User talk:Mahagaja/Archive 1

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Meelar (talk) 16:29, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC)

Hi there. I just spotted your article on Irish dialects, and I was wondering if you wrote this article here: [1]. The pair appear very similar, and I'm hoping that you wrote both, so that there isn't any legal question. Anyway, have a good one. - Vague | Rant 10:16, Dec 31, 2004 (UTC)

Yes, the original page is mine, too. So there are no copyvio problems! --Angr 12:35, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you for confirming that. - Vague | Rant 01:51, Jan 1, 2005 (UTC)

Just a heads-up: you didn't sign your vote on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/List of images/Chicks. - dcljr 10:35, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Oops, thanks for catching that! Have just added my signature. --Angr 15:36, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Ph[o/a]netician

You reverted my AmE [fɑnətɪʃn̩] to [foʊnətɪʃn̩] on International Phonetic Alphabet for English. Must say I've only ever heard the former from Americans; the latter sounds distinctly British to me. Does the fact that you're in a position to take photos of Ithaca mean you're at Cornell? If so, maybe you could ask Abby and Amanda what they say. --Angr 07:05, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I made that change actually based on consulting Merriam-Webster which lists the /ɑ/ pronunciation as an also, meaning significantly less common. I've just now checked the American Heritage Dictionary, which only gives the /oʊ/ pronunciation. Also, my Jones 15th ed. English Pronouncing Dictionary gives only /oʊ/ for American pronunciation, but it gives /ɒ/ as a second British one.

I'm no longer in Ithaca, but Abby was my adviser and I took phonetics from Amanda. I was in her first phonetics class at Cornell. To be honest, I don't remember with any clarity how they pronounced phonetician, but I spent 3 years in the linguistics department at Cornell and the /ɑ/ pronunciation strikes me as one I don't believe I've ever heard. I will consult with my co-workers tomorrow who are formerly of the UCSC linguistics department tomorrow, but I'm fairly certain they'll agree. Do you have any written authority for the /ɑ/ being more prevalent in American English? If so, perhaps we can select a word with a less disputed pronunciation situation... Cheers! Nohat 07:25, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

List of names in English with non-intuitive pronunciations

Hi Angr, just noticed that you changed the SAMPA pronunciations on List of names in English with non-intuitive pronunciations to IPA, citing Wikipedia preferences as your rationale. Could you point me in the direction of the page where this policy is outlined? I'm personally very much against this change (largely because it's a total pain to edit) and would like to argue against it -- only problem is, I can't find where the policy is defined! Thanks, Lancevortex 10:11, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• Hi Lancevortex, the policy is stated at International_phonetic_alphabet#Wikipedia_usage and SAMPA#Wikipedia_usage. Personally I like the policy because SAMPA is a total pain to read. Editing with the IPA is a lot easier if you do the editing in Microsoft Word vel sim. and then paste into Wikipedia. There's also WikiTeX if you know how to use it (I don't). --Angr 10:50, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Readability is a matter of opinion, I guess. That said, I must confess I didn't realise that SAMPA was merely a hack; I suppose that's why I've never seen it anywhere but Wikipedia. Thanks for piquing my interest and making me actually find out about what I was arguing for. I'm converted -- just wish I had an IPA keyboard. --Lancevortex 01:28, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wymondham - the "windham"/"windum" pronunciation is the only one used for Wymondham (the place in Norfolk) which is how it is referenced in the listing, which is why i made the mod. On a separate note how about adding a non IPA guide to the pronunciation of each word for those who can't read the IPA characters. GraemeLeggett 08:40, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation

In Yosemite National Park, you also changed the SAMPA to IPA. Problem is, now I can't find anywhere that tells me how to read it! I looked at the article International Phonetic Alphabet which is clearly for linguists with a specialized terminology and not for people who just want to know h ow to pronounce things, and I looked at International Phonetic Alphabet for English but after scrolling up and down dozens of times I had still found only a couple of the characters. Can you point me to a table that shows the characters on the left and sample words on the right showing the pronunciation? (And add a link to such to each occurrence of this notation, as was originally there for the SAMPA notation)? Otherwise this is pretty much useless. Thanks. Elf | Talk 17:42, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Excellent work. Thanks. Elf | Talk 22:09, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

