Talk:Tenzing Norgay National Adventure Award

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 13:55, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

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• Article history

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INSV Tarini with members of Navika Sagar Parikrama leaving Cape Town

• ... that six members of Navika Sagar Parikrama (pictured), the all female crew circumnavigating the globe, were given the Tenzing Norgay National Adventure Award in 2017, India's highest adventure award? Source: [1] [2]

Created by Roller26 (talk). Self-nominated at 23:51, 25 September 2020 (UTC).

• Article created in draftspace, moved to mainspace and nominated within the appropriate timeframe. Article is long enough. It appears to be written neutrally. The hook fact is cited inline in the article. This is the user's second DYK so QPQ is not required. The only issues is a lack of sourcing. I am adding tags inline for this. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:37, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Muboshgu thanks for the review. I have done some major changes in the article plus I have added a photo with the hook. Let me know if this works. Thanks. Roller26 (talk) 14:03, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

• Comment: The hook is rather wordy. I suggest piping the link:
• ALT1: ... that the six members of Navika Sagar Parikrama (boat pictured), an all-female crew circumnavigating the globe, were given India's highest adventure award in 2017? Yoninah (talk) 23:19, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

• Yoninah, this a better worded hook. Thanks. Roller26 (talk) 00:25, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

• The page is considerably rewritten from when I reviewed it a few days ago. Looks good to me! I'm unclear about the Indian government copyright issue around that image, but it appears to be allowed? – Muboshgu (talk) 19:19, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

GA Advice

@Muboshgu:, Thanks for reviewing the DYK nomination. If you could spare a moment, I would like your advice about this article. I have gone through everything available on the Indian Government press releases (pib.gov.in) since 1993 (when the award was first announced) and news articles at-least the ones available on internet or dead links archived on wayback machine. I am effectively missing 4 names out of 139 awardees and details of 3 awardees as listed on List of Tenzing Norgay National Adventure Award recipients.

Apart from those, I believe this is the comprehensive coverage of this award at least on the sources searchable on the internet. There are definitely no books or research papers written about it. Broadly speaking what more needs to be done here so that it becomes suitable for good article nomination. Would appreciate your advice. Thanks. Roller26 (talk) 12:52, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

• @Yoninah:, I would appreciate your inputs on the GA Advice for this article. Thanks. Roller26 (talk) 14:41, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

• @Roller26: I'm afraid I'm not the right one to ask. I get very stressed out by GA reviews because I find they are very nitpicky. I suggest you just nominate it and then try to deal with the reviewer's comments. Good luck, Yoninah (talk) 15:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Tenzing Norgay National Adventure Award/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ArnabSaha (talk · contribs) 18:01, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Comments

• Close paraphrasing

• The website has entirely copied the text of wiki page Rajiv Gandhi Khel Ratna. Also on closer inspection, the text being copied is "It is awarded annually by the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports", "The nominations for a given year are accepted", "The committee later submits their recommendations to the Union Minister of Youth Affairs and Sports for further approval", "outstanding performance in the field", "The Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports". I believe that copying these terms is okay. However let me know how you would like me to proceed forward. Roller26 (talk) 15:39, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

• AGF on the Earwig issue (backward copy).  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  06:18, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

• Add citations for the "Award recipients by ..." charts

• There is no citation for the charts. There is no source detailing all the winners and neither is any single source discussing all the winners in a single article. You can check List of Tenzing Norgay National Adventure Award recipients and the number of RS needed to establish the name of winners, gender, category and discipline and yet a small amount of data is missing. I have extensively searched the web, archives, archives of PIB, offline material to come to this list. I have user WP:CALC, simple arithmetic calculation to make these charts. Kindly advice on how to proceed forward. Roller26 (talk) 19:19, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

• Hmm, there are a lot of citations. the current format will work (as the list article is linked there)  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  17:46, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

• Why some citations have another citation in it? like the [8], [11], [14], [23]... Curious to know.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  12:11, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

• All the citations are required to summarize the point. Some data in is 1st citation and the other data in other citation. Roller26 (talk) 16:49, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

