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Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Jewish question (disambiguation)

I am very much interested in your views on the above issues. Cheers (and hope you are well).Ludvikus (talk) 16:25, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

• Thank you Ludvikus. I will take a look. I appreciate your wishes about my well-being, truly. Your sincerely, IZAK (talk) 09:46, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

History of the Jews in New Zealand

Hi IZAK,

I've reverted most of your edits as I didn't feel that copying the life history of two prominent Jewish NZers wholesale onto the page, or the restructuring that this led to, improved the page. Short life summaries might have worked better, but then someone would have to add info on every prominent Jew in New Zealand - and there's been a few, most of them more notable than Polack. I've kept your new categories and the section on relations with Israel. The page certainly needs expanding, but I didn't think that the bios of Vogel and Polack actually cast much light on Jewish life in New Zealand. If you would like another shot at improving the page, a great place to start would be Jewish New Zealanders in the Encyclopaedia of New Zealand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Helenalex (talk • contribs) [1]

• Hi Helenalex: Thanks for your feedback. There was virtually nothing on the History of the Jews in New Zealand page so that adding the names of two of the most notable Jews in the history of the Jews in New Zealnd, one actually being a Prime Minister! was a huge improvement over the empty shell that existed there. I only copied over part of the information from their biography articles, and if you felt that it was legit in any case, you could have trimmed it as that would have helped. I will look it over again. Keep in touch and thanks again, IZAK (talk) 09:39, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Request on AfD

I withdrew the AfD, as per your request. Ecoleetage (talk) 11:26, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

• Thank you so much Ecoleetage, I put in a couple of hours on researching and reworking it. Have a great weekend. IZAK (talk) 11:38, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

The Final Solution

Like I told you before, we're both on the side of goodness.

• Now you should get a laugh when you click on this "good" - not Final Solution - but the The Final Solution. Would you make the demand for the appropriate WP:Move? --Ludvikus (talk) 11:57, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Final Solution to the Jewish Question

Related to this problem I think is the above. The phrase used by scholars, museums, historians, etc., is "The Final Solution." A top Nazi in the Wannsee Conference used the 5-word expression above (once, in the "plan" letter). So the editors there (I'm assuming good faith) feel justified in having that as the title of the WP article. I think it's an insult to the 6,000,000 Jews who died in the holocaust to dignify the article by having WP editors re-create the Nazi usage which is unjustified by what the honorable scholars use. Everyone who's not an anti-Semite uses the expression "The Final Solution" for the Nazi plan, and we all know what if means in the context of European history. Accordingly, the 3-word expression is the appropriate title for our WP article. The 5-word expression is extracted from a final sentence of the Nazi of 1942. Hard to shay "cheers" in this contect, but Cheers to you, brother. --Ludvikus (talk)

The Final Solution

1. Just to keep you posted, my brother, I've succeeded (for now at least), in reducing the above 5 words to the 3 below the above.
2. Apparently, Heydrich used the 5 in a cover letter regarding the Wannsee conference - but that is no reason for us to dignify his utterance with that Capitalized Title, if you get my drift?
3. The common usage is in the 3 words.
4. Anyway, I thought it would be a good deed to update you.

• Shalom! --Ludvikus (talk) 17:57, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVI (April 2008)

The April 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 01:06, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

New Project

Myself and several other editors have been compiling a list of very active editors who would likely be available to help new editors in the event they have questions or concerns. As the list grew and the table became more detailed, it was determined that the best way to complete the table was to ask each potential candidate to fill in their own information, if they so desire. This list is sorted geographically in order to provide a better estimate as to whether the listed editor is likely to be active.

If you consider yourself a very active Wikipedian who is willing to help newcomers, please either complete your information in the table or add your entry. If you do not want to be on the list, either remove your name or just disregard this message and your entry will be removed within 48 hours. The table can be found at User:Useight/Highly Active, as it has yet to have been moved into the Wikipedia namespace. Thank you for your help. Useight (talk) 17:32, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Jewish question

This Article needs badly to be expanded! --Ludvikus (talk) 12:50, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm utterly discusted now with Wikipedia!!! Look at what User:Mikkalai just did (his effective reversion):

The Jewish question connotes Jewish emancipation, removal of legal disabilities, and assimilation in general.

