User talk:Johnbod/22

Thanks for your comments

Thanks for your comments at Sandy's page. I confess I've been swayed by a comment by user:Grondemar who feels the important distinctions are FA, GA, and everything else, so I've spent zero time looking into the gradations between C and B, beyond that which I pick up by osmosis. I'm not pushing to get any article grade changed, but I have considered urging Beebuk to submit some articles he has worked on to GA review. If they really were C class, this would be bad advice, plus it would mean I didn't have a clue as to what it means to be close to a GA. Your comment that the articles could be B class persuades me that I am not completely clueless (at least on this issue. :)--SPhilbrick(Talk) 15:28, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Glad it helped - when you look at the at which speed some people knock off assessments you don't take them too seriously. They are normally a very rough guide & done without much thought on how long a comprehensive article on a particular subject should be. Johnbod (talk) 15:52, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

You messed up the Etymology section of Saint Peter

Why did you do this? A few weeks ago, it was plain and easy to read. Now its full of non-english characters and is hard to read.

Dude I don't mind certain Hebrew or Syriac charactrs, but it has to be more English-friendly. Please fix it. The article is already so often vandalized by daily editors. :( — Preceding unsigned comment added by LoveforMary (talk • contribs) 21:17, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Look at it now - and learn how to read an edit history - I added none of that stuff. Your edits are increasingly erratic; I can see it will end unhappily. Johnbod (talk) 21:20, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

I see only three words not using the Latin alphabet (two Greek and one Hebrew) so I'm not convinced this is a problem. I can't imagine a way of discussing the name without using non-English words. Nev1 (talk) 21:25, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

There was a whole lot of Syriac/Hebrew stuff I booted into a long note just now, which that article has loads of. Johnbod (talk) 21:43, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Sanity check in Immaculate Conception

I'd like to think I'm trying to be patient here, but this is getting on my nerves. Am I off base in insisting that "official dogma" is redundant? Mangoe (talk) 23:59, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

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Question about miniatures

Hi Johnbod - I want to upload this image from Froissart to add to Truce of Leulinghem but am a little put off by the BL claiming copyright. Any explanation for that? By the way, the swoon is quite nice! Truthkeeper (talk) 14:04, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. It's ok, though the logo is a pain. We don't recognise their claim here, under US law (Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.) & it may even be possible to get a logoless version. Several with logos are on Commons. Lovely hangings! Johnbod (talk) 14:14, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Just checking to be sure - the logo is a pain but I can crop it out. I realized after posting here that I haven't checked commons yet. I've been noticing the hangings in these images - but these are particularly nice. Truthkeeper (talk) 14:21, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

You could try cropping the same illumination out of this image of the entire page if you want to preserve the corner... Lithoderm 16:23, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Well spotted! Johnbod (talk) 16:26, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Lith. I'll try that. The manuscripts are so beautiful! Truthkeeper (talk) 16:45, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Back again with another question. Who is the Master of the Getty? [1]. That has me very confused. Thanks, if you can help. Also, good to see the Belles Heures getting attention ... Truthkeeper (talk) 01:01, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

It's "Master of the Getty Froissart" - bio Johnbod (talk) 01:53, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Muhammad images closed

An arbitration case regarding Muhammad images has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:

1. The community is asked to hold a discussion that will establish a definitive consensus on what images will be included in the article Muhammad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), and on where the images will be placed within the article. As with all decisions about content, the policies on verifiability and the neutral point of view must be the most important considerations. The editors who choose to participate in this discussion are asked to form an opinion with an open mind, and to explain their decision clearly. Any editor who disrupts this discussion may be banned from the affected pages by any uninvolved administrator, under the discretionary sanctions authorised in this decision. The decision reached in this discussion will be appended to this case within two months from the close of the case.
2. Ludwigs2 is prohibited from contributing to any discussion concerning Muhammad.
3. Ludwigs2 is banned from the English Wikipedia for one year.
4. Tarc is admonished to behave with appropriate professionalism in his contributions to discussions about disputed article content.
5. FormerIP is admonished to behave with appropriate professionalism in his contributions to discussions about disputed article content.
6. Hans Adler is reminded to engage in discussions about disputed article content with an appropriate degree of civility.
7. Standard discretionary sanctions are authorised for all pages relating to Muhammad, broadly interpreted.
8. The participants in the dispute about depictions of Muhammad are reminded that editors who engage extensively in an intractable dispute can become frustrated, and that it is important to be aware that as editors we are limited in our ability to contribute constructively to a deadlocked disagreement. Our exasperation with a dispute can make us unprofessional or unreceptive to compromise. We therefore encourage the disputants of this case to consider if their participation in the coming community discussion of depictions of Muhammad would be useful, and we remind them that if they disrupt the community discussion they may be banned from the discussion or otherwise sanctioned under the discretionary sanctions provision of this case.

