User talk:Eraserhead1/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

You should see this!

In response to the assassination of Sokratis Giolias, Troktiko has gone offline indefinitely. A sad day for the free world...

I've updated the article. Cwill151 (talk) 05:42, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Welcome to WikiProject Apple Inc.!

Hello Eraserhead1, welcome to WikiProject Apple Inc.! We aim to create and improve articles related to Apple Inc. Feel free to post ideas at the general forums and look at our "how to help" list for things to do. Happy editing! —mono 20:06, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Main Page

The redirect is redundant because our software or something automatically redirects the search phrase "main page" to the Main Page. Now the redirect seems to be irreversible (just try speedy deleting it). Marcus Qwertyus 20:26, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough if that is so. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:27, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

thanks

Thanks for reverting the racist attack on my talk page. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 21:40, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

No problem. Personal attacks aren't acceptable, especially after a warning. I've reported it at WP:AIV. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:45, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

the user is about to violate the 3RR if an admin doesn't block them in time. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 22:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

He has violated the 3RR, and I am about to get off Wikipedia so I don't risk one either (I'm at two reverts), can you help monitor the page from his POV edits, thanks. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 22:39, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Love Parade stampede

Did you want to discuss it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.243.77 (talk) 22:12, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

?

Are you thegreyanomaly's little poodle? Ecko1o1 (talk) 01:00, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Racism isn't acceptable... -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:12, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

{{cn}} on IPv6 packet

I just stumbled over your additions on IPv6 packet, which consisted solely of {{cn}} insertions. The relevant reference is provided in the lead sentence of most sections (reference [1]). Seriously, what is the purpose of tagging articles like this, and later removing information that is completely right, rather than just adding the reference tag yourself? I'm really sick of these destructive "maintaining edits" lately. Feel free to comment. Nageh (talk) 14:01, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Remark: Obviously you did not use these tags to dispute statements but rather to solely point out that additional referencing would be required. For this, there are other templates like {{refimprove}}. Nageh (talk) 14:59, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I added the tags because it was requested that I do so on the articles talk page as part of an informal review for the computing WikiProject. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:02, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I see. So I will forward my complaint to the requester. Thanks for the reply! Nageh (talk) 18:32, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Template

I moved your temmplate to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Muhammad-FAQ-Images. Then, I again moved it to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Muhammad-FAQ-Images. Now, there are two templates. Can you look at them? I made a mistake and I cannot solve it. Kavas (talk) 12:19, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I'll take a look tomorrow or at the weekend. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:22, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Conrad-hilton.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:Conrad-hilton.jpg. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the file description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. J Milburn (talk) 15:53, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Its now done. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:01, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Apple Inc. August 2010 Newsletter

	The iNewsletter/issue 1/august 2010/by mono & dwayne
Project news After several months of collaboration on Macintosh, the article was delisted from featured article status. Last month, WikiProject Apple Inc. quietly launched several new departments (collaboration, outreach and strategy). A new program by the outreach department is preparing to launch a recruiting effort (ORDER). Please take a moment to welcome our new members: Eraserhead1, Leet Sher, and Allmightyduck. Details are being ironed out for a weekly project discussion on IRC. Contact Mono for more information.	The Macintosh task force and iOS task force welcome increased participation. The collaboration on Macintosh has ended, and Apple Inc. will be the next project, after a discussion at the project forums. The project's goal is to promote the article to good-article status. The Apple Inc. Portal just got a facelift; please check it out! Submissions for next month's content should be brought to the portal's talk page.
New articles Trenches (Video Game) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) by GamerGeekGod (talk · contribs) started at 21:26, 3 August 2010 Power Macintosh (second generation) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) by Infodriveway (talk · contribs) started at 20:40, 3 August 2010 Power Macintosh 5000 series (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) by Infodriveway (talk · contribs) started at 19:44, 2 August 2010 Sn0wbreeze (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) by Shinywhiteapple (talk · contribs) started at 09:13, 1 August 2010 Ih8sn0w (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) by Shinywhiteapple (talk · contribs) started at 09:04, 1 August 2010 Doodle Soccer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) by Abbieken888 (talk · contribs) started at 20:01, 31 July 2010 Flightradar24.com (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) by CharlieLima (talk · contribs) started at 14:29, 31 July 2010 Scvngr (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) by Danlev (talk · contribs) started at 21:58, 30 July 2010 Macintosh startup (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) by Airplaneman (talk · contribs) started at 22:05, 29 July 2010 Magic Trackpad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) by Airplaneman (talk · contribs) started at 13:03, 27 July 2010	Featured article Next, Inc. (later Next Computer, Inc. and Next Software, Inc. and stylized as NeXT) was an American computer company headquartered in Redwood City, California, that developed and manufactured a series of computer workstations intended for the higher education and business markets. NeXT was founded in 1985 by Apple Computer co-founder Steve Jobs after his forced resignation from Apple. NeXT introduced the first NeXT Computer in 1988, and the smaller NeXTstation in 1990. Sales of the NeXT computers were relatively limited, with estimates of about 50,000 units shipped in total. Nevertheless, its innovative object-oriented Nextstep operating system and development environment were highly influential.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of Mono at 01:52, 6 August 2010 (UTC).

Kashmir Conflict =

I will try to work on that as well...talk —Preceding undated comment added 10:38, 7 August 2010 (UTC).

July 6 2010 edits to List of metro systems

Don't even bother discussing these changes. The editor is clearly the sockpuppet of a banned user who has repeatedly attempted to evade his block to push his POV edits. Revert them on sight, as he isn't even allowed to edit in the first place.oknazevad (talk) 17:02, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Error in ITN for 2010 Summer Youth Olympics

Hi Eraserhead1, there's an error in the ITN for 2010 Summer Youth Olympics. It states "...3,531 athletes from 205 National Olympic Committees." Should be 204, see explanation here. I will post this too on the errors page. ANGCHENRUI ^Talk♨ 16:42, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm not an admin so I can't solve this. WP:ERRORS is the place for it. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:46, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh I had though you were one since you posted the ITN news on my talk page. Alright, it's already there. Ah, I think I need some caffeine. Thanks, ANGCHENRUI ^Talk♨ 16:58, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

No worries :), I was doing it as a favour for TFOWR as he was confused as to how to do it. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:02, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Just a sidenote, I'm going to propose a change to the ITN news statement - details on participant number and age should go. Somewhat unwieldy too. Regards, ANGCHENRUI ^Talk♨ 17:07, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Micro Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems

The article Micro Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Micro Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems for eventual comments about the article. Well done! Jezhotwells (talk) 19:15, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't really deserve this credit as I just nominated the article - User:Swtpc6800 did the hard work on this one. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:05, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

The removal of the 'iTouch' nickname in the iPod Touch article

Hi Eraserhead1

I was reading the discussion about the iTouch name in the iPod Touch article and I couldn't believe that mere contribution caused a lot of controversy. I have Googled the word "iTouch" and it does appear in several websites. Like I said in the aforementioned discussion I will refrain from putting the iTouch name back. Do you think it should be in the article? Also I apologise for my edit warring on the iPad article. Diamondblade2008 (talk) 19:51, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I personally think iTouch should be in the article, if enough people agree maybe its worth having an RFC. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:13, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Yea thats fine by me. Shall I add it back to the article or should an RFC be done? Just thought I check with you first Diamondblade2008 (talk) 18:43, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

I would discuss it first to be honest. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:06, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

I support opening an RFC in order to gain consensus on this matter riffic (talk) 15:55, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

I think its probably worthwhile TBH. I'll do sometime next week if I'm not beaten to it. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:26, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yea that will be great if you can. I promise never to edit war again. Diamondblade2008 (talk) 21:36, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Don't worry about it :). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:38, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't really think I care enough on this. Sorry :o. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:02, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, I lost interest in the iPod Touch/iPad articles as well. Im too involved in other articles to even give a though. Diamondblade2008 (talk) 18:49, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

What do you recommend?

Hello Eraserhead1,

Please advise me how to improve Kourosh Zolani’s article while few editors revert my edits constantly (see the page history). I understand that the final decision to keep or to delete the article is based on the article itself, but the article will not have a chance if some editors keep reverting the edits instead of improving the article.

1. I think this version was a fine version before being reverted. However, I still could improve it, if I had given a chance.

