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Template:Did you know nominations/Saraba, Itoshiki Kanashimitachi yo

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:02, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Saraba, Itoshiki Kanashimitachi yo

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  • Comment: I'm a new nominator (0 DYK credits at the moment), I haven't reviewed any articles yet.

Created/expanded by Moscowconnection (talk). Self nom at 14:11, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

  • Article is new enough, long enough, AGF on non-English sources for the referencing of the hook and any concerns of plagiarism. The text says "partly sung in Furbish" while the hook says "sung in Furbish", this should be reconciled. The Release section still needs a reference. I fear that even Japanese or Furbish natives would not understand the piped link here (Why does Wee-Tee-Wee-Tee link to Saraba, Itoshiki Kanashimitachi yo?) So the hook could probably read:
  • ALT1:... that a B-side of "Saraba, Itoshiki Kanashimitachi yo" by Momoiro Clover Z is sung partly in Furbish, the native language of Furbies?
  • --Pgallert (talk) 19:30, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
    1. I've added a reference now. (The link was already present in the External links section, but I didn't think about adding it to the section.) 2. My original nomination said "sung partly", but another editor changed it to the current version cause the editor believed it to be "more impressive" like this. 3. I fixed your alternative to comply with Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Music#Popular_music ("song and single titles should be in quotes"). 4. Could you change your alternative to say "sung partly". I think "sung partly" sounds better than "partly sung". --Moscow Connection (talk) 20:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
    I think the alternative should say "a B-side" instead of "the B-side" cause there are several coupling tracks on the single. --Moscow Connection (talk) 02:50, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
    Changed ALT1 to implement Moscowconnection's suggestions. --Pgallert (talk) 14:24, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
  • One more concern: I see one DYK credit on your user talk page, and currently six preceding nominations (I did not check preparation areas and queues). From my perspective, you need to review somebody else's DYK nomination for this submission. --Pgallert (talk) 19:44, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
    This was my second nomination, I didn't nominate my articles chronologically. I've already reviewed someone else's nominations for my 6th and 7th submissions. --Moscow Connection (talk) 20:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
    I confirm that 2 of the seven submissions carry a review. --Pgallert (talk) 14:24, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
  • I have no more concerns but still like ALT1 better than the original hook. As I suggested ALT1, it would need a different reviewer. --Pgallert (talk) 14:24, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
  • What if I make a section called "Wee-Tee-Wee-Tee" and link the DYK hook to that section? I don't mind adding "partly" if it is necessary, but I think ALT1 doesn't sound interesting. --Moscow Connection (talk) 08:16, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
    Sorry, I forgot to watch this page. DYK nominations are for full articles, not sections, I thus feel this would not be appropriate. I would approve of a hook that contains both titles ("Wee-Tee-Wee-Tee" and "Saraba, Itoshiki Kanashimitachi yo"). --Pgallert (talk) 21:04, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Is a new hook going to be forthcoming, or have we reached an impasse between nominator and reviewer? If an impasse, we could ask for a second opinion on the existing hooks. One thing that occurred to me is that the title track is a television theme song while the "B-side" is an ad song (might the fact that it was an ad song be why the two versions were not included in the Limited edition), which might make for an interesting hook. I have added "partly" to the original hook because "sung in Furbish" is indeed inaccurate when it's Japanese and Furbish. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:55, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
    I think we need a second opinion on the two existing hooks. I think that the original hook is catchy, clear and simple, and it would be a pity to replace it with ALT1, so Pgallert asked for a new review by placing the "DYK?again" template. As I said, I can create a section titled "Wee-Tee-Wee-Tee" in the article. The song wasn't included in all editions to make people who wanted to have all 3 songs and the music video buy 2 CDs. --Moscow Connection (talk) 18:11, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
  • To be clear, Pgallert asked for a review of the ALT1, because as the proposer of ALT1, Pgallert couldn't review it. It wasn't because it was felt that the original hook was better. Also, by DYK rules, you cannot have a bold link in the hook to a section within the article. It's not an option, though you can create that section anyway if it makes sense within the article, and isn't promotional. (What makes that song more notable than the third song on the CD?) But, as you'd like a second opinion on the proposed hooks, I'll put this up for a new review. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:47, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
"Wee-Tee-Wee-Tee" is more notable because it had a long interview and several news articles dedicated to it: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]. To be exact, I don't think "Kuroi Shūmatsu" is notable on its own, while "Wee-Tee-Wee-Tee" is. --Moscow Connection (talk) 22:13, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
  • New reviewer needed, especially with regard to the hook and its proposed alternate. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:47, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
    • Alternatively, if someone proposes an ALT that contains both titles, I would be willing to approve that. --Pgallert (talk) 08:04, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Suggest ALT2: ... that Momoiro Clover Z used Furbish, native language of Furbies, for the hit single "Saraba, Itoshiki Kanashimitachi yo" (B-side "Wee-Tee-Wee-Tee")?
— Sctechlaw (talk)
ALT2 is unfortunately not accurate: the Furbish is in the B-side song only. I've struck it. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:52, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Lol, shows you just how much I don't know about contemporary pop music. Since the B-side appears to be what the hook is referring to, how about
