Talk:Tributyltin

Response to Peer Revision

Fleshed out the Introduction to give a more comprehensive overview of TBT's use, toxicity and current status

• included that TBT is used in anti-fouling paints (bottom paint) and explained its function. In response to suggestions to add more desciptions.
• kept name of organizations that banned TBT (against suggestions of peer review)
• added where it was still a problem

Chemical Properties

• added chembox to include a lot of technical info about TBT, so we could talk about more environmentally relevant details in the chemical properties
• added details on half life and sedimentation
• decided that blending chem properties and uses was not a good idea, against peer review suggestion
• moved the chemical lab use from uses to chem properties

Uses

• added more details about how biocide functions, and why TBT is used in anti-fouling paint
• emphasized that anit-fouling paint comes into contact with water
• expanded on mechanism/how it works

Toxicity

• more details on half-life
• molecular details on invert toxicity
• focused on a more studied and more effected organism
• added more details on Tuna contamination as indication of TBT spread through the food chain globally
• cleared up some confusion about molecular targets in vert
• Seperated a mammals section
• explain why hearing loss is a major problem for marine ecosystems

Regulation

• organized regulation more chronologically
• added cost/financial issues
• expanded on what the IMO regulation entailed more specifically

General Edits

• fixed grammatical errors, made writing flow more
• changed diction to make more formal/professional

HallCU (talk) 01:27, 29 April 2014 (UTC) Pitpeelorchard (talk) 00:51, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Peer Revision

Wikireview: Tributyltin

Overview: Good Start! It is really difficult to sum up all the parts of the article in only a few sentences! I feel like you should add that tributyltin compounds are mainly used on boats. I think by including a practical application it makes the complicated chemical name seem more grounded, which is important for an overview. Also, I don’t know if you need to include the organization names that have banned TBT because they are really long and you could just say that they have been banned by various “regulatory organizations.” I think it is okay to be general in the overview and then add details later when you talk about policy.

TBT Chemical Properties: You could probably change the title to “chemical properties” and take out the TBT because we know its about TBT, but it’s a minor detail. Overall I think this paragraph is well written.

Uses: I’m not sure whether anti-fouling should be hyphenated or not? You could also include that antifouling paint is also called bottom paint. It I think it would be beneficial to have a link to “antifouling paint” because there is a Wikipedia page for it. It might also be helpful to take a sentence to explain what it is because I didn’t know what it was. I would emphasize that anti-fouling paint is primarily used on boats, which come into direct contact with the marine environment. I think the last sentence “In the chemical laboratory, tributyltin hydride generated by the action of lithium aluminium hydrideon tributyltin chloride is used to replace halogens in organic compounds for hydrogen” is more applicable to the chemical properties section. Even though it is technically a use of TBT, you don’t really talk about any other chemistry in the “Uses” section so I think it would fit better in the “Chemical Properties” section where you describe the structure.

Toxicity: You first sentence was wordy so I re-structured it a little. I think that you could break this section up into 2 paragraphs. I think the information about it accumulating in sediment can be a separate topic from the toxic effects. The first paragraph could explain why its bad and the second could say why we should still care about it. It is easier to read shorter paragraphs.

Marine Invertebrates: “Chironomus riparious” should be italicized because it is a species name. You could also include that it is a type of mosquito and is used in toxicology tests because it is easy to study the development in early embryos. Also a wikilink to the page for chironomus riparious would be helpful. It would make the article more readable for people outside the scientific community. Also explain what benthic invertebrates are. This is not something everyone would know and it is important information to understand the data because these organisms are found in the sediment at the bottom of bodies of water. It makes sense that they would be affected by TBT, which accumulates in the sediment. Also italicize and wikilink “Lymnaea stagnalis” in the second paragraph.