Mlpearc (powwow) 16:13, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

For the Arbitration Committee

My comments on your RFC statements

I'm a bit confused as to where you want me to comment, can you move my point if you'd rather it was made somewhere else? -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:37, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Sure - I'll copy it Johnbod (talk) 20:31, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Discussion regarding WikiProject Christianity

Please see the discussion at User talk:Lionelt#Christianity WikiProject, and make any comments you deem reasonable. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 23:31, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Swoon of the Virgin

Hello! Your submission of Swoon of the Virgin at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Daniel Case (talk) 06:05, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

girih

Hello, I gather you have some interest in islamic art, so I thought I'd ask you for assistance. I recently created the Girih article and proposed it as a DYK article [2]. Its history section has been criticized for paraphrasing one source too closely. It's a fair criticism, I relied heavily on Encyclopaedia Iranica for the historical section of the article, because it seems to be the only source on the Internet that has decent information on the topic. I'll try to rewrite the offending sections but thought it would be good to dilute the contribution of E. Iranica by finding non-Web sources. Would you happen to have any books on the topic that has some information on the art history of girih? If so, would you be able to expand the article a little? --İnfoCan (talk) 16:08, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I've commented there, but I'm concerned that we are getting too many overlapping articles in this area: Girih, Girih tiles, Islamic geometric patterns, Islamic interlace patterns, Zellige, Zellige morocco (groan!), Qashani, not to mention Jali. No need for a new category by the way. What is the relevant term in Arabic & Turkish, btw? Johnbod (talk) 20:51, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

This glossary [3] says the Arabic term is "girih" (but "not a word used in the Gulf"!). I don't know Arabic, so I can't say more. However, looking at English articles about Moorish architecture (like the Alhambra) I do not see it mentioned. In Turkish, I found one lone academic article about an ancient Turkish document describing a 15th century Külliye; in it, among the description of the ornamentation of the buildings, the word girih is used correctly (but the author of the article seems to be unfamiliar with it, he guesses at its meaning). Many people seem to know the concept, talk about it in detail but call it just "Islamic art". The term has been popularized again by Gulru Necipoglu who wrote a book on the Topkapi Scroll, and, especially, the 2007 Science article about the girih tiles. There are many recent Turkish Web pages that mention the Science paper. --İnfoCan (talk) 21:33, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I haven't looked at my books, & I probably will have relevant stuff - don't know when I'll get to that - not in the next couple of weeks anyway. At some point we want to merge some of these articles I think. Islamic interlace patterns, which uses very old sources, should probably go into this for example. Johnbod (talk) 22:55, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I see your comment at the DYK nomination for Girih and I wonder whether you'd be amenable to adding a checkmark to it so it can be promoted? I read you as saying that in your view the concerns that were holding up the nomination have been satisfied. Sorry, I know you're busy, but it seems we have quite a backlog over there. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:11, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks

Although I have some disagreements, espceially relevance, I did want to thank you for setting out such a cogent and well thought out point summary at "Ice Age art." (That's perhap an interesting comment on ice thawing) Alanscottwalker (talk) 19:29, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

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Mediation about the Muhammad images RFC

Just to let you know I've opened a request with the Mediation cabal about the Muhammad images RFC. Please see the mediation request if you want to comment. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 14:31, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Query

Regarding this edit, are you sure the article you have linked is applicable. The Funerary Monument to Sir. John Hawkwood is a fresco, not a panel. Am I missing something here? Savidan 04:54, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

See below; the article does mention frescos, & the procedure is largely the same. Johnbod (talk) 13:44, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Transfer of frescoes

Thanks for the improvements to stipple engraving and transfer of panel paintings, especially for all the links to the latter which I couldn't be bother to do. I'm not sure, though, that it's useful to link transferred frescoes to it. I'm hoping write to a separate article on the subject in the next week or two, though as I'm starting from a position of complete ignorance, nothing can be guaranteed.Ruskinmonkey (talk) 11:36, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

I wondered about that, but my thought was it was best to cover all transfers in the same article for now. transferred to canvas should redirect there. You get other things like the Goyas - oil on wall to canvas, vellum to canvas, canvas to panel etc etc. Just Transfer of paintings or something might be better. Johnbod (talk) 13:43, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Maybe, but I always find concise articles easier to read - and the panel article needs a bit of expansion, for instance about the declining enthusiasm for the practice, the use of new panel rather than canvas, and the exact procedure for attachment (which seemed to involve ironing). Covering all the techniques in the one article could make it rather baggy and confusing. Transfer of wall paintings might be better than transfer of frescoes, and would cover most of the ground not dealt with in the panel article.Ruskinmonkey (talk) 14:38, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

The article can grow a good deal and still be concise, & you can't start articles for all the permutations. The basic principles are I think the same anyway. The 19th century loved ironing paintings & large numbers still on their original canvas have been ironed (setting silks & delicates). Johnbod (talk) 14:58, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Can we make that Detachment of wall paintings as it affects not just the painting but the monument. WIll upload shortly, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 19:19, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

CFD comment

Your sarcasm directed at me is USELESS, because I don't even notice it until almost a week later. BWAWHAWHAWHA ... Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:41, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Swoon of the Virgin

Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:11, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Ecclesia and Synagoga

The DYK project (nominate) 16:37, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Edmund Sharpe

