User talk:Free smyrnan/Archive1

Hello Free smyrnan! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Khoikhoi 23:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC) Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Fair use • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Build consensus • Resolving disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Useful templates • Categories • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Tools • User scripts

Merhaba

Why smyrnan?Are you located in İzmir? Please watch template projects in wikiproject Turkey. Regards Must^TC 13:39, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I am from Izmir, though I live in Istanbul. Regards. Free smyrnan 17:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Cooperation board launched

A new (and overdue) Greek and Turkish cooperation and notification board has been launched here. Stop by, have a look and sound off! Cheers! Baristarim 07:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks. Looks like it could be useful. Free smyrnan 09:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Hey Symrnan! I think you're really cool. I know I sound like a little kid right now, but I really like it when I see someone defending the Ottoman Empire like you do. At lease someone understands... (besides me) -- WiiVolve 04:27, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Thx. I think both the good and the bad about the OE add up to a really fascinating topic. --Free smyrnan 06:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I really think that the Janissary article deserves these:

The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page.

People should really try and stop making every "infidel" (in my point of view) appear like the bad guy all the time.

--WiiVolve 13:14, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople

Thanks, i am not that much aware of the millet system. but, i had the impression that administrative matters were under the juristriction of the local Ottoman officials, not of the church (e.g. the pashas) and also that legal affairs were under the responsibility of the kadis, cause as the respective article says: qadis traditionally have jurisdiction over all legal matters involving Muslims, and thus, in cases regarding matters between Muslims and Christians. if the Patriarchate had legal juristriction over cases involving strictly only Orthodox Christians, this has to be noted, don't u think? btw, u may be interested in looking at my edit here. any correction and input will be appreciated;-). Regards Hectorian 12:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, this was interesting indeed! The truth is that Tanzimat and events after 1830 are not thoroughly analysed by the greeks books (at least not those at school), perhaps cause there was already a greek state at that time. something i did not understand (not important though), is why the Patriarch is supposed to have said "and may it never come out again"? meaning that it was not good, or meaning that it is good, hoping that no future ferman will replace it? As for the text quoted, i have search myself a bit, and found out that legally, the Patriarch had some juristriction of the christian orthodox faithful, but administration...? I tend more to believe that the Patriarch (at least some of the Ecumenical Patriarchs) had a sort of influence on the sultan and the authorities, rather than he could in fact administer the christian population... There were local governors, appointed by the sultan (and sometimes, as Ali in Giannena, against him), so, how was the Patriarch in charge? I am much aware of places in modern Greece that used to have a degree of autonomy (with the exact meaning of the word) from the central government, during the Ottoman period (e.g. Mani, Souli, Sfakia, Pelion), and that these privilleges did not apply to the other regions. Special laws and provision, i cxan understand, but self-administration, i think it is something that the Christians did not have. Regards;-) Hectorian 10:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, i acknowledge that the Patriarch was involved in the administration of the Christians, though not in the modern sense of the word. but the readers will not understand it, i guess (as i wouldn't either if u had not explained to me and if i had not done some search). i am not going to dispute the sources, of course (since u have not used Kinross in the article, btw). perhaps in a future expand, or after the creation of a separate article on the 'Millet i Rum', the issue will be cleared up. Regards Hectorian 10:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Military history

Hey s'up. I had only put in that dead link so that some one could create an article with that name.. That's like a small trick to provoke people into creating articles by pointing them out what is needed :) For the moment I think the link you gave can do the trick since it will be months before that article will be created probably, however it might be a good idea to re-replace it with the Military history of Turkey link again sometime in the future.. Cheers! Baristarim 14:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Cantemir

Hi. I did not remove it: I just alphabetized the cat inclusions (I moved it a bit to the top). May I also suggest: when adding categories to articles, please write it as [[Category:People of the Ottoman Empire|Cantemir, Dimitrie]], and not just [[Category:People of the Ottoman Empire]]. Applying the former guideline includes articles in categories under the letter of their family name, as they should be (your version had Cantemir under D for "Dimitrie"). (This brings to mind another issue which you may not be aware of yet: names in brackets, unlike the names of the articles and categories, should never have diacritics - for some reason, wikipedia moves letters with diacritics to the bottom of categories, and you have names beginning with "Gz" coming up before names beginning with "Gă", unless you turn that "ă" into an "a" in the brackets; it does the same for lower case letters in the beginning of words, so make sure you capitalize the letter which arranges the article in the category). Many thanks and happy editing. Dahn 09:22, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Btw, do you happen to know Cantemir's name in Ottoman Turkish? The page could use it as a variant in the opening sentence. Dahn 14:21, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Excellent. Thank you. Dahn 17:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Magnificent improvements. Kudos. Dahn 11:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

