Talk:Syria/Archive 5

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Archive 5

Ethnic / Religious Map is Out of Date and Probably Wrong From the Start

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria#/media/File:Syria_Ethno-religious_composition..jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.1.100.174 (talk) 00:12, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

U.K. FOREIGN SECRETARY: RUSSIA'S INTERVENTION IN SYRIA IS STRENGTHENING ISIS

British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond has accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of inadvertently supporting the Islamic State militant group (ISIS) in Syria, Reuters reported.

Russia has been conducting air strikes in Syria since September 2015 and said it targets a range of militant groups in the country, not just ISIS. The Russian defense ministry said on Monday that its aircraft had carried out 468 missions in the previous week, hitting 1,354 “terrorists’ infrastructural facilities” in Syria.RUSSIA'S INTERVENTION IN SYRIA IS STRENGTHENING ISIS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.162.146.3 (talk) 21:09, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Minor Grammar Edit

"Pompey the Great of the Roman Empire, who captured Antioch in 64 BC, turning Syria into a Roman province," under Classic Antiquity, is not a sentence.

Intro

hi sydney  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.71.219.212 (talk) 15:44, 15 September 2015 (UTC) 

In the last sentence of the first paragraph Sunni Arabs should be hyperlinked.

The previous link in the paragraph is for "islam is Syria" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.244.14.168 (talk) 20:21, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Syrian Arab Republic

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 05:58, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

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As Syria disintegrates, there is a loosing connection between "Syria" and "Syrian Arab Republic". Evidently Baathist Syrian government controls just about 30% of the former area of Syria those days. Overall, when we talk about Syria today we mean geographic concept of Syria and not always pointing to the Syrian Arab Republic. Another issue is that there is an alternative rebel government claiming to be legitimate (Syrian Opposition), and even another quasi-state (ISIS) controlling large parts of it and in a way also referring to itself as Syria (al-Sham). The obvious solution is to move Syria article to Syrian Arab Republic and make Syria a geographic article to prevent confusion with the various entities, now claiming to be "Syria". Thoughts?GreyShark (dibra) 22:33, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

• Syria → Syrian Arab Republic

– With the Syrian Civil War closing to 4 years since eruption, we have a fractured country, controlled about 30% by Syrian Arab Republic (40% if including self-proclaimed autonomous Syrian Kurdistan), some 40% controlled by Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Syria) and 20% fractured between rebel groups, among which Syrian National Council is claiming the role of government in exile of an alternative Syrian state. As a consequence, the concept Syria is largely referring today to the geographic Syria and not specifically Syrian Arab Republic, which is controlling only a margin of former territory. Propose to rename Syria to Syrian Arab Republic, while making Syria a redirect to Syria (region) GreyShark (dibra) 19:11, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

• I fixed this proposal to multi-move proposal for you. I hope that's fine unless you want to revert. As for the last sentence of your paragraph, how about changing "Syria (region)" to Syria instead? --George Ho (talk) 19:56, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but i revert you. If you like we can later propose to move "Syria (region)" to Syria, but in the meanwhile, that is a separate issue.GreyShark (dibra) 20:45, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

• • Strong Oppose : Syria is still recognized in its current borders ! it doesnt matter if the central authority control 10% of the country, those areas that have ISIS and FSA are not recognized legally !

2- this article speak about the whole area of Syria, are you gonna delete the information's and restrict them just the the area's that's under the control of the Regime ! or are you gonna create new articles for FSA areas ?

3- We dont end the existence of a state if it got in a civil war.. its not up to Wikipedia to decide, people know the country by the name Syria and they will look for Syria not the Syrian Arab republic which is the government, there are articles about the Syrian government

4-There are many area of conflict in the world and we cant change the names of the countries every time a rebel took a piece of land, Syria is Syria and the ones claiming they are Syria are just making claims ! if someone claimed France tomorrow we dont change the Article name. If we changed this to the Syria Arab Republic and indicated that it is about the 30% of the government lands, would that be recognized internationally ? did the international community declared that it now separate Syria from the Syrian Arab republic ? Somalia is more disintegrated ! but its not up to Editors to create a new meaning or change the name of the article to refer to the 20% that the Somali government control

5- Lastly : Syria is Syria and this article give the information's about the whole of It, you can create an article about the Syria Arab republic because we are not gonna delete the information's about Idleb province, Dar'aa province and the east if this article is going to be restricted for the Syria Arab republic--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 06:57, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. As long as the Syrian Civil War remains ongoing, the entire region is in a state of flux, including its borders and which sides have control of which territory. Making page moves based on WP:RECENTISM and how the war is currently progressing is not the way to go about it. Furthermore, the history and boundaries described in Syria (region) do not exactly match that of the modern country, so making such a page move would only add to confusion. The war makes everything unstable (not to mention that these articles are currently under general sanctions), so it is best to hold off title changes. Zzyzx11 (talk) 08:26, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose as per WP:UCRN, I would imagine that the only reason that the article Syria (region) got separated was for file management reasons. The topic belongs to Syria. Gregkaye ✍♪ 09:27, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Syria is still the recognised name of the country and the country is still what most people think of when they hear the name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:07, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - Syria is the most common name for the country, not "Syrian Arab Republic". For example, people refer to "Germany" not "Federal Republic of Germany". I strongly oppose this move. --CookieMonster755 (talk) 02:44, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Updating

The Syria page is in serious need of updating to reflect recent events- the current page sanctions seem to be inhibiting this.