I've added some more refs, and a section on Hughes' credentials on the talk page. The article has today been submitted for peer review. Looking at the "volunteers" list, it seems that you might be the most appropriate reviewer; are you interested? Cheers. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 12:02, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. I'll work on it. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 11:06, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Farms near Auvers (Van Gogh)

Hi Johnbod,

I see you have edited at Farms near Auvers, which I've just been editing. I'm planning to contribute stubs for the entire Auvers period. I'll be working backwards in the catalogue I think. All welcome to join! I suggest we take Farms as our model. LornaDooneBlackmore (talk) 16:49, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, not my period & I doubt I'll be adding much. It might be better to start with an overall article on the period rather than a load of stubs. Johnbod (talk) 02:07, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Request

Hi Johnbod,

Could you please have a look at Nasturtiums (E.Phillips Fox) that I have just put up? I want to use it for outreach and would therefore like its markup to be exemplary. Also want to suggest it for DYK and am hoping there are no big flaws. Thanks, appreciate it. Whiteghost.ink 02:34, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Should be fine for DYK. Not all the web cites have access dates folderol etc. Nice article. Johnbod (talk) 03:34, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks very much! Yes, "renowned" is not such a good word. And yes, Australian dollars (adding that came to mind overnight)  :) Whiteghost.ink 07:50, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

CfD

Hey John. I've invoked your name at the "arts"-related Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_February_17#Category:Wikipedians_by_media_interest and thought you might have a take on this fairly routine CfD. best, Shawn in Montreal (talk) 00:29, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Funny

This edit made me laugh! [4]. That page is a mess. Good to see you working on it. Truthkeeper (talk) 03:11, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes - many pages like that have hardly had substantive improvement in years. Good to see you cheerful anyway, with so much doom & gloom around! Johnbod (talk) 03:18, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

It's one of those huge topics that needs lots of sources - whenever I look at it my eyes spin. I've had Beowulf on my watchlist for ages, hoping to get to that someday, but I never get there, or when I do get there to tidy, it's quickly overturned. I've decided to ignore the doom and gloom and carry on. Truthkeeper (talk) 03:23, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Good; I gave Beowulf a better pic from the MS a while back, if that encourages you. Johnbod (talk) 03:26, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed that. It's a huge amount of work and I don't have the sources I need. Not my period either - but I keep it on my watchlist as a reminder of work to be done - as though there isn't enough. Truthkeeper (talk) 04:18, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

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Requested move at Talk:Arabesque (Islamic art)#Requested move

You may be interested in Talk:Arabesque (Islamic art)#Requested move. TimBentley (talk) 17:00, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Garden categories

I have put the Islamic garden category back on 'Types of garden now. Is List of garden types not enough for those who are looking for something on one page? Perhaps it needs some expension and indenting? See also WP:Subcategorization.

My suggestion for now would be to repost your and my comments on the Talk page of Category:Types of garden, and ask opionions of other editors too. Wiki-uk (talk) 17:44, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Ok, but hardly anyone watches category talk pages. The discussion should be notified to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening & probably the Iranian, India and Islam project talks too. Do you want to do it? Johnbod (talk) 17:50, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Image tagging for File:Benefits Supervisor Sleeping.jpg

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Rudyard Kipling and Bombay Presidency and British raj

You also forgot to edit the main article where the two terms are used in describing Kipling's birth place. Also Bombay is now called Mumbai so why did you leave it as Bombay in the infobox? To truly be consistent you should also change that to the modern place name Mumbai and perhaps also include the modern state of India in which Mumbai lies, Maharashtra. Please explain. Dabbler (talk) 01:55, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

On the contrary, I added it to the main article! Place of birth in an infobox is a geographical statement; the article text should have the historical background. I'm indifferent between Mumbai & Bombay - many outside India have not got used to the former yet. Hope that helps. Johnbod (talk) 04:22, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

I checked out the Talk page archive Rudyard Kipling/Archive 1#Mumbai - Bombay and this was all discussed at some length in the context of Mumbai- Bombay. Admittedly I was one of the main proposers and arguers for the historical usage but that is what the editors at the time finally agreed was the correct method. In the light of this former consensus would you please reconsider or at very least take it to the Talk pages again to re-open the discussion before changing that consensus? After all India as a unified entity and nation did not exist until after 1947, before that, during Kipling's life there were the British ruled parts, the British raj, of which Bombay was one principal city and the princely states which were separate nations, albeit under British oversight, not for nothing was it called the sub-continent. Dabbler (talk) 09:24, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

I have not changed Mubai/Bombay. I won't repeat the principle for a 3rd time, but it seems this has not been considered, & you still don't seem to get it. Infoboxes (see the guideline) should only be used for simple unambiguous details, which a geographical place is, but a historico/political statement very often is not (simple enough in this case I accept). Many articles do not follow this principle, but they should. Johnbod (talk) 12:44, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Would you accept the formula used for Gandhi and Jinnah? They have the correct historical birthplace details and then add the modern one immediately afterwards as in (now in Gujarat, India) and (now in Sindh, Pakistan)? That seems to me to be a reasonable compromise between the two positions as you don't seem to understand that modern India is not the same geographically as the historic British India. Dabbler (talk) 16:18, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