SashatoBot

My bot is automatic and he just follow interwiki links and adding it to other wikipedias. Article about tr:Ivan Aivazovsky exist on Turkish wikipedia and you should go there and tell them that they don't know to write. I telling you again, my bot is completely automatic. Thanks and best regards. --SasaStefanovic • 14:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, bot will fix that in next turn. --SasaStefanovic • 16:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Osmanlıca Viki Hakkında

Merhaba sayın (Özgür İzmirli) Free smyrnan

Ben İstanbul'da görev yapan 17 yıllık tarih öğretmeniyim. Yeterince İngilizce bilmediğim için Osmanlıca viki hakkında size burada Türkçe cevap veriyorum. Öncelikle şunu ifade etmek istiyorum vikipedyada şu aşağıdaki ölü ve yapay diller var iken ana dili Türkçe olan bir şahsın Osmanlıca vikiye karşı çıkması çok üzüntü verici Language proposal policy sayfasındaki açıklama

• Can there be wikis in ancient languages?

  Yes. There are already wikis available in Latin, Old English, Gothic and Pali.

• Can there be wikis in artificial languages?

  Yes. There are already wikis available in Esperanto, Ido, Interlingua, Interlingue, Lojban, Volapük and Novial. See the relevant note under the prerequisites for cautionary information about fictional languages.

Bu duruma göre Osmanlıca vikinin açılması kurallara aykırı değil.

Osmanlıcanın önemine ve Osmanlıca vikinin ne işe yarayacağına gelince,

• Osmanlı devleti idare ettiği bütün topraklarda bütün belgeleri Osmanlıca tutmuştur. Osmanlı Tarihi aynı zamanda Osmanlıdan ayrılan devletlerinde tarihinin bir parçasıdır. Balkan yarımadasının Arap yarımadasının Kuzey Afrika’nın tarihinin Osmanlı idaresinde geçen kısmının bütün yazılı belgeleri Osmanlıcadır. Bu ülke tarihçilerinin bir kısmı da bu sebeple Osmanlıca öğrenmektedir.
• Osmanlı Devletinin bütün yazılı evrakı Kurtuluş savaşının belgeleri ve Türkiye Cumhuriyetinin ilk beş yılına ait belgelerin tamamı Osmanlıcadır. Osmanlıca bilinmeden Ne Kurtuluş Savaşı ne de Cumhuriyetin kuruluşu asıl kaynaklarından incelenebilir.
• Osmanlı arşivlerinde 150 milyon adetten fazla Osmanlıca belge vardır. Bunlar yüzlerce arşiv çalışanı tarafından tasnif edilip araştırmacıların hizmetine sunulmaktadır. Fakat hala bunların üçte ikisi tasnif edilmemiştir.
• Osmanlıdan ayrılan topraklarda Türkiye’de veya dış ülkelerdeki kütüphanelerde müzelerde çok sayıda Osmanlıca kitap gazete dergi veya diğer yazılı belge yabancı ülke arşivlerinde çok sayıda Osmanlıca diplomatik evrakı mevcuttur
• Türkiye’de Osmanlıca bilmeden gazetecilik tarihi tiyatro tarihi tıp tarihi eczacılık tarihi futbol tarihi siyasi partilerin tarihi demiryollarının tarihi iktisat tarihi yazılamaz.
• Türkiye’nin yurtdışında uğraştığı Ermeni soykırımı iddiaları şimdilerde gündeme dahil edilmeye çalışılan Pontus soykırımı ve Süryani soykırımına ve diğer bazı iddialara Osmanlıca bilmeden cevap verilemez
  • Türkiye’deki üniversitelerin özellikle Tarih Edebiyat ve Arşivcilik bölümünde okuyan binlerce öğrenci ve Dünyadaki çeşitli üniversitelerin Osmanlı tarihi bölümünde okuyan çok sayıdaki öğrenci Osmanlıca öğrenmekte ve buralardaki Akademisyenler Osmanlıca bilmektedir.
  • Başta tarih vakfı olmak üzere çeşitli kurumlar gelen talepler doğrultusunda Osmanlıca kursları düzenlemektedir.
  • Osmanlıca viki açıldığında bu alanda büyük bir boşluk olması ve internette benzer bir örneğinin olmaması sebebiyle tanıtımı yapıldıktan sonra elbetteki Osmanlıca vikiye katkıda bulunacak olanlar üniversite öğrencileri ve akademisyenler olacak bu öğrenciler hem öğrendiklerini pratikte uygulama imkanı bulacak ve pekiştirecek hem de çeşitli bilgi birikimine sahip yurt içindeki ve dışındaki kullanıcılar bu birikimlerini başkaları ile paylaşma ve fikir alışverişi yapma imkanı bulacaklar.
  • Hiç denenmemiş bir şey olduğu için belki ileride hiç aklımıza gelmeyen yararlar da sağlayabilir.

