Inclusion Activist

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Again, welcome! Tails Wx 18:39, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Executive Secretary / Permanent Member

Hi

First, great that you've created that article (Executive Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam).

Secondly, the correct title is "Permanent Member". Both the English language version of Nhan Dan [1] and Vietnam+ [2] use the term "Permanent member". I, therefore, propose to move the article.

Thirdly, great to have another one editing Vietnamese articles. I sometimes feel I'm alone editing them. I'm currently working on an article on the 12th CPV Central Committee [[3]], and I'm currently nominated the 12th Politburo of the Communist Party of Vietnam for WP:FLC (if you want to review it, please do it here).

Keep up the great work! :) TheUzbek (talk) 10:31, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. I will take a look. --Consultant Wiki (talk) 18:33, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

I don't think the formal name of the office is "Permanent Member of the Secretariat of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam".. A quick Google search only gets non-Vietnamese hits (I can't find a single Vietnamese source which refers to the office as such... Not even party regulations). There are, however, hits for the search "Permanent Member of the Communist Party of Vietnam Central Committee's Secretariat"... And this seems to be the official long-form name. [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] Sources are from Vietnam News Agency/Vietnam+, Nhan Dan, Saigon News, the CPV's homepage, the People's Military Newspaper el cetra.

The name "Permanent Member of the Secretariat of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam" is a copy of the Soviet and Chinese naming conventions ala "Secretariat of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union" and "Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam".. This is, however, not the Vietnamese naming convention.--TheUzbek (talk) 19:14, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

The official name of the Secretariat is Secretariat of the Central Committee, hence the long form name of the office should be Permanent Member of the Secretariat of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Vietnam. It looks like in journalistic/press release context, this have been simplified to Permanent Member of the Party Central Committee’s Secretariat.
Interestingly though, the party's regulation simply called this office Comrade Permanent Member of the Secretariat. I'm fine with any of them, but using the apostrophe doesn't look very official to me. Consultant Wiki (talk) 19:31, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

I concur. The article name was based on WP's policy WP:COMMONNAME "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above."

I agree that the official name of the body CPV Secretariat is "Secretariat of the Communist Party of Vietnam", but that doesn't mean that the formal title for Permanent Member is "Permanent Member of the..." For instance, the Chairman of the National Assembly of Vietnam is also the Chairman of the Standing Committee of the National Assembly of Vietnam, but that's not a title any longer.

When I search Google, I get more native hits (Vietnamese media) on "Permanent Member of the Party Central Committee" but more foreign hits on "Permanent Member of the Secretariat". I'm not again the last title.--TheUzbek (talk) 20:58, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

You made a good point. I think the page might be renamed to Permanent Member of the Secretariat (Communist Party of Vietnam) or even Permanent Member of the Secretariat (Vietnam) given this is the most common term referred to in English sources. Then the official name, Permanent Member of the Party Central Committee’s Secretariat, can be clarified in the article lede.

For reference, here's a snapshot of the above term that was used by English-language media:

"...Truong Thi Mai has become the permanent member of the Secretariat, replacing Vo Van Thuong after he became Vietnam’s president."

"Truong Thi Mai picked as permanent member of Party Secretariat"

"Ms. Truong Thi Mai is a permanent member of the Secretariat"

A tweet from a Vietnam-focused journalist: "The standing member of the Secretariat is responsible for its daily activities"

Consultant Wiki (talk) 21:50, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi!

I was wondering if you wanted to nominate the article for WP:DYK

It could be something like "that Trương Thị Mai is the first woman appointed Permanent Member of the Secretariat of the Communist Party of Vietnam?"

You can write whatever you want, but if I were you I would nominate it :) TheUzbek (talk) 07:21, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

I check the criteria and it looks like the article has to be WP:DYKCRIT/New, meaning:

For DYK purposes, an article is considered new if, within the last seven days, the article has been created in mainspace from a redlink or redirect; expanded at least fivefold in terms of its prose portion; promoted to good article status; moved from userspace or draftspace into mainspace; or translated from another Wikipedia.

Consultant Wiki (talk) 18:36, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

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