IPA template

Thanks for correcting my edit to International Phonetic Alphabet for English. I'd wondered why there seemed to be superflous spaces after leading slashes or square brackets, but I hadn't realised that the slashes or brackets need to be inside the IPA template not outside. I've been correcting some of my own recent edits accordingly, and put a note on Template Talk:IPA. rossb 07:07, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Image:Kiltnballs.JPG

Hi Angr — this is just a heads-up that I've listed Image:Kiltnballs.JPG at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion as it was orphaned (no articles link to it), out-of-focus, and appears to be unencyclopedic. If you think otherwise, feel free to say so there or at my talk page. — Asbestos | Talk 19:31, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hey Abestos, that's cool. It was at Kilt#Underwear, where I felt it was relevant to the topic under discussion, but someone removed it a few days ago on grounds of being in poor taste. Whatever. I won't vote to keep it. --Angr 19:41, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That's fine. I listed it mainly because of its being orphaned, and if it's not going to go back up anywhere then there probably isn't much need to keep it. Thanks, — Asbestos | Talk 19:45, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Deleting a Celtic article?

Thanks for supporting the deletion of Westcountry Brythonic. What's the other article you suggested might be dodgy? Evertype 13:03, 2005 Mar 6 (UTC)

I'm not an admin, but I didn't know that "summarizing" was an official function. I was just, well, summarizing. Evertype 01:35, 2005 Mar 9 (UTC)

Conlang

In the discussion on Westcountry Brythonic, you state "one of my favorite pastimes is designing a version of Modern English based on the premise "What if the Norman Conquest had never happened?" — but I don't put it up at Wikipedia and pretend it's an attested language!". Have you put it up anywhere on the web, as I would be interested in learning about it? Nick xylas 18:51, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Christian Homosexuality

I have found a very interesting image of Jonathan and David I have placed on Christian views of homosexuality. Thought I would pass by and let you know since you seem to have an interest in the subject. Apollomelos 10:23, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Tuareg

At Tuareg, why did you de-link Amghar? -- Jmabel | Talk 19:07, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

Aboriginal languages

Hello, I'm not sure that some of the recent changes you've made to several Native American tribes are appropriate. You've categorized among others the Tasttine, Onondaga, and Tsuu T'ina articles to be included in several language-based categories. I feel this is incorrect as those articles are not for the languages of these aboriginals. I think that stubs for the Tasttine language, Onondaga language, and Tsuu T'ina language should be created, and only those should be in the language categories. Please let me know what you think of this proposal. Thanks, Kurieeto 22:16, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)

California English

User:RickK deleted the article, claiming it had been on Votes for Deletion. I couldn't find any record of there being a deletion debate at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/California English, so I have restored the article. I will put a note on RickK's talk page and ask him why he deleted it. Nohat 08:28, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Apparently there was a page called Californian Accent which failed VfD and was deleted. RickK has decided that any article about California English is therefore fair game to be deleted. I have listed the article on Wikipedia:Votes for Undeletion. Please register your desire to have the article undeleted there. In the meantime, feel free to work on the copy I have moved to my namespace at User:Nohat/California English. Nohat 08:52, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Underlined links

It's not that they're annoying me--in fact I already have them turned off--it's just that IPA is impossible to read if there are underlines, and with underlines is the default for users and the only option for anonymous readers. In general, IPA should not appear in links. It's kind of a pain, I know, but I think it's the best solution unless links containing IPA can be forced to not have underlines for everyone, and that's not just a technical question, but one of policy. Nohat 19:52, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

North Germanics

At RfC I listed:

• Talk:Rikssvenska, Talk:Swedish language, Talk:Swedish phonology, Talk:Voiceless dorso-palatal velar fricative, and most probably soon in more related articles, souring relations between contributors with conflicting attitudes and personalities (likely related, among other things, to the status of Finland-Swedish and the Mandatory Swedish education in Finland)

I guess this is a field where you can weight in as a moderating force.