Marine Mammals: Also italicize, link, and include the common names of the organisms that you talk about. I think something got cut off at the end of your first paragraph when you talk about tail abnormalities. I don’t think you need to include the full name of the enzyme “11beta-hydroxysteroiddehydrogenase type 2.” I would be sufficient to say that it inhibits the activity of the enzyme that converts cortisol to cortisone. You could also give a brief explanation of the purpose of glucocorticoid. It is confusing because it sounds like glucocorticoid is related to the genes that cause the growth of fat cells, but I’m pretty sure it regulates the levels of glucose in response to stress. In the third paragraph, I think it would read better if you said the otters have “higher tissue levels of butyltins” instead of “higher level of tissue butyltins.” When you talk about the hearing loss in whales, I think it would be more affective to explain why it matters. I know that hearing loss for dolphins is a huge issue because they use echolocation to hunt, and they communicate in some ways through sound. I would assume that whales would be affected in a similar way. A lot of people might assume that hearing loss for aquatic organisms is not important because they are under water.

Past and Current Responses: Capitalize the entire title. A more accurate title might be “Past and Current Regulation and Policy.” In the first sentence I think you need to say “the use of organotin compounds” and instead of “has been banned” you can say “was banned.” Juli12Anne (talk) 03:48, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi!This TBT article is off to a great start! Just a few general comments and ideas:

Overall, I think you can expand your introduction. It’s helpful that you include wiki-links to many pages, but it’s still very confusing to read. As an average reader, I don’t know what “moiety”, “biocides”, or the “Rotterdam convention” is. Perhaps you could include a brief explanation after these things, so that the reader doesn’t have to click several different wiki-links just to make it through the introduction. That way, it would be more accessible to a wider audience.

At the end of the “chemical properties” section, I was wondering what the effect of TBT being released from the sediments was? It was mentioned later, but would be helpful if it was included at the end of the “TBT chemical properties” section. Perhaps this could be remedied by either blending the “chemical properties” and “uses” sections together, or working to make them more separate. Overall, the “chemical properties” and “uses” sections seem to have a lot of overlap, and some ideas are related to both sections.

Additionally, for these two sections (“chemical properties” and “uses”), I think it would be helpful to include more details. In the introduction you mention that tributyltin (TBT) is used in biocides to “control a broad spectrum of organisms.” Later it’s mentioned that the particular organisms involved are marine and aquatic species. I was interested in what chemical properties of TBT made it capable of controlling these species, and why there was a need for an aquatic pesticide?

It would be helpful to either include a description of what antifouling agents are, or a link to some sort of antifouling Wikipedia page. It’s mentioned that TBT extends the life of paint and also increases fuel efficiency, but I’m really not sure how those two things are related/what TBT actually does. Additionally, I was curious as to what properties of it made it a particularly good antifouling agent? How was it discovered that it was a good antifouling agent? From my knowledge thus far, TBT was used as some sort of pesticide in aquatic environments, which seems very different than an “antifouling agent”.

What is the half-life of TBT? In the toxicity section, it is mentioned that “one of the most problematic aspects of TBT is…its long half-life”, but the actually half-life isn’t mentioned.

I loved the “toxicity” section! There are so many great details; it was extremely helpful and informative. This is definitely the strongest part of your article.

For the “Past and current responses” section, it would be helpful if the responses were listed in chronological order. It’s a bit confusing to read because it jumps back and forth between TBT being currently banned, but TBT being useful back when it was first discovered, and then the beginnings of TBT bannings. Additionally, I think this section would be better suited if it was placed earlier in the article, after the “uses” section.

Overall, this is a great start! I really enjoyed reading your article and I can’t wait to see what you do with it! Blairwal (talk) 00:29, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Overall, this page looks great. It has a little bit of everything and you have touched many aspects of TBT chemical that can impact the environment. However you said that this chemical can also affect non-aquatic ecosystems; maybe adding a few more paragraphs explaining how TBT can affect non-aquatic environment and possibly to humans can help expand the page. kimaox (talk) 00:29, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Outline for Revision

Trybutyltin

1) TBT chemical properties - discuss in more detail than already on the page, and link more directly to Organotin Compounds Page.