Burada şunu sorabilirsiniz bu işler için Türkçe viki var bu dediklerin niçin orada olmuyor. Bunun cevabı basit insanlar kendilerini Türkçe yazarak her yerde ifade edebilir binlerce internet sitesinde kitaplarda dergilerde gazetelerde hatta broşürlerde ve el ilanlarında bile Fakat kesişim noktası Osmanlıca bilmek olan insanların çeşitli konulardaki bilgi birikimlerini Osmanlıca olarak ifade edeceği bir platform yoktur. Bu konuda büyük bir boşluk vardır. Benzer bir örneğinin olmaması sebebiyle bu proje çok önemlidir.

Ben Osmanlıca test vikipediasının yöneticisiyim. Osmanlıca Vikipedia Üç ay önce Fox Mccloud müracaatıyla ve özel olarak ilgilenmesiyle test olarak faaliyete başladı[1]. Ben de projenin başından itibaren orada yazmaya başladım. Fox Mccloud Osmanlıca bilmemesine rağmen bana çok yardımcı oldu. Osmanlıca oylamada karşı oy kullanmasına rağmen bir müddet, Saposcat’te katkıda bulundu. Daha sonra Azerbaycan Vikisinde bürokrat olan az:istifadəçi:Mehrdad bana yardımcı olmaya başladı. Kendisi Avustralya’da yaşamasına ve dolayısıyla saat dilimi farkına rağmen halen de bana her konuda yardımcı olmaya devam ediyor. Osmanlıca vikide şu anda taslak niteliğinde 180 [2] civarında madde var. Bu sayı halen faaliyette olan en az 80 dildeki vikinin geride bırakılması anlamına geliyor. Yani Osmanlıca viki daha test aşamasında vikideki 80 dili geride bıraktı. Bu maddelerin çoğunu ben yazdım. Osmanlıca viki açıldıktan sonra bu sitenin tanıtımını yapacaktım. İlk önce sitenin temelini oluşturmaya çalıştım.

Her şey bu şekilde yolunda giderken bu ay başında kabul edilen yeni bir başvuru sistemine göre m:Meta:Language proposal policy bütün yeni vikiler için yapılan başvurular iptal edildi ve yeni viki açılması için yeni sisteme göre tekrar başvuru yapılaması gerektiği ilan açıklandı. Eski sistem devam etseydi. Osmanlıca vikinin açılmaması için bir sebep yoktu. Mesela kasım ayı başında açılan 14 dildeki yeni vikinin hatta halen faaliyette bulunan çok sayıda vikinin durumundan daha iyi şu anda

• Osmanlıca viki için ilk kaşı argümanların ana dili Türkçe olan bir şahıstan gelmesine çok üzüldüm. Bu kadar emeğin boşa gitmesini talep etme anlamına gelen karşı argümanlarınızı ve (oppose) oyunuzu geri çekmenizi sizden rica ediyorum. Karar size kamış ben sadece bu konudaki fikirlerimi Osmanlıca vikinin durumunu ve ricamı size iletmek istedim. Kararınız ne olursa olsun bütün çalışmalarınızda başarılar dilerim. Cevabınızı ingilizce vikideki kendi sayfamda merakla bekliyorum.

--Tarih 18:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Osmanlıca Viki Hakkında

Kanaatinize saygılıyım fakat yine de oyunuzu geri çekmenizi ancak rica edebilirim ve bu gerçekleşirse çok memnun olurum.