  • I wouldn't recommend this format. I keep citations separate and also have seen them separate in other articles. Pinging @Whiteguru: to give an opinion on this.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  10:25, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

• @ArnabSaha: Bharat Ratna, Padma Vibhushan and Padma Bhushan and all its winners list are either GA or FL and use the same format. Hence I have used them keeping in line with the top civilian awards.Roller26 (talk) 13:28, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

• @ArnabSaha:@Roller26: My thoughts are that the review was complete and a 2^nd opinion was called for, and that matters have been addressed appropriately. Going back to the original review and seeking further changes seems to be a retrograde action. With regard to Bharat Ratna, Padma Vibhushan and Padma Bhushan, I am fully aware of the nature of these awards and how they were assessed (I checked all the references) (repeatedly), and I am satisfied with the citations. I am not seeking further changes. --Whiteguru (talk) 07:07, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

  Ok, thanks a lot.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  07:08, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

• Add years in the INRConvert templates.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  17:37, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

• Doing this for Rs. 50,0000 in 1994 yields ₹50,000 (equivalent to ₹260,000 or US$3,700 in 2019). I am not sure doing this for all prize money value is a prudent option. Roller26 (talk) 16:49, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

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ArnabSaha, its nearing a month since the start of the review. If suitable, request you to complete this review in the next few days. Regards. Roller26 (talk) 19:21, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Roller26, sorry for the delay. I will finish this asap.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  14:23, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

@Roller26:  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  17:50, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

• Passed  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  07:12, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

• ArnabSaha, Whiteguru, Thank You for reviewing and navigating me through my 1st GA process. I hope to write Arjuna Award and bring it to a similar level. The article is pretty important (probably the most recognition top non-cricket sportsperson get in India) and very popular, even in this state it was getting close to half million pageviews a year. I hope if you would be interested, you would help me in the that review process too. Regards. Roller26 (talk) 10:29, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Tenzing Norgay National Adventure Award 2^nd Opinion

 

Starts GA 2^nd Opinion; the review will follow the same sections of the Article. --Whiteguru (talk) 03:37, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

 

@Roller26: @ArnabSaha:

 

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Observations

• Image: qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law.
• Infobox links to Government of India Wikipedia page. Infobox does not link to external page about the award.

• Not sure if you are asking me to include the official website link. Roller26 (talk) 16:55, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• Yes, the official award page.

 Done Roller26 (talk) 22:49, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• Lede: the highest adventure sports honour of Republic of India. ⇾ the highest adventure sports honour of the Republic of India.

 Done Roller26 (talk) 16:55, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• Lede: equivalent to Arjuna Award ⇾ equivalent to the Arjuna Award

 Done Roller26 (talk) 16:55, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• History: Ten individual and one team Arjuna award → Ten individual and one team Arjuna awards

 Done Roller26 (talk) 16:55, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• History: In 2003 the awards were renamed after Tenzing Norgay, a Nepali-Indian Sherpa mountaineer ... overlinking. 4 links in there. Drop all those links and link to the Tenzing Norgay page.

 Done Roller26 (talk) 16:55, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• The History section is good, it takes the reader from the Arjuna award to the evolution of the Tenzing Norgay National Adventure Award and its unfolding ceremonial place in the national sporting awards, as well as the incremental presentations of statue, tie, blazer/saree and cash awards. As mentioned, a little overlinking. References to Sir Edmund Hillary allow the reader to see the unfolding honours and recognition given to this pioneer.
• Selection Process: Reference 18 gives an excellent overview of the nomination process, validation and final verification by government nominees.
• Recipients: Award recipients by discipline has the numerals appearing outside the highlighted area. This formatting error appears the same in Microsoft Edge, Google Chrome, Opera and Firefox. Suggest an edit.

• Could not find a solution after spending some time on the help pages of bar charts. Roller26 (talk) 20:08, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• Leave as an HTML formatting fault.
  Resolved

• category have been given in mountaineering, ⇾ category have been given to mountaineering

 Done Roller26 (talk) 17:01, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• in the water adventure category to open water swimming and sailing, and in the air adventure category to skydiving.