2. I added new references for radio interview and the online radio stations here which were also removed.

3. Plus, I found the English translation of the article in Iran Newspaper. Also, here is the link to the article in Farsi. I know the translation is not good quality but that is all I have for now. A couple of users wasted most of my time over the last few days, instead of leaving me some time to make a decent translation. I still have not figured out how to add this translation to the article as a footnote. Even if I add it to the page, my concern is that it will be removed right away.

What do you recommend me to do? Does it even worth it to continue editing this page, if my edits keep being removed? I am afraid, this page with my edits will not have a chance to be reviewed by the administrators who make the final decision. Thank you,Sozlati (talk) 23:41, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

I would lose the online radio stuff as that is more disputable. The most important thing is for there to be some reliable sources and as long as they meet the criteria of WP:RS the language is irrelevant (per WP:NONENG). I am more than happy to argue that point on the talk page - though I no nothing about the subject so can do no more than that.

On the article itself maybe give it a break of a few days, if the other editors don't argue with me over the language I'll readd most of your stuff then. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:52, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I will do! Couple of the users revert everything that I add on daily basis. Should I just stop editing? Sozlati (talk) 00:06, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I suggest you add the quotes as you can from the poor translation to the talk page, and ideally add them to the citations in the article itself. I'm going to re-add the content to the article so its easier for you to add the quotes as is apparently required. If it has been removed again I suggest you add the quotes to the talk page or here. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:30, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I've added the English translation of that article as a whole to the talk page. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:09, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

It looks like the issues have been largely solved, I think you can continue to edit the article. I suggest you provide a date of birth and other details like that if you can. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 13:54, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help. I look for the date of birth. Sozlati (talk) 18:47, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I worked on the translation and I think it is more understandable now. As you suggested, I am looking for more details and gradually add them to the talk page. However, I will not add them to the article because of the sensitively of a couple of editors to my edits. I appreciate if you and other senior editors add these pieces of information to the article, if you find them useful. Thank you. Sozlati (talk) 21:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

New Comment. Hello again, I just wanted to let you know that we added some new edits to Kourosh Zolani’s article and the page looked very good before an editor turned it again to the mess that it is now. Is there any policy in WP to stop users who make unconstructive changes to a page? Thank you for helping us with editing this article. Sozlati (talk) 06:23, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

I've taken a look at that edit and it looks OK to me, you'll have to 'ignore' the extra tags from the prose (though they should help you identify problems in the article). The prose has largely been left alone or improved. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:01, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi Eraserhead

About the christianity in India page, we should not put wild claims like St. Thomas converted Kings and tribes of North India to Christianity based on no claims. In fact in Muslims of South Asia and Middle-east, there is a popular belief that ENGLAND's ruler had converted to Islam during 7th century. Fables like St. Thomas Acts are not verified and accepted by most Christians. If you visit St. Thomas article, you will see that he has been linked with one or another king from Russia to India throughout middle-east. Also, the article itself has links to disprove these fables Eastern Christian writings state that Christianity was introduced to India by Thomas the Apostle, who visited Muziris in Kerala in 52 CE to proselytize amongst Kerala's Jewish settlements; however this is widely disputed due to lack of credible historical evidence. I hope you uphold the standards of wikipedia. thanks note: such wild claims cause much pain to non-Christians of India. Please dont play with our history and culture. We should learn to respect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Varanwal (talk • contribs) 26 April 2010 20:04 (UTC)

This should be archived soon. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:36, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:ITNC listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Wikipedia talk:ITNC. Since you had some involvement with the Wikipedia talk:ITNC redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Bsherr (talk) 22:52, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

• Can I speedy G7 the redirect at Wikipedia:ITNC too? It also has nearly no links. --Bsherr (talk) 05:10, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

No, that one is more useful - as otherwise getting to the ITN candidates page is a pain and it has hits. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 07:15, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I'd just point out the existence of the documented shortcut WP:ITN/C. Does that change your mind? --Bsherr (talk) 15:12, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm afraid not, ITNC without the slash is easier to type. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Ok. --Bsherr (talk) 18:05, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Need Emergency Help

I apologize for bothering you several times. A user has removed significant part of our contributions to Kourosh Zolani discussion deletion. Based on WP rules can a user delete others contributions to such discussion? Here is the link to what this user has deleted. Please advise me what to do? Sozlati (talk) 18:40, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

This appears to have been done. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:51, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, thank you! Sozlati (talk) 19:12, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Hello again, I just realized that the same user had removed our contributions before. Here is the link to another incident on August 15. Is there a way to bring back the comments that were removed on August 15? Sozlati (talk) 21:12, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

That appears to have been done. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:39, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

A question

Would you mind checking my edit on Kourosh Zolani's article lead section? I added three examples of his compositions. I want to be sure that they are OK. Thank you Thomasshane (talk) 01:40, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

It looks fine. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:49, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you

Hi Eraserhead1, I wanted to sincerely thank you for your attempts to edit Kourosh Zolani’s article and your contributions to the AfD discussion. This article would not have had a chance to stay without your edits. You are a great editor and a truthful person. Good luck with all your WP projects. Thank you again, Sozlati (talk) 16:25, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Vanburgh talk

Didn't check the archive, no. Your edit summary said something like "nothing of value here". DionysosProteus (talk) 00:41, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Pending changes/Vote comment

As you commented in the pending closure discussion I am notifying you that the Wikipedia:Pending changes/Vote comment is now open and will be for two weeks, discussion as required can continue on the talkpage. Thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 00:06, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Re:Fox News Channel Controversies

Hello, Eraserhead1. You have new messages at Fastily's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

-FASTILY ^(TALK) 21:28, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

 Done -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:40, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Reversion of my edit

Hi. I just found that you had reverted my edit to previous version. I cannot figure out what the problem is with my edit. Could you please show me? Thanks. Wo.luren (talk) 22:40, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I think I pressed the wrong button by accident. Sorry about that. I've reverted my reversion too so it now displays your edit. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:43, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

That is fine. Thanks for your prompt reply:) Wo.luren (talk) 22:54, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Dinsmore Golf Course

What do you mean move request? The title should be capitalized, just like most of the golf courses are. Tinton5 (talk) 00:18, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Languages of Austria

Hi! I heard you stating that Austrians speak German as their mother tongue. As an Austrian (Viennese to be exact), I can tell you that this is false. The OFFICIAL language is German (Austrian German to be exact), used in all official publications and announcements, in most media and is taught in schools, where it's expected to be spoken, and most Austrians (including all youth, unless really poorly educated) can speak it, but you don't go to Austria and hear the natives speaking Deutsch to each other, never. Instead, our native language (except in Vorarlberg, where Alemannic is spoken) is Austro-Bavarian, spoken with various dialects. And contrary to popular belief, Austro-Bavarian is NOT German (it is A German language, but not THE German language, since THE German language is a Central German language and Austro-Bavarian an Upper German language). Especially in larger cities, though, (Austrian) German is a second language to almost all of us; however, don't go to the Alps in the countryside of the Tyrol and expect a lady in her 70:s enjoying the beautiful mountains to speak a word of German or even understand it. The latter mostly applies to southern (and southwestern) Austria, where Southern Austro-Bavarian dialects are spoken. You know what I'm saying? The statement that German is the mother tongue of the Austrians is simply a misconception (even though Austro-Bavarian-speakers are listed as German-speakers in the statistics).

Sincerely /Andreas Schwarzenegger —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.234.65.69 (talk) 15:04, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Have you got a reliable source to back this up? If so I apologise and feel free to "undo" my edit via the history tab. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 15:59, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Source? Ok, here's the source: I am a lifelong average Viennese bloke and have never spoken or heard German amongst ourselves other than mixing in some German expressions in daily speech, and trying to speak German to for example my grandparents (on my both parents' side) who are 75-80 years old is no less foolish than trying to speak Swahili, trust me. Aside from formal contexts, we only use German when speaking to tourists, immigrants or minorities, as well as in Germany, Vorarlberg and "German"-speaking Switzerland, plus in Sweden and Norway for my part due to the similarity between Swedish, Norwegian and German. Isn't that enough of a source? If not, I can refer to the fact that Austria's population is 8.383.784 people, of which 88 % (7.377.730) speak A German language as their mother tongue. Of these 7 million (German Wikipedia) speak Austro-Bavarian, which equals to 94.9 %. Also, you've got to take away the population of Vorarlberg (where Alemannic is spoken) and those who really speak German as their mother tongue (German immigrants). If these two facts aren't enough, I'm not sure I can help you.