I understand perfectly that Bombay/Mumbai IS IN INDIA. The infobox is NOT the place for going into complicated political history - just use the CURRENT GEOGRAPHY. How many times do I need to say it? Do that in the text, where there is room, but also include the modern state. The Gandhi article illustrates the problems perfectly, and should certainly be changed. Read WP:INFOBOX. This is the cruftification of WP that people who can't write articles infect us with. Johnbod (talk) 03:42, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Just curious, and seriously as an English speaker who trieds to use the language for clear communication, what does this strange word "cruftification" mean? Is is some in-speak that only true Wikipedians understand? The rest of us who only start a few articles and edit only some are not permitted to be admitted to the higher understanding? I onluy ask because I want to know. Dabbler (talk) 11:08, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Never mind I found it to be insulting geek speak. Dabbler (talk) 11:13, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't directing it at you. Johnbod (talk) 12:58, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening invitation

Hello, Johnbod: Thank you for your contributions to Horticulture – or Gardening – related articles. I'd like to invite you to join WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening, a WikiProject to improve horticulture and gardening articles on Wikipedia and coverage of these topics. If you would like to participate or join, please visit the project page for more information. Thanks! Northamerica1000(talk) 03:33, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Brussels tapestry

The DYK project (nominate) 09:18, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Fellows v. Blacksmith/archive2

I have responded. Do you have any images to suggest? Savidan 23:46, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid not, & I have yet to read the article properly. Johnbod (talk) 00:17, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I have made some edits and responded. Savidan 19:42, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

It's a shame we aren't seeing eye to eye on this one. I've found your FAC comments helpful in the past. Savidan 01:05, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm still being kept busy with my own, and other things & I don't think I'll have time for a full review, and certainly not if I have to point out each thing individually. I'm sure the quality is there but the article does need making more accessible. Johnbod (talk) 01:53, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Any better now that I've created Marshall Court? Savidan 17:42, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Slightly I suppose, but the old link at least explained it without leaving the page. These constructions are uniquely American as far as I know. Johnbod (talk) 18:30, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

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Ice age art --> Muhammad ______

Hi there is a request by Elonka in the Introduction discussion at the mediation to move or re-title your page and it's talk. Thanks. Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:07, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I've said that's fine. Johnbod (talk) 12:21, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Response

In response to this, the unanimous court joined the opinion, not just the judgment. To join only the judgment, the judges would have to note that they concur in the judgment only, including by writing a concurrence. Savidan 18:50, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh, didn't see that you made the same comment at FAC. I'll respond there. Savidan 18:52, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Feedback on Muhammad images

So, I've been digging around for feedback on a little tool I proposed-- for those who don't have a "hide all images" button right in browser, instead of making people jump through techy solutions, we should just give them the 1-click-to-view-without-images button that tech users already have. Screenshots ARE available :) Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Muhammad images/Functional hatnote demo.

Basically, in contacting you, I'm hope to wind up with my humble little proposal being the switzerland in the giant world war that is the Muhammad Image debate. A "click here to hide images" button isn't a moral debate, it's a software debate. Our current software workflow takes like six clicks and a very skilled user. I have a script that does the same thing in one click for an unskilled user. It's not part of the "main" debate here, it's geek side issue.

Or so I hope, anyway. It may not get any consensus at all. --HectorMoffet (talk) 09:26, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Netherlandish

You prob already know this, but there is a wealth of articles, journal pieces and JSTOR type stuff at the Met website. Start here and follow the links. [5]. From these, I might have a crack at adding a sect on illuminated manuscripts to the early netherlandish page; can you keep an eye pls if I slip up and maybe advise on imgs. I could seriously use your help and input on that page at some stage - I'm only learning as I go along; I dont have a "birds eye" view yet. The scope and italian sections are fairly weak for starters, though I have enough material now to rewrite. Tks if you have the time and inclination, but no worries either way. Ceoil (talk) 15:20, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

British Museum prints & drawings images

Hi. Good to talk to you at the meet-up this afternoon.

Here's an example of the image issue I was talking about:

• 1803 print of St John's College Old Bridge, from BM prints & drawings database
• Image of the same print, from an online gallery.

What I think is happening is that the BM image has been reduced using a "decimate" algorithm (also called eg "no interpolation" or a "point" algorithm). This produces problems, particularly in monochrome images of etchings, when spatial frequencies in the original high-resolution image clash with the pixel periodicity of the reduced resolution (an issue called spatial aliasing). This can be fixed by filtering out the spatial frequencies causing the problem. Some benefit can be obtained by simply averaging over all the several pixels in the original high-res image that will contribute to a coarser reduced-resolution pixel (known as using a box filter); but better results can be obtained with a purpose-designed filter, eg the Lanczos filter.