Regards!
--Johan Magnus 09:59, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Bhili

Thanks. Of course this changes my vote. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:23, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

Berlin pronunciation

In the Village Pump debate on the issue:

• Keep IPA, but provide pro-NUN-see-ay-shuns for words that are pronounceable in some variety of English. There's no reason we can't do both. khan 19:19, 2005 Mar 24 (UTC)

PMA 05:40, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Why is it childish? PMA

---

World Book may be many things but it isn't a childrens' encyclopedia - given that both Dr. Jim Duffy and Dr. Adam Carr have spoken out against IPA - as Adam said Wikipedia should be for its readers not its editors and Jim said On Taoiseach we are told the word is pronounced /"ty: S'Vx/. Even with a link attached, to many people worldwide it might as well be written in Aramaic for all the use it is to them. Previously, to recognise that many people don't have the practical experience of understanding complex pronunciation guides, they were simply told the office was pronounced tee-shoch (the och as in loch). That version could be followed easily by many people. /"ty: S'Vx/ to many would appear to be complete gobbledigook. - you might want to reconsider your position. PMA 08:40, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

OK - i'm sorry for causing this mess - i was only trying to make things better. PMA 10:27, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

pater noster

thanks for your good work on this article. -leigh (φθόγγος) 04:11, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

Barred Owl vs. Barred owl

Hi, I moved Barred owl back to Barred Owl. Bird species names are one of the areas that the Wikipedia convention for capitalization of article titles does not hold. All words of bird species names are capitalized in most English language ornithological literature and Wikipedia follows this convention. See WikiProject Birds for explanations as to why. Dsmdgold 01:19, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

Dake-bonoism

Hi Angr,

I must have been confused by "Heavy Revision Needed" while going through the messy VFD, thinking they were keep votes. My apologies.

P.S. I was told by another fellow admin that rough concensus meant 75-80%, not two-thirds.

- Mailer Diablo 16:18, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I was a little puzzled by the deletion. Efforts were being made at revision, albeit somewhat slow. Didn't look like even a rough consensus.

Pope categories

I understand the general concept of not doubling up on categories, but in this special case (Popes in general and then subcategorized by name) I feel it is necessary, because Category:Popes also serves as a list of popes. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 23:43, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

The reason I started making those pages was that right now there's no way to jump from, say, Pope Benedict VIII to a list of the other Popes Benedict. Putting all of the like-named popes in a category enables that. The reasoning behind it is simple... let's say I know I need a "Pope Benedict" but I don't know which one... so I just go from one to the next til I find the right one. ;) --Dante Alighieri | Talk 23:58, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

OK, you've convinced me... I'm gonna figure out a different (see also, more elegant) way of achieving this. Do me a favor and leave the categories as they are for the time being? I'll fix them in a bit. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 17:04, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism heads up: Looks like you added that the Pope was born on Easter -- I think it is wrong and don't know where you got it from, though. Anyway, someone has fixed it, so don't worry. Garybrimley 01:23, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I did add it, and it wasn't vandalism. I got it from a German tabloid newspaper. But I should have known better than to trust a tabloid newspaper to get its facts straight. April 16, 1927, was in fact Holy Saturday, not Easter Sunday. And since it's the same newspaper that claims he was baptized only four hours after being born, I no longer know whether that's true either. They have a photograph of an entry in a baptismal register for April 16 (no year) at 8:30 AM showing that *someone* named Ratzinger was baptized, but I can't make out the first name. It doesn't look like Joseph (or even Alois), though. Anyway, thanks for letting me know. --Angr/comhrá 05:58, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hey, that's cool. And this morning I stumbled across a website [2] that shows pictures from his hometown. (I think this one is trustworthy as far as their "facts" are...maybe.) Garybrimley 20:20, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

I just want to thank you for your dogged policing of List of words of disputed pronunciation. People put a lot of nonsense there and it's nice to know someone else is being super-vigilant in maintaining its neutrality. Nohat 17:38, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Xiong

Hi there! Because the RFC about Xiong seemed to deal mainly on his disagreements with Netoholic, I thought it best to start a new RFC to see if people have comments on Xiong's behavior that do not relate to Netoholic. Please give your thoughts and/or opinion on that at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Xiong. Radiant_* 08:26, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Pandeism vfd

Please consider changing your vote on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Pandeism to a "redirect" to pantheism. I believe I have adduced sufficient referential evidence to show that this article was not "original research," but simply an non-notably uncommon use of a term that is most commonly used as a reference to a word of similar construction. I'm sure that you, as a linguist, know that it is very easy for those not acquainted with religous details to confuse "theism" with "deism", after all, so this would be a useful redirect. I apologize for having overestimated the importance of the use of this term with which I had been made familiar. It was one of my first posts, when I was new to Wikipedia and not yet familiar with the criteria for notability. -- 8^D BD2412^gab 06:29, 2005 Apr 29 (UTC)