Absolutely. This page feels as though it has been censored - not in the spirit of Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vburmester (talk • contribs) 16:35, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Then again, when it comes to this War, it does seem that Wikipedia is not willing to act in the spirit of Wikipedia. 79.71.254.90 (talk) 22:24, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Syrian Turks

Syrian Turkmens political Movements Syrian Turkmen flee to Lebanon's Turkish village [1] , Syrian Turkmens Brigades , Syrian Turks Flag [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.140.219.29 (talk) 08:59, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Al-Qaeda in Syria targets Turkmen minority [3]

The Turkmen of Syria: exposed early to assimilation and deportation policies [4]

SYRIAN TURKMENS: POLITICAL MOVEMENTS AND MILITARY STRUCTURE [5] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.179.187.3 (talk) 14:29, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Syrian ciwil War Russian aerial bombardment, the Syrian army and Hezbollah killing Turkmen Jab-al Turkman — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.5.89.108 (talk) 17:46, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Turkmen regions Bayırbucak,Turkmen mountain,Aleppo Governorate Talaf Turkmen descent,Aqrap Turkmen 18 Mojahedin of [Russian Federation]. If the Turk's or Arab's ? Mil li jard (talk) 13:29, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Requested move for page 'Syrian Kurdistan' to 'Rojava', 18 January 2015

Hi!

I'm inviting editors to participate in the discussion to move the article 'Syrian Kurdistan' to 'Rojava'. My rationale is: This article is about a region governed by the PYD, which calls the area Rojava. Foreign press also uses this term, for example [6] (BBC) [7] (Guardian) [8] (Independent) [9] (VICE). Other examples on Wikipedia such as Kosovo (not South Serbia), Catalonia (not Catalonian Spain) or Scotland (not Scottish United Kingdom) indicate this article should be called Rojava as per convention. Thanks Genjix (talk) 19:01, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2015

The Greek historian Posidonius (150 BC) says,, "the people we (Greeks) call Syrians, were called by the Syrians self Arameans....for the people in Syria are the Arameans". This is repeated by Strabo (Greek historian, Born ca.63 BC), the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (First century AD) and others who all have testified to the fact that the people, whom the Greeks called syrians, called itself Arameans

I think it is not true that the name Syria is from the word Assyrian. syrioi is from the name of the king Cyrus. We are confused with the words syria-assyria-syriac, becouse they sound similar in latin and greek, but not in semitic languages: soria-ashour-siriani Becouse of that i think it must be changed. Caliph Ibrahim (talk) 13:42, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Are there reliable sources that agree with you? --Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:47, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes of course that are Those historians called Posidonius, Strabo, Flavius Josephus — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caliph Ibrahim (talk • contribs) 20:30, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Current map of Syria

I assume the map of the current conflict in Syria is updated as things occur. Wouldn't it make sense to do what ISIL does and date the latest revision? When I visit ISIL, I can immediately see that there's been no major changes in the situation in six days. Timothyjosephwood (talk) 10:51, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

the theme State at fault

Please fill out the websites <Syria> with the theme State 

fault Arab Jamahiriya Sirya.

The  Lender's have, probably,
a interest - 

get back the its funds and when? Sacsaveclepain (talk) 15:03, 23 July 2015 (UTC) Chill out. Creditors are big enough and the country

Syria are rich enough. 

Al Assad are Islamists or Aufstandische

way or repay all monies. 

For each patron or rocket purchased on credit. Cents vingt trois (talk) 14:40, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

United Nations

Peacekeepers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leadermaster (talk • contribs) 04:17, 30 August 2015 (UTC) ≈≈≈≈MurrayJohn Craig Geddes

Population

The population infobox in the demographics section says 'Historical populations (in thousands)', when I'm pretty sure Syria's population is in the millions. Fix it please, thanks --68.118.202.114 (talk) 15:07, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

This heading is still wrong. The (in thousands) text needs to be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.101.221.168 (talk) 05:50, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Use of the villifying term 'regime'

Could we please be fair-minded enough to substitute the villifying word regime (with it's tyrannous connotations) for government? This is after all an encyclopaedia. Beingsshepherd (talk) 02:21, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

How much rubles has Putin funneled to your bank account? They are losing value soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.202.170 (talk) 05:15, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

So, when it comes to Syria, it would seem that Wikipedia are not fair-minded enough to substitute the villifying word regime for government. But it will allow uncalled insults to be made against Russia. Not that there is any pro-US regime agenda here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.71.254.90 (talk) 22:16, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Indeed it is worrying the issue you raise. It seems this is not an encyclopaedia anymore and is run by fanatics from both sides Green beret1972 (talk) 15:10, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 19 September 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 00:43, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

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(non-admin closure)

• Syria → Syrian Arab Republic
• Syria (disambiguation) → Syria

– No WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The name "Syria" can also refer to the Syrian region, Assyria, Roman Syria and Syria-Palaestina. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 21:44, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose as per WP:UCRN. Syria is the most common name for the country, not "Syrian Arab Republic". For example, people refer to "Germany" not "Federal Republic of Germany".