Jewish question may also refer to:

• The Jewish Question, an 1843 essay by Bruno Bauer
• The Jewish Question, a 1912 book by Arno Clemens Gaebelein
• The Jewish Question in the Classroom, a 1937 book by Julius Streicher
• The Jewish Question over Five Centuries, a 1939 book by Julius Streicher
• The Jewish Question, a 1995 book by Yevgenia Albats

I hope I can find the strength to leave Wikipedia, or this part of it, for a while. How you have the will power to work in this environment (and keep your cool), is amazing to me!!! Best, --Ludvikus (talk) 20:39, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Ludvikus: Thanks for staying touch. Sorry that I have not dived in with more gusto into these topics but I am dealing with a number of other writing projects currently. Than you for the compliments. Sincerely, IZAK (talk) 19:05, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Revisionism

You must check this out too, especially the related sub-articles. It may be a cover for the so-call POV idea that out 6 mil. did not really die in the Final solution. --Ludvikus (talk) 18:29, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

• The way that's done is with the POV idea that there really are two kinds of Historical revisionism, the good and the bad.
• The mainstream scholarly view is that there's only one, the bad. --Ludvikus (talk) 18:32, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Historical revisionism = Historical revision (negationism) = Holocaust denial

I'm surprised you haven't responded to my inquery regarding your views on the above. What do you think of the "chutspa"[sic] idea that there's such a thing as good Historical Revisionism? --Ludvikus (talk) 10:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

List of Historical revisionism (revisionist historians)

Keeping you posted, I've created - singlehandedly - the above list. That should make it very clear who, and what, Historical Revisionism - namely, that it is effective just another name for holocaust denial: If it looks like a dock, and it smells like a dock, then it is a dock. Are you going to award me the Star of David WP:Barnstar for this important exposé on behalf of our Jewish people? --Ludvikus (talk) 15:45, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Category:Arab

Hi, as I read it you edited Category: Arab to read " ... any person of the Middle East or North Africa whose mother tongue is the Arabic language;". WP:MoS says only "ethnic Arabs" are to have the term applied to them. I also see that Arab is unable to provide any definitive source for your statement or similar. Do you now have any definitive source - or are we dealing with a fuzzy set here? SmithBlue (talk) 11:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

• Hi SmithBlue: Thank you for contacting me. When I first created Category:Arab it was in June of 2004 [2] when things were still pretty new and to the best of my abilities I attempted to map out some complex topics and categories. I am not sure how much of the following I wrote: "The word Arab is most commonly used to refer to any person of the Middle East or North Africa whose mother tongue is the Arabic language; it is used in this sense for such terms as Arab World, Arab League. In this sense, there are nearly 300 million Arabs." But please note that the phrase "most commonly used" and the generality of it and what follows. I have not edited nor added much to that area in a long time and since then many other editors more intimately familiar with that topic have joined Wikipedia. If you have some questions relating to the subject matter of Category:Arab I strongly suggest that you seek out WP:ARAB and place a request/comment there at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Arab world. Hope this helps and feel free to contact me again if I can be of more assistance. Sincerely, IZAK (talk) 16:50, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Image use rationale

I have tagged your image, Image:Jabotinsky Zion Mule Corps.jpg, as missing a rationale. I noticed it was pretty old, so it might be public domain, but I'm not really sure. If it's really non-free, it needs a rationale for each article it's used in. (ESkog)^(Talk) 15:31, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

• Hi, ok, it is {{PD-Israel-Photo}}. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 19:03, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Category:Jewish texts in Aramaic