• Forget the above. I have found conclusive evidence of the use of the term "Pandeism" dating back to 1833 [3], being used by Godfrey Higgins, a follower of John Toland, the creator of pantheism.[4]. The term is used in a book written by Higgins called the Anacalypsis. -- 8^D BD2412^gab 10:27, 2005 Apr 29 (UTC)

User page vandalism

I actually reverted your user page, as it was being spammed by someone at 218.69.195.11. Anyway, I hope it wasn't presumptous of me. --T-Boy 09:21, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Brackets in IPA

Hi, sorry, I was fixing wiki syntax, I could not tell if it required any brackets (double) or (single). But I know now, thanks. Who 20:01, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Vfd vote for 1968 in France

Hi - thought you might want to take a look at the article now, and see whether you still feel the same about its vfd...? Grutness...wha? 07:10, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

g^weuskōr

The Welsh-Hindi thing was on BBC? I thought wikinerds was just some website — the author asked nicely if he could include my maps, so I was flattered, and amenable to adding the link :) dab (ᛏ) 12:18, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Signing

OK, I thought I signed in the right place since I am mentioned several times in the complaint.--Wiglaf 06:26, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Surely, people who have been involved should not count as "other users".--Wiglaf 06:30, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Relax, I have added one and I am looking for more.--Wiglaf 06:36, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

I think you have a pretty complete case :).--Wiglaf 06:45, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Lord's Prayer

I add a music section section there just wish some hymnal experts can add some more hymns like that title there so that people can enjoy and think about the meaning of the Lord's Prayer. I think we may discuss about the two MIDIs, but I totally can not agree that you delete that section!! Music is an important "something" in liturgy, right? By killing that section, do you mean that none of the music about the Lord's prayer is good?

The 2nd MID is collected in 2nd ed. of Hymnal book of Presbyterian Church in Taiwan and I heard that song in many other denominations in Taiwan. I am now in USA (and that's the reason why I can not find who is the composer and left 'unknown' there). The conductor and the two church organists of the church I attend in USA tell me that the song is famous. A serious handicap christian musician from north Europe sang this song in an important meeting held by China Christian union Association. Thousands of people attended that meeting. I don't know why you say that it is not famous.

The 1st MID is composed by a good Christian Ph.D whose major is composing music. He is also a Professor in the best music department of university in Taiwan. He won many championship about composing music throughout USA, Taiwan, Europe, and south of America. Although you are a Ph.D in theoretical linguistics, that does not mean that you have good musical background nor even have better musical background than a Ph.D of music. What are your argumentations that the tune is not good? Just like what you say, "whether or not they're good is POV," can you delete such a "good" music just by your POV without any argumentation?

Sincerely & Emanuel

Pastor Jacob

---

Sorry, English is not my mother language and I am not good in my mother language, neither, (what a bad linguistic persion am I!) so I think and type in English very slow. Before I modify some sentences in previous parapraghs, I checked my my talk, you did not reply at that time. Just after I fix some errors, add 1 or 2 sentences and click on "Save page," it shows something like "you have message."

The followings are messages I reply you about your answer in my my talk.

About the copyright issue: I am not very sure about that. (Therefore, I am not arguing with you about this.) As I know:

1. The 2nd hymn is more than 40, even 50 years. It seems that past the ordinary copyright period. (I should make sure about that.)

2. In Taiwan, regilious broadcast is outside the copyright law. Maybe it is not the case in international copyright law, I should try to know it.

3. MIDI is a form different from printing. Though someone can print a music sheet from a MIDI file, the quality is really bad and a little bit far from use. As a MIDI lover, especially who is much more older than 20, I think I should know that issue. I will consult a lawyer recently. Thank you.

Thank you for remind me about that.

About the signature: Thank you for telling me that. And sorry for I forget to add link from my signature to my user page or my talk. I am new to Wikipedia, therefore, a lot of things need to learn. I just learn ~~~~ about 1 hour before I post the 1st message to you. The reason why I still left my name by typing instead of ~~~~ is to show my title. Discussing to a Ph.D. without evdience and/or title seems funny.