Note, this has already been suggested some months ago Talk:Syria#Syrian_Arab_Republic. The consensus was no move.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:50, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose BMK (talk) 23:48, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The quest to call Syria a 'failed' state

There are claims that due to split of Syria (Ba'ath, Sunni Opposition, Kurdish autonomy, Jihadist forces) and invasion (ISIL) - Syria can no longer be considered a nation-state, but rather a failed state - like Yemen, Libya and Iraq. There are multiple sources to support this [10], [11], [12], [13]. I suggest to add this into leading section.GreyShark (dibra) 20:18, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

In the article of Somalia, it is mentioned that it WAS a failed state until the establishment of a government. Lybia isnt a failed state nor Yemen.. But you only care about Syria so whatever. States goes into Civil wars and thats normal.

This "source" [14] is qouting the fears of Alakhdar al-Ibrahimi that Syria is going to fail not that its actually a failed state.

Richard W. Rahn does not have the authority to declare a state is failed !!

This [15] have the address "failed states" but doesnt claim Syria as a failed and doesnt have the authority to do

This [16] doesnt claim Syria as a failed state. It is mentioning that things are going bad and worsening.

Until the fall of the Syrian regime and the elimination of the centralized Syrian army then you cant say that Syria is a failed state. Most major cities are in the hands of the government and that government is still paying wages and sending delegations to the UN as a sovereign state.

Please wait, maybe someday you will see Syria extinct but not today. Its like a quest to end Syria's existence on Wikipedia like you tried once here Talk:Syria#Syrian Arab Republic.

I also need to mention this (which is the main argument): from the article Failed state :

• Loss of control of its territory, or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein
• Erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions
• Inability to provide public services
• Inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community

three and a half of the former situations arent applicable to Syria.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 06:41, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually 3.5 of the above does apply to Baathist Syrian Arab Republic - it lost control of most of the territory, its authority is eroded (the Arab League for instance allowed Syrian Opposition to take its seat), the cannot provide public services to more than half Syrian citizens and it is no longer a full member of the international community, with alternatives gaining a significant power. Perhaps an RFC is required here.GreyShark (dibra) 14:19, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

You dont need an rfc,This isnt a democracy.. you cant declare a failed state and its not up to your "judgment".. your "sources" that you really looked hard to find with weird determenation arent authoritive to declare a failed state... anyway, most of syria is under the control of the republic unless you count the desert... the state is regaining lands and you are mistaken.. salaries are still being paid..arab league is a joke.. even unicef have more authority and syria is a full part of the international community. maybe your dream of the collapse of syria might happen someday.. but you need to wait.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:58, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Turkmen Mountain War

Turkey downs Russian warplane near Syria border, Moscow denies air space violation [17]

Turkmen Mountain War Gunshots are being also heard from Yayladağı district.

It is stated that elders and children especially in Bayırbucak region where mostly the young Turkmens live, move beside to Turkish border but not to Turkey because they do not want to leave their homes. Sometimes the Syrian regime sometimes the Turkmen side maintains control over coastal Bucak region. Turkmens had to retreat from a part of Bucak region due to airstrikes. Turkmen 2nd Coastal Division controls a 40km-region from Ğimem to Acısu Region [18]

Russia, Assad regime continue pounding Turkmen Mountain Russia aims to make Assad more powerful ahead of negotiations with opposition, Turkmen leader says

- Turkmen Mountain

The head of Turkmen Parliament in Syria, Abdurrahman Mustafa, says that various motivations lay behind Russia’s rising attacks against Turkmen Mountain.

Strategic importance of Bayirbucak

The Red Mountain, about five kilometers [just over three miles] from the Turkish border, has the strategic importance of being the highest peak in the region.[19] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.140.225.59 (talk) 14:14, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Russia shoots innocent civilians, Russian airstrikes hit children in Qur'an course in Syria Russian airstrikes hit a Qur'an course and a refugee camp; scores of people killed and injured Russian airstrikes hit children in Qur'an course in Syria

Russia and Assad Accused of Shelling Syrian Refugee Camp Near Turkish Border "The Russian airstrikes Turkmen Mountain — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.162.146.3 (talk) 21:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

...and we all believe Vice News. 79.71.254.90 (talk) 23:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Evidence highlighting the support of the Turkish military

Provided evidence of the support of the Turkish military forces (for artillery fire large caliber) and the purchase oil off the terrorists.)

^ https://russian.rt.com/article/145541 ^ http://lifenews.ru/news/182947 ^ http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1579521/video/

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Semi-protected edit request on 13 May 2016

Dumat al-Jandal has nothing to do with Dūmā, the former being in Saudi Arabia and the latter in Damascus suburbs. Please delete this whole paragraph (During Muhammad's era) as it's not related to Syria. Ghaylan de Damas (talk) 15:50, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 07:55, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Edit request 21/08/16

Hi there, I was struck by the map of the Syrian Civil War. The use of colours is not neutral.

Culturally speaking, red and green, when used together, symbolise "enemies" and "allies" respectively. The suggestion of the map is that the Syrian government are our "enemies" while the Syrian rebels are our "allies." This is not neutral.