 Done Roller26 (talk) 17:01, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• I think we can drop chairman emeritus of the Raymond Group and as it is not essential to this article. Leave the rest in.

 Done Roller26 (talk) 17:01, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• Navika Sagar Parikrama makes total sense in Hindi and Sanskritam; it needs to say (circumnavigation of the globe) immediately after the foreign text (this is the English Wikipedia: MOS tells put foreign language in italics and give translation).

 Done Roller26 (talk) 19:42, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• The Arjuna award is referenced in the Lede, in the History section and also in the Recipients section. This article is about the Tenzing Norgay National Adventure Award. Sufficient reference is given to the fact that the Arjuna Award existed and was received by (these Tenzing) recipients also. I sense there is duplication here, in listing awardees who have received both awards. This is not necessary. My sense is that all the material after Chandraprabha Aitwal lifetime awards might be dropped. Commencing Before this award was introduced, and following in this paragraph is all duplication and might be dropped.

• I disagree with this assessment. All the double winners are people who have great achievements and then gone on to promote adventure sports throughout their life, 7 of the 8 awardees have received lifetime achievement awards. The current boom in Indian mountaineering can in part be attributed to them. Also this seems the most logical place for it. The list page just contains the entire list of awardees. The Arjuna Award (which I intend to work on) has many more winners and will not have space for this. I believe the recipients mentioned in this paragraph are more important and accomplished then the ones on the next paragraph. Roller26 (talk) 20:08, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• Lifetime awardees noted and accepted. Statement accepted. Y

• The paragraph commencing Over the years, is appropriate and references to the achievements of individuals illustrate the purpose of the awards prudently.
• Grammar: Before this award was introduced, the Arjuna award used to be also given for adventure sports and mountaineering, eight people have won both awards. Change to →

Before this award was introduced, the Arjuna award was also given for adventure sports and mountaineering; eight people have won both awards.

 Done Roller26 (talk) 17:11, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• This sentence is redundant and can be removed: Chandraprabha Aitwal and Bachendri Pal were awarded the Arjuna Award in the field of mountaineering in 1981 and 1984 respectively. (There is a link to the awards page. Readers can access this information there.)

 Done Roller26 (talk) 19:42, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• Controversies: this section is well handled, with archived references which allow the reader to go and make their own assessment. Well done.
• Controversies: excellent summary of Reference 48

 

Final

• Agreed, it is reasonable to assume good faith on the Earwig copy vio. No attempt to misrepresent the prize or coverage thereof is noted.
• Accepted that some citations will be repeated, and noted that some citations are placed at the end of a sentence (such as caving, etc)
• The charts are copy charts from the Awards list page. The errors noted are present on that page also.
• This a good article, if written in places in Indian English. It is broad in coverage, neutral, illustrated, and where pointed out, somewhat repetitive of the Arjuna Award.
• @Roller26: My sense is if we fix up the fiddly bits raised above, the article is worthy of good article rating.
• @ArnabSaha: After correction of issues raised above, recommend passing the GA review. --Whiteguru (talk) 04:57, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

• Whiteguru, Thanks. I will pass after Roller26 completes these.  Saha ❯❯❯ Stay safe  07:45, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

• @ArnabSaha:, @Whiteguru:, Thanks for the review, suggested edits and insights. The inspiration for this article is mainly Rajiv Gandhi Khel Ratna which is a FL. You can see a lot of format, style, subheadings are similar. Let me know about the remaining issues and how to proceed forward. Regards. Roller26 (talk) 20:14, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• @ArnabSaha: This resolution leaves only one matter to be sorted, the link in the infobox to the official awards page. Meanwhile, the Good Article review may be passed. --Whiteguru (talk) 22:25, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• @Whiteguru:, website added to the infobox. Roller26 (talk) 22:50, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• @Roller26: Good, thanks. And thank you for your diligence. --Whiteguru (talk) 03:46, 24 April 2021 (UTC)