2) Uses of Trybutyltin Justifications for its use in industry ex. marine anti-fouling paint, ensures good fuel efficiency, less ship repair molluscivide stone preservation wood preservation

This also gets into how its released into the environment - boats in particular

3) Repercussion (possibly talk about how TBT is moved around in the marine environment- ex. Volatilisation, Photolysis, Adsorption) B) Biological invertebrates ex. shell defomrations in oysters masculinization of femal marine snails Imposex vertebrates ex. immunosupression in otters and dolphins links to obesity

bacteria - evidence of resistant bacteria

C) Molecular depending on the amount of information we can dig up, we can dicuss known molecular processes that lead to these deformities, and focus on targets of TBT common mechanism How it is metabolized that This should relate to the Tin Poisining Page, and we will make links to the page

3) Political Response many countries have taken steps to regulate TBT registered as pesticide limiting content in paint limiting sale controversial however, bc of effect on industry prices. EPA policies

Tin Poisoning After getting more details from TBT and linking them to this page, we canput more emphasis on

1) Treatment

2) Related Diseases

References Westrum, Bente; Thomassen, Yngvar (2002). The Nordic Expert Group for Criteria Documentation of Health Risks from Chemicals and the Dutch Expert Committee on Occupational Standards : 130. Tin and inorganic tin compounds. Arbetslivsinstitutet.

Mora, Stephen (1996) Tributyltin: a case study of an environmental contaminant. Cambridge envorinmental chemistry series 8.

Chemical Database http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/tributyl.htm

EPA standards for TBT http://water.epa.gov/scitech/swguidance/standards/criteria/aqlife/tributyltin/fs-final.cfm

TBT linked to obesitiy Zylius, Steve (2013) Fetal exposure to tributyltin linked to obesity in offspring and subsequent generations. UCIrvineNews http://news.uci.edu/press-releases/fetal-exposure-to-pvc-plastic-chemical-linked-to-obesity-in Pitpeelorchard (talk) 18:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Page should be merged or revised strongly

What about moving this article to Tin poisoning. Most of the concerns with tin toxicity are related to triorgano- and diorganotin compounds.--Smokefoot (talk) 23:22, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Propose to rename this article

I dont think that a lot of editors are watching this thing, but the article is about a topical issue in antifouling paints. The title should probably reflect that. The term "tributyltin" is environmental jargon, and would bother chemists since it is almost a meaningless adjective. Possible names = Environmental effects of organotin compounds, etc--Smokefoot (talk) 14:10, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Maybe… If "tributyltin" is, as you say, the common environmental jargon for all this then it might make sense to keep with the current title. After all tributyltin doesn't exist as a discreet chemical (assuming that bis(tributyltin) doesn’t count) so this page isn’t really getting in the way of anything. That’s just me though, I prefer short page names - readers can be lazy when entering search terms. --Project Osprey (talk) 10:03, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Edit Suggestion

Overall, I think this article is well put together, but I think some sections could stand to be expanded a bit, if data exists to expand them.

Specifically, I think the first two paragraphs of the Toxicity section would benefit from expansion. In the first paragraph, it seems like it would be useful to know the actual physiological effects that it is having on the organisms it is poisoning, as well as how, specifically, it "harmfully effects many layers of the ecosystem" and what exact layers are being effected and how. It would be also be useful to have some specific numbers with regards to its accumulation in sediment, and the actual levels found in the sediment. --AELie515 (talk) 03:08, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Be sure to adhere to WP:MEDRS and WP:SECONDARY: cite real books and reviews. If you are not expert on relevant chemistry or toxicology, then be cautious in your editing.--Smokefoot (talk) 14:27, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Edit Suggestion 2