Here are some examples created by using various options with the ImageMagick program to reduce a test image, to show the kind of differences that different filtering options can make. (The thumbnails don't show much, but click through to see the difference):

• 
  Original image
• 
  Decimation
• 
  Box filter
• 
  Lanczos filter

I don't know how widespread the problem is, but all the results from the search query that I originally used seemed to be affected, and other engravings too.

The issue tends to be a lot less pronounced and less visible with colour images, because they typically don't contain the same repeated structures as the lines in engravings. But it can produced rather spotty thumbnails (expand eg image right for an example; again, click through to properly see it), which I do think I see quite a lot on the BM prints website, so it may be that their apparent use of "decimation" is in fact quite widespread.

Assuming the original full-resolution scans are readily available to the BM, it should be comparatively straightforward to loop over them in a fairly simple way to produce new candidates for reduced-resolution images for whole directories at a time. For example, using ImageMagick the last test image above was obtained simply with the command

 convert kcc.jpg -filter Lanczos -resize 50% kcc_im_lanczos.jpg

which could easily be scripted into a loop; and I'm sure that whatever more sophisticated software the BM uses would have similar functionality.

Anyhow, that's the basis of what I wanted to show you, so I hope that this is something that could be progressed through the appropriate channels.

All best, Jheald (talk) 23:07, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Please see here

Talk:East_Francia#Merger_proposal Thanks! Mootros (talk) 06:37, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

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DYK for Lindau Gospels

Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:28, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Seeking consensus

Hi Johnbod, and thanks for participating in the drafting of the Muhammad images RfC. I encourage you to continue editing it. However, instead of repeatedly reverting it to your own preferred version, perhaps you could try to offer compromise wording? That will be the best way to move forward, thanks. --Elonka 05:07, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Not really. The "Ice Age" stuff had already been discussed and adjusted by several people - rather more than are currently editing the RFC draft - and also approved by Gruber. We should stick to it as far as possible. Your last two changes are just odd: Islamic / Western is a perfectly straighforward and informative division and there is no point trying to twist it into something else that will just puzzle people. If necessary we should take remaining questions back to the talk page for a wider view and a vote. There is absolutely no reason not to call Ilkhanate images from the Jami Islamic. Johnbod (talk) 13:28, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Johnbod, if you keep reverting my text wholesale, I'm eventually going to report you for edit-warring. So please, stop it. If you'd like to suggest a compromise, I'm listening, but this repeated wholesale removal of my additions is getting old. --Elonka 05:45, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

We are discussing this at the talk page; let's keep it there. Johnbod (talk) 12:25, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Ueno Park

There has been a new ALT2 proposed for this DYK nomination. As you are the reviewer of the nomination—and the one who requested an improved hook—could you give the new hook a quick review and a final check mark (or request for further changes)? Thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 16:07, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Congrats! and manuscripts MANUSCRIPT CLEANUP

Was just logging out, checked my watchlist and saw that St. Cuthbert's has been promoted. Congratulations, very nice job! Btw - don't know whether you have them on your watchlist, but a lot of activity of Berry's books of hours ... Truthkeeper (talk) 15:04, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, and thanks for your support! I hadn't noticed in fact. I'll check out Berry, which is on my list but I hadn't been following. Johnbod (talk) 15:47, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm. I'll wait to see if he's finished & then I think merge back most of the old content he's just removed, & tidy up. Johnbod (talk) 15:54, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

It's just Très Riches Heures du Duc de Berry affected, yes? Johnbod (talk) 15:56, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

And these: Hours of Jeanne d'Evreux, Belles Heures of Jean de France, Duc de Berry. All different accts, but... those are the three on my watchlist that so far have been re-worked. I thought the same as you - wait and then tidy. Truthkeeper (talk) 16:02, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Interesting! Those 2 are certainly big improvements, if needing tidying up. At least none look like copyvio. Tres Riches seems to use French sources, and the other 2 English. No action on Turin-Milan Hours/Très Belles Heures de Notre-Dame de Duc Jean de Berry, which is originally probably Berry, nor on Holy Thorn Reliquary or Royal Gold Cup. I'll try to find out what is going on. Johnbod (talk) 16:10, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Add Bible moralisée to the list! Johnbod (talk) 21:50, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi! John, in answer to your question, I'm not currently aware of any classes that might be focusing on John Duc de Berry's books of the hours (such a narrow focus, too!), but I'm reaching out to find out if anyone else in the EP knows about this. Very odd activity, indeed! Rob SchnautZ (WMF) ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:40, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks - add Lindisfarne Gospels, so the 5 articles now cover a range of illuminated manuscripts. Johnbod (talk) 15:49, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Back with an answer, but not one of much consequence. The students are not registered with the Wikipedia Education Program (that's the Foundation-funded program that currently includes the U.S., Canada, and Brazil). These edits are probably being done by students participating either in one of the Chapter-funded programs or one of the various independent programs, like WP:Schools and universities project. Sorry for the (likely) disappointing answer! Rob SchnautZ (WMF) ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:39, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Ok thanks for looking - I suspect they may not be in touch with any programme at all. There was a similar outbreak in April 2010, see Talk:Illuminated_manuscript#Student_class_project.3F. The quality seems a bit better this year. Johnbod (talk) 21:18, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