Daha önce denenmemiş bir şeyin ne sonuçlar getireceğini şimdiden hiç kimse tam olarak bilemez. Mesleğim gereği okuduğum çok sayıda insanın, hayatta attığı küçük adımların ileride ne büyük sonuçlar doğurduğunu çeşitli vesilelerle öğrendim. Osmanlıca viki açılırsa belki zamanla Ottoman wikisource kurulmasına da zemin hazırlayabilir. Fakat Osmanlıca Viki açılmadan bu konuda bilgisi tecrübesi olan insanları burada bir araya getirmeden daha daha üst bir seviye olan Ottoman wikisource doğrudan açılması pek kolay değil. Osmanlıca vikiye katkıda bulunacak insanlar Osmanlı tarihine ilgi duyduları için bu lisanı öğreniyorlar. İlk aşama Osmanlıca bilen insanların bir araya gelip birikimlerini paylaşması. Vikipedyadaki eski veya ölü dilleri de tabiidirki bu dilleri öğrenen bu işe merak saran kişiler geliştiriyor. Ama şunu kesinlikle söyleyebilirim ki Osmanlıca viki açıldığında pek çok yayayan dilden daha ileride olacak. 3 aydır vikide açık olan çeşitli dillerin gelişmesini takip ediyorum uzun süre hiç madde ekenmeyen, üstelik yaşayan hemde konuşanı milyonlarla ifade edilen diller var. Avrupa'da bir ülke falan ülkede bir şehir gibi cümlelerden ibaret madde yazan çok sayıda yaşayan dil var. Bu kadar eksisi olan dillerin içinde Osmanlıca en az onlar kadar hak ediyor vikide yer alamayı. Burada hiç yapılmayan bir şey yapılacağı için ilk önce doğaldır ki 20 yüzyıl Osmanlıcası esas alınacak. Vikide pek fazla Osmanlıca bilen yok Osmanlıca bilen çok sayıda kişinin ise Vikiden haberi yok. İşte bütün mesele ve zor kısım bu. Osmanlıca bilenlere burayı tanıtabilirsek iş çözüm yoluna girmiş demektir. Ben kendim sadece vaktim olduğu kadarı ile 160 madde yazdım Emeklerimin boşa gitmesini istemiyorum. İlk aşamada Osmanlıca yazabilecek 5-6 kişi ile madde sayısı kısa zamanda artacaktır. Bir de Osmanlıca vikiye yeni başlayacakların vikinin çalışma sistemini bilmemeleri meselesi var. Fakat ben gücümün yettiği kadar bu projeyi gerçekleştirmek için çalışacağım.

Şimdi aklıma gelen şunları da ilave etmek istiyorum.

• Bugün İran'da yaşayan yaklaşık 15 milyon Azeri Osmanlıcaya yakın bir lisanı Arap harfleri ile okuyup yazıyor. Azeri vikisinde bu sebeple iki alfabe kullanılıyor. [3] Yani Osmanlıca tam ölü bir lisan sayılmaz. Doğu Türkistan'da yaşayan Uygurlar Uygur Türkçesini Hala Arap alfabesiyle yazıyor.[4] Uygurca vikide bunun örneklerini görebilirsiniz. Son olarak şunu belirtmek isterim 1920 lere kadar Doğu Türkistandan Tataristana ve Balkan yarımadasına kadar bütün Türkler Osmanlıcaya az çok benzeyen ve yazı tarzı ilede şive farkını en alt seviyeye indiren Arap alfabesini kullanıyordu. Gaspıralı İsmail'in Tercüman'ı geniş bir coğrafyada okuyucu kitlesine bu sayede kavuştu. Yani Türkiye dışında da Osmanlıca kaynak oldukça fazla. Aslında Osmanlıca İnsanların çoğu zaman yanıbaşında hemen her eski köyde çeşme cami mezar taşı kitabeleri var. Eski köklü ailelerin ellerinde büyük dedelerine ait osmanlıca kitap mektup vs. metin var.

Karşı argümanlarınızı ve karşı oyunuzu geri çekmeniz halinde çok menmnun olacağımı bir defa daha ifade eder sizi bu kadar meşğul ettiğim ve zamanınızı aldığım için özür dilerim. Bütün çalışmalarınızda başarılar dilerim. --Tarih 20:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Families

Merhaba. I think families should be included as subcats in the "Phanariotes" cat, because historians do not agree when Phanariotes ceased to exist, and because it may be much easier overall (in this case, remaining marginally ambiguous is much more helpful than imposing divisions - in my country at least, distant descendants of the, say, Mourousis well still being referred to as "Phanariotes" by the 1880s). Thanks for creating the category - I'm sure we still have to streamline it, but it is a great improvement in itself. Dahn 01:10, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Ricamı kırmadığınız için çok teşekkür eder, çalışmalarınızda başarılar dilerim. --Tarih 12:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar

Thanks! I will do my best to make sure that it goes FA soon! Baristarim 20:20, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Economic hist.