ALT3: ... that Momoiro Clover Z used Furbish, native language of Furbies, in the B-side number of hit single "Saraba, Itoshiki Kanashimitachi yo", "Wee-Tee-Wee-Tee"?
— Sctechlaw (talk) 18:26, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Proposing a hopefully workable ALT to get this moving again:
  • Analog to the discussion of ALT1: Should it be "a B-Side" instead of "the B-Side"? --Pgallert (talk) 05:46, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
I think this alternative is very complicated. The word "used" doesn't sound right. --Moscow Connection (talk) 11:15, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
How is this one? --Moscow Connection (talk) 12:01, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Drop the word "famous" and it could fly. I've struck that word, and have ALT3 and both ALT4s because they had "used", which you object to. (I suppose we could change "used" to "employ" in these ALTs, but I don't think that reduces the overall complexity. ALT5 is simpler and more direct.) BlueMoonset (talk) 14:12, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
I agree with the new ALT5, without the word "famous". --Moscow Connection (talk) 14:17, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
Just that the linked song is not partly in Furbish, a B-side is. "...released a single partly in Furbish"? --Pgallert (talk) 18:03, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
The article discusses the release of the song. I think my hook is well in the spirit of DYK, where the main point is to lure people to the article. Look at the hooks other people are proposing, there's no requirement for the hook to explain all the details. ALT5 is more or less simple. If I add the words "B-side" or "single", they will destroy it. And I bet many people don't know what singles and B-sides are anyway. --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:56, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
At first, I didn't understand you proposed to change the words "released a song sung partly in Furbish" to "released a single partly in Furbish". But I actually think that the hook you proposed is less comprehensible and less factual than ALT5. --Moscow Connection (talk) 00:13, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
I'm not quite sure. Is it really necessary to replace the word "song" with "single", cause I really think some people don't know what a single is. --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:02, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Is it possible to place a request for a new review? Cause, honestly, I like the original hook the most. It's simple and clear. --Moscow Connection (talk) 08:38, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Review still needed on the various hooks, since none have yet been approved. BlueMoonset (talk) 13:56, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
  • To be quite honest I don't like any of the hooks: the relationship between "Wee-Tee-Wee-Tee" and "Saraba" is not immediately clear (in other words, I have issues with the Easter egg), and constructions like "The B-side of ..." are a little offputting. How about something like
ALT7 ... that a release by the Japanese girl group Momoiro Clover Z was partly in Furbish, the native language of Furbies? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:25, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
I think this alternative is good. I would like the hook to be more concise and the word "Furbish" to stand out more, but I'm okay with this alternative, it is clear and comprehensible. --Moscow Connection (talk) 06:17, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
  • We could cut the Japanese girl group — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:30, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
    I think it's better with "the Japanese girl group". What do you think? Do the words make the hook more interesting, or don't they? Actually, if the hook said something about "a song in Furbish", it would be great... But I can't see how it is possible. --Moscow Connection (talk) 06:48, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
    Problem is the song wasn't all in Furbish, so such a hook would be misleading. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:51, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
    I wanted to say "a song partly in Furbish", I forgot... But anyway, I can't think of a hook with the words "a song partly in Furbish". ALT6 is close, but it seems to be worse than your proposal. --Moscow Connection (talk) 12:11, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
    I guess ALT7 would be okay, if Pgallert agrees. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:41, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
    Pgallert agrees. for ALT7. For other ALTs still under discussion, e.g. ALT6, I would like to submit again that, if I understood this correctly, no song on this single is partly in Furbish. One is in Furbish, and the other ones are not. ALT7 is more elegant, anyway, imho. --Pgallert (talk) 12:44, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Pgallert, I'm a bit puzzled by your comment, since the article says quite clearly "The regular edition's B-side "Wee-Tee-Wee-Tee" is sung in Japanese and Furbish", and has done so since before the first DYK review here. If they're using two languages on that song, then it is indeed "partly in Furbish", though there's no clue as to the proportion. Since I can't check sources, I'm AGFing that the Japanese/Furbish mix is true, but have no reason to doubt that it is. Given this, are there any other ALTs that would meet your approval aside from ALT7? BlueMoonset (talk) 14:07, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
    • I'm not sure how I missed that, apologies. The tick stands. --Pgallert (talk) 14:33, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
    • About the proporsion if you wonder: The chorus is in Furbish, with its last line being in Japanese (the last line changes every time). There are also small parts of Furbish elsewhere - many back vocal parts and a couple of lines.--Moscow Connection (talk) 08:21, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
  • On second thought, since Crisco 1492 had issues with all the earlier ALTs, ALT7 it is per Pgallert, and only ALT7. (Let's make the tick easy to see.) BlueMoonset (talk) 14:14, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
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