And Tetramorph. Johnbod (talk) 17:55, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

and ? what is now treasure binding? Johnbod (talk) 14:56, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Where there is a sort of evidence trail. Johnbod (talk) 14:04, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

• add Virgin of Jeanne d'Evreux, Virgin of Paris, Johnbod (talk) 17:36, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
• and Special:Contributions/M9lam this one - March 16

Muhammad

Johnbod, I think the RfC looks pretty good. Well done. I've made two small additions to the background section which I'm hoping are acceptable: [6] If you're happy with those, green light from me. JN466 08:52, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm ok with those. Can you give the "green light" at Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/11_February_2012/Muhammad-images#Finalizing_Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment.2FMuhammad_images, or maybe start a new section. You've been quiet! Johnbod (talk) 12:27, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

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A bag of 100 kittens for you!

In celebration of 100,000 edits, please accept a sack of 100 Lolcats for you to enjoy throwing at vandals in your short breaks from tireless article improvement and GLAM programme initiatives.

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Thanks! I won't tell the cat. Johnbod (talk) 13:15, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Mais oui!

Hi. The above editor is continuing to plough on with their mass replacement of references to the United Kingdom - either in text or categories - with ones to constituent countries of the UK. A few examples from today: [7], [8], [9] and [10], although to merely view this editors edit history is telling.

It is patently clear that these edits form part of a WP:CAMPAIGN. Do you think that there is anything which could be done to curb this behaviour? Thanks. Rangoon11 (talk) 19:18, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Of course they do, but he is being relatively careful these days. There is a history here but I don't know it. I'm not sure what can be done. Have you tried the UK project? Johnbod (talk) 19:56, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

It's true that he seems to pursue the campaign in bursts, presumably in an attempt to mask the activity, although a single burst can affect a very large number of articles. I haven't approached anyone else about this yet, I decided to sound you out initially because I remembered your involvement at SSE plc on this point, and because of your general level of experience. I might post something on the UK project page. Rangoon11 (talk) 20:08, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

I think he just does an hour or two when he has nothing better to do, or someone from London has annoyed him on the telly, which I expect is frequently. Is there a policy on campaigning, btw? WP:CAMPAIGN isn't it. Johnbod (talk) 20:20, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Apologies you're right that link is not relevant. I will try and locate the relevant policy/guideline, which I remember reading last year sometime. Rangoon11 (talk) 20:37, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Grandes Heures of Anne of Brittany

The DYK project (nominate) 10:15, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

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+ a picture collection, assembled in a rush to complement a painter who was on the Main page today, - room for improvement if you look at many more artists and paintings on de ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:07, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Do you have some time for a peer review?

Hi. I've noticed your comments at FAC, and I respect your abilities. I'm working on an article, Smith Act trials of Communist Party leaders, preparing it for FAC. Do you have time to do a peer review of it? It is a very fascinating topic, and you won't be bored. The PR page is here. If you don't have time, thanks for considering it anyway. Cheers. --Noleander (talk) 01:08, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Ok, I'll take a look but probably not for a few days. Johnbod (talk) 01:16, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Romanticism

Sorry to bother you while you're working so furiously, but wanted to tell you that I can add in references regarding the fairy tales - have them right at my finger tips! - if you'd like. I might find other references lying around, regarding lit, if that would be helpful. I don't want to edit conflict you, so post to let me know when you'll be gone and I'll sneak in then to add what I have. Nice job, btw! I thought about tackling this but to be honest I don't know enough. I was impressed when I saw you begin the work & still impressed. Truthkeeper (talk) 14:12, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh, thanks, please do. I'm going to water the garden now. I know more than when I started, but it's still rather a mess. Thanks Johnbod (talk) 14:16, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I've added one for the fairy tales, but needs to be added to the sources too. I can find references for the romantic movement in American lit and will add those in too. It's looking much better than it was - it's a huge topic! Back later. Truthkeeper (talk) 14:43, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Middle Ages

Thanks for the edits... and are there any pictures that you think are wrongly chosen or pictures I should include? I've got a bit more research to do before I consider the thing FA worthy - including some on Late Medieval Art - but I figured I'd get your input on the picture choices now... Ealdgyth - Talk 20:31, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I'll return to it over the next couple of days. The 2 art sections are pretty short & use general sources, so I may expand a bit. Johnbod (talk) 03:42, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal: Case update

Dear Johnbod/22: Hello, this is to let you know that a Mediation Cabal case that you are involved in, or have some connection with:

Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/11 February 2012/Muhammad-images

is currently inactive as it has not been edited in at least a week. If the issues in the case have been resolved, please let us know on our talk page so we can close the case. If there are still issues that need to be addressed, let us know. If your mediator has become inactive, also let us know. The case will be closed in one month if it remains inactive. You can let us know what's going on by sending a message through to your mediator, Xavexgoem, on their talk page. Thanks! MedcabBot (talk) 18:08, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Edmund Sharpe FAC

I've had a go at what I think you have requested. Is this suitable, or do I need to go further, or seek more help? --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 15:45, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

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Fanelli sculptures from Welbeck?