Sincerely /Andreas Schwarzenegger —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.234.65.69 (talk) 17:08, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but per one of the key Wikipedian policies verifiability content included here has to be backed up by a reliable source. Of note this source doesn't have to be written in English if no source in English is available. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:13, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Did you read the official statistics further down (bold style)?

/Andreas Schwarzenegger —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.234.65.69 (talk) 17:16, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

For the content to be included you'll need a link or another reference to the government publication in question which published those statistics - or another reliable source commenting on them. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:19, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to to look for a reliable source confirming German Wikipedia's statements /Andreas Schwarzenegger -- 90.234.65.69 <talk> 17:23, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Cool, feel free to bring it up here or on the talk page for the article when you've found one - or just be bold and add it to the article directly :). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:28, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi! Here's the link [1] (sadly in German only). The 8:th lead paragraph says: Seven million Austrians speak Austro-Bavarian, says the "Förderverein Bairische Sprache und Dialekte", which is an association working for the continued flourishing of the Austro-Bavarian language mostly in Bavaria, where German is taking over as the majority language, and has already done so in Munich and partially in other large cities. Note, this IS from the website of the association/Andreas Schwarzenegger -- 90.234.65.69 <talk> 17:19, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't think that meets the reliable source criteria. Do you have something in a newspaper? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Ah, a reliable source at last: the Ethnologue (on External links on the Engllish-language artcle "Austro-Bavarian"). This fulfills the fact in bold. /Andreas Schwarzenegger -- 90.234.65.69 <talk> 18:16, 23 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.233.6.118 (talk)

Cool. Btw I'm going to copy this over to the articles talk page. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:55, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

ITN for Francisco Varallo

--Mkativerata (talk) 21:57, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

ITN for 2010 Bratislava shootings

--HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:49, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

File:IPad Home.png listed for deletion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:IPad Home.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. WOSlinker (talk) 11:54, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use File:IPad Home.png

Thanks for uploading File:IPad Home.png. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information or which could be adequately covered with text alone. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

1. Go to the media description page and edit it to add {{di-replaceable fair use disputed}}, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
2. On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 12:22, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

ITN for Bauchi prison break

--Nice work. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:16, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Tablet PC consensus

Please read the discussion of the Tablet PC move request to Tablet Computer. You'll find the official result was:

No consensus for move

That means you should not relocate sections from the Tablet PC article to the Tablet Computer article. Vyx (talk) 21:51, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

The move request was conducted on 15 February 2010 which was before the iPad was released. And the iPad has changed the whole tablet PC/computer/whatever market.

That's not true, the move request was conducted because of the imminent release of the iPad. Furthermore and more importantly, I am not aware why an encyclopedia should change its technical content because of market fluctuations (of which I do not agree with your point but it is an entirely different matter anyway). The article is not about the market but Tablet PCs. If what you think was true, the HD DVD article should have been merged with Blu-ray. And of course the Tablet PC is not a defunct computer type, it is thriving with dozens of new models and operating systems being produced and upgraded each month. Vyx (talk) 18:51, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Additionally since the RFC tablet computer has become a pretty good article which covers all tablet computers. It is really just you sticking to this name. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:55, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Computer also covers all computers. Try ripping sections from Personal Computer to Computer however, and you'd find other editors sticking to names as well. Vyx (talk) 18:51, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Misclick?

[2] ? –xeno^talk 15:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Re "damn mobiles" - I know the feeling. This is why I have a separate account for that =) –xeno^talk 15:20, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Maybe that's the way forward :). There's no chance of disabling rollback on mobiles? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 15:22, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm... Maybe with some really clever javascript. But most mobiles don't have good (or any) js support, so... –xeno^talk 15:23, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Well if Wikipedia supports Jquery it should be relatively simple but should still be doable. I'll take a look. Fortunately the iPhone does support JavaScript :). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:02, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Hiding them is simple with .css, so perhaps you could hide them by default and use .js to unhide them when on an unmobile? –xeno^talk 16:07, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll take a look at the weekend. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:29, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

iTablet prod/afd

No problem. Better safe than sorry. --TS 22:22, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Pending changes/Straw poll on interim usage

Hi. As you recently commented in the straw poll regarding the ongoing usage and trial of Pending changes, this is to notify you that there is an interim straw poll with regard to keeping the tool switched on or switching it off while improvements are worked on and due for release on November 9, 2010. This new poll is only in regard to this issue and sets no precedent for any future usage. Your input on this issue is greatly appreciated. Off2riorob (talk) 23:33, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

iPad

See Reisio's talk page.

• From Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Terrillja reported by User:Reisio (Result: protected, warnings all around): Next time you see an edit war in progress, please take a moment to begin a discussion at the relevant talkpage or report it to the relevant noticeboard rather than joining in. In this particular case, there was precious little discussion and nothing resembling the firm consensus among involved editors that might justify double reverting. Bold, revert, discuss only works if someone, it does not really matter who, initiates the third step. Thank you, - 2/0 (cont.) 20:04, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Fair point, sorry about that. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:27, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Tablet PC

Just shot up. No-one really means iPads when he talks about Tablet PCs. And no-one searches for Tablet PC if he needs iPad info. Well, and "Microsoft Tablet PC" not even exists, never did. --Jhartmann (talk) 17:16, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Why are you mentioning this here rather than at the relevant talk page? And why have you requested speedy deletion of a substantial article? If you wish for it to be deleted a WP:AfD request is the way to go. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 17:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, if you like it so much - you asked for how to rename it. See here: Talk:Microsoft Tablet PC#renaming and User talk:Jhartmann#September 2010 --Jhartmann (talk) 19:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

? Why a request if we can agree on the term? --Jhartmann (talk) 19:07, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Please have a look at this

I hope this will allow us to focus on more important issues. Vyx (talk) 19:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Computing Assessment requests

Thanks for your suggestion. I am quiet a new user of wikipedia as writer: so I think I lack the experience to evaluate other people work. I am not an English native speaker, so I cannot improve the grammar/language issues. I am proposing you the following: review yourself an article and I review myself the same article and then we can discuss about different point of view. Or let me know an article you reviewed and I will look at your comments and try to learn how to review. Can you show me the most relevant help pages about reviewing? Thanks a lot --Pastore Italy (talk) 12:42, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Erice statement

A tag has been placed on Erice statement requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about an organization or company, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for organizations and companies. You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hang on}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag - if no such tag exists then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hangon tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Toddst1 (talk) 20:11, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

review of Stuxnet

Hi, I see you performed an assessment of Stuxnet. What do you think needs to be improved before the article goes for FA review? Sephiroth storm (talk) 21:10, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I think you need to see how the GA review goes first :). I think for that it needs an infobox and ideally some pictures - its quite a challenging article to review due to the subject, so I suggest asking your GA reviewer for some advice - in my view its still a B class article so there will be some work to do (which the reviewer should point out) to get it to GA standard. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:23, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Update of Apple's financial data for fiscal year 2010

Hi, I've seen that you've edited the semi-protected article Apple Inc. several times, so i thought I would bring this to your attention:

It seems that there is no one willing or able to change Apple's financial data for fiscal year 2010. Since the 2010 10-K Annual Report (filed October 25, 2010) is out now, it really would be appropriate to update the data. There is a big difference between 42.91 billion (for 2009) and 65,225 billion (for 2010) revenue. It means that Apple's revenue grew 52% in just 1 year. This is another company than before! And its revenue has become even bigger than that of Microsoft for the fiscal year 2010 (62.48b)! Here are the important figures: Revenue: 65,225 billion; Operating income: 22,971 billion; Profit: 14,013 billion (70% higher than 2009!); Total assets: 75,183 billion; Total equity: 47,791 billion; Employees: 46,600 full-time equivalent employees and an additional 2,800 full-time equivalent temporary employees and contractors. Source: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9Njc1MzN8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1 --85.1.134.247 (talk) 19:24, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll take a look when I have time. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:46, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Please help with the Apple Inc. collaboration

Monomium (talk) 03:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

tablet vs laptop pros

Hi, any reason why you have removed the Pros & Cons? we are organization that support the tablet pc in all aspects (technical , marketing , reviews , usability ...) our organization is none profit and try to bring different angles of tablet pc world. we are working with academic institutes to support our mission. we thought the pros and cons aspect was missing from the wiki and it too big to be inside (and yes we support homosexual marriages) please advice ? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.253.180.193 (talk) 10:42, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

I appreciated your message. Thankyou, and I apologise for being crude with my comment. Nightw 03:00, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Democrat Party (phrase listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Democrat Party (phrase. Since you had some involvement with the Democrat Party (phrase redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Loonymonkey (talk) 02:32, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Given I missed this and it has been speedily deleted I have contacted the deleting admin. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:19, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

December 2010

The source is on the same page. Please see Top goalscorers, Cristiano Ronaldo has only 14 goals. Regards!!!