IZAK, do you mind a new category for the intersection of Aramaic and Jewish texts? Blueberrybuttermilkpancakes (talk) 02:41, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Categories and User talk:Blueberrybuttermilkpancakes

IZAK see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_May_7#Category:Medieval_sites_in_Irael and the following 29(!) nominations. Johnbod (talk) 00:26, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Image:Nixon greets POW McCain.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Nixon greets POW McCain.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Ferrylodge (talk) 05:36, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Ghetto benches

There I've made some progress - Wikipedia requires me to coincidentally - towards the benefit of the Jewish people. But it's an uphill battle. Your advice and opinions on the matter would be most welcome by me. --Ludvikus (talk) 10:10, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Rfb participation thanks

Hello, IZAK.

I wanted to personally thank you for taking part in the project-wide discussions regarding my candidacy for bureaucratship. After bureaucratic discussion, the bureaucrats decided that there was sufficient significant and varied opposition to my candidacy, and thus no consensus to promote. Although personally disappointed, I both understand and respect their decision, especially in light of historical conservatism the project has had when selecting its bureaucrats. If you have any further suggestions or comments as to how you think I could help the project, please let me know. Once again, thank you for your support. -- Avi (talk) 18:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Rav_Joseph_Soloveitchik.gif

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Rav_Joseph_Soloveitchik.gif. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Rettetast (talk) 20:07, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• Done. -- Avi (talk) 20:15, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, IZAK (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Holocaust denial at Wikipedia

FYI (--Ludvikus (talk) 20:15, 13 May 2008 (UTC))

• Holocaust denial → Historical revisionism (negationism) - The two are essentially the same. --Ludvikus (talk) 19:14, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• Historical revisionism → Revisionist historians - the latter is the "true" name of the so-called "legitimate Historical revisionists" --Ludvikus (talk) 17:57, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
• PS: You took a stand on the Protocols of Zion. This is by far more important. --Ludvikus (talk) 20:15, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

---

CfD nomination of Category:Jews and Judaism by country

Category:Jews and Judaism by country, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. –

I noticed that you had not been notified, IZAK. Cgingold (talk) 17:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

• Dear Cgingold: Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention. IZAK (talk) 22:11, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Rav Kook & gentiles

A heads-up: I've started a discussion, Talk:Abraham_Isaac_Kook#R._Kook_and_gentiles, in response to an editor adding an anti-gentile quote to the Rav Kook entry. I hope you'll join in. Yudel (talk) 19:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Abe Beame 1940s.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Abe Beame 1940s.jpg. You've indicated that the image meets Wikipedia's criteria for non-free content, but there is no explanation of why it meets those criteria. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. If you have any questions, please post them at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions.

Thank you for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 13:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Missing image Image:Jewish synagouge kochi india.jpg

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Image:Jewish synagouge kochi india.jpg, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Image:Jewish synagouge kochi india.jpg is an image page for a missing or corrupt image or an empty image description page for a Commons-hosted image.

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Image:Jewish synagouge kochi india.jpg, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 02:31, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This image was uploaded by User Thunderboltz (talk · contribs) IZAK (talk) 05:29, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

AfD discussion

Hi, Would you care to comment on the AfD discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Caravanim. Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 22:18, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVII (May 2008)

The May 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

'Commissions'?

Hello IZAK, I thought I might ask your opinion. What do you think of the idea I have to put on my user page an offer to do "commissions" or "write articles on request" (for free of course) i.e. offer to research and write up any articles of a certain limited nature (=just Orthodox Rabbonim, have to be deceased already, looking especially for Rabbonim of the 'old school' who were Gedolei Torah and knew shas ba'al peh). I'd ask people to give me names of Rabbonim they would like an article on and I'd try, subject to compatability with the type of article and type of Rov I like writing on, to write a wiki bio of the said Rov. What do you think? {ps I'm also asking User:Redaktor) Lostvelt (talk) 14:51, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Lostvelt: I do not understand why you have to set up such a system. Just choose topics and biographies that you wish to research and write them up and go for it. You, or any editor, does not need "permission" from anyone to create, enhance or develop articles especially if they are to be based on solid research. What don't I get? Best wishes, IZAK (talk) 04:20, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Translate please

Hi IZAK,

I'm Renard from the Hungarian Wikipedia and I'd like to ask for a little help. I've got a photo of a plate in a synagogue in Pápa, Hungary. According to he:User:DGtal who has translated the Hebrew text for me, the last row at the bottom is in Yiddish. Would you be so kind to tell me the meaning of this sentence?