I've changed the colour of the Syrian government from red to blue. Blue and green are rarely seen to be opposing colours in the same way, though they are clearly different enough from each other that one can tell one side of the conflict from the other. I'm linking the file here.

I'd be very grateful if someone could replace the picture that's currently there with this one, thereby restoring proper neutrality to the article.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.147.203.172 (talk) 23:43, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2016

(Sayyidah Zaynab) Religious zone in Damascus: Created by Iraqi immigrants since 2004, and Shia Muslims from Iran, Hezbollah, and Iraqi Shia.

Sancolor (talk) 17:36, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. KGirlTrucker81 ^{talk what I'm been doing} 19:30, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Important issue

The article is too old and does not talk about ISIS (the global terrorist organisation) عراف الجبل (talk) 06:05, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 September 2016

--- This paragraph ---

Syrian Civil War Main article: Syrian Civil War The ongoing Syrian Civil War was inspired by the Arab Spring revolutions. It began in 2011 as a chain of peaceful protests, followed by a crackdown by the Syrian Army.[89] In July 2011, army defectors declared the formation of the Free Syrian Army and began forming fighting units. The opposition is dominated by Sunni Muslims, whereas the leading government figures are Alawites.[90] According to various sources, including the United Nations, up to 100,000 people had been killed by June 2013,[91][92][93] including 11,000 children.[94] To escape the violence, over 2.1 million Syrian refugees have fled to neighboring countries of Jordan,[95] Iraq,[96] Lebanon, and Turkey.[97][98] An estimated 450,000 Syrian Christians have fled their homes.[99] As the civil war has dragged on, there have been worries that the country could become fragmented and cease to function as a state.[100]

--- should be changed with this ---

Syrian Civil War Main article: Syrian Civil War The ongoing Syrian Civil War was inspired by the Arab Spring revolutions. It began in 2011 as a chain of peaceful protests, followed by a crackdown by the Syrian Army.[89] In July 2011, army defectors declared the formation of the Free Syrian Army and began forming fighting units. The opposition is dominated by Sunni Muslims, whereas the leading government figures are Alawites.[90] According to various sources, including the United Nations, up to 100,000 people had been killed by June 2013,[91][92][93] including 11,000 children.[94] To escape the violence, almost 4.8 million [sources http://syrianrefugees.eu and United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) ] Syrian refugees have fled to neighboring countries of Jordan,[95] Iraq,[96] Lebanon, Turkey,[97] and Egypt[98] An estimated 450,000 Syrian Christians have fled their homes.[99] As the civil war has dragged on, there have been worries that the country could become fragmented and cease to function as a state.[100]

Perseo985 (talk) 14:57, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

• Done

Largest City

There's no evidence that the largest city of Syria is Damascus. Population of Aleppo can be still as much as 1.8 million, larger than the last recorded population of Damascus. Note the Damascus' metropolitan area(near 3 million) is not the same as the city itself. Please remove the "largest city" line in the infobox if there is still no reference. Esiymbro (talk) 17:51, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Forget that. Aleppo was the largest city pre-war, now Damascus is the larget city. What's wrong with it? 50% of Aleppo has been destroyed or damaged while severl IDP's moved from other regions in Syria to Damascus. Beshogur (talk) 22:47, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

What I mean is that it shouldn't be added before reliable sources are listed. How many IDP's are there, 20,000 or 2,000,000? Lack of sources is not a reason to use someone's personal estimation instead. Esiymbro (talk) 07:11, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Syrian presidential election, 2014

wow, big article about the Syrian presidential election, 2014 and not even a simple link here? --Hoffmansk 09:41, 14 December 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hoffmansk (talk • contribs)

OR regarding areas and places in norther Syria

All articles related to alleged "Rojava" are presenting a PYD opinion as facts. Human rights in Rojava and Shahba region are great examples for this. In addition, there is a lot of original research and blackwashing happening here. Due to the contributions of 2 or 3 POV editors, Wikipedia looks like a mirror of PYD and other Kurdish propaganda sites. You may be inbterested in the discussion here. Thanks, Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 02:21, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Well, as a matter of fact... Rojava does exist. It's not recognized, but it does exist. By the way, aren't you canvassing here? You're only allowed to invite other editors by doing it in a neutral way, which you're not doing here... You're declaring your opinion to be right, while the other side is "obviously wrong"... Maybe you're the biased one here.79.246.28.34 (talk) 11:09, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

IP, obviously you don't know any rules about Wikipedia. I am posting here so that interested people of any opinion can contribute. Who said I don't have my own opinion?? Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 02:45, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

User Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم, the IP knows more than you about this. I suggest you carefully read WP:Canvassing#Inappropriate_notification. 2003:77:4F18:FB58:41EF:5095:48AD:67CA (talk) 09:09, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Censorship warning!