About the music background: It's happy to hear that you have music background. I played a musical instrument from the age of 7 up till the age of about 37, and I attended an orchestra (which has about 100 members) about 2.5 years, 3 chambers upto about 4 years, conducting church choir about 4 years and attending church choir about 20 years. The two reasons that I show you this are why I am happy to talk to one who has music background and why I make a lot of MIDIs (more than 600).

About the POV / NPOV: I admit that famous / good are POV. Thank you to let me know the NPOV policy of Wikipedia. (I did not know it before.) But about this issue, I think the appropriate action is to change the title, not to delete the section.

About your dictions on the Edit summary, you write 'their inclusion smacks of vanity': Is it POV or NPOV?

About the message you leave in edit summary: They are nothing about copyright. But what you answer me is almost about the copyright issue. Why?

By the way, you leave 2 messages whick look like almost the same in my my talk. May I or you delete the older one?

Jacob grace 08:05, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

---

^^ & :). The reason I wrote 'MIDIs which are done by me' is just for copyright problem: I do not copy MIDIs done by some others without permission! I don't think about whether it violates the copyright law to public the MIDIs without the composer's permission. So ridiculous am I!!

I'll check the copyright problem up. If it is ok, I will restore it/them with suitable title. Jacob grace 23:07, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

German help

Hey, I was wondering if you could just help me out with a quick translation. I'm copying a good image from the German Wikipedia here. So I'm just trying to figure out what the caption says so I know what's going on. Could you tell me what "Darstellung der Beulenpest in der Toggenburgbibel" means? Its from the Black Death page at de:Schwarzer_Tod. Thanks a lot. --Dmcdevit 05:01, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Ah. Thanks a bunch. I wanted to know where it came from. Quick service is appreciated! :) --Dmcdevit 05:11, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Zivinbudas

hi Angr — since Z's only reaction to his rfc so far is an invitation to "suck dick, you bum", while he happily keeps reverting IE languages, I do think you could take the case to the arbcom now. I would do so myself, but it's your rfc :) dab (ᛏ) 06:19, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

I've now officially requested an Arbitration against Zivinbudas. As one of the people who were involved in previous attempts at compromise with him, you might be interested in the case. Also, feel free to list yourself as one of the parties involved here. Halibutt 04:05, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

Hero of Belarus

Hello. I am sorry I did not get back to you earlier, but I am answering your question, the official laws printed by Belarus are printed in Russian. However, today, I have located a speech by President Lukashenko which announces the Belarusian name of the medal: Героя Беларусі. The speech can be found at [5]. If this is all that you wish to know, I wish for you to consider voting at the FAC page, at Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Hero_of_Belarus. Thanks again, Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:03, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Question on International_Phonetic_Alphabet_for_English & [ai] differentiation

At International Phonetic Alphabet for English (and pretty much everywhere else) it describes the -er in "runner" as [ɚ] and the -ir- in "bird" as [ɝ]. Is this a convention so that each reader will read it according to the way they understand the word to be pronounced? And if so, of what use is it? I have always thought of "runner" as /'rʌn r̩/ and "bird" as /br̩:d/. Have I missed something somewhere?

On another tissue, are you familiar with phonemic differentiation between the diphthongs /ai/ and /ʌi/? I'm assuming that /ai/ before voiced consonants and in syllable-final position and that /ʌi/ before unvoiced consonants is common, but how widespread is the differentiation between the noun "hide" (/haid/) and the verb "hide" (/hʌid/), and between "wider" (/'wai ɾr̩/) and "whiter" (/'wʌi ɾr̩/)? Tomer ^TALK 17:49, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I do. And I've conducted minisurveys on the subject (about 20 individuals, all men 18-25, all from the Twin Cities area or northwestern Wisconsin, all Comp. Sci. majors) and found that, at least in northwestern Wisconsin, this differentiation is almost universal. The one person I spoke with who didn't differentiate between them (a 20-year-old guy from Sparta, Wisconsin, who as it happens is somewhat asocial) pronounces "whiter" as /'ʍʌi tr̩/ and "wider" as /'wai dr̩/ (the vast majority of the others did not differentiate between /w/ and /ʍ/). Tomer ^TALK 18:23, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

Yep. A rabbit has a hayd, and huyds in thornbushes (or so Beatrix Potter taught me)...  :-p Tomer ^TALK 18:33, May 24, 2005 (UTC)