I think this is a very concise and knowledge page. My main concern is the contradiction found within the invertebrates section. It shows biologically and experimentally how TBT causes masculinization in invertebrates. In the following paragraph, it states how in chironomus riparius, another model invertebrate, produces the exact opposite result of showing feminization. Tracklete14 (talk) 04:30, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Well they are very different organisms, one is a snail and the other a fly. I'm willing to beielve that they both suffer reproductive effects from TBT but that the outcomes are different (You've only got two possible outcomes). I've added some refs to try and clear that up but we need a good secondary review to work from if we're going to make a good job of this. --Project Osprey (talk) 10:24, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Edited math expressions

I changed a number of expressions of fractions of the form ng l^-1 to use the solidus (/): ng/l. Customary practice of typography favors the solidus for in-line math, as in this case. I hope this edit is OK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArthurOgawa (talk • contribs) 17:16, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Tributyltin/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/criteria/tributyltin/tbt-final.pdf Most of the citations you need are in here.

Last edited at 16:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 09:15, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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The Warmsley ref is made twice, and is an info release by WWF, not a peer-reviewed article. Are your Warmsley? The WWF article seems to show some self-contradictions. It claims TBT readily leaches from the polymer base, but supposedly has very low solubility in water and sediment. Copolymer anti-fouls are intended to wear away in flowing water, and do not contain TBT, or other poisons. When a vessel lies at a mooring growth occurs on the copolymer. When it is underway the copolymer layers slowly rub off via friction with waterborne particles, and the growth rubs off with it as there is no solid base. All TBT anti-fouls I've used are in a paint base that does not peel off at all. In fact, a pressure blaster is needed to strip it. TBT is usually painted in one or two thin layers. Copolymer coatings usually have a minimum of seven layers, and in the last 40yrs I've certainly never seen any of them contain toxins.220.240.225.135 (talk) 08:36, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

15000 papers and counting

According to Chemical Abstracts, for "tributyltin": 15,755 reports have been published, of which 306 reviews have appeared since the year 2000. Wikipedia editors should show preference for reviews per WP:SECONDARY and for books WP:TERTIARY, but instead recent editors are contributing primary literature. What is the plan? Add cite all 15,755 papers? The top cited reviews are not mentioned in this article:

1. Antifouling technology-past, present and future steps towards efficient and environmentally friendly antifouling coatings

Quick View Other Sources By Yebra, Diego Meseguer; Kiil, Soren; Dam-Johansen, Kim From Progress in Organic Coatings (2004), 50(2), 75-104.  |  Language: English, Database: CAPLUS

1. Organotin compounds in the environment - an overview

Quick View Other Sources By Hoch, M. From Applied Geochemistry (2001), 16(7-8), 719-743.  |  Language: English, Database: CAPLUS

1. Health effects of endocrine-disrupting chemicals on wildlife, with special reference to the European situation

Quick View Other Sources By Vos, Joseph G.; Dybing, Erik; Greim, Helmut A.; Ladefoged, Ole; Lambre, Claude; Tarazona, Jose V.; Brandt, Ingvar; Vethaak, A. Dick From Critical Reviews in Toxicology (2000), 30(1), 71-133.  |  Language: English, Database: CAPLUS

1. Modern approaches to marine antifouling coatings

Quick View Other Sources By Chambers, L. D.; Stokes, K. R.; Walsh, F. C.; Wood, R. J. K. From Surface and Coatings Technology (2006), 201(6), 3642-3652.  |  Language: English, Database: CAPLUS

Here is what should be done: replace all primary literature with reviews. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a compendium.--Smokefoot (talk) 12:31, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree 100%. However, as do not have access to the literature, I cannot offer to help. Yilloslime (talk) 18:05, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Log Kow

Log Kow is unitless. It is incorrect and confusing for the talk of log Kow to be followed by the solubility of TBT, which is a completely different quantity Science Is My Life (talk) 07:58, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Toxicology

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 August 2022 and 8 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): HL02378 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Chazzidy Harper (talk) 18:02, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Bibliography: Possible Sources to add into the article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:HL02378/Tributyltin/Bibliography?preload=Template%3ADashboard.wikiedu.org_bibliography HL02378 (talk) 20:26, 28 September 2022 (UTC)