Merhaba, Ekonomik tarih ile ilgilendiğinizi görüyorum. Size Süreyya Faruqi'yi önerebilirmiyim. ODTÜ'de öğrenciliğim sırasında bir seçmeli dersimde öğrencisi oldum. Kitap/makale lerinden büyük keyif alacağınızı sanıyorum. Kolaygelsin, İyiyıllar,Mutlu bayramlar. Must^TC 13:26, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Are you turkish?

because you sound like an armenian posing as a turk. There are thousands of years of history but you give so much weight to some armenian rubbish. Only an armenian would push so much genolies propaganda.

lol. don't worry Deniz, let's just stick to working on articles slowly but surely. :) Baristarim 20:26, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Türkiye Portalı

Merhaba geçenlerde Türkiye Portalını seçkin portallara aday gösterdim Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Turkey/archive1. Fakat bir Vikiproje Türkiye üyesi dışında kimse oy kullanmadı. Gelen karşıt oylarla kabul edilmemiş oldu. Lütfen oyunuzu kullanın.--Absar 12:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Hamparsum Limonciyan

Hi! I made some minor edits to the article. Perhaps you could add sections to it (like "Life", "Works", etc.) Other than that, it looks good! Khoikhoi 06:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok

Sure, no problems.. Good job with the article by the way!! Baristarim 16:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

DYK!

On January 13, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Hagop Kazazian Pasha, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 17:19, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

(to Free smyrnan) Sure, but it doesn't appear to be on them main page anymore. :-) Khoikhoi 04:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

This makes me wonder what's going to happen to Turkey when we put in on the main page. ;-) Khoikhoi 05:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Khoikhoi 06:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth...

...I find your stance in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ottoman Muslim casualties of World War I noble. Cheers! NikoSilver 11:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I saw your comment in Nico's talk page. When we keep our mouth shut we don't help Wikipedia! But I do agree that in cases of such fierce debates Wikipedia cannot work. The dead-end of the discussion in AfD about this article is characteristic for me of this inherent problem of Wikipedia. In these cases the mild and calm voices of both sides are often neglected. But you have no reason to feel bad for that, if you are OK with yourself. If the article does not get improved in the future and gets in the middle of edit wars, those now reacting to your views will have to face the consequences of their stance (and unfortunately Wikipedia as well).--Yannismarou 08:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Antoine Ignace Melling

Note this new English article, link to the Turkish article of the same name - as per the link you added at Melling :-) Uhrwerkaffefass 00:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

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Hi

By the way, I just wanted to say that all your work is really appreciated, and that you have been doing good work with the translations as well as with many other tasks. Cheers! Baristarim 01:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

No worries, I assumed that that was the case :) Baristarim 01:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

background

I did not get why you deleted just after I added. I thought people whom left behind is a very significant information, see [5]. I guess I got mad 4 no reason, I just check it and and the information was back in the introduction section. Sorry for the mis-understanding.OttomanReference 07:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Hrant Dink

I e-mailed you regarding Hrant Dink. -- Aivazovsky 23:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Me, I just replied to you in the talk page :) Baristarim 01:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Notes from the Funeral

I am mourning Hrant Dink. I feel guilty. Only after his death, do I realize just how much his existence meant to me. I am not sure exactly why I am having this reaction, and to this extent. My colleagues are a little surprised, I think I lost a friend the other day because he did not understand why I started verbally attacking him, my family is concerned a little. I am reacting as if to a personal loss. It is, to me. I don't know how to explain this exactly.

Tuesday morning... I set out for the funeral. Public transportation as Istanbul traffic is not to be braved on such an occasion. In Besiktas, I stop by a traffic policeman and ask for the best method of reaching Sisli. He says "well, it is a little tough as there is the funeral...". I tell him I am trying to go to the funeral. "Oh, OK, why don't you go up Valikonagi, that is currently the best method". I grab a cab. He was right, Valikonagi is not overwhelmed yet. I get out of the cab, walk a little to the street that leads to the funeral. The police cordon. I walk in. Brief search. Pass through. The street looks strange without traffic. One jeweler is busy arranging his wares in the shop window. Someone from a retail shop is sweeping in front. People, like me, walking to the funeral. Ah... I can see the crowd now.