You can't edit this page and obviously this stinks censorship. Also the Aramaic speaking minority has been forgotten and the language is not even on the language list. Someone need to do something about this bias page. PrivateInvestigator (talk) 14:25, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Be a bit patient and scroll down, or click Languages in the table of contents - Aramaic and its speakers is talked about in Syria#Languages. Where else would you expect to find it? Batternut (talk) 23:06, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2017

Lawes-wiki (talk) 06:45, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — IVORK _Discuss 06:56, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

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Western Aramaic-speakers

The article says "Western Aramaic-speakers living all over the country,[citation needed] particularly in major urban centers". Really? I think that western aramaic only is spoken in 3 villages. I wonder if there is a confusion between "Western Armaic-speakers" and "Western Syriac Rite" (both the practioners of Western Syriac Rite and of Eastern Syriac Rite are (or at least were) Eastern Aramaic-speakers--MiguelMadeira (talk) 12:06, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Photos of Syria on Wikimedia Commons

For years, Syria has been the scene of a bloody civil war resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of refugees, and the destruction of entire cities. The recent image donation by the Nationaal Museum van Wereldculturen (the National Museum of World Cultures) in the Netherlands shows another Syria. Many of these photos were taken in the 1980s and show scenes of daily life and images and cities not yet devastated by war. Other images show objects from the collection of the museum. Together, they form a valuable resource on Syria for the various Wikimedia projects. The upload consists of 352 photos in total and can be accessed here. It coincides with a photo exhibition in the NMvW on Aleppo. The upload was part of the project The Netherlands and the World, which aims to make accessible Dutch collections on non-European heritage. Kind regards, --AWossink (talk) 10:49, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Ba'athist Syrian Forces

Below the map of the military situation in Syria, it lists the different sides of the conflict. It refers to the Syrian Government as the Ba'athist Syrian Forces. This seems to violate neutrality, as it is removing the idea of it being a central government and associates it purely with Ba'athism. I could understand why Syrian Government might be a little biased, as it implies this is the legitimate government, so perhaps a name like Assad Government would work or something along those lines.--Yeti of Miak (talk) 14:30, 15 June 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yet of Miak (talk • contribs)

You are right. The government, whether its legitimate morally or not, is still the legal legitimate government acknowledged by the UN until now. So it cant be called the baathist government or Assad government, it's just the Syrian government until it loses its acknowledgment by the international society.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:17, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

There are four governments in Syrian territories today - each has some form of legitimacy. Similar to the Libyan situation.GreyShark (dibra) 08:20, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Second language, restore or remove

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Can we have a consensus to add Russian language for Syria despite not being in the constitution. One article on the Guardian read that one "Syrian ambassador in Moscow, Riyad Haddad, said Bashar al-Assad had also made Russian the second language in Syria, and had donated land near Damascus for a Russian school to be built." Supreme Dragon (talk) 13:13, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Strong oppose. Of course not! The term "second language" is commonly used about language education, usally about the first language taught beside the mother tongue; in this case perhaps meaning "first foreign language". Without a reliable source specifically mentioning Russian as "official" or "recognised minority" or something similar, there is no way Russian language can deserve a place in the infobox. Putting the Russian name in the heading of the infobox is pure original research. Please read WP:OR. --T*U (talk) 14:41, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
• Strong oppose agree with above comment. Seraphim System ^(talk) 02:40, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose, "one school doth not a second language make", as I'm sure no-one has ever said. Pincrete (talk) 18:52, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose (Summoned by bot) I don't see what this has to do with article titles d.g. L3X1 (distænt write) )evidence( 13:33, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose unless and until reliable sources state that Russian is spoken in the legislature, that road signs (except near the airport) are in Russian, that the official minutes of legislative proceedings are published in Russian, etc. —Anomalocaris (talk) 00:35, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Threaded discussion

• you would need a waaaay better source for such a contention. The Guardian is fine, sure. As a source for the Syrian ambassador saying something in Moscow. Only. And that is without digging into the context. Elinruby (talk) 08:58, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

References

• Syrians babies called 'Putin' in honour of Russian president - The Guardian

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Add image

I would like to add a UNESCO image File:A16 Palmira - Tetrapilo 816.jpg to this page, but I do not know if I can put it or I could have sanctions. P.s i here on en.wp i do not have 500 edits but they are admin in some projects and i am global rollback. Thank you. (If you answer me tell me). --Samuele2002 (talk) 18:51, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Language article links

Might it be possible for someone to add links to the 'French language' and 'English language' article pages in the Languages section where they are mentioned? 2A02:C7D:51AC:5000:FC4E:4B47:9421:6569 (talk) 16:40, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Can someone use a little more neutral terms to describe the Syria?

I am well aware that Syria is an authoritarian regime and its not the freest country in the world. But can someone drop the term "totalitarian dictatorship"? Unless I am missing something, Baathist Syria is not a totalitarian dictatorship in the sense of North Korea or other historical totalitarian regimes. Yes the regime is dictatorial but I don't know if we should classify Syria as a totalitarian dictatorship just because the Baath Party and the Assad regime isn't the most pleasant state around. Hell a lot better than North Korea if I had a gun up to my head and I had to choose between which one is "better". I'd choose Syria. Sorry to sound snippy or if I have an agenda, I don't have one. I think its justifiable to label the DPRK as a totalitarian dictatorship, it fits the description of a totalitarian regime but with Syria, that's debatable. I think we should a less biased term to describe the Syrian regime.

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eddediteddie (talk • contribs) 18:03, 31 July 2017 (UTC) 

Semi-protected edit request on 20 August 2017

Change Syria's population density ranking.

On the Syria page it is listed as: 101st.