...ין זעעלען ענגעלריין, מאהנע דיעזער שטיין

(the first letters are missing, see the picture)

Thanks you in advance, Renard de hongrie (talk) 23:14, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Renard: Thank you for contacting me. I took at a look at the picture and the words. It's not easy because it's only a fragment of something and evidently it's written in very old Yiddish, something like Old German perhaps with maybe even a Hungarian twist to the words from the time of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. At any rate, it seems like an attempt at rhyming as "שטיין" ("shtein" meaning "stone") rhymes with the "ריין" ("-rein") in "ענגעלריין" ("engelrein") which may be a name for someone). The only words I am pretty sure about are the last two "דיעזער שטיין" which means "this stone" but the use of the word "דיעזער" for "this" in this instance is very archaic Yiddish as in modern Yiddish "this" would be "der" or "dos". Sorry, but I wish I could be of more help. Perhaps try WP:TALKJUDAISM and place arequest for other Judaic editors, and also place a note on the page of User:Jfdwolff who is European and has a familiarity with Germanic languages. Or you can try User:Yidisheryid who is familar with Yiddish and is an editor on the Yiddish Wikipedia. Sincerely, IZAK (talk) 03:15, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Thank you for the comprehensive answer. Even if you don't understand the complete sentence, could you please show me how it should sound like (write down in Latin alphabet)? Thanks, Renard de hongrie (talk) 19:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Looks to me like "..yen zaalen engelrein, mohne diezer shtein" Give or take a syllable or two. IZAK (talk) 06:26, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! Renard de hongrie (talk) 15:44, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Jew GA Sweeps Review: On Hold

As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria and I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I have reviewed Jew and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. In reviewing the article, I have found there are multiple issues that need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. I have left this message on your talk page since you have significantly edited the article (based on using this article history tool). Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix with the assistance of multiple editors. I have also left messages on the talk pages for other editors and related WikiProjects to spread the workload around some. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 07:08, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Yiddish

When Yiddish simply takes a Hebrew/German word and adds no meaning to it, simply assimilating it into usage, I can't see how it is helpful in any way to categorize the word as "Yiddish." I've brought up the question at WikiProject Linguistics. By the way, I have no antagonism toward Yiddish. I don't like Yeshivish because using it often makes one unintelligible to speakers of regular English, which I find rude and somewhat elitist. --Eliyak T·C 17:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Jerusalem FAR

Jerusalem has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. <eleland/talkedits> 21:51, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Judaism Newsletter

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Please help with Shituf

I am writing this to you because you have edited articles on Jewish subjects in the past. There is currently an RfC on the talk page of this article [3].

You can view the difference between the contending versions of the article here: [4].

The page is currently protected from editing for 5 days, but the end result of the article depends on what consensus, if any, is reached during those 5 days. Please help with this RfC. -LisaLiel (talk) 22:02, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVIII (June 2008)

The June 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 19:02, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Texas A&M Hillel

Hello IZAK. The article Texas A&M Hillel has been nominated for a merge. As I believe this subject's 88 year history is notable and well referenced; do you have any advice on how I might improve this article's references and/or expansion? Bhaktivinode (talk) 01:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Bhaktivinode: Thank you for contacting me. I would suggest that you read through as many of the best sources cited in the article already and then EXPAND the article with good quotes and citations descrbing and explaining the importance of the organization on a local, regional, and if possible, national level. 03:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Allegations of apartheid deletion notification