Sorry it's was my mistake!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dictuser (talk • contribs) 09:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

The second table uses a different method of calculating the goalscorer :). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:48, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for the advice you gave me on my talk page re: the C shell article. I have a little more there. I think you're right! Msnicki (talk) 22:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

No worries :). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:22, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

SD notice

I nominated 2010 Spanish air traffic controller strike for maintenance speedy deletion (CSD G6). Another article covering the event was created, and I feel it's slightly better developed than the one you created but don't have any more time to develop. Rather than redirecting, I nominated it for deletion so 2010 Spanish air traffic controllers strike can be moved to its location. Sorry to do this but one's got to go, right? Swarm ^X 07:03, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

That's cool. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:53, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion

Perhaps it would be helpful if you specified what it is you were expecting in the case of vandals that appear to be repeat offenders under other accounts. Your current comment to Rd232 gave me the impression that you're saying YM is banning vandals without any warnings all the time and that it is wrong; I don't see why that would be wrong in the case of repeat vandals. Perhaps you were wanting him, a functionary team member, to specify that it is a repeat vandal? Ncmvocalist (talk) 19:30, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I've taken a look through YellowMonkey and YellowAssessementMonkey's talk page edits back until the start of 2010 and the beginning of April 2010 respectively. In that search I have found 3 warning made to new users about vandalism - 1, 2 and 3. I very much doubt that out of the other 100 odd users YellowMonkey has blocked for vandalism since 1 April 2010 were all socks - even those labelled 'vandalism' on the block-log. Especially as a number don't have any talk page edits at all - source.

This has clearly been a widespread issue. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:30, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

RE: Reversion of removal of 'Windows Mobile' from a title in Smartphone

Hi, about the edit by the IP user (anon), he had been reverted several times for vandalism for rollback feature, for which is considered as level 1 vandalism according Huggle. That is why I decided to revert these changes by preventing the article is potentially damaged. And about the edit sumary, the features of rollback can't change this, we only have a generic summary for all reverted editions, according to WP:ROLLBACK. D6h ^{What's on your mind?} 20:06, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Amazon Rainforest.

Oh wow, clearly I didn't know what I was doing back then, I'm surprised that was left protected for so long. Sorry about the trouble, I've unprotected it. Cheers, · Andonic ^contact 01:36, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

User:Pmanderson

Now he is going completely crazy. I would assume that If he goes farther than he should theoretically be Blocked from editing. LutherVinci (talk) 22:14, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Well maybe, but I hope he'll come round :). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:30, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I see you spoke to Arthur Rubin, which is good, but I don't think this matter is at all silly. These articles on history make up the whole of how history is presented on Wikipedia. Making each opinion equal in proportion in this article (and all related articles) is crucial.LutherVinci (talk) 14:47, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree that having this point is totally reasonable, what's ridiculous is if adding a sentence to a myths and legends section (which is a fair compromise) needs further dispute resolution (which is what I meant by my earlier comment :)). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:45, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

For the same reasons Arthur Rubin gave you:

• LutherVinci's refusal to acknowledge that there is more than one system of Biblical chronology is jarring
• These pages should deal with consensus events: not mythology whether Hebrew, Mayan, Indian, Egyptian, or Sumerian; if we were writing an encyclopedia in 1648, the birth of Seth would be a consensus event - but not now; it belongs under Biblical chronology. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:37, 7 December 2010 (UTC)Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Then why is the birth of Krishna on these pages? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Because nobody has removed it. Please do so. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:26, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

This is the train of thought of Pmanderson, which has no place here on Wikipedia:

Either:

1) Only events with large amounts of evidence should remain in these articles.

Or 2) only events with clearly indicated dates should remain in these articles.

He cannot seem to decide between these two points. If the first point favors his situation, then:

Step 2: We cannot allow events without scientific consensus to remain on these articles.

This statement has multiple issues:

1)Incorrect Because since some of these things are religious events. Therefore, although most scientists would disagree, the members of these religions do affirm these events happened, so to say that they did not happen is a POV against them.

2)Incorrect. What is consensus? The only people against these events is him and Arthur. There are little or no refs on these articles as there is, yet he still holds faith that there is scientific consensus for some events and not others.

3)Impractical Because there are already myriads of legendary figures mentioned on Wikipedia, it would be frivolous to go through them all.

4)Unsourced, There is no policy or precedence on Wikipedia to remove all myths and legends, thus he is making up his own rules.

If the second point favors his situation, then:

Step 2: No one can agree on Biblical Chronology, therefore the Bible should be taken out. Other fiction which gives more exact dates should be included instead.

This statement also has multiple issues:

1) Unsourced. He has thus far not given any solid evidence to suggest that conflicting Biblical Chronologies are actually excepted by modern creationists.

2) Paradoxical Because we would be including fiction and excluding religion.

3) Unsourced Because he is generating, not interpreting, what would be an "undisputed" date.

Most recently, he has threatened that I would be blocked if I attempt to enact a consensus [3].LutherVinci (talk) 21:23, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

As usual, this is a falsehood; as the edit linked says, he will be blocked if he continues to revert, having already reached 3RR. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:26, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I apologise for my part in this confusion, but I suggest we take this discussion to Talk:4th Millennium BC. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:32, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I see no purpose to further discussion with someone so desperate that he can claim that Newton lived before Ussher. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I think if the date cannot be pinned down by Biblical scholars that is a good argument not to include it. Possibly including it in the appropriate millennial article would be appropriate however. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Please read this and reconsider :-).LutherVinci (talk) 16:10, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

That's rubbish. Ussher Chronology is the only chronology excepted nowadays. I know Newton lived after Ussher, I was generalizing. Newton's date for creation was simply a rounding of Ussher, as is all creationist scientists after him, he being the first. Besides, this user gives little or no references that there is any dispute, which inclines me to not discuss much further. Because, however, I am not afraid to give refs, here is a small sample:

• Unlocking the Mysteries of Creation: the explorers guide to the awesome works of God
• The Wall Chart of World History: From earliest times to the Present
• Answers in Genesis
• Bible history: containing the most remarkable events of the Old and New Testament

Stop believing what this user says, he is obviously moved by heavy POV, capable only of believing what he thinks he knows, and reverting all other edits.

However, the article (after I was sure the consensus was in my favor), is now protected against me, so I guess No one agrees with me after all.LutherVinci (talk) 00:50, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I have made a reply on the discussion page for 4th millennium BC. LutherVinci (talk) 15:39, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry I don't know really what I can do to help :(. I don't know enough about the topic I'm afraid. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:12, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

iPad 2

As long as the iPad 2 article exists we need to disambiguate. I have a draft ready in my my draftspace for the iPad (original) but I can't move it because of a bug in the system. It isn't necessary for the iPad 2 to be released. Marcus Qwertyus 22:37, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Fair point. I'm self-reverting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:39, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Marcus Qwertyus 22:40, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Christmas Card

File:Wikisanta-no motto.png

Merry Christmas At this festive time, I would like to say a very special thank you to my fellow editors, and take the time to wish you and your loved ones a very Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year. And, in case you can't wait until the big day, I've left you each three special presents, click to unwrap :) Acather96 (talk) 10:10, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

File:Green and Yellow Present.gif

File:Yellow and Red present.gif

File:Blue and Red Present.gif

Americans and cricket

Sometimes, I wonder why we bother.... ;-) Happy Xmas/NY to you, by the way. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:14, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks :). I'm not even a big fan of cricket to be honest, but it should go up. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:19, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Happy, happy

Happy New Year, and all the best to you and yours! (from warm Cuba) Bzuk (talk) 08:28, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

How to warn editors who go abusive!

