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Template:Did you know nominations/Dairy in India

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 19:55, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

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Dairy in India

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5x expanded by AleatoryPonderings (talk), SD0001 (talk), Naushervan (talk) and Zindor (talk). Nominated by SD0001 (talk) at 15:09, 21 August 2020 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 05:12, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@Jeromi Mikhael: I think I was QPQ-exempt but now done anyway. SD0001 (talk) 05:09, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael (marhata) 05:12, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I came by for a check. There is still a citation needed tag on the article which needs to be addressed. VincentLUFan (talk) (Kenton!) 11:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
The reference also may not reflect up-to-date information. It dates back to 2017, quite a while ago from 2020. @SD0001:, @Zindor:, @AleatoryPonderings: any fix is much appreciated. VincentLUFan (talk) (Kenton!) 12:05, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
Vincent60030, This source on page 8 (cite added to article) shows India as leading with 186k tons in 2018. Next comes the US with 98k tons. I don't think we have an RS which is more current but given the huge gap in the figures between India and US, I think it's safe to assume that the fact is correct.
Also resolved the citation needed tag. SD0001 (talk) 13:15, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
Alright, restoring tick. VincentLUFan (talk) (Kenton!) 14:45, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Possible alternative hooks, if any if these images look good to the promoter, are:
@AleatoryPonderings: How about picturing a water buffalo instead? That'd be more representative of dairy in India. I found File:Water buffalo calf, India.jpg particularly sweet.
Water buffalo calf, India
Water buffalo calf, India
Possible revision to the hook to factor in the image:
  • ALT3: ... that the dairy industry in India, which is the largest in the world, is largely reliant on buffalo milk (calf pictured)?
SD0001 (talk) 16:12, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
No quarrel from me! Just thought we should consider adding some sort of pic to this, given the hookiness of the hook and importance of the topic. I leave to others which (if any) pic should be used. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 16:14, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Added DYK credit to Naushervan per authorship stats. SD0001 (talk) 12:56, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Is someone going to approve the alt hooks or the image? Vincent60030? Yoninah (talk) 22:23, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Thank you for the ping. I'll give approval to ALT3 since ALT1 and ALT2 are unsuitable. VincentLUFan (talk) (Kenton!) 09:52, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @Vincent60030: I agree with you that ALT3 is the best option. But the sentence verifying the hook fact does not have an inline cite, and the image does not appear in the article. Yoninah (talk) 10:41, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: Hmm, I have AGFed on the inline source, which appeared in the next sentence which I assume cited this sentence. But yes I do agree that the picture needs to be in the article now that I thought. @SD0001: @AleatoryPonderings: need somemore input for the ALT3 issues and of course the fixings. Thank you! VincentLUFan (talk) (Kenton!) 10:53, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @Vincent60030: the inline cite must appear no later than the end of the sentence(s) offering that fact per WP:DYK#Cited hook b. And the image must appear in the article per WP:DYK#Image 3. The image licensing must be checked before applying an approval tick. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 10:57, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
@Vincent60030 and SD0001: I've just added a citation for the claim that water buffalo milk is important, and emailed Yann, who took the picture, as they request on the file page. It is licensed as CC-BY-SA and under the GNU FDL, which I assume is sufficient? We may need to rework the alt hook a bit, since it's somewhat general at the moment and therefore difficult to cite unambiguously. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 13:41, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
For some more specificity in the hook, I propose:
Water buffalo calf, Raisen
Water buffalo calf, Raisen
  • ALT3a: ... that almost half the milk produced in India, whose dairy industry is the largest in the world, comes from water buffaloes (calf pictured)? Sources for buffalo claim: [1] (graph on page 9 of the PDF—thanks Zindor), [2], [3] (page 82); source for "largest in the world" claim (per above): [4] (page 8)
Also, Yann just got back to me via email with an OK for the image, so we're good there I think—it's licensed CC-BY-SA and GFDL. One potential snag is the species—some of the sources cited above do not say "water buffalo" in particular (although that's presumably what's meant), so we could also go with
  • ALT3b: ... that almostnearly half the milk produced in India, whose dairy industry is the largest in the world, comes from buffaloes (calf pictured)?
AleatoryPonderings (talk) 18:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Image licensing looks good and is in the article (clear as well), sources are backed for ALT3b so we'll go with that. Good to go. VincentLUFan (talk) (Kenton!) 09:34, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, everyone (in particular @Vincent60030, Yoninah, and SD0001); I saw that [5] looked a little too close for my comfort to the wording of Alt3b, so I've rephrased. I think this last alt—alt3c—should do it, with the buffalo pic. I also wikilinked milk and India (generic topics usually, but relevant here). Really sorry for dragging this process out—did not mean to inconvenience everyone so much. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 15:17, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