At the following place it is listed as 111th. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_population_density but this list includes 246 territories, each with a separate ranking.

While the lists for area and population only have numbered rankings for sovereign territories: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population For these two lists, dependent territories aren't a part of the number ranking.

Also, since Syria is 64th in population size and 87th in area size you would think it's population density ranking would be a lower number than 64... but instead it's above 100.

This is partially explained by there being a lot of islands of small area with high population density, but most of these Islands aren't sovereign.

I think the difference in how the first article includes both sovereign and dependent areas while the other lists don't include dependent territories as a part of the numerical order is causing a discrepancy. It might be helpful if these lists all only gave numerical rankings to sovereign nations. There could be other lists that include both dependent and independent areas. Just an idea Donarkese12 (talk) 05:02, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Not done: The territories are excluded in this ranking. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 21:14, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Speaker of the People's Council of Syria

There A New Speaker of the People's Council of Syria Now And his name is Najdat Anzour you have to edit that RaoufAlbeni (talk) 01:58, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

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Etymology section needs to be rearranged.

The claim that the name "Syria" is derived from the epithet "Sirion" used by the Sidonians as an epithet for Mt. Hermon is a fringe theory that should not be cited first as a possible etymology, but rather, last, if at all. There is no evidence that this name for Mt. Hermon ("Sirion") was ever applied to the country Syria as a whole, and the reference cited in this article to this alleged etymology is from a media article by Daniel Pipes. On the other hand, the link between between the names "Assyria" and "Syria" in ancient texts, such as ancient Greek, and the bilingual Luwian-Phoenician Çineköy inscription, is overwhelming favored by the academic community, and thus this should be cited first in the Etymology section. This article should also mention the explicit linkage of "Syrian" with "Assyrian" mentioned in Herodotus, Book 7, Chapter 63, Section 1: "The Assyrians in the army wore on their heads helmets of twisted bronze made in an outlandish fashion not easy to describe...They are called by the Greeks Syrians, but the foreigners called them Assyrians." Jacob D (talk) 16:20, 3 December 2017 (UTC)Jacob D

@Jacob D: The Syrians (who were Arameans and Caananites) were not stupid enough to be called Assyrians by mistake without correcting the term, they even changed their title from Arameans to Syriacs to avoid the link to Paganism, so they know what terms are being used !!! So everyone here tries to disprove the UGARITIC origin of the term is just deluded and wants to force his false opinion (the same letters of a word can take plenty of different meanings nowadays, so you can imagine someone tries to decipher cuneiform texts), just like this DUTCH beauty "Nederlandse Leeuw" who can't even read Aramaic or Hebrew, yet he amazes us with his discovery by saying (Let's mention the historians' consensus first before bringing up a less-favoured hypothesis. Sources seem to indicate Christians and Jews are particularly fond of this explanation because it is found in the Bible) ... how sad and pathetic ! Mark Mercer (talk) 01:21, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

@Mark Mercer: Herodotus and other ancient Greek authors apparently weren't asking the people living in Syria whether they would like to be caled Syrians or Assyrians . It was these Greek writers who referred to as "Syrians" the people that others referred to as "Assyrians". It was only later, in Roman times, that the two terms "Syria" and "Assyria" referred to two different areas, the former to the Levant, the latter to utter Mesopotamia. Jacob D (talk) 17:00, 25 December 2017 (UTC)JD

@Mark Mercer, please assume good faith, and refrain from personal attacks. Civil discussion is important for mutual understanding and to reach consensus. You also do not cite any evidence for your claims here, so there is no way for us to take your point of view into account until you do.

@Jacob D, I hadn't read this message of yours on the talk page here before I rewrote the etymology section on 11 December. It seems we independently came to the same conclusion that the "Sirion" origin is a fringe theory that should be named last, if at all, in this article (more appropriately in the name of Syria article, where it was mentioned already). Looking at this article's history, it was added by Hamath-Zobah 17 very recently on 18 October 2017, then nobody noticed until you did. We may consider deleting the entire Sirion bit. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 02:15, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

@Nederlandse Leeuw: There was a province related to Sassanid empire called Asoristan, while the Romans had Syria to the west, so how come would they be mistaken between Syrians and Assyrians ?! you are a dutch man who wants to enforce his opinion on English readers about another country ! No one needs you to delete or prioritize anything here .. I agreed on keeping the section as it is, but I won't accept removing the Siryon section just because a dutch man and a "Jacob" claim that it is a "fringe theory" .. sad ! Mark Mercer (talk) 12:23, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

@Mark Mercer: The Romans MADE the distinction between Syria and Assyria, BECAUSE Syria was the region that was under THEIR control, whereas Asoristan/Assyria was under Persian control. As far as I am aware, the Seleucids who preceded the Romans did not make that distinction. They controlled the whole area. Jacob D (talk) 17:00, 25 December 2017 (UTC)Jacob D

Note: Mark Mercer has been confirmed as a sockpuppet of User:Hamath-Zobah 17 and several others including but not limited to CadAPL, Aemilius 04, and Amorite Mercenary, following an investigation I launched a few hours ago. He is notorious for disruptive, copyright-violating and pro-Christian anti-Muslim biased editing, especially regarding Syrian history, and trying to circumvent blocks by creating yet another sockpuppet and resume editing the same articles. Mark Mercer's account was blocked a few hours ago. Seeing the person's history, we should be wary of him coming back under yet another different name.
I have decided to delete any mention of the Sirion fringe theory from this page, and move the edited text to the Name of Syria article, where I also moved it further down. It may yet be of some value, but only if at least some mainstream scholars take it seriously. I'm not going to investigate that now, but anyone is free to do so. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 22:51, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 March 2018

There are lots of unverified hearsay in this article, I vote that it be cleaned up. Otherwise this is not usable as a reference.