Hello,

I saw that you gave rating to Kannada article. Thanks for doing that. I have seen that someone from IP address shown below is posting abusive comments for kannada and telugu languages articles and is using his own research to substantiate it. It may de deeply offensive since it can trigger hatredness among languages. I have tried to replay to him and removed some sections. I dont know how to warn them not to do so. Please see that something can be done in this case since I cannot do it all the time. What is the normal procedure in such cases. Can I even say about such things here? I dont know. Bring it to the attention of admins if possible. The said IP address is: {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/80.195.13.109 }

Thanks with regards. 27.57.113.210 (talk) 14:22, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

DFID and Reliable Sources

Eraserhead1,

You say that the Daily Mail and the Daily Express are not reliable sources,

First of all: Can you prove to me that they definitively are not, as I have not been able to find anything in Wikipedia that clarifies your stance.

Secondly: You state that the BBC is a reliable source when interestingly enough the Director General, Mark Thompson, has publicly admitted that the BBC has recently been guilty of strong left-wing bias and has purposefully not reported on certain sensitive topics such as immigration etc.

Even if you stand by your assertion that such news outlets are not in fact Reliable Sources, then I still see no problem with using them in a section entitled "Controversy". For example, if a famous celebrity had naked photos posted of them and this story was reported by the Daily Mail for example, then I assume it would be OK to reference the Daily Mail then. How is this situation any different?

The Daily Mail article referenced included a quote from an MP, do you think that they just made such a quote up, does the Daily Mail in fact have a history of deliberately and grossly misquoting public officials ?

As much as it seems that you would like to not have the Daily Mail recognized as a reliable source, you can certainly not argue that everything or even most things within its pages has been falsified, is slanderous or has a noticeable bias.

I understand that items that I had included in the Controversy section were ones that only criticized the DFID. However, how about instead of just deleting the whole section that I had written, why don't you attempt to find some items that praise the DFID and defends the high salaries of it's top employees. As much as you try to make it look like you are just upholding Wikipedias rules, I strongly suspect that you are in fact just irritated that I have added something that criticizes the DFID so strongly. To prove that this is not the case, I think it would be a good idea for you to find reliable sources for the section you deleted and add them as references instead so that it can be re-instated.

Milesstern (talk) 00:10, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

For further discussion see Talk:Department for International Development. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:50, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Wiki is sometimes fulfilling, but sometimes very aggravating! P.S. When it a topic I have an ounce of knowledge about, I fix citation and similar issues with articles, and then remove the tags. See Iceland spar for an example, and Sunstone (medieval) for couple of recent examples. I just don't know anything about the page in question, and ran across it somehow. I don't "drive by" tag or untag. JoeSperrazza (talk) 22:47, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

It is definitely annoying for someone to remove a tag multiple times from an article like that where it is so clearly required - but sometimes people aren't perfect <shrug>. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:52, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

The question is, how do we flag the article so someone will know to make it better? I know nothing about the subject, so me trying to make the article better might actually make it worse. As a related question, isn't there someplace on Wiki to have policy discussions? I think the editor's point that "age" be considered a factor when removing a tag is worthy of discussion (I disagree, but I do see his point). Where is that place, and would it do any good to have such a discussion? Putting aside one editor, the issue is how things work in general. JoeSperrazza (talk) 22:57, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Probably WP:VILLAGEPUMP. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:58, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Maturity

Please, are you going to ignore a reasonable comment just because you didn't like the way it was said? By doing what you did, you didn't solve any problems, you just left them in place because of some minor petty issue. By the way, could you just tell me what exactly makes the word "chink" racist? Is it not the simple fact that you want it to be - I never said it was racist, never intended it to be (if you don't agree, just point out exactly where I said the Chinese were inferior beings), and was just interpreting an observation. In fact the choice of word was completely pertinent, since, judging by your edit summary, you realised who I was talking about. In light of all this, I have restored will re-restore my comment. 90.37.124.23 (talk) 15:00, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Frankly in my culture the term is racist, and I don't understand why there was a need to use a derogatory word in this case when there are plenty of better ones to use instead.

With regards to the issue you've raised I'm not really interested either way. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:31, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Fine, in the future just change the word to Chinese (or whatever else may be relevant), with a little hidden comment explaining the change. I must say I don't like the way there are so many explicatives over Wikipedia, I'd prefer them to be hidden. Regards, 90.37.124.23 (talk) 17:34, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I apologise for reverting your edit for a second time as the language was then acceptable. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:31, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Clean up

FYI, your placement of a general cleanup tag on Metropolitan District Railway is under discussion since the tag is up for deletion - see right above the arbitrary break. Whether you're for the deletion or not (or neither), I'm guessing it would help if you provided some insight as to why you tagged the article using {{Cleanup}}. Thanks. --Jtalledo (talk) 00:57, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Responded at the time there. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:44, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Paradise Community Church

Why would you tell the IP that they should wait to make their edit until the end of the semi-protection? The whole point of the "edit semi-protected" template is for legitimate users to be able to request changes to articles that we've had to lock because of vandalism. It seems awfully unfriendly to me to tell them that they're just out of luck for a few weeks. Qwyrxian (talk) 07:12, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

I made the comment because I personally don't understand what needs changing, and I can't get the page unprotected. However if you can help great :). -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:09, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Happy 10th Anniversary of Wikipedia!

File:Verre de whisky.jpg

Happy 10th anniversary of Wikipedia!

HeyBzuk (contribs) has bought you a whisky! Sharing a whisky is a great way to bond with other editors after a day of hard work. Spread the WikiLove by buying someone else a whisky, whether it be someone with whom you have collaborated or had disagreements. Enjoy!

Spread the good cheer and camaraderie by adding {{subst:User:HJ Mitchell/WikiScotch}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Bzuk (talk) 16:26, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

re: IP block

Hello - thanks for the message. The IP is an open proxy - it allows someone to hide their identity while using the Internet. This particular IP is wide open on just about every port, including 80 and 443, which are used for HTTP.

There's no restriction against reading Wikipedia for them, but we do not allow open proxies, including Tor, to edit Wikipedia - we block them on sight. Even admins can't edit through Tor. It's a hard and fast rule, no exceptions, period.

There may be instances of good edits from OPs, but the damage they can do is far greater. We've got a guy right now who is harassing two good editors every day as often as he can. (I hope he doesn't stop, because every IP he edits from (so far) is an open proxy, and he's helping us block a lot of them.) Instead of blocking them indefinitely, we block them for very long periods of months or years.

If you see a block reason of {{blocked proxy}}, we've manually confirmed that the IP is an open proxy or a Tor exit node. Thanks again for the message - if you have more questions or if I can help, just ask. :-) KrakatoaKatie 23:17, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Edge Church controversy

Hello, due to 'Yellow Monkey' being on 'Wikibreak', can you please remove 'Yellow Monkey's' revision
here: [4] which states
"Protected Edge Church: vandalism" and renew this revision
[5] which was undone
by 'Ozdaren' here [6]. 'Ozdaren'
stated on the same reference just stated that the reason for undoing revision number 393958939 was
due to "Vandalism. Pseudo reference to magistrate's court." Correctly, Ozdaren observed the reference was wrong -
however the correct reference for the specific transcript of the court case in question
which was included in revision number 393958939 is "AMC-09-4608", or the penalty number for
the defendant who won the case is "AMC-09-4608/1". Please contact the Adelaide Magistrate's
court on (08) 8204 2444 to confirm the validity of these references, and please
allow revision number 393958939 to be restored in relation to the 'controversy'
section, second paragraph, with the now updated and correct reference to court case number.
Sincere Regards, have a nice day. Ps, I hope I edited this ok, I'm new to 'usertalk'.
Truthforme (talk) 12:00, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Do you have any other sources (e.g. Local newspaper reports?). I think as the content I believe you want to add is longer than a sentence then you'll need more sources. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:28, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Hello again, unforunately there are no newspaper reports concerning the arrest. I managed to find the group that protests against the church though, one video and one article online. The preacher who was arrested is from this group. Perhaps it would be better to word it this way under the controversy section: ie, ["A rival local church group has protested against the Edge church firstly concerning Mike
Guglielmucci,[Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH6yVNEOd7M] and secondly concerning the cliche' message
preached at Edge Church, stating "Edge Church Adelaide is notorious for these types
of clichés along with the rest of the apostate congregations in Adelaide,
it is the doctrine of the devil to say that we as believers cannot correct people
in sin providing we do it in love and with a motive to see the person repent
and turn to Christ." [Source: http://www.churchadelaide.com/edge-church-adelaide-cliches]"]