Some time ago, you participated in a deletion discussion concerning Allegations of Chinese apartheid. I thought you might like to know that the parent article, Allegations of apartheid, was recently nominated for deletion. Given that many of the issues that have been raised are essentially the same as those on the article on which you commented earlier, you may have a view on whether Allegations of apartheid should be kept or deleted. If you wish to contribute to the discussion, please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (fifth nomination). -- ChrisO (talk) 17:55, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Burma road

Hi IZAK,
I assume you live in Israel... If so, I would need your help.
Do you know if the main road that linked the coastal plain to Jerusalem after the war was built on the Burma road's trace or if it was another one (south of this one ?), eg along the railroad ?
Thank you ! Ceedjee (talk) 09:08, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Ceedjee: Thank you for contacting me. I cannot give you exact information about this. Please place this question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel. Or click on articles about Israel's roads and cities and pick some editors who seem very active in this field. Let me know how it goes. Sincerely, IZAK (talk) 09:56, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Thank you for your answer and the suggestion !
  • Ceedjee (talk) 13:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Congregation Beth Israel (Lebanon, Pennsylvania)

I added some discussion in the AfD for this article. There are now 24 references, and I went through them one by one, discussing each in the AfD. There's still no notability there. All the references are either self-authored, barely mention the organization, or don't mention it at all. It hasn't received "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject" per WP:NOTE. It's just another nice little non-notable synagogue in Middle America. The rabbi might be notable, but if so, it's going to be for things she did back in Berkeley.

The surprising thing here is that all that effort didn't produce as much as a single article in a real newspaper that was about this synagogue. They've been around for a century, yet they don't seem to have been covered in any significant historical works. This is a very low profile organization.

Usually we get this problem with bands and companies, rather than churches. But WP:ORG applies to churches; unlike high schools, churches are not assumed to be notable. --John Nagle (talk) 18:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• Hi: Thanks for responding. You are coming at this from the wrong perspective. All of Judaism and most of the nitty-gritty of Jewish history for the last 2,000 years is based precisely on these kinds of "nice little non-notable synagogue(s)" and the fact that this one has lasted so long, over one hundred years, is in itself a notable fact by any standard. Also, user Shirahadasha (talk · contribs) had once noted [5] in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chaim Dov Keller that: "...Religious sources and media of notable religious organizations are perfectly acceptable reliable sources to establish notability of religious subjects and figures. Notability in the field, not notability in general media, is the standard, and that is met here. There is no problem I can see that can justify a delete vote..." and the same applies here." Hope this helps, IZAK (talk) 04:04, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

If you want to propose a special notability policy for synagogues, you're free to do so. It's been tried before; see WP:CHURCH. But consensus was against it. Until then, WP:ORG applies, and the same criteria are applied to synagogues and to lodges of the Loyal Order of Moose. --John Nagle (talk) 15:12, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

More templates about Judaism that should not be duplicated

(copied from my talk page) Hi again, Xyz7890: See Template talk:Judaism#Duplication of other templates for many other Judaic and Torah-connected templates, especially: {{Jewish and Israeli holidays}} ; {{Jewish life}} . Thanks. IZAK (talk) 07:11, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I have found that these templates are confusing, and really need to be split. Judaism is not a single category, but is a lot of smaller ones.

I have already created a few Judaism templates, including {{Shabbat}}, {{High Holidays}}, and {{Jewish prayers}}. I have been planning one on Sukkot for the future.

Having one for all the holidays is overwheling. Each major holiday has several categories within, as you can see with these and {{Passover Footer}}. Some of the other ones, like {{Jews and Judaism}} and {{Jewish life}} are too broad, and those are the ones I am concerned about that eventually should be broken down.