This is but one thing that is completely irrelevant unless you want to support the propaganda defaming Syria. " August 2013, the government was suspected of using chemical weapons against its civilians. US Secretary of State John Kerry said it was "undeniable" that chemical weapons had been used in the country and that President Bashar al-Assad's forces had committed a "moral obscenity" against his own people. "Make no mistake," Kerry said. "President Obama believes there must be accountability for those who would use the world's most heinous weapon against the world's most vulnerable people. Nothing today is more serious, and nothing is receiving more serious scrutiny".[136]"

Does this mean that any foreign politician can make baseless accusations and have them written into a wikipedia article? Must I also remind you that Obama is the american president with the most wars while in office? please think before using propaganda in an article. 5.186.127.245 (talk) 15:46, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Also, it is not clear what changes are requested. Note the text that was displayed when you made this edit request: "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y" Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:45, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Lede discussion - Golan Heights

Can anyone defend why the discussion on UN/Golan Heights takes up such a large part of the lede paragraph? It seems like that would belong a bit better later on in the article. ChunyangD (talk) 21:29, 10 April 2018 (UTC) ChunyangD (talk) 21:29, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes, this is completely blowing the issue out of proportions - the Western Golan is about 1,200 sq/km; southern Golan of about 150 sq.km. is now occupied by ISIL-affiliate and central Golan of nearly 300 sq.km. is controlled by the opposition forces - neither are mentioned. Turkish occupation of Northern Syria is about 3,000 sq.km but there is no word of it in the lead. In Eastern Syria some 5,000 sq.km still occupied by ISIL and again no word in the lead.GreyShark (dibra) 08:24, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

"Largest Arab" state

The sentence:

"The modern Syrian state was established after the end of centuries of Ottoman control in World War I as a French mandate, and represented the largest Arab state to emerge from the formerly Ottoman-ruled Arab Levant."

The sentence is not sourced and may not suit reality - Egypt was also legally Ottoman-ruled until 1914 and it is larger than Syrian Republic; in addition, originally Syria as a multi-ethnic country was not named "Arab" with Kurdish and Turkmen politicians playing a significant roles in Mandatory Syria and early independent Syria; only in 1958 Syria became named "Arab" due to union with Egypt into "United Arab Republic" and n 1961 split into "Arab Republic of Syria". I've meanwhile changed the sentence into "The modern Syrian state was established in mid-20th century after centuries of Ottoman and a brief period French mandate, and represented the largest Arab state to emerge from the formerly Ottoman-ruled Arab Levant." but "largest Arab" state is probably incorrect.GreyShark (dibra) 08:30, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Okay, and you wrote that its OFTEN refered to as baasthist syria because???? You mean that this is a consensus like Germany after 1933 was refered to as Nazi Germany. Or you mean that its only used in certain places like when Israel is called almost always the Zionist entity in Iran, Syria and their allies? If its the second case then it merits no mention in the lede as we dont write zionist entity in the article of israel for example and we wont write baasthist syria because some people want to call it this. If its the first case then you have a huge task trying to prove that and get a consensus on the talk page in this sensitive article. Oh, and I havent talked about deleting golan from the lede without getting a consensus, I will leave it to another editor.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 12:37, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm not particularly aware of how Israelis refer to Syrian Arab Republic state ruled by al-Assad dynasty, but i do not think it is Ba'athist Syria. The term Ba'athist Syria in English, similar to Ba'athist Iraq refers to a unitary state, ruled by a sole Socialist Arab Ba'ath party, which differs it from Syrian Republic (1945-1958), Opposition-controlled Syrian Arab Republic pseudo-state, Turkish occupied Northern Syria areas (governed together with Syrian Interim Government), Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, Syrian Freedom Movement and North Syria Federation; all those areas are "Syria"s in a way and readers of Wikipedia have hard time to understand that "Syria fights Syria while collaborating with Syria", while "Ba'athist Syria fights with Syrian Opposition forces in partial collaboration with the North Syria Federation" is much more understandable.GreyShark (dibra) 13:22, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

RfC: Ba'athist Syria

There is a clear consensus that this article's lead should not include Ba'athist Syria as one of the common names of the Syrian Arab Republic.

