:GENRECAPS and other subgenres

Recent related discussions have pointed out the inconsistency of capitalizing "Spaghetti" when compared to both our own MOS:GENRECAPS as well as how we handle other Westerns subgenres. Spaghetti is not a proper noun and per GENRECAPS should not be capitalized. This is similar to "contemporary Western", "revisionist Western", "science fiction Western", and others. The only time a subgenre would be capitalized would be if the name was a proper noun, such as Australian Western (but not "meat pie Western") or Florida Western (but not "cracker Western"). I have adjusted this article per the MOS. There is also a move discussion in progress to move the related page List of Spaghetti Western films to List of spaghetti Westerns. ButlerBlog (talk) 16:08, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Sexuality subsection is too narrow

The section should cover different themes of sexuality typical of, or absent from, the genre, not just say "some of the movies have homosexual relationships". This does nothing to describe the genre at all. JSory (talk) 04:54, 24 August 2024 (UTC)