Talk:Toronto streetcar system rolling stock

Flexity Outlook

The Flexity Outlook have entered revenue service on August 31, 2014. The article needs more elaboration as well with regards to this. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 02:01, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Flexity Freedom

I don't see the need to have the LRT stock mentioned anywhere in this article - it's clear that the Crosstown and other future lines will be lumped in with the other rapid transit lines, not the streetcars. Radagast (talk) 18:31, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

New summaries

@Joeyconnick, Johnny Au, and Radagast: You are invited to comment on a proposed split. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 01:15, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

In addition to table listings of rolling stock, this article contains a summary of three major types of rolling stock. The problem with the summaries is that they are too long and haphazard:

• The PCC summary is too long with many minor details. I propose reducing the text, moving details to the main article. I may restructure the main article in the process.
• The CLRV/ALRV summary is much too detailed sometimes repeating details found in the main article. I propose reducing the text moving details to the main article.
• The Flexity Outlook summary is not a summary of the vehicle but a detailed description of the selection process for a new streetcar. I propose replacing the text with a completely new summary, merging the old text into the History section of the main article. Note: This would be a somewhat large addition to the main article.

Much of the old text lacks REFs; I will try to find REFs but I might not always be succesful.

This project would be done gradually over the winter. Comments on this proposal are welcome. Thanks. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 01:00, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

I am strongly in favour of this revamp. There really needs to be more people to review the content. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 01:31, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Overall sounds good. Of the three, I think the PCC summary length is okay, but if there's details there that should be copied to the main PCC article, I'm all for that... and probably wouldn't object if the summary here were a little shorter. The other two sections are in definite need of trimming! Great suggestion(s). —Joeyconnick (talk) 02:57, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

@Joeyconnick: I strongly agree. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 00:46, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

This also has my support. An excellent initiative. Radagast (talk) 03:21, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Progress

• The Flexity Outlook section has been moved to the main article (section: Selection process), and a new summary has replaced it in this article. I might do minor edits later. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 01:08, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
  • Looks good... although I think a summary of the whole very delayed Flexity rollout fiasco deserves mention in the Flexity section on this page, especially given this page is about all the entire streetcar system's stock, and the fiasco impacts not just the Flexitys (Flexities?) but also the originally scheduled retirement of the ALRV/CLRVs. Basically just a paragraph stating the original end date for the full rollout, the issues, the alternate manufacturer lined up, the court case, the need for bus service replacements, the related delays, the latest delay with the joint that has to be redone, etc. Anyway, if I get some time I'll put something together. —Joeyconnick (talk) 20:08, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
    • I'll make a brief statement on the delivery problems, but I think the details are best left to the main article. I feel this article should be more railfan-oriented, focusing on rosters. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 00:00, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
    • @Joeyconnick: The plural of Flexity is Flexities. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 03:18, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
• The former jumbled roster tables were reorganized splitting the tables by family of vehicles. The tables still need further work. As you can now see, for example, there is no mention of the many TRC cars the TTC inherited. I have several reference books to fill in the blanks. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 00:00, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
• PCC roster table replaced with detail by class; table on classes of ex-TRC streetcars added. The TRC table was tedious to summarize from a book which is probably why no-one had done it before. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 01:13, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
• The PCC summary was largely rewritten, after some minor details were split to the main article. The new summary appears to be longer than the old one in order to give a little history. The main article still needs reworking, but I want to finish this article first. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 00:42, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
• I split CLRV-specific sections ("Operator training", "Blacksmith") from Toronto streetcar system to Canadian Light Rail Vehicle as the two sections contain CLRV/ALRV-specific info that does not apply to Flexity Outlook (Toronto streetcar). TheTrolleyPole (talk) 01:18, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Looking great so far. Much better than before. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 02:05, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

For the CLRVs and ALRVs, I have moved all salvageable details to the main article. Most items lacked a REF, which I would usually find. If I could not find a REF, I abandoned the detail. I still need to rewrite the summary. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 21:59, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Those changes will make things much clearer. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 02:50, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

• I published a new CLRV/ALRV summary presenting info (supported by REFs) in a timeline sequence. It's a little longer than the old summary, and provides a concise history leaving minor details to the main article. I removed some editorializing from the old summary. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 19:41, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
• I replaced the intro and removed the split notice. The new intro is more chronological than the previous one, and starts the story in 1921 rather than in 1861 then jumping to 1954. There is still more work to be done to fill the near-empty sections on TCR and Peter Witt streetcars. The section on work cars needs some editing. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 23:09, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm liking these new changes. Eventually, it can be a good article. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 02:04, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Work cars

Hello again. My next task is to clean up the Work cars section which currently has a table with lots of missing info, most of which I could fill in. Currently, the Toronto streetcar system has no rail-based work vehicles other than rubber-tire vehicles with extendable rail wheels. Thus, everything in this section is history. Since 1921, there has been a few hundred, often unique work cars, which I do not wish to tabulate. Thus, in the table, I wish to show only cars preserved at a museum, in which case all scrapped vehicles will be deleted from the table. I plan to write a summary making reference to work vehicles in general such as rail grinders, snow sweepers, cranes, etc. Would there be any objection to show only preserved work cars in the table? @Joeyconnick, Johnny Au, and Radagast: Please comment. Thanks. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 01:41, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

I would not be fussed if even the museum pieces are left out, but if you feel they're notable certainly proceed as planned. Radagast (talk) 14:36, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree. What about vehicles converted into restaurants? Are they considered museum pieces for the purposes of tabulation? Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 02:39, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Only work cars preserved as such at streetcar/rail museums will be included. The table will have only about a dozen items. The PCC main article lists retired PCCs converted into restaurants, shops and farm sheds. The list mixes such items with museum pieces and heritage streetcar operations; I will eventually split these out into separate tables. Do you want the items for restaurants, etc. deleted? Most have no REF. Many may not exist anymore. I think a sample photo would suffice as a substitute. TheTrolleyPole (talk) 13:47, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

If the ones converted into restaurants or shops don't have refs, then they are to be deleted. When I say refs, I don't mean something like a tweet, an Instagram post, a Reddit comment, a forum post, or such. Refs need to be reliable. Johnny Au _{(talk/contributions)} 02:10, 25 November 2018 (UTC)