The above reflects elements of an ongoing controversy between the two church groups & may be helpful. Kind Regards. Ps, excuse my

ignoramus 'wikichat' editing - I am very sorry I am still learning :) Truthforme (talk) 12:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC) Ps, An addition to the 'Youth Alive' wiki-page (semi-protected due to "vandalism")
in a 'controversy' heading would be appropriate in the following text:
"Youth Alive attracts opposition from conservative Christians in both Brisbane [Source: http://josh-williamson.xanga.com/562587796/battlefied-report/]
and South Australia [Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOPZsZklqcI]."
If this could be added in a controversy section? Kind Regards Truthforme (talk) 13:06, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid without sources that satisfy WP:RS then I cannot add any such content to the article, and if you do the same it will be reverted. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:15, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

User_Talk:YellowMonkey

Hello, just a quick word of thanks for your support over there. 121.102.41.166 (talk) 12:48, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

No worries. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 13:31, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Relisted requested moves

Just noticed this edit of yours. Please do not move the relisting statement like this - the relisting statement (or at least the time stamp of it) has to go before the original timestamp as otherwise the bot won't pick up the relisting. Dpmuk (talk) 14:49, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry as well, rereading that I realise it was a bit strongly worded - it's an oddity of the bot and you wouldn't know unless you spend a lot of time at RM. The bot owner isn't around much any more so trying to get more complicated, not strictly necessary changes made like this isn't so easy. Dpmuk (talk) 19:11, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

ITN for John Barry (composer)

--HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:00, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

YM

The best thing you can do regarding YMs talk page is to leave it alone. You can certainly leave my comments there alone. If I wanted to contribute further to the RfC - and I don't - I would post there directly. Please refrain from posting there on my behalf. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 10:42, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to second Mattinbgn's comment. If people wish to post on the RfC talk page they can do so, but please do not move conversations from one location to another. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 11:00, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

As the IP that published the letter, I am mildly in favour of at least linking the discussion from the RfC page. However, I do want my open letter to stay in YM's talk page, because (contrary to most other comments) YM was and still is the intended recipient. Cheers 220.100.103.162 (talk) 11:30, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I've just done that, I hope that's OK with everyone. 220.100.103.162 (talk) 12:41, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about that. It's fine to have moved it back. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 16:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Pro-life

You might be interested in WP:ANI#Canvassing. JJB 04:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:37, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Re:Personal attack?

I made no personal attack. This is fact and I just want to let other know. If you don't like, report it to ANI. I'm willing to answer all questions. BTW, I'm not unfamiliar with WP policies so don't template me. Thank you.--115.75.150.184 (talk) 09:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Calling someone annoying in the title is a personal attack. Please don't do it. An ANI discussion should be un-needed in this case. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I mean anonymous. Sorry for this typo.--115.75.150.184 (talk) 09:07, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I fixed it[7]. Sorry again for the typo as I am not a native English speaker. And please stop the reverting spree.--115.75.150.184 (talk) 09:10, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I only reverted again because it still said annoy when I pressed revert, sorry about that. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:13, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

A little rude?

I would like to discuss with you personally and politely. You might remove this massage if you want. I don't know what you are thinking when you considered this letter only possibly a little rude. In my opinion, a letter which asked person to quit Wikipedia forever and is posted very close to this person's most important holiday is very rude. And the writer is also very smart to choose such a right time and right place to make the situation more dramatic. What are your opinions? --115.75.150.184 (talk) 12:07, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm perfectly happy to discuss this with you. While I don't agree with you entirely its always good to have a different perspective on the matter, and, along with Dr. Blofeld, you haven't just offered your uncritical support which is good :). On that line I'd like to encourage you to get involved in any further discussions on YellowMonkey's adminship. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:44, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I will until the return of YM. I have tried to contact him through email but I have got any responses yet. After YM returns, I will not get involve as I know the dramatic atmosphere an anonymous can create. I could confidently say that I have more experience in dealing with problematic IPs than you so I know what should I do (I have joined Vietnamese Wikipedia since 2004).--115.75.150.184 (talk) 16:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

With regards to holidays I would say that Christmas is the only one that I would be quite surprised that people wouldn't know about - but mainly thats down to be being used commercially worldwide. Second tier holidays that people probably know about are things like Easter, Chinese new year and Ramadan, but each of those has a billion-odd followers. Compared to those Tet is much smaller as its only celebrated by the Vietnamese. Although as Tet is also the lunar new year it is similar to Chinese New Year, but it isn't particularly obvious that lunar new year would also be important in Vietnam and therefore I think it is reasonable to assume good faith with regards to his timing. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:44, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

You should consider a factor that the person who is behind this IP is come from Japan and so that he or she should clearly know about lunar new year and its meaning. And the Tet often considered to be influenced by Chinese Lunar New Year or even a part of it so he would know it anyways through the current massive media coverage about Chinese Lunar New Year festivals. And the last thing is that YM put a red flag with Vietnamese text into his user page, I don't thing it is too hard to guess his race, this is the weakest factor but it still is a guessable factor. The letter clearly show that this IP has carefully investigated YM's case for a long time (just look at the way he or she provide diffs and links). So I hardly believe he or she has never made any guessings (and by this way, I also strongly believe his claim of not knowing the AFC/YellowMonkey is no more than a lie). For Vietnamese, if you get bad thing in the beginning of a lunar new year, you will have bad luck for the whole year. Therefore, we always try not to have any unhappy things (in the other words, we try to hide until the Tet end). I'm sorry but with these factors I can not assume this IP do not know about these things.--115.75.150.184 (talk) 16:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Its true that he has clearly been around for a while, but its also clear that this IP missed the RFC, so they haven't been around that much. And actually since 1873 the Japanese have celebrated New Year on the 1st January not on the lunar calendar - that you didn't know this means its perfectly reasonable that he doesn't know the Vietnamese don't do the same. Especially as the Thai celebrate their New Year on a fixed date. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:50, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

What do you think if he or she isn't new at all? he or she praticed in the past but then he or she decided to make a play so that YM would get more pressure and quit. This is only my speculation but I found it is reasonable since in the RFC, one editor named Access Denied who accused YM's photo pools crashed his PC, has been blocked for sockpuppeting and some other were discovered as socks. YM's record of quick and swift blocking of socking accounts has brought him not only many supporters but also a significant numbers of haters. You see in the RFC, the RFC aimed to request YM change his way of blocking people and protecting pages but it turned out to be a people's court or a witch hunt where YM got shot from all sides. Some editors even digged the distant-past actions of YM to accuse him.

You got some reasonable points. But Japanese still have a festival in the beginning of Lunar New Year called Setsubun and a significant numbers of people still consider Lunar New Year is an important day (they have two new year days in one year, I know it because I'm learning Japanese languae). I hard to believe the person behind this IP hasn't known anything.

After all, we would get to nowhere if we only keep speculating. Given your points, I agree to assume good faith that this IP don't know anything.--115.75.150.184 (talk) 03:02, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Good points, especially with Access Denied. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 11:15, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I called the comment only a "little rude" because he used other language around his comment saying that he hoped YellowMonkey wouldn't return to the project which means that I don't feel the comment is a particularly serious personal attack, if it is a personal attack at all. However it is probably fair to say that the first sentence probably has made the discussion more dramatic. Maybe when I initially restored the comment I should have left out the first sentence. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:44, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

You are right. You should remove the first sentence as I immediately assumed bad faith after read it. I am not very good at writing English but you can feel the heat on my texts. According to Vietnamese customs, asking a person to leave forever after he or she contributed much is a very rude and offensive to do, especially the way this IP did. I don't know much about your culture, but I think this is not acceptable at all. YM has fault but I don't think his fault is that serious and is that counter-productive so that we need to death sentence him.--115.75.150.184 (talk) 16:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

<shrug> I don't think its quite as big a deal in my culture. It is a little rude, but I don't think its the same - asking someone to leave is making them lose a lot of face, which is much more of an issue in eastern culture. To be honest I'd expect that it probably is rude in Japanese culture, but I'm not sure, though given how assertive he is he's probably a westerner. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:50, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

OK he might be a Westerner, given his English skills. I don't think so many Japanese could be that good at English. I agree to accept this point.--115.75.150.184 (talk) 03:02, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

With regards to the situation becoming more dramatic, I think a lot of the reason is down to the issues of YellowMonkey's adminship not being looked at more seriously sooner (and looking at someones adminship should absolutely not be a punishment, no-ones perfect.). I also think that significant number of his supporters were attacking the IP editor and making slightly pointless +1 posts rather than tackling the arguments presented in a meaningful way. This appears to be down to some editors finding it extremely difficult to accept that YellowMonkey's adminship hasn't had its issues. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:44, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Different cultural spheres have different reactions against specific things. You are similar to the idea of the-rule-of-law as you country have a respective judicial system so I am not surprise of you intention to pursue sanctions against YM. You think this is a right thing to do; YM did wrong and he need to have sanctions. And I respect your intention. But in my point of view, and I think it will be better for Wikipedia if we can act this way, everything should be resolved accordingly to the common sense as it can greatky reduce the infamous Wikipedia Drama. Blocking or removal of tools should only use as a process to prevent the whole system get hurt by someone. YMdid wrong and did misuse his tools. But after he was warned (AFAIK, 4 times including the AFC ), he has apologized for his conduct and make some promises. From this time until now, I haven't found he has ever seriously broken his promises as he only edited a little after. We still can have an other look if he break any of his promises.