Ideally the article Welbeck Academy I have just done would have an image of a Francesco Fanelli sculpture from Welbeck Abbey, commissioned by William Cavendish, 1st Duke of Newcastle around 1630 to 1640. There is a near-miss in the Fanelli article: it is very like equestrian bronzes that would fit, but isn't one. The V&A has plenty of his works, but of course the images are not usable here. Since these are close to kitschy, if that word applies to the 17th century, and the Fanelli workshop did many similar works, I think art historians aren't too bothered anyway. Just mentioning in case there might be a free source that comes to mind. George Vertue knew all about them. Charles Matthews (talk) 15:35, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Done. Actually the photo has only been on Commons about a week - part of the fabulous haul of c20,000 images from the Walters Art Museum. They were presumably cast in editions & I don't know if any known to have belonged to Cavendish are traceable, so this will do fine I think. Johnbod (talk) 15:53, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Charles Matthews (talk) 16:02, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

On a side note, there is a slip on some of the V&A pages about which Duke of Newcastle this is. I have floated with a couple of people the idea that one aspect of GLAM, which could "add value" to relationships, would be to set up a portal or one-stop shop so that people like me who see these things often enough wouldn't have to hunt around for how to contact the institution and comment in a format they'd want to have. This is to kick around as a concept. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:11, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Need your valuable feedback

Hi John!

I need your valuable feedback here. I hope you see the point. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! Thank you! :) Brendon is here 08:00, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

JSTOR

(Cross posting to everyone who commented in the JSTOR discussion on WT:FAC)

I have now created Wikipedia:Requests for JSTOR access. Feel free to sign up. Raul654 (talk) 20:32, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

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Dispute resolution survey

Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite Hello Johnbod. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released. Please click HERE to participate. Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts. You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang DR goes to Wikimania! 11:33, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Hilliard?

What do you think, early Hilliard? 1572 or 73, so the dates would work... :-) (Zeeuws Museum says 1572-73, which is consistent with the clothes and hairstyle.)

It doesn't appear to have been out of Holland since it was sent abroad. I wonder if anyone like Strong has ever even seen it? (Ah, that frisson of discovery....) - PKM (talk) 23:23, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Looks ok to me, but I'm no connosser! Johnbod (talk) 03:44, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

There...

I've substantially improved two "core" articles - Middle Ages and William the Conqueror. Daddy-John, can I go back to obscure horses and clergypersons now?? (grins). Ealdgyth - Talk 20:08, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Of course - well done! I'm just starting to retouch the arty bits of MA & will not get thwe ref/cite formats quite right. Is there meant to be a Late MA equivalent section? Johnbod (talk) 20:13, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm having severe difficulties finding current survey books on any aspect of the Late MA - they just don't exist. I really don't wanna depend on Huzinga, that's a bit dated. There is still a good bit I'd like to add into the MA article - some military stuff, a bit more social/economic stuff, but it's certainly at a good enough spot for GA right now. If you have something on the later MA in art/architecture, go ahead and add it and I'll tweak the cites for you afterwards - I know your aversion to templates. Ealdgyth - Talk 20:19, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you soooo much for the edits to Middle Ages. I've gone through and fixed the refs - but otherwise everything looks pretty good. I may copyedit a hair, but thank you thank you thank you. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:58, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Tanks! I need to add some refs, & tinker a little, but I won't make it much longer at all. An interesting excercise in compression! Johnbod (talk) 03:44, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Request for help in images

Given your status as one of our most knowledgeable editors regarding religious art, I think if you would have any ideas for images of churches and/or artwork which might be useful for inclusion in the Christianity newsletter, the next one of which is at Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Outreach/May 2012, I at least would be very grateful. The talk page might be a good place to propose images, singular or multiple, if you so desire. John Carter (talk) 22:32, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Not sure what to suggest, but you might find something on the articles on my user page, or the new stuff at Category:Collections_of_the_Walters_Art_Museum on Commons. For Easter this English alabaster is nice, or there's a detail version. Johnbod (talk) 03:44, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

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Dilettanti

Might be your kind of thing. The immediate problem is the image in John Smyth (1748–1811), and the verbose caption I have added: the identifications in the group portrait should be on the Commons description page, clearly. I suppose there are much better references; and are all these young blades notable? There are two Reynolds paintings of groups of Dilettanti, and what we have on Commons are two engravings, which certainly could be improved and replaced in articles. And that leaves aside buffing up Society of Dilettanti. I once failed to buy a biography of William Hamilton (diplomat) second-hand, which is unlike me. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:52, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Eek - no doubt they all held ministerial jobs so are notable - more middle-aged blades aren't they? Not really my period; I didn't realize they were still going. Do we know which club the Reynolds are in? Brooks? I can't believe the modern "references" on the society article have been seen. Wetman might take an interest. Johnbod (talk) 12:02, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

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Hi Johnbod!

I really need your feedback, again. Made some changes and finally it is ready, I guess. Click here. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! Thank you!