The {{Halakha}} one is not complete yet; gradually I am finding more articles and categories for it, though I am omitting it from pages found on the templates of Shabbat and the various holidays. It is more geared to halakha pertaining areas not covered in other templates. Xyz7890 (talk) 20:19, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Xyz7890: Thanks for responding at length. You are missing the point of the general templates. Obvioulsy each topic and aspect of the Mitzvos can be extended in a million directions, because the Torah and its contents are after all infinite. But by reducing the templates to the level of the articles you miss the point that broader templates provide a broader context. In addition, you are creating templates when there are already CATEGORIES and even LISTS for many of the subjects you mention, and it makes no sense that there should be templates that function as "in-your face" templates crowding each page. You must study how articles are to be written and structured and eventually split up if too large, the purposes and use of lists and categories, and the nature and need of templates, none of which should duplicate each other. Hope this helps. Do not be too rash, but seek consensus. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 08:23, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Notability in the field

I was wondering how this would play into our past debates on the notability of such individuals as Rabbi Jonathan Rietti and Rabbi Mordechai Becher. Surely, they are notable in the field of Orthodox Jewish Outreach -- it was hardly a debate that warrented comparison to any random Lubavitch shliach outreach rabbi, who would not be notable in the field. I would appreciate your thoughts on this -- perhaps I am misunderstanding the scope of "field." DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 05:42, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

• Hi: Please see Wikipedia:Content forking and indeed, while the rabbis you mention are known kiruv rabbis in some circles but not all, they are nvertheless definitely not "more" notable than thousands of other kiruv rabbis just like them who work for Chabad, NCSY, Aish HaTorah, Ohr Somayach and many others who do not and will not get articles for themselves on Wikipedia because Wikipedia is not a webhost for any rabbi, see WP:NOTWEBHOST. So consider yourself fortunate that Rabbis Rietti, Becher and Suchard got to be in the Gateways articles and were not deleted altogether. (Gateways SPENDS a lot of money to push and promote its small team of rabbis bloating their real importance) Sincerely, IZAK (talk) 13:23, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Himmler Hitler.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Himmler Hitler.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sdrtirs (talk) 05:53, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIX (July 2008)

The July 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 01:34, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Judaism Newsletter

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• Newsletter delivery by xenobot 02:39, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Camp Ramah in the Poconos edits

Thank you for your help resolving the current leadership section. Without getting into too much detail, there is a small but vocal minority still upset that the last assistant directors contract was not renewed. The board decided instead to split the job into two positions - program coordinator and a year-round Yoetz. All the information can be found at [6] in the staffing update area. I am still a noob - can you advise on how to best reference this? --Dalamaster (talk) 23:22, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Dalamaster: Whenever accusations are made against people in articles on Wikipedia, all alarm bells go off because there have been serious complaints against such editing and it opens up huge cans of worms that have nothing to do with writing a good encyclypedia. In all organizations people are hired and fired but that does not mean that Wikipedia is the place to spill the beans in yellow journalism tabloid style to denigrate, attack and insult people who may have hurt others. Unless information has become a major story that was reported in a number of local or national media sources, or researched and written in reliable publications and books, it is best to avoid inserting contentious details due to concerns of WP:LIBEL, WP:BLP, WP:RS, WP:V, WP:CS and WP:NOT#BATTLEGROUND (read all these policies as a good start in answer to your question of "I am still a noob - can you advise on how to best reference this?") , but rather try to speak in brief generalities in a WP:NPOV way. That is the best advice I can offer for now. Try to avoid "radioactive" and "toxic" disputes and stick to the main subject at hand. Wikipedia is not a place to hold grudges.IZAK (talk) 05:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree and that's what I want to avoid. The current statement on the page howevever is "the camp is currently lacking an assistant director following the dismissal of Toby Ayash in early 2008." The camp doesn't have an assistant director and won't because the position no longer exists. As you can see from the camp newsletter (the pdf above) they broke the job into two positions. Also, she wasn't dismissed - her contract wasn't renewed. I don't want to create a battleground - just make sure the truth is out there. Thanks again.--Dalamaster (talk) 13:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

