- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:55, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
| DYK toolbox |
|---|
Baratuciat
edit... that in Piedmont, cats' testicles were sometimes used for making sweet dessert wines?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Bernice Coppieters
- Comment: April Fools Day hook
Created by Agne27 (talk). Self nominated at 22:46, 30 March 2014 (UTC).
The most important thing for any hook, including those for April Fools' Day, is that they be true. This simply is not. The article says that the name is "similar to" or "derived from" the term used in the local dialect to denote cats' testicles. That is a long way from saying that these grapes are or ever were referred to as "cats' testicles". The article was also created before the date allowed by the rules for April Fools' Day 2015; there might have been some leeway if it was a great hook which was actually true, but that's not the case here. A regular hook should be used instead. It can still get the quirky slot by mentioning the testicles, but in a way which is true. Perhaps something like:- ALT1:
... that grapes whose name may be derived from the local term for cats' testicles are used to make a Piedmont wine which may have an aroma similar to that of a cat's litter box?MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:18, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps I was being too cautious in trying to avoid close paraphrasing by rewriting it in my own words but if you look at this "online source it says "The name means for a local dialect "cats testicles" and probably refers to the berries or grapes form." And the exact line from the Wine Grapes book says "Its strange name supposedly comes from the local dialect meaning 'cat's testicles'." Not knowing the Piedmontese language, and again wanting to avoid close paraphrasing, I used the phrase "similar to" and "derived from" to take a more cautious approach.
- That said, I have no issue with the Alt and moving it back to the regular queue. AgneCheese/Wine 23:38, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps I was being too cautious in trying to avoid close paraphrasing by rewriting it in my own words but if you look at this "online source it says "The name means for a local dialect "cats testicles" and probably refers to the berries or grapes form." And the exact line from the Wine Grapes book says "Its strange name supposedly comes from the local dialect meaning 'cat's testicles'." Not knowing the Piedmontese language, and again wanting to avoid close paraphrasing, I used the phrase "similar to" and "derived from" to take a more cautious approach.
Going with ALT1. Accepting the testicle part of the hook which has an inline citation, and assuming good faith on the wine's odour. The article is long enough and new enough. With the main source not being online, I have been unable to consider close paraphrasing issues. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:19, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
ALT1 says that the wine has the aroma, but the article says that said aroma is characteristic of the grapes and doesn't mention the wine in that context. Here's a suggested ALT2 that combines facts from the original hook and ALT1:
- ALT2:
... that Baratuciat grapes, whose name may be derived from the local term for cats' testicles and that can have an aroma similar to that of a cat's litter box, are used to make sweet dessert wines?
- ALT2:
- I'm not sure whether the first "that" (in "that can have") is needed or can be dispensed with. I'll let the reviewer decide. —BlueMoonset (talk) 15:10, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
- If it is a characteristic of the grape, it is a characteristic of the wine. I could get a little more technical to describe it as a primary aroma, as opposed to a secondary or tertiary aroma, but ideally we want to limit the amount of technical WP:JARGON in articles to keep them more accessible. That said, Alt2 is very wordy and cumbersome. AgneCheese/Wine 17:06, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
- ALT3: ... that the Piemontese wine grape Baratuciat may be named after cats' testicles?
- Makes sense to me; I'm fine with this far less wordy version. One question: the article (and the hooks here) go back and forth between the Italian spelling, Piemonte, and the English, Piedmont. Can we pick one and stick with it in both places? (Does the fact that this is English Wikipedia have any bearing here?) BlueMoonset (talk) 23:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
- Pinging Agne27; would like to have a response before proceeding, since it affects ALT3. I think we're just about there. Thanks. (Striking ALT1 and ALT2 as wordy.) BlueMoonset (talk) 16:31, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
- It looks like in the article we have Piemontese being consistently used as an adjective and Piedmont consistently used as the noun. Both usages are correct and I think as long as we stay consistent, there shouldn't be any confusion. AgneCheese/Wine 14:44, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
ALT3 hook approved; rest of review per Cwmhiraeth above. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:25, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
- It looks like in the article we have Piemontese being consistently used as an adjective and Piedmont consistently used as the noun. Both usages are correct and I think as long as we stay consistent, there shouldn't be any confusion. AgneCheese/Wine 14:44, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