I descend into Sisli. Packed. We are standing, literally, shoulder to shoulder. My friend and I are having trouble reaching each other on the cell phone, the local network seems overwhelmed as everybody is trying to find everybody else. The main boulevard of Sisli is boiling over and spilling with people. A mournful song is being played, followed by more. Some in Armenian, some in Turkish. Sari Gelin is repeated often, in both languages. About one in 5 is holding black signs with "We are Hrant", "We are Armenian". The mood is somber. I look around. People mostly in their 30-40-50's, regular people. The man and woman on the street is here, today. The kind that normally goes about their business. Towards my right a group starts slogan chanting. People shush and yell out "that is not what he wanted".

I am unable to see what is taking place in front of Agos. Too distant. A few speeches are made, but, Rakel Dink's speech is drowned out where I am by the slogan chanting group. It is only later that I find out she said "you have left us, your loved ones, but you did not leave your country." After an hour or so, we start walking. I feel a little strange. I see the slogan chanting group now. They are carrying some sort of white banners. Someone tells them again to shut up and one of them replies, "what sort of a demonstration happens without slogans?". I look around, wondering why people are here.

I pass in front of Agos. Lump in my throat, but I am too ashamed to cry. I can't really look up to the large picture of Dink hanging on Agos. How many times did I walk past it, not giving it a second thought?

I am re-united with my friend past Agos. I feel a little less out of place now. We talk a little as we walk. The group behind is continuing their slogans. It is "Tek yol devrim" now (Only way is revolution). My friend is exasperated and starts talking about how even for anarchism, it seems a qualifying exam is needed. I don't see a step and stumble. Some people make sure I don't fall. It is a silent walk. Occasional snippets of conversation reach my ears - a little everyday chit-chat, mostly people talking among themselves about Dink and his death, one experienced demonstrator - he is talking of demonstrations in years past. My back hurts a little from standing up without moving for so long. Occasionally applauses break out, I don't know why, although I participate. People on windows watching as we pass by.

Taksim. My friend suggests we take a break. We grab a bite to eat, the place is full of others taking a break as well. After lunch, my friend departs. The end of the procession has passed by. I walk alone to catch up. A police riot tank at the end, I walk past it. The riot police are walking in front of the vehicle, in full gear. It is a divided road and I see that the procession is towards the right of the division whereas I am to the left. The riot police are spread out on both sides. I ask one of them how I can re-join the procession. He tells me the road re-unites a little further, just to keep on walking. The slogan chanting group are right there at the end of the procession, marching before the riot police. I re-join the procession but this group makes me uncomfortable. I walk faster and leave them behind. Ah, finally, I feel at home, part of it. The road turns right and all of a sudden the Unkapani bridge over the Golden Horn is in front of me, down below, teeming with people as they walk. Someone close to me, who seems rather knowledgeable about these things is estimating that the bridge length is about 50,000 people and therefore there are slightly more than 100,000 in the procession. Down, unto the bridge and beyond. We are on the Unkapani hill now. Some people are resting a little, sitting on the road dividers. A few water-sellers. As we walk past the many record shops in Unkapani, music blares out from one of them - they are playing Sari Gelin. The lump in my throat bursts. I cry a little.

Into an underpass. The sides of the road and the bridge over the underpass is teeming with people. I look up, searching for expressions. Somber. There is regular chanting now, "we are Hrant". The end, at Yenikapi. As we walk into the square, there is a van, giving directions on where to head within the square. I find a place to sit, on the grass. Music again, in Armenian and Turkish, always mournful. The van gives out instructions "Hrant's brothers and sisters, listen to me...". A couple of tears roll down and I hurry to wipe it, a little ashamed at the public display. But others are crying too. The church service has not finished yet, we are going to wait for about one hour. I continue to look at people as they file in. A few young girls in turban headdress. One young mother with a three year old in her arms, sleeping. Countless others from all walks of life. As the procession continues to fill up the square, people are asked to clear the road where the funeral vehicle will be passing.

A few buses enter the square. The van tells us that these are Hrant Dink's friends, headed to the graveyard from the church. We are asked to refrain from attending the burial, the graveyard cannot hold us. We will say good-bye here and leave. The funeral vehicle enters the square. The lump in my throat grows again. The vehicle passes in front of me, circles in the square and heads out. We are asked to disperse.