The IP editor should accept these attacks because many vandals use IP as a very good shield when they vandalize Wikipedia or some true newcomer use IP to make test edits on Wikipedia's articles. And then all IP have got prejudgment for some others' actions. This is very regrettable but we can not do anything to change people's though in this time. For this IP, he or she made a serious request with a rude comment but who would take responsibility for it? So you should not be so surprise when supporters tend to attack him than tack his argument. Just let it be.

And I don't think some editors finding it extremely difficult to accept that YellowMonkey's adminship hasn't had its issues. I closely monitor the case of YM from the beginning of it. Most supportive editors feel the way YM got treated excessively and unfairly for what he has done for Wikipedia. An editors has used the word "witch hunt" for that situation.--115.75.150.184 (talk) 16:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

With regards to culture given that all the major English speaking countries (with the notable exception of Scotland) have their legal systems based on common law so I think to be part of the project we are going to follow a "common-law" approach. EDIT: Though in the RFC so far the agreement is more similar to your suggestion than hard sanctions. And while IP editors do sometimes behave badly there is a serious issue (which is even getting press coverage) with newcomers not being welcomed enough into the project, and that will make severely damage the project - most vandals are school-kids mucking around, by YellowMonkey over-reacting he probably encourages them. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:50, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

superbowl

Hi, if you are going to move the oppose vote out of the hat which says the superbowl is too american then please move this support vote out of the hat which argues the game is financially significant. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 22:48, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I think the oppose vote is borderline (which is why I didn't remove it from the hat immediately). However as I support posting more American football content on ITN and I don't want anyone to feel that I've attempted to remove opposing views from my own I thought it was best that it was publicly visible.

Comparing the Superbowl to other sports that have been recently posted and making financial comparisons is also unneeded and off-topic - especially as the Superbowl is on WP:ITN/R and doesn't need any justification to post - just an article update. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:53, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. I am not questioning your neutrality or your desire to appear neutral. But "some votes are more equal than others" does not strike me as an equitable policy, and my statement is perfectly civil and provides a rationale whereas other simple support votes were not hatted. I am also not asking that the discussion folowing my vote be restored, just the vote. Please treat me with equal respect and remove the vote from the hat. If you want to do so with only the support comment and omit the rest of the sentence about sumo and cricket (even tho they are recent debates) that would be perfectly fine with me. No need for talkback, I watch pages I have edited. Thanks.μηδείς (talk) 23:03, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough :). I've moved your vote outside of the hatting. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:06, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

A scholar and a gentleperson. μηδείς (talk) 23:08, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Basmati

Hi there, I dropped a note here. 124.147.78.105 (talk) 13:52, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Third Way (think tank)

Per WP:BRD, I won't revert your edit, but I've created a section for discussing the criticism section of this article on the talkpage: see Talk:Third Way (think tank)#Criticism section. Robofish (talk) 23:43, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

WP:RUP Cleanup bot needs maintenance

Hello. See this for example. It keeps doing it. Can you please either fix or escalate? Thanks. 113.197.209.20 (talk) 12:29, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

What's the problem? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:01, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh, sorry. I think when it removes stuff from the unprotection section it jams it together with the following section. See here for example. Can you see that? 113.197.243.71 (talk) 11:40, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

The issue is that it doesn't behave as expected if you completely clear a section -this is fixed in my userspace and I'll contact the author. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:59, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Great, thanks. 220.100.87.222 (talk) 23:14, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Reading to Plymouth Line

After several years of discussion the consensus was to split the Reading to Plymouth Line article into three articles - Bristol to Exeter line, Reading to Taunton line, and Exeter to Plymouth line. The split has now been done, though fairly crudely as I am not an expert on the subject. It will need an expert eye to look at it and smooth out the edges. SilkTork *^YES! 15:24, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Nice one. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 18:33, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Protections

I think you and YM may have inadvertently highlighted the biggest problem with indefinite protections. Looking at many of the articles you've brought to RfUP, I don't think YM meant for the articles to be protected forever and until the end of time but, what it's easy to forget when you press the button, is that that's exactly what indef is unless someone with the capacity to get it unprotected stumbles across it. In many of these cases, protection for a week or a month (or even a year) would have been perfectly justified and I probably would have declined the unprotection requests. The trouble with indef is that 2 years on, we can't tell if the issue is still an issue and, with the protecting admin unfortunately inactive, we have very little information on which to base decisions on unprotection. Anyway, I just wanted to share my thoughts with someone! I might request a database report of indefinitely semi'd articles that have been protected for a very long time. I'm sure there'd be many articles where unprotection would be inconceivable, but I think there might be a few where unprotection or pending changes could be a realistic option.

On another note, I don't suppose you can make it to any of these? And, yet another digression, have you ever considered requesting your own mop? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:29, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I think it makes sense that they weren't intended to be forever, I think he got a bit left out from the community with his admin actions - as indef and unprotect used to be the way - and his supporters probably didn't realise either so it wasn't sorted sooner :(. Regardless its all water under the bridge now.

I think for now challenging them on RUP means that at least a couple of people take a look at them, which seems sensible - I wouldn't want to unprotect one of the ones which Nangparbat may have edited without a second opinion, but when you guys get bored I guess we should just put the rest (that don't look really obviously bad, like Vietnam) onto Pending Changes - I counted them up and there are about 200 left. I don't want to take it to ANI if I can help it as its not really fair.

I think usually the standard of indefinite semi-protections is pretty good - I did have a quick look through the first page or so of Wikipedia:Database reports/Indefinitely semi-protected articles and most of them are pretty obvious, there's surprisingly few that looked worthy of unprotection - at least at first glance, maybe some of the long term vandals have moved on - its always difficult to see.

I do think Casliber's argument ages ago that indefinite protections are better than timed ones makes sense. The problem with timed protections is that the vandal knows when they are going to expire too, whereas if at some point between 1 and 3 years or whatever its much more difficult. It could make sense to switch all the indefinite protections to have a 5 year expiry or something - although it means that Anal sex will be vandalised a couple of times every 5 years, other stuff can get forgotten.

I'll also try and come along to a Wiki event sometime, and I might consider becoming an admin, I don't see a great rush to do so yet! -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:05, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

PS you can sort the indefinitely protected list by date, the earliest non-redirect is protected from 2007, which isn't that old. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:12, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

conventional wisdom when YM became an admin.

If my judgement is reflective of common practice, then I would say that indef semi is really quite rare. I see dozens of requests for it at RfPP every day, but they're only very rarely granted. I'd still be curious to see a list of articles that have been protected for more than a couple of years. There'll be the obvious cases (like anal sex!) where unprotection is never going to be sensible, but there might be some where the issues of 2007/8/9 aren't really issues in 2011. Some of the creeps from those days seem to have found hobbies or lives or something, though, of course, they've been replaced by plenty of new creeps. It would be good to have a review of every indef semi after a few years. I might raise something at the pump or AN when I have a moment.

Well, I'm sure you'd be most welcome at any event—Wikipedians are, in my (not vast) experience, very pleasant people in real life. If I understand their plans, WP:CONTRIB intend to hold events at lots of universities around the UK if these go well, so keep an eye out for something that pops up near you. As for adminship, I'm sure you'd do a great job, but as you say there's no rush. :::And thanks, I'll look at that. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 23:08, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I just noticed this conversation and I have something to add. I would notify HJ Mitchell, but his talk page is protected and I have the impression that his alternative page is not watched. Eraserhead1, if you could ping him on this I would be grateful.

