- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
Reference issues
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No Love Allowed
edit- ... that according to Stacy-Ann Ellis of Vibe magazine, Rihanna's song, "No Love Allowed" is a "less violent version" of her 2011 single "Man Down"?
Created by Tomica (talk). Self nominated at 18:03, 24 September 2013 (UTC).
Thoroughly written and well-sourced. Impressive work fit for the Main Page. Cheers, ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 08:50, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
The hook is not supported by the sources. The article and hook state it as a fact that "No Love Allowed" is a less-violent version of "Man Down"; in fact, this is a copyvio because it fails to put this in quotes (Stacy-Ann Ellis's review is cited, but that doesn't excuse the absence of quote marks). As this is one reviewer's opinion, not an absolute fact, it needs to be qualified as such in both places. You might want to propose a different hook altogether (though the article must be fixed regardless). BlueMoonset (talk) 04:14, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
- Now you're quoting words that aren't in the Ellis article, both in ALT1 and in the article (thought different words in each). Whether done from carelessness or lack of knowledge on how quoting is supposed to work (or some other reason), it's simply not acceptable. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:44, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
- ALT2 ... that according to Sandra Sperounes of Edmonton Journal, on the song "No Love Allowed", Rihanna plays with her Barbadian accent on the same way she did on her debut 2005 single "Pon de Replay"?
- It is, frankly, inexcusable that after I pointed out that you have misquoted Ellis in the article, you have not fixed the article so she is correctly quoted. If you have time to edit this page, you have time to edit the article, which should be your first priority: accuracy in the encyclopedia is paramount. You can propose a new hook if you want rather than fix ALT1 (I've struck it because it still contains a misquote), but the article must be fixed regardless. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:24, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
New reviewer needed; I think someone with more distance is needed to give a fair assessment. (Note that this does not include Bonkers, who originally passed an unsupported hook, which has since been revised in place.) BlueMoonset (talk) 01:51, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
Second review: Sadly, while this article is a lot more engaging than many album-track articles, it seems that the nominator does not fully appreciate the spirit and letter of WP:RS, WP:MOSQUOTE and the DYK rules. For the original hook, yes the article text has been amended to incorporate the hook, but this claim is cited to an unreliable source (the number of spelling errors in the source suggests that it has not been under any editorial control, and the "about" page on the site doesn't imply any either; it's essentially a blog site). For the ALT2 hook, it falls foul of the same problem that first affected the original and ALT1 - the quote in the hook DOES NOT APPEAR in the article, only in the source. I have not checked all 28 sources in this article, but I do not have confidence from my 30 minutes in this article and a sample of the sources that they are all correctly represented. If this were to go forward it would need a complete point-by-point check and copyedit against all sources to be sure that it is accurate enough to be featured on the main page, with the detailed analysis documented to allow the promoter to have confidence. Unless someone is willing to do this (I estimate about 2 hours to be needed) then this nomination should be closed in the next few days. Baldy Bill (sharpen the razor|see my reflection) 21:34, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
- Excuse me? First of all, watch out your language and the way you talk about my contribution to the article. FYI Vibe magazine is a totally reliable source. And what's wrong with the material from the sources in the article? Are you suggesting I fabricated them? Go on, check them all... you will see, nothing but the truth... — Tomíca(T2ME) 22:20, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
- Reply: Firstly I apologize if my review has offended you, it is certainly not my intention to do so and I have not used any uncivil language. I will retract the part of the comment about appreciating reliable sources, as that was unbalanced given that most of the sources are from respected news sites.
- When I say "it seems" that defines that it is my perception, not an accusation; it does not mean that I am right, however when the DYK rules clearly state that the hook fact must be in the article and it isn't - there is no mention of Rihanna playing with her Barbadian accent or Pon de Replay in the article - that naturally leads me to doubt that the rules have been understood. I have neither stated nor implied that any reference is fabricated, nor that you or anyone else is a bad editor. The DYK rules are quite clear and if the article meets the requirements it gets a tick. Approval or disapproval is subjective, and whilst there are principles detailing what makes for a reliable source, the line between reliable and unreliable is subjective. I have given my reasons for not finding Vibe to be a reliable source, that a blog dashed off and published to the world full of spelling mistakes does not appear to have been written with care or checked before publication; if you or any editor disagree that is fine. The previous contributor - BlueMoonset - has asked for a fresh review which I have spent a considerable amount of time providing. Since you are unhappy with my reviewing ability then in the interest of avoiding unnecessary conflict I will avoid reviewing any other submission by you, or making further comment on this one. If you would like to request a fourth review of the nomination by another willing editor once the problem with ALT2 is fixed, then please feel free to do so by placing {{subst:DYK?again}} below. Baldy Bill (sharpen the razor|see my reflection) 00:29, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
- I think this needs full spotchecks if we're going to show it on the main page. Misrepresenting direct quotes is beyond the pale for me, and it could have been repeated. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:02, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
- I haven't checked it all, but I notice that the Rayner/Toronto Star reference (Critical reference section) actually links to rap-up.com. The next sentence ("still the biggest popstar on the planet") may be close paraphrasing. EricEnfermero HOWDY! 05:44, 16 November 2013 (UTC)