• Hi again Dalamaster: To say that "The camp doesn't have an assistant director and won't because the position no longer exists" is fine, so put that in. And "they broke the job into two positions" is also ok, but why is that so significant? It's only a staffing issue and does not really impact the history, scope and purpose of the camp and the article about it. That "she wasn't dismissed - her contract wasn't renewed" is a question of semantics but here you are getting into touchy and personal information that people often object to and it would be best not fall into a trap here of direct or indirect attacks against any of the parties, if need be just say when she worked there and when she left, and there is no need to get into seemingly petty issues of how and for what cause people were "let go" or fired because it is damaging and defamatory. To say you want to "just make sure the truth is out there" is tricky but that is exactly the point, some truths need to be backed up with really good sources before they can be posted because it can get you into trouble if those truths come and are stated at the expense of others and obviously meant to hurt, harm and take vengeance upon others which is a nasty business to be avoided. IZAK (talk) 14:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

The Jewish Barnstar

Why did you revert my changes? The new barnstar was more in line with what the other barnstars looked like, and the image quality (in terms of lack of noise) was much better. L'Aquatique[talk] 06:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

• Hi L'Aquatique: I disagree with you. I was the one who worked on that barnstar and there is no problem with the way it was. The way you made it look it was hard to see what was "Jewish" about it with the Star of David lost in the brown overlay of the other star. There is no "law" that says barnstars must look ugly. No changes were needed. I will revert you. Feel free to start a discussion about this and ask for input. IZAK (talk) 14:11, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I'll do that...—Preceding unsigned comment added by L'Aquatique (talk • contribs) [7]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jews in the history of business

I notice in this and other AFD discussions that you have been citing WP:OCAT as a rationale for deleting a list. I don't think this is correct. Many CFD discussions about non-notable intersections are closed as "Listify and delete". Clearly, the intent is to keep the information in the form of a list and not in the form of a category. There is a technical reason for why a list might be alright when a category is not. The current categorization system does not make it easy for users to find category intersections. Because of this, there is the widespread desire of editors to create sub-categories for these intersections. If this were allowed unchecked, there would be a huge amount of category clutter. Over time, we have decided to draw the line on "notable intersections" and those worthy of having an article about the topic. This is not a requirement for lists. I don't think that there is strong community consensus about where to draw the line for articles and lists. There are many lists (like some of the lists of Jews) that could be created with multiple references. The CFD which I closed about Jewish businesspeople is one example. I can understand why people would want some of these deleted from Wikipedia, but I can also see that many people want to create them. Personally, I don't think it is a productive use of our time to delete them all. Instead, I think the lists with just the potential to be problematic should be left alone until real problems manifest, and only be nominated at AFD if it is clear that the problems cannot be fixed. In this case, I believe that a well researched, verifiable article could be written about the history of Jews in business. I think this should be encouraged. -- ☑ SamuelWantman 03:37, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Sam: I have no objections to well-researched articles of any sort but in this case Jews in the history of business is just a rambling and confused list and not much else. There is a serious problem with definitions here as well, what to call "business" (should characters from Dickens also qualify?) since it's not defined, and it can't really be, because the selling and buying of anything could be called "business" and how is that different to trade, commerce, industry, sales, etc? Finally both lists and categories are built upon the same information, see Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and navigation templates, and they often share the same strengths and failings, ("they are synergistic, each one complementing the others") and it is often a cop-out to run from lists to categories or from categories to lists when the problem is really the core trivial and non-consequential information that would plop in either a list or a category. IZAK (talk) 06:25, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Meshulach

Hi Izak, I think your opinion is needed on Meshulach. Another user is trying to change this article to use a transliteration which looks more like Arabic than anything else. It's one of those 'academic' figures whose truth is the one, single, undisputed truth. (Which happens to be false.) I think your intervention would be greatly appreciated. --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 07:41, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