Cunard (talk) 07:41, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I would like to ask editors whether this article lead should include Ba'athist Syria as one of the common names of the Syrian Arab Republic. Currently it is still a consensus that Syria refers to the Syrian Arab Republic, which is a unitary geopolitical entity (state) ruled by the al-Assad dynasty on behalf of the Syria-based Ba'ath Party, which is ruling Syrian Arab Republic since the 1963 coup d'etat. In a very similar case for Iraq during the Ba'athist period 1968-2003 the country article is named Ba'athist Iraq. Furthermore, Ba'athist Syria is a very common term in media and scholar literature to refer to the Ba'ath ruled Syrian Arab Republic's territory, population and military (see Quicksilver War: Syria, Iraq and the Spiral of Conflict 2018,Class and Capitalism in Syria 2016,Everyday Arab Identity: The Daily Reproduction of the Arab World 2013,Greater Syria: The History of an Ambition 1992), to differentiate it from pre-1963 Syrian Republic and from other modern Syrian entities of the Syrian Civil War, such as North Syria Federation and Syrian Opposition (rebel members also often use Syrian Arab Republic as self-designated descriptory term). Please comment whether you think Ba'athist Syria should or should not be included in lead section per WP:COMMONNAME and whether it should be bolded or not.GreyShark (dibra) 13:43, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Regardless of the official name a government might give a country, it doesnt mean that this country become identified with this government. Baathist Iraq is an article different from the article of the country of Iraq established in 1920 which was ruled by different regimes. Same goes for the articles of Germany and Nazi Germany where the Nazi article is a sub article of Germany. If this article is Baathist Syria then any sections dealing with non Baathist Syria have to be deleted!!!... This is the article of Syria since 1920 which was ruled by different regimes. An article about Baathist Syria can be created but the general article cant be presented as Baathist Syria. As for the illegal entities appearing after the war, they dont have any weight affecting the legal position of the state of Syria since they are not recpgnized as anything but areas under the control of a militia. There is one country called Syria.. Barcelona is Spain but you wont find someone arguing that Spain fought Spain when Madrid stopped the seperation of Catalunia! Can the editor who asked for rfc show us any evidence that those entities are Syria!! How can a militia controlled area take a simillar position as the UN recognized country! The editor seems to mix his own thoughts with facts. As for the common name argument, I guess its clear that this isnt the case! Maybe a minority will call it this but certainly its not the common name of the country. Few books dont make it common. Nazi Germany is common in Media and between common people, but how many times do we hear Baasthist syria in the news!--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:22, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose - that would be as neutral as adding "Zionist entity" as a common name for Israel. Also, "Baathist Syria" is not even used as a "common name" of the country by the sources listed, simply as a description, so the premise of this request is ridiculous. Even if it was, we don't refer to for example China as "Communist China" in that article's lead either. FunkMonk (talk) 16:16, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose this attempt at a surprisingly blatant violation of WP:NPOV policy. Not much more need be said except that this RfC should be speedily closed. We have more pressing issues at hand. -The Gnome (talk) 08:02, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose It refers to the government by a particular party and it is not a name for the country. Zero^talk 10:28, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. Adding the word "Ba'athist" would exclude other political parties in Syria, as if to say that the country does not belong to them.Davidbena (talk) 13:52, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose. 1. The proposal is pure POV-pushing. 2. There's nothing "common" about this name. 3. There is only one country of Syria. Certain areas of the country are still under the control of armed insurgents, but they are nonetheless still a part of the same Syria as downtown Damascus. -2003:CA:83CB:8100:AD6C:7400:E6F5:B509 (talk) 00:38, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose (Summoned by bot) Name of a governemtn not a country, also, governemtn currently contested in protracted civil war. ^{cinco de} L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 02:22, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

4.5 Agrarian Reforms needs several minor edits

Agrarian reform measures were introduced into Syria which consisted of three interrelated programs: Legislation regulating {regulation} the relationship between agricultural {agriculture} laborers and landowners; {:} legislation governing the ownership and use of private and state domain land and directing the economic organization of peasants; and measures reorganizing agricultural production under state control.[150] Despite high levels of inequality in land ownership these reforms allowed for more progress in redistribution of land from 1958 to 1961 than any other reforms in Syria's history, since independence.

The first law was passed (Law 134; passed 4 September 1958) in response to concerns {concern} about peasant mobilization and expanding peasants' rights.[151] This was designed to strengthen the position of sharecroppers and agricultural laborers in relation to land owners.[151] This law led {lead} to the creation of the Ministry of Labor and Social Affairs, which announced the implementation of new laws that would allow for the regulation of working conditions, {condition} especially for women and adolescents, set hours of work, and introduced {introduce} the principle of minimum wage for paid laborers and an equitable division of harvest for sharecroppers.[152] Furthermore, it obligated landlords to honor both written and oral contracts, established collective bargaining {barging}, and contained provisions for workers' compensation, health, housing, and employment services.[151] Law 134 was not designed strictly to protect workers. It also acknowledged the rights of landlords to form their own syndicates.[151] 173.164.68.154 (talk) 05:24, 27 April 2018 (UTC)George Neally

Request for Comment- A White Helmets Controversy

Hello, there is a RfC at the White Helmets Talk page which may interest people on this here. -GPRamirez5 (talk) 06:30, 22 May 2018 (UTC) GPRamirez5 (talk) 06:30, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Request for Comment-Foreign involvement in Civil War

There is currently an RfC on Foreign involvement in the Syrian Civil War which editors here may wish to weigh in on. Best, GPRamirez5 (talk) 15:48, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 October 2018

Forward assault game (talk) 13:40, 14 October 2018 (UTC)