I don't know what to do with myself. I walk a little, randomly for a few minutes. I enter a small shop, get a can of soda. As I walk out, the riot police are shucking off their gear. Not 5 minutes are passed, but the square is mostly empty now. People have planted their placards in the flower beds. Black flowers...

I did not know that Hrant Dink's assassination had touched u so much... Btw, u do have a very good writing style; it is the best article about Dink's funeral I have read:). PS: judging by your username, I had the impression that u live in Izmir. Much regards and be OK Hectorian 18:01, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

A wonderful writing. Thank you for attending the funeral. By doing so, you, as an individual, have helped to strengthen Turkish-Armenian relations. Best, Aivazovsky 23:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW, did you recieve my e-mail? -- Aivazovsky 00:30, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

No problem! -- Aivazovsky 00:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey FS,

Re this edit, no excuses are necessary for a WProject's participation. Especially from people like you! :-) NikoSilver 12:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed the section above when I posted this. One more reason why you deserve the "especially" bit. Your stance, and that of your fellow countrymen that visited the funeral, is a strong message to all directions (within Turkey, and outside of Turkey): The Turkish people deserve a legal framework that respects human rights in the same way the people themselves respect them. I sincerely hope such encouragement from the people will be taken into strong consideration. Your self-identifying Greek friend: NikoSilver :-) 13:02, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

No, there isn't. That's why we have to stress it all the time! :-) NikoSilver 00:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

...moved it to user page

Yeah, no problems. :) Btw, the only thing that the WPTR template does is to link to the todo page, therefore a seperate todo template in cases where WPs are hidden should do the trick - I wasn't sure if you knew about the WPTR thing; if you did just ignore.. Cheers Baristarim 06:17, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:

Thanks, I'll try to find more information, this is very good news though I like :-) Artaxiad 12:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

WPTR small test

Hi, I fixed the template and the small option seems to work fine now. Greetings to Istanbul! Atilim Gunes Baydin 04:58, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi again. I was also thinking to leave the to-do list out for the small version, but I think it could also be needed. So I added a new parameter, no-todolist, to the template, which hides the to-do list in both normal and small versions and can be combined with other parameters. You can see it working here on the right. Regards, Atilim Gunes Baydin 20:06, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 25 February, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Artin Penik, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

--Carabinieri 16:28, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

An article which you started, or significantly expanded, Vakıflı, was selected for DYK!

On February 26, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Vakıflı, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 00:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

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Hey

What do you think of this question? I told him I'm not sure, but perhaps you have an opinion? Khoikhoi 09:56, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

WPAM

Do you know how to install the importance ? to the projects ours is too stretchy if we add the other one it reduces space please, thanks, [6] Artaxiad 20:46, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks lol, I accidental did that I'm trying to find a tutorial quick thanks. Artaxiad 00:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I think I messed it up!!! permanently its not working when I revert it :-( Artaxiad 00:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Agos

Hey Free smyrnan, I uploaded a picture I took of an Agos newspaper cover featuring Hrant Dink's funeral (dated January 26, 2007). I think we should upload this picture on Hrant Dink's article? I added it to the Agos page, check it out. - Fedayee 16:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

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Turkey

Yeah, check out WP:NOPRO. It's no longer on the main page, do you still want me to protect it? Khoikhoi 04:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Category:Armenian terrorism

I think there is enough material to start a category for Armenian terrorism. It starts with the Ottoman Bank Takeover, then there is the Yıldız Attempt, assassination of Talat Pasha, then diplomats and civilians murdered by ASALA and other Armenian organizations. I want to know what you think about the category.--Doktor Gonzo 14:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: wowturkey images

Hi! Thanks for replying to my message. No, I never was able to sort out the wowturkey photos. Basically what I need to know is whether the claim made by the anon editor that the website bans commercial use of its images is true. Thanks, —JeremyA (talk) 03:56, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

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Battles of macrohistorical importance involving invasions of Europe

What has this article todo with Turkey? it is about historiography. I would suggest to remove yours and other national tags or provide some sources on the subject which show that your tag is verified. Wandalstouring 09:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for the barnstar, I'm flattered. So, do you live in Izmir? Atilim Gunes Baydin 23:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Robert College has been nominated GA

Would you like to contribute to the nomination process or peer review the article? SEE: Robert College (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) --Maestro 12:23, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the peer review. I will try to make the necessary changes in a couple of days. Well said and done!--Maestro 08:58, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I tried to make some changes according to the Peer review, including all you mentioned in the talk page to pass GA nomination. I will continue to improve the article alongside your suggestions, which were all perfectly said. Thanks again. --Maestro 13:40, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! With your help, Project Turkey and Wikipedia gained a new Good Article... --Maestro 14:03, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