• Hi. Thank you for contacting me. I have left User Dgl (talk · contribs) a request [8] IZAK (talk) 08:14, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Which he simply deleted from his talk page. See there. This is more or less the cooperation that I expected - it is the normal 'academic' way of dealing with such things. "My truth is truth, and anybody else can get lost." How are we going to handle this? --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 13:00, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, that was very rude of him. I have left him another message [9] so that we do not have to take things to the next level of arbitration/mediation. Let's see what he does next. In the meantime may I request that you notify and bring this matter up at WP:TALKJUDAISM where the issue of Hebrew usage has been discussed and where expert Judaic editors can offer their input and support. IZAK (talk) 08:57, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

i do not believe there is anything inappropriate or rude with removing items from my talk page. i use wikipedia rarely precisely because of issues like this -- those with actual academic knowledge are bullied by 'pop experts'.

i hate to prove the individual above correct, but his attitude shows two things: a lack of knowledge of semitic linguistics and a prejudice against arabic (he is offended that hebrew transliteration looks like arabic; well, it does -- because the languages share almost every letter of the alphabet, have similar syntax, numerous cognates/shared vocabulary, etc.). even so, i believe, i only added ḥets (ḥ) and ‘ayins (‘) to the article -- a fairly-minor change.

but if he wants to use an incorrect, incomprehensible, and illogical system, who am i (or the others who apparently edited the page) to stop him? regardless, he will eventually run into someone who cares enough to challenge and correct him. it won't be me -- i learned long ago that i dont have time to waste on wikipedia. as regards you, i encourage you to bring this issue before people who have some academic background in semitic linguistics. cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dgl (talk • contribs) 18:22, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and I feel fully entitled to completely throw your worthless opinion in the trash can and fully ignore it. --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 20:56, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Here on wiki everyone is entitled to there opinion so please remain calm and civil.--Nerguy (talk) 21:13, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi from HG

Hi Izak. How are you? Just dropping you a friendly note (you can delete this). I happened to see your early comments on the Talk:613 Mitzvot and it's great to see that you were once a novice before becoming a gadol (in our wp pond). Keep up all your great work. Kol tuv, HG | Talk 03:15, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

• Hi HG. Yup, I was a real beginner when I started in late 2002, but I stuck it out. There were a couple of very good Judaic editors then who taught me the ropes directly and indirectly, such as User Danny (talk · contribs) who went on to become a key player, employee and leader of Wikipedia, User RK (talk · contribs) a staunch Conservative Jew who was alos a big maverick and got himself blocked, and a few others. I also learned from some antisemites on Wikipedia about what to say and not to say in fighting them, but in recent years I have tried to keep an even-handed approach working. One thing I have never aspired to is to be an admin. Thanks for noticing and thanks for the compliments. I don't know about you, but I love Wikipedia! IZAK (talk) 08:57, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Recreated categories

While I could have deleted some as G4 under WP:CSD, I decided to allow at least some discussion so the three categories you have listed are nominated on todays WP:CFD. Recreations of deleted categories are a difficult issue since you really need to let the bot do the work of emptying the category or doing an upmerge or a merge to another category. If you see more, you probably should open the CfD discussion yourself listing the reason as G4 with some details. That allows an admin to add the delete/merge to the bot queue and reference a discussion. Thanks. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:17, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Vegaswikian: Thank you for your efforts (at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 August 20)! IZAK (talk) 18:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Moshe Tendler

If you check these two articles I think you will agree they should be merged.

1. Moshe Tendler
2. Moshe David Tendler

Unfortunately, I don't know too much about the subject of these articles, so I thought you could help, Thanks.--Nerguy (talk) 20:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

• Hi Nerguy: Thank you for contacting me. Indeed it's the same person and I see that Moshe Tendler has already been redirected to Moshe David Tendler. The need to redirect was not even questionable. See WP:BEBOLD aka WP:SOFIXIT (Policy in a nutshell: "If you see something that can be improved, do not hesitate to do it yourself.") IZAK (talk) 06:13, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks--Nerguy (talk) 12:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)