--Brendon is here 00:17, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Oh, that party's over, though there's some shouting in the street. Johnbod (talk) 23:58, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

You're right. Thanks! Brendon is here 12:29, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

FYI

FYI. History2007 (talk) 02:09, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Main page appearance: St Cuthbert Gospel

This is a note to let the main editors of St Cuthbert Gospel know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on April 17, 2012. You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/April 17, 2012. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director Raul654 (talk · contribs) or his delegate Dabomb87 (talk · contribs), or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:

The St Cuthbert Gospel is a 7th-century pocket gospel book, written in Latin, placed in the tomb of Saint Cuthbert at Lindisfarne, probably a few years after he died in 687. Its finely decorated leather binding is the earliest known Western book-binding to survive, and the whole book is in outstanding condition for its age. It was probably made as a gift from Monkwearmouth-Jarrow Abbey, where it was written, intended to be placed in St Cuthbert's coffin when his remains were placed behind the altar at Lindisfarne in 698. It presumably remained in the coffin through its long travels after 875, forced by Viking invasions, ending at Durham Cathedral. There the book was found inside the coffin and removed in 1104, and kept with other relics, and important visitors were able to wear the book in a leather bag around their necks until the English Reformation. It has been on long-term loan to the British Library, who in July 2011 launched a campaign to buy the book for £9m ($14.3m) from the British Jesuits. The library describe it as "the earliest surviving intact European book and one of the world's most significant books". (more...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm around now. I'll make the change we discussed shortly. Raul654 (talk) 22:52, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Done. Raul654 (talk) 23:04, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Brilliant, thanks - I'm just going to update the article now. Johnbod (talk) 23:10, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Just wanted to say how wonderful this is. A beautiful article about something so beautiful and significant and hitherto unknown (to me). Ah, how satisfying to have learned about it! So glad it made it to the front page. Whiteghost.ink 00:48, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Johnbod (talk) 00:56, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Purely by chance I'm working on Thomas Allen (mathematician) and his library today. If I had to hazard a guess, the Gospel might have gone to his friend Robert Hegge who worked on Cuthbert. In which case it might have ended up with a nephew Stephen Hegge (ODNB). Which would leave only a century gap! Purely speculative, but intriguing. In any case Allen is known to have passed many of his manuscripts in his lifetime, so who knows. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:55, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

St Cuthbert Gospel

Don't try to tell me what to do again. Rreagan007 (talk) 01:19, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Precious

	casing of art
	Thank you for casing in your articles the treasures of art, books and knowledge, like some medieval manuscripts were luxuriously bound in gold, silver and jewels, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:05, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

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St Cuthbert Gospel: Moving pictures

Hi Johnbod,

I've just partially restored your reversion on St Cuthbert Gospel. Please look at the talk page before changing. Thanks. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 16:24, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Talk:St_Cuthbert's_coffin#Lead_too_long

Please see Talk:St_Cuthbert's_coffin#Lead_too_long. — MrDolomite • Talk 17:50, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Casket with Scenes of Romances (Walters 71264)

The Bushranger <sub>One ping only</sub> 00:06, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Edmund Sharpe again

Thanks for your contribution to the FAC. I am no expert in architecture (as, judging from your excellent articles, you are), and frankly I am confused about all these terms. Even using the sources you suggest, I do not feel adequate to produce the sort of critique you are requesting. So I should be most grateful to accept your offer to add this material to the article; I am absolutely happy to share any credit for the article's becoming a FA with you.
In fact my intention was for this to be a biography rather than an article on architecture. I fear that a railway expert might demand more on Sharpe's controversies over what is now the West Coast Main Line, the "Little" North Western Railway, the Morecambe Bay Harbour Project, and the Conwy Valley line, to say nothing of the ventures abroad, if this were to be considered to be a "railway" article, which of course it is not. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 09:50, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Ok, but I'm just going away for the w/e so it won't be until next week. Johnbod (talk) 11:34, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

That's fine; no rush. Thanks.

New essay/rant

Please take a look at User:Chaos5023/Why your entire way of thinking about the Abortion Article Titles RFC is wrong. It should clarify why refactoring to Abortion debate is a poor solution. —chaos5023 (talk) 22:45, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Self publishers

Hi, FYI, at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Wikipedia_reliability a drive to slow down self-published book references is getting started. Would you like to join that project? Membership is free. History2007 (talk) 21:12, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Category:Christophanies in the Old Testament

I think it's helpful and necessary. I had created a "Theophanies" category, but I think with the examples given, "Christophany" is the phrase most commonly used. Obviously this is very interpretive - only Christian interpreters would consider it a Christophany, and not certainly not all Christian interpreters at that. But it's a notable concept, and a source of many interesting debates. I had thought of having a category name like "Claimed examples of Christophanies in the Hebrew Bible" (which is the heading in the Christophany article), but I thought an explanatory note on the category page would be OK. We do need better sourcing in all the relevant articles - the Christophany article has a lot of unreferenced examples commented out. I'll do some more work on it when I get a chance. StAnselm (talk) 00:24, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

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