WPTR

Hi. Question: Was the removal of "Article status" from the bottom of WPTR page an intended one or a mistake only? Happy wikiProjectTurkeyEditing. CeeGee 20:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I agree with your removal. My question was because I didn't find them. CeeGee 06:04, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Hrant Dink

I guess you are currently working. I am going to copy your Hrant Dink page and go backwards. deniz^T_C 13:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, also I think there might be too much confusion, and we might mess it up. So, I am not going to work on it for now. deniz^T_C

Re:

Thanks! don't worry though ;-) Artaxiad 21:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Heh, not sure lol. Artaxiad 21:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh don't worry about that, not sure about it. Artaxiad 21:47, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

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Hi

I am sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner. I also got your e-mail about Turkey appearing in the main page, but I was completely away from the Internet, both wiki and non-wiki, for weeks, so I only got it a week ago. It is a pity that I actually missed it!! I will try to get involved further with Hrant Dink article as soon as possible, but I am trying to keep track of so many things.. :( So how are you otherwise? take care.. Baristarim 15:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

WPTR

Dear Free smyrnan,

• I am trying to organize the Current tasks in the project. I dont have a clear idea that my way is right or not.
• Please check; Wikipedia:WikiProject Turkey/Current tasks and --> Wikipedia:WikiProject Turkey/Current tasks/Maps to see the structure of this work. Please, revise my english/grammar in these page.
• Waiting your oppinions.

Regards.Must.^{T C} 10:38, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

These pages; Wikipedia:WikiProject Turkey/Current tasks/XXXX will be created if there is a need for a spesific task.

This task will be declared in Wikipedia:WikiProject Turkey/Current tasks page firstly.

and then a new page for that task will be created. Task template will be added to this new page. and the definition of task will be take place here, like as Wikipedia:WikiProject Turkey/Current tasks/Maps.

Is it complicated? how we can make more simple? RegardsMust.^{T C} 14:15, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Watch

Please watch my last contributions Special:Contributions/Makalp.Regards.Must.^{T C} 18:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Turkey project !

Free smyrnan, I don't think it is a good idea to go around and place the Turkey Project Member tag on non members pages. Please don't do it. If I decided to be a memebr, it should be on my own accord. Hoşca kal --Mehrdad 07:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi! No intrusion intendend, I did it because I was moving the participants list which was static, to be simply the category, which is dynamic and a much better indication of current members as your message shows! You were on the project participants list, which is why you received the userbox. Old version of the participants' list here. You signed up and forgot about it I guess. --Free smyrnan 07:28, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Thank you for explanation, didn't know I am in that project. --Mehrdad 10:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to the Military history WikiProject!

Hi, and welcome to the Military history WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history.

A few features that you might find helpful:

• Our navigation box points to most of the useful pages within the project.
• The announcement and open task box is updated very frequently. You can watchlist it if you're interested; or, you can add it directly to your user page by including {{WPMILHIST Announcements}} there.
• Most important discussions take place on the project's main discussion page; it is highly recommended that you watchlist it.
• The project has several departments, which handle article quality assessment, detailed article and content review, offline publication, article improvement contests, and other tasks.
• We have a number of task forces that focus on specific topics, nations, periods, and conflicts.
• We've developed a variety of guidelines for article structure and content, template use, categorization, and other issues that you may find useful.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask one of the project coordinators, or any experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! Kirill Lokshin 22:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Moving Denial of the Armenian Genocide

I have suggested that Denial of the Armenian Genocide should be moved to Denial of the Armenian Genocide allegations. I assume that you would be interested in the debate and would like to submit your opinion on the proposal. See: Denial of the Armenian Genocide (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)--Scientia Potentia 16:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Private Sözlük

merhaba. Private Sözlük isimli yazımda clean up ve wikify yapılması gerektiğine ilişkin bir yazı belirdi. yalnız bu yapılması gerkenler hakında en ufak bir fikrim yok. işin kötüsü yapılması gerekenleri okuduğum halde fazla birşey anlamadım. acaba sizin bu yapılması gerekenleri yapmanız mümkün mü? yoksa mutlaka benim mi yapmam gerekiyor? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hebele (talk • contribs) 16:48, 3 April 2007 (UTC).

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