Talk:Swaminarayan Temple, Ahmedabad

Suggestions

• References: Doubt if the foll qualify as WP:RS
  • http://www.ahmedabad.org.uk/religious-places/swaminarayan-temple.html
  • http://www.swaminarayanwales.org.uk/Mandirs/mandirdetails.asp?mandircode=18 (dead)
• Swami-Narayan Devanagari is wrong.
• Explain in short what is NarNarayan Dev Gadi, in the lead sentence
• Usually there should be only 1 primary deity, the one who housed under the central shikhara is probably the one.
• "About this Mandir" title is too vague, the whole article is "About this Mandir"
• Suggested basic layout:
  • History
  • Architecture - add sub sections
  • Deities
• "was gifted by the British Imperial Government in India." to whom?
• "Swaminarayan to Ananandanand Swami." who is the latter?
• "The installation ceremony of the murti (images) in the temple was celebrated in the presence of thousands of pilgrims representing many parts of India." when?
• Put "Besides the gods in the main temple,........" section in some architecture section.
• Put "Relations with the British Government" section in some "History" section as a sub ssection

--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 14:05, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

In reply,

• http://www.ahmedabad.org.uk/religious-places/swaminarayan-temple.html is an independent website - why would this not be a RS.
  • Ref 4 covers the same as ref 3 (http://www.swaminarayanwales.org.uk/Mandirs/mandirdetails.asp?mandircode=18) - so it can be safely removed.
• Replaced Devanagari - take a look
• done
• can u pl. expand on how u suggest the layout to be?
• Swaminarayan, added
• a paramhansa of the sampraday, added
• trying to find the number. In 1822 - day the temple was inaugurated.

Thanks, Around The Globe^{सत्यमेव जयते} 14:20, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

• SEE Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-06-26/Dispatches: "Responding to queries about reliable sources" and provide sources to prove above is RS.
• "Swaminarayan Mandir, Ahmedabad" may have an elaborate formal Sanskrit/Hindi/Gujarati name like most Hindu temples like "Shri Vitthala-Rukmini Mandir" of Vithoba temple, Pandharpur. Please include if it has one
• Akshardham (Delhi) is a good example to follow in terms of layout.
• My suggestion:
  • History: Merge Relations with the British Government in History, according to chronology : note "The land for construction of this first shrine of Swaminarayan Sampraday, was gifted by the British Imperial Government in India to Swaminarayan" is repeated
  • Architecture: ref for layout [1], include details about the deity images in resp. section
    • NarNarayan Dev Temple
    • Akshar Bhuvan
    • Haveli
    • Rang Mahal
    • Baio-ni Haveli etc.
  • "Secular Area" can be merged in a section about the temple's earthquake relief work
  • Adminstration: Any trust? Acharya etc.

--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 14:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

• Name changed to official name: Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, Ahmedabad - thts the full name.
• Changed the layout
• Guess u meant heritage walk - done tht.
• Trust is for the Narnarayan Dev Gadi - Acharya is the trustee.

Do you have further suggestions? Around The Globe^{सत्यमेव जयते} 22:53, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 31 March 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus for any particular title, but support for a move is evident; moving to Swaminarayan Temple, Ahmedabad per other articles in its category, with no bias against a further request at any time, including to the more specific title suggested by In ictu oculi. Dekimasuよ! 10:35, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

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Kalupur Swaminarayan Mandir → Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Kalupur Ahmedabad – The name has been incorrect which does not match the website. 58.178.214.158 (talk) 04:34, 31 March 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. Dekimasuよ! 10:05, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose We don't use honorific Shri on en.wp, no need for Ahmedabad either is there? Instead move to Swaminarayan Temple, Kalapur per English books, Insight Gujarat, Lonely Planet India. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:25, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 26 April 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. The argument in support is that the official name is something different, but they are not addressing what the WP:COMMONNAME is in English. Evidence provided by Cuchullain indicates that the current title is the common name. Also, as noted below, this does not particularly affect the names of temples etc. with Shree in the name - where those are titled that way through proper noun, it's fine to include Shree, and WP:HONORIFIC doesn't apply to this article or other buildings with a proper name.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:36, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

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Swaminarayan Temple, Ahmedabad → Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Kalupur – The organisation name is mispelt wrongly. If you visit our website this is the correct name, all our social media accounts have same name. The organisation was named as Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Kalupur. On Wikipedia other religious temple use Shree and Mandir then why cant this organisation use. Check on google maps for correct name https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Shree+Swaminarayan+Mandir+Kalupur/@23.0296679,72.5894513,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x395e8437baaaaaab:0x6a54d2d87e043de4!8m2!3d23.029663!4d72.59164. Do not sign this. Nndkalupurmandir (talk) 07:03, 26 April 2018 (UTC) --Relisted.  Paine Ellsworth  ^put'r there  10:01, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Relist note: members of WikiProjects India and Hinduism have been notified of this request.  Paine Ellsworth  ^put'r there  10:13, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Setting "Mandir" aside, it is true that there are a large number of articles on temples that use "Shree." Though its use is rare overall, I agree with the proposer that this should be dealt with in a standardized way. It is also clear that Shree is an honorific, and that honorifics are deprecated in titles. I have done the best I could making a list of the other articles that use variations of Shree; if there is agreement that "Shree" should not be used for temples, these are most of the articles that might be affected:

Has there been a specific discussion somewhere on the use of Shree in relation to temples? Is there a place to start one, or should this be made some form of a multimove request? I think a multimove request of this scale might not go very well. Dekimasuよ! 15:01, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Note also Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic)#Titles and honorifics: "In keeping with the neutral nature of Wikipedia and wider policies, honorifics should generally not be included with names, unless they are part of an external quotation. It is common in devotional texts to precede the name of deities (gods), and sometimes revered individuals with the English term 'lord', the Sanskrit 'sri' or other appellations. These should be omitted in Wikipedia articles and the simple name should be used; e.g. 'Krishna', not 'Sri Krishna', 'Lord Krishna' or other forms." This appears to be aimed more towards people/deities than temples, however. Dekimasuよ! 16:12, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Honorifics are fine in proper names. We wouldn't call it Peter's Basilica or Petersburg. The question is whether this proposed name is the common one.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:08, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

• Comment::Well a paralell would be how religious buildings in the Christian world often have 'Saint' as part of the article title. E.g St Paul's Cathedral. I think it's safe to use 'Shree' if that is part of the WP:COMMONNAME. Cesdeva (talk) 21:52, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

You'd probably be best served by having a RfC on policy, proposing usage of 'Shree' where it is prevalent in the common-name. Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/India-related articles would be a good venue; just post a link on the India Noticeboard so people are aware. Cesdeva (talk) 09:39, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose A primary source (the organisation's website) isn't sufficient for establishing common-name. Every RS reference that I managed to access (before i fainted from linkrot exposure) did not use 'Shree'. Cesdeva (talk) 19:59, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support follow the name as set by organization running the place. Prodigyhk (talk) 07:24, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

• See WP:OFFICIAL. Cesdeva (talk) 15:28, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose the idea that the article title is set by the organization as opposed to Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Dekimasuよ! 22:58, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

• Support I thinj we should support them to use there organisation name, as the organisation name cant be changed but the article name can change and it should match with the organisation name and website name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.81.150.76 (talk) 04:09, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

  ^Sock Cesdeva ^(talk) 12:28, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. I see no evidence that the proposed title is in common use in English - no Google News hits, no relevant Google Books hits, despite there being many references to the temple itself.[2] The present title is at least a plausible descriptive title.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:08, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.