  • @AleatoryPonderings: I disagree. We're trying to get you an image slot but ALT3c is too wordy and sounds like a news report. ALTb is a much better hook. Yoninah (talk) 21:07, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Yoninah, Thanks for your reply. If the paragraph just below the headline in [6] does not look too close in wording to Alt3b to you, I'm good with Alt3b as well. I have de-struck it per your note. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 21:11, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
  • No problem per WP:LIMITED. And we'll change "almost" to "nearly" for good measure. Restoring tick per Vincent60030's review. Yoninah (talk) 21:14, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @AleatoryPonderings: Errgh. The photo is freely licensed but with a copyright notice. What is going on here? Yoninah (talk) 21:18, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: I'm a little out of my depth here. It appears to be licenced under the GFDL, which if I'm looking at it correctly is the same licence that File:Estatua rey Fernando III de Castilla-ret.jpg, the file for today's photo DYK, also uses. Are you referring to … you are requested to use the following next to the image if you reuse this file: © Yann Forget / Wikimedia Commons / CC-BY-SA on the photo description page at Commons? If so, I can email Yann again and ask if it's ok for us to forgo that attribution this time. Otherwise, I think we'll either have to find another photo (which would be a big pain for everyone, I'm sure) or abandon the photo slot. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 21:26, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @AleatoryPonderings: Yes, I'm referring to the Commons page. What I've seen in many other cases is a request by the photographer to credit him for use of the pictures, but never a copyright tag. Yoninah (talk) 21:28, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: I just emailed Yann again to clarify about the copyright notice. Will ping you here once I hear back. Apologies, once again, for all the back-and-forth on this—I certainly don't mean to inconvenience you. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 21:37, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
@Yoninah: I haven't heard back from Yann and I'm reluctant to bother them yet again about the image. I found an alternative—which, IMO, is even more visually striking. It is unambiguously licenced CC-BY-SA 4.0 International. If this is acceptable, I suggest we use this image instead, with the slightly modified hook (ALT3bv2) below. (I just removed "calf" in the "pictured" section since I'm not sure if this is a picture of a calf or not, and altered the caption to conform to where this alternative picture was taken). If not, File:09963 Water buffalo.JPG is also a possibility, but it looks as if it should be cropped before going on the main page and I'm reluctant to do that to an image that's already rated a quality image on Commons. If neither of these options work, I think it's probably best just to abandon the picture slot. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 18:06, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Water buffalo, Payvihir
Water buffalo, Payvihir
  • ALT3bv2: ... that nearly half the milk produced in India, whose dairy industry is the largest in the world, comes from buffaloes (water buffalo pictured)?
  • @Yoninah: We've gone back and forth on the "buffalo"/"water buffalo" question. Most of the sources—e.g., [7] (page 9 of the PDF), our best source—only say "buffalo", even though it's pretty clear that "water buffalo" is meant. I'm not even sure there is any other kind of milk-producing buffalo in India than water buffalo. But strictly speaking I think "buffalo" is the only source-supported statement. As for the image, I leave it up to you. I am happy to crop File:09963 Water buffalo.JPG, if you think that's better; I just don't want to disrupt the file history on Commons (not super sure how things work there). AleatoryPonderings (talk) 18:18, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @AleatoryPonderings: Sorry, I just find it confusing to say comes from buffaloes and then put water buffalo in the caption. To an American, buffalo means buffalo, not water buffalo. Let's just run without the image. Yoninah (talk) 19:38, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
  • @Yoninah: Fair enough—seems like the simplest solution. At least now we've found some more beautiful buffalo pics to put in the article :) AleatoryPonderings (talk) 19:44, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
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