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Template:Did you know nominations/NAFO (group)

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 00:38, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

NAFO (group)

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Created by Volunteer Marek (talk), Kleinpecan (talk), Jengod (talk), and Guerillero (talk). Nominated by Volunteer Marek (talk) at 08:07, 1 September 2022 (UTC).

  • All hooks have issues. Main hook must have a word or two missing as it is incomprehensible. ALT1 is too over-the-top (a subjective judgement) and too generalizing. ALT2's citation link is broken. The Vice article is still up, though, so I did manage to verify it. Overall, all other needs are met but there are deficiencies. Recommend linking Signmyrocket.com with ALT2. I'd approve that. ~ Pbritti (talk) 06:08, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
The "missing word" is on purpose. It's a meme. Not supposed to be grammatically correct. If you'd like, we can put quotation marks around it ("pronounced this nonsense") although that's kind of "explaining a joke".
The "subjectiveness" of ALT1 is straight from the source (pokes fun at the failure of Russian air defences to prevent an attack on Saky air base in Crimea on August 9th
Thanks for pointing out that SIgnmyrocket has an article, I did not know that and I linked it as you suggest.
(Also, I have to do the Q4Q which I'll do shortly) Volunteer Marek 16:58, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
To add a bit, I actually want to withdraw ALT1. "What air defense doing" has become more than just a reference to Crimea or even to air strikes. Volunteer Marek 18:40, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

But if you want a slightly unconventional hook then how about just:

"did you know who pronounced this nonsense?"

Presents as a puzzle and very attention grabbing. Volunteer Marek 18:41, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

To put it into DYK format:

I kinda like it --Guerillero Parlez Moi 10:16, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

I like it too. Volunteer Marek 20:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
I like ALT3, as well. It really is an attention grabber! Radzy0 (talk) 02:09, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Reviewed Court-martial of William T. Colman [1]. Volunteer Marek 20:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Mmmmmm, I'd still go with ALT3. Not sure most people really care what media studies professors (or any professors for that matter) really think. Volunteer Marek 04:41, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
source: https://www.politico.eu/article/nafo-doge-shiba-russia-putin-ukraine-twitter-trolling-social-media-meme/
ALT 4B ... that the Shiba Inu memes of NAFO have been called "an actual tactical event against a nation state"?
my notion is just to give it a *little* context for the totally uninitiated! Cheers all. jengod (talk) 04:46, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
Just a quick note: I'm not sure ALT3 would be allowed to run as a regular hook, since it's without any context. However, I believe it might make a great April's Fools hook – if you can endure to wait that long. –LordPickleII (talk) 09:09, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
That's wait too long of a time. If not the ALT3 (though WP:IAR!) then I'd go with the original. Volunteer Marek 03:54, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Can we please have a decision on this nomination? Thank you. Volunteer Marek 20:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Pinging @Pbritti as the reviewer. –LordPeterII (talk) 18:21, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Nice work. Approve ALT3 and ALT4B, preference to a perhaps silly DYK team member allowing ALT3, as it is far more fun. ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:24, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
"A perhaps silly DYK team member"? Well, that's practically pinging me! ;) ALT3 might be allowed if it had strong article support (see Template:Did you know nominations/Pronunciation of GIF), but I'm not sure the article is quite in shape. Some issues:
  • This article gives quite a bit of WP:DUE weight to Russian propaganda outlets by quoting and citing them directly – can inclusion be justified with reliable secondary sources?
    • This is rather moot, given the first point, but the third and fourth paragraphs of "Russian response" appears to contain WP:OR.
  • This isn't a part of the DYK criteria, but isn't Doge still under copyright? Can a work count as public domain if it's using a copyrighted image without a license?
  • Is Newsweek a reliable source to justify inclusion for its claims? What about Task & Purpose?

I think I'm gonna put this article on hold while we try and work out some of the kinks with this article. This is hilarious, though, cheers! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 23:33, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron: I think all of those are valid complaints. I will do another round of trimming. --Guerillero Parlez Moi 10:47, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
@Guerillero:, @Theleekycauldron: please let me know if anything else is needed. Volunteer Marek 16:01, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
When Guerillero signals they're ready for a second round of reviewing, I'll update my tick – in the meantime, just waiting. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 23:32, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Please take another look, tlc --Guerillero Parlez Moi 12:22, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
@Guerillero: I still see Newsweek and Task & Purpose hanging around – neither seems to be reliable for this article. I'd also question the Modern War Institute. As for the hook, I'm going to ping BlueMoonset as a sanity check – I may slightly lean towards running the hook, but I imagine that someone else would want to pump the brakes. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 22:54, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
theleekycauldron, to answer your ping, my opinion is that ALT3 only works for April Fools; I don't think it works as a regular hook even without the inevitable confusion factor, and I feel sure if promoted it won't survive to make it to the main page (or would be pulled at ERRORS shortly after hitting the main page). If waiting six months for AFDay is out, then go with ALT4B (which I've just edited to more accurately reflect the quote). I've removed one of the remaining Newsweek cites because the article doesn't support the facts just before it; it's a non-primary source for the other (Kinzinger) cite, since the primary cite is of the tweet directly (rather than embedded), but if Newsweek is no longer considered reliable, it should probably be deleted as well. Other unreliable sources should also be removed. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:29, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
Ok, let's go with ALT4B then. I've also removed the last newsweek reference and replaced it with yahoo news (the claim itself is not controversial). Volunteer Marek 18:54, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
I posted a comment at WT:DYK, but in case it is better seen here I would like to point out that this still needs a tick from an uninvolved reviewer before it can be promoted. The last mark indicates more work is needed. Would it be better moved back to the unapproved nominations page? CSJJ104 (talk) 20:23, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
I think the problems have been addressed (with the possible exception of Task and Purpose but I'm not sure why it would be unreliable in this particular instance). Volunteer Marek 04:06, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
Pinging theleekycauldron, to see whether the issues have indeed been addressed and they are ready to tick, or if Task and Purpose is a sticking point (or there's another). Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:22, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
  • - I still like ALT3, but ALT4B is also fine. I'm not sure whether this actually needs another approval, but in case it does, here it is. Radzy0 (talk) 17:36, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
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