I was the person who made this proposal about one year ago, which, together with the ensuing discussion (including an eye-opening comment from YM), is very relevant to the above. However, it was unfortunately largely ignored.

I hope this YM incident will make the proposal more actual and understood.

As for "Casliber's argument ages ago that indefinite protections are better than timed ones", what are you referring to? I confess that I have a strong prejudice about anything Casliber may have said at the time, because he proved many times over:

1. Appalling lack of awareness of protection policy, abusing indefinite semis as a preventive measure against vandalism that never happened—see e.g. the case of John Laws (later escalated to AN/I) and his pretty hilarious and disastrous attempt at retrofitting policy to his past actions
2. Lack of understanding of protection policy and reluctance to admit having acted against it, even after his nose was duly rubbed against said policy (more evidence available on request)
3. His bad faith and prejudice against unregistered users (plenty of evidence to support this, too)

My understanding is that PC's trial has finished and further PCs should be granted very sparingly. Also, PC suffers from the same problem of indefinite protections, in that it gets forgotten. On this topic, I think it would make sense to introduce termed PCs (as opposed to automatically indefinite/infinite terms).

I think blanket-demoting the rest of YM's indef-semis to PC and call it even would be a mistake, not only for the issues with PC I just mentioned, but also because I am positive that there are still plenty of instances that can and will be unprotected on sight as soon as we get a chance to analyse and bring them to WP:RUP like Eraserhead1 and I did for so many cases during the last weekend. Personally, I am just getting started.

Finally, does the indefinite protection monitoring tool mentioned above take into account the fact that semiprotections used to be indefinite by default a few years ago (like PCs are now)? That might be the reason why that tool reports the earliest indefinite semi to have been granted in 2007, which I am sure is incorrect.

Sorry about the long post, and thanks for being sensitive about a topic I care a lot about. 113.197.209.20 (talk) 13:22, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I apologise for my talk page being protected—it's a necessary measure, unfortunately, against long-term abuse that can't be dealt with by blocking (believe me, I've tried!). I do check the alternate talk page, but it's not as obvious as a bright orange bar when you try to edit!

I think banning indef semis altogether would be a bad idea, but, as I said at the the time of that discussion (wow, that's a long time ago), there are some articles (though very few) that one could probably never justify unprotecting – Her Majesty, Brad Pitt, Lindsay Lohan, George W. Bush – but a lot of indef semis are just forgotten about. I couldn't possibly remember all the 4,000 protections I've made, but I can tell you that less than 100 (maybe less than 50) have been indef semis of articles. I agree that it's something that should be kept to an absolute minimum, because indefinite, in practice, means "until somebody notices it and persuades an admin to do something about it", which in most cases ends up being forever.

If you stumble across an article (or go out of your way to stumble across several) that's indef semi'd and looks like unprotection is viable, feel free to bring it to my attention (here or my alternate talk page), but RfUP can be a bit hit-and-miss depending on the admin working the board that day and their understanding of the issues.

All protections are indef by default, it's up to the admin to set an expiry and, if they don't, the protections is indef. PC is done through the same interface, but I for one tend to be quite liberal about the expiry. I'll usually leave it as indef unless it looks likely the disruption will be limited to a short periods of time. I watch all the articles I apply it to and I believe the special page that displays articles with edits awaiting review is well monitored. It is being used sparingly, but I believe a new trial of a more advanced version is in the works. Personally, I'm a staunch advocate of PC in cases where vandalism is a problem, but not so much or so regular that that semi is essential.

Sorry, Eraserhead, for using your talk page to talk to 113... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:23, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

No worries :), I will see if I have time to reply properly tonight, maybe it will be tomorrow. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:49, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Eraserhead1 for hosting this chat.

HJ Mitchell, non need to apologise for protecting your talk page, I'm sure it's for good reasons. I just thought you were not monitoring it because I left you an invitation to join this discussion which was (tangentially) related to a WP:RUP case in which you were involved, but you did not take part. No worries.

My bad, I just assumed that all PCs were indef, thanks for letting me know how it works. This is good, so at least both PC and protection suffer from the same problem and we can solve both in one shot.

I think we need to take a longer-term view. If it's true that indefinite translates to infinite in so many cases, that means that BLPs like the ones you point out are ironically among the ones that should *not* be protected indefinitely, because people are not immortal.

I still don't understand what practical risk and unbearable admin burden it would be to limit the term to a maximum of 1 year (5 years? 20 years? 70 years? whatever - all are infinitely shorter than infinity). This will mean automatically trying unprotection every so long. Also, times change, so stuff like Noob or even Nigger may fall in disfavour as vandalism targets - you will notice that Coon is currently unprotected and not suffering from disastrous vandalism.

At least, we could change the default term from indefinite to e.g. 1 year or less. It only makes sense, given that indef is supposed to be the exception. 113.197.243.71 (talk) 23:26, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, at the start of the PC trial last summer, a lot of articles were downgraded from indef semi to pending changes. In a few cases (including a surprising number of marine mammals), it worked surprisingly well, but in many others (Brad Pitt being one), it was a disaster and several articles were quickly put back onto semi. There are some articles that are not going to be safe to unprotect for the foreseeable future. Maybe when they retire and get grey hair, the vandals who target them will be replaced by a new generation, targeting new so-called "celebrities", unprotection will be viable, but, while they're still active, most famous actors, footballers and heads of state/government will require semi. These articles are well-enough watched that someone would decide the semi was no longer necessary.

I think a sensible policy proposal would be to mandate that all indef semis (excluding BLPs) from now on must go through RfPP and maybe it's worth setting up a page where these can be logged (that's not as massive as the databsae report or the protection log) for tracking purposes. Could you support something like that if it went to AN and/or an RfC? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:16, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I think we are confusing two separate topics.

1. Semi vs PC. I don't have enough experience with PC and I so am still forming an opinion about it as a "protection" facility. I can see how semi could be better in cases where there is too much genuine vandalism noise. At the moment I'm not focussing on this topic.
2. Indefinite terms versus long terms. This applies both to PC and semis. I think my question is still unanswered. Would it be such big trouble and risk to automatically unprotecting/unPC-ing articles every x months/years? The benefits are clear to me, and as you suggested yourself, I can indeed foresee a future where Brad Pitt's article will no longer be a target.

As for your proposal, I would definitely support it. I think it was actually part of that old proposal/discussion I referenced above. However, I still don't see how indefinites are better than long-terms and I still think they should go. 205.228.108.186 (talk) 02:16, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

If its going to be time limited I think its got be at most every two-three years - otherwise you're going to create a huge amount of work for very little gain, aside from YellowMonkey's most of the current indefinite semi-protections look pretty reasonable. There are quite a few indefinitely protected articles that are BLPs, or obvious vandalism targets like Homosexuality or targets of long term socks.

The reason it can only be reviewed every 2-3 years is that really the only way to do such a review in a sensible manner is to either unprotect the article after the period, or at least reduce it to pending. Otherwise you are just going to spend a lot of time arguing about which articles need unprotecting and which don't. And the reviewing needs to be infrequent enough that there's a genuine chance that the situation which resulted in the original protection has changed in a decent percentage of cases. Additionally you don't want to waste too much of the regulars time on the matter.

Take homosexuality - in 50 years time that article will be unprotected, but when the crossover point between now - when it will attract a ton of vandalism - and that point in 50 years time is anyones guess. If we get that right to the nearest 2-3 years we'll have done pretty well.

And FWIW even though his reasons may have been lacking the number of challenged semi-protections from Casliber was really only a handful. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Two-three years? Great, where do I sign?

Very little gain - sorry but I disagree. I think IP contributions that are not blatant vandalism (although they are unfortunately often branded as such) are vital to keep WP's POV in check.

As for Casliber, yes thankfully he hasn't been as prolific as YM in his indefinite semis (in fact, no single admin has), but he did do quite a number of them against policy. The reason why I stopped challenging his semis is because I got depressed after he inexplicably received so much support in the John Laws case (see links above).

However, if anything, this reinforces my belief that WP:IAR is being abused, and allows cases like YM to carry on undisturbed for years. We definitely need tighter controls and accountability around admin "rights". 220.100.87.222 (talk) 00:34, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Very little gain certainly applies to quite a few articles. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 09:28, 19 February 2011 (UTC)