User talk:Rosiestep/Archive 49
Latest comment: 5 years ago by Mehrvellous in topic Maryam Pirband
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Your thoughts about community health
Dear page stalkers,
Some of you may know that I am a member of the Wikimedia movement strategy Community Health Working Group(CHWG). It is one of nine Working Groups (WG) involved in developing recommendations to the WMF Board of Trustees regarding planning for the future. In order to make informed recommendations, our WG seeks the opinions of editors. Here's a link to the survey. No need to respond here stating whether you've completed it or not... I just hope that you make the time to do it. Thanks in advance. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:15, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
- I took the survey, answered with many question marks, relieved that term "toxic" doesn't appear, only simply "bad". It is very general, and I think could use a few examples of what could be considered bad behaviour, a section growing as more people answer. One question could be: what hurts you, what makes your heart beat faster, where do you see unfairness, - what does "bad behaviour" mean for you. Only later: who should be responsible. My answer: everybody noticing unfairness, - not a distant agency where it's always secondhand. Example: when I noticed that a friend was silenced by talk page removal during a block, I went to ANI to have it restored, - the one and only time I initiated an ANI thread. - I believe that half of our problems in editor interactions come from misunderstandings. See above, I wrote something, and two readers thought I meant the opposite, - problem was my unclear wording. Feedback such as "did you really mean that, it seems strange, it hurts me" could be a first step. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:58, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for providing input, Gerda Arendt. Appreciate it. --Rosiestep (talk) 23:18, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
- My experience with organizations who looked at conduct wasn't happy, and perhaps that shaped my scepticism. Arbcom - in the case I was involved - looked superficially at evidence, exactly as the ultimate guide says (which I read only afterwards)? So I sadly don't trust them too much, nor other groups who are distant. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:34, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- I wanted to click thank you for the cat image, but as it's in the same edit, you might not get that I mean that part ;) - For the situation mentioned above (no talk page access), I chose this cat. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- I like the one you chose, Gerda Arendt, and I've chosen a new one for today. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:10, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- Excellent. Miss Fylbecatulous. Would you donate a cat to her, as her daughter requested? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:14, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, I wish I had known of Fylbecatulous before. (#lovecats) Sigh. And now I am tearing up because I have a soft heart. Yes, I made a donation, also a second one. The kitty seems happy, ergo the rhyme, "feeling fine on July nine" (today). Hopefully it makes sense as I didn't know Fylbecatulous. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:46, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- It feels great, and that's all that counts! The original request is linked here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:30, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, I wish I had known of Fylbecatulous before. (#lovecats) Sigh. And now I am tearing up because I have a soft heart. Yes, I made a donation, also a second one. The kitty seems happy, ergo the rhyme, "feeling fine on July nine" (today). Hopefully it makes sense as I didn't know Fylbecatulous. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:46, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- Excellent. Miss Fylbecatulous. Would you donate a cat to her, as her daughter requested? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:14, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- I like the one you chose, Gerda Arendt, and I've chosen a new one for today. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:10, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for providing input, Gerda Arendt. Appreciate it. --Rosiestep (talk) 23:18, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Rosiestep -- You have several hundred talk page stalkers, most of whom probably agree broadly with your way of looking at the world. I'm genuinely concerned that, as a member of that working group, you think it's appropriate to promote a survey here that is meant to sample the opinions of the general community. Regards, Espresso Addict (talk) 07:42, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Espresso Addict and thanks for stopping by. Members of the wiki movement are encouraged to spread awareness of the movement strategy process. "There are four ways that people can get involved" including "complete our survey", and facilitating salons, in-person or online. I don't have time to facilitate a salon, e.g. coordinating a Google Hangout, which is why I provided the survey link instead. You'll notice that I did disclose my affiliation with the movement strategy process (I am a volunteer in a Working Group). I did not disclose how I would answer the questions (e.g. no one has a clue as to my view on: "Who should be responsible for taking action against bad behaviour?"). I have not asked pagestalkers to share their answers with me. I've explicitly stated that if you do complete the survey, don't tell me that you have done so. None of the questions on the survey are mandatory. The survey doesn't require that you give any identifying information about yourself unless you wish to do so. Our Working Group (plus many others) have a professional consultant who will do the analysis (e.g. I won't see the survey responses). Lots of editors don't know the survey exists. They don't read the pages on Meta. They aren't members of an Affiliate. They don't read Wikimedia-l. They aren't subscribed to FB's Wikipedia Weekly. For this reason, IMO, putting a notice on my talkpage that a survey exists seems reasonable and appropriate. What I could have done differently, and am doing now, is providing a link to all 9 Working Group surveys. Lastly, let's agree to disagree that "... most of whom [pagestalkers] probably agree broadly with your way of looking at the world", as, IMO, editors bookmark a variety of user talkpages, not just those whose views seem similar to theirs. Even if your views were similar to mine, Espresso Addict, you really don't know how I would respond to the survey questions, and I am clueless as to how you would respond. What does matter is that you do respond to as many questions as you feel comfortable addressing. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:01, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for your response, Rosiestep. Just to clarify, I am not one of your page watchers (actually I don't maintain a watchlist); I tend to surf the talk pages of prominent Wikipedians to get a feel for what is going on behind the scenes. I appreciate that spreading the word outside Meta &c where few Wikipedians bother to visit is important, but it needs to be done carefully and with a view to reaching audiences holding a wide range of views that represent a cross-section of the community. A casual read of the thousands of words expended over the Fram case shows that the community appears to be deeply and fundamentally divided on the topic of civility, with no agreement as to what constitutes civil or uncivil behaviour. I feel that your action here risks biasing the population who complete the survey, particularly as I believe it has already been advertised at Women in Red. Espresso Addict (talk) 21:45, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- I appreciate your point of view, Espresso Addict, and in the interest of AGF and meeting you halfway, I will move this thread into my archives. --Rosiestep (talk) 22:09, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you for your response, Rosiestep. Just to clarify, I am not one of your page watchers (actually I don't maintain a watchlist); I tend to surf the talk pages of prominent Wikipedians to get a feel for what is going on behind the scenes. I appreciate that spreading the word outside Meta &c where few Wikipedians bother to visit is important, but it needs to be done carefully and with a view to reaching audiences holding a wide range of views that represent a cross-section of the community. A casual read of the thousands of words expended over the Fram case shows that the community appears to be deeply and fundamentally divided on the topic of civility, with no agreement as to what constitutes civil or uncivil behaviour. I feel that your action here risks biasing the population who complete the survey, particularly as I believe it has already been advertised at Women in Red. Espresso Addict (talk) 21:45, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Espresso Addict and thanks for stopping by. Members of the wiki movement are encouraged to spread awareness of the movement strategy process. "There are four ways that people can get involved" including "complete our survey", and facilitating salons, in-person or online. I don't have time to facilitate a salon, e.g. coordinating a Google Hangout, which is why I provided the survey link instead. You'll notice that I did disclose my affiliation with the movement strategy process (I am a volunteer in a Working Group). I did not disclose how I would answer the questions (e.g. no one has a clue as to my view on: "Who should be responsible for taking action against bad behaviour?"). I have not asked pagestalkers to share their answers with me. I've explicitly stated that if you do complete the survey, don't tell me that you have done so. None of the questions on the survey are mandatory. The survey doesn't require that you give any identifying information about yourself unless you wish to do so. Our Working Group (plus many others) have a professional consultant who will do the analysis (e.g. I won't see the survey responses). Lots of editors don't know the survey exists. They don't read the pages on Meta. They aren't members of an Affiliate. They don't read Wikimedia-l. They aren't subscribed to FB's Wikipedia Weekly. For this reason, IMO, putting a notice on my talkpage that a survey exists seems reasonable and appropriate. What I could have done differently, and am doing now, is providing a link to all 9 Working Group surveys. Lastly, let's agree to disagree that "... most of whom [pagestalkers] probably agree broadly with your way of looking at the world", as, IMO, editors bookmark a variety of user talkpages, not just those whose views seem similar to theirs. Even if your views were similar to mine, Espresso Addict, you really don't know how I would respond to the survey questions, and I am clueless as to how you would respond. What does matter is that you do respond to as many questions as you feel comfortable addressing. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:01, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
Reading Kafka
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... about frustration ... - click to open the book ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:34, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for thinking of me, Gerda Arendt. You always seem to come through at just the right moment. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:49, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- I learned about 2 articles yesterday, toxic workplace (Iridescent) and respectful workplace. Did you know that I found the phrase "incredibly toxic personalities" just unbelievable in the context of promoting kindness? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:05, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- Though I am retired now, Gerda Arendt, I have a professional background in "human resources". I have training in, and experience with toxic workplace and respectful workplace. While there's a lot I could say about these types of workplaces -I have taught Organizational behavior at the Master's level- I don't have the inclination to do so because I don't want to feel like I'm "back at work". As for promoting kindness, it's hard for me to understand why editors aren't kind to each other... we're all volunteers. If anything, that's where our focus needs to shift: more kindness. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:25, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- Well, the promotion came in a 2014 speech (as you hopefully saw, clicking on the link, to a lily right above the WiR symbol ;) ), and was illustrated by this image, - how can it be kind to think of others as toxic? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:46, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- Textbooks would differentiate between "think(ing) of others as toxic" (using your phrase, Gerda Arendt) vs. understanding that certain behaviors can be toxic to the self or to others. P.S. I'm not going to analyze a slide in someone's (Jimmy's?) slidedeck. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:12, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- As with all things, one must weigh whether their participation is good for or kind to themselves, as well as others. Failure to recognize when someone impacts your thinking to the point that you engage in self-harming behaviors is problematic. (Self-harm includes remaining in an relationship/association that one knows is not good for their mental state and causes undue stress.) One cannot change unless they recognize change is needed, so the very fact that one does evaluate whether their interactions are beneficial or toxic is important, IMO. Having the strength to walk away from those encounters is a skill that must be learned and for myself at least, took years. I don't think it is so much thinking of other people as toxic, but rather that their actions and behaviors create an unhealthy environment for everyone else. Thus to my mind, it is a kindness to identify what is unacceptable, unsafe, etc. and focus on how we make improvements that benefit the community as a whole. SusunW (talk) 15:24, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- +1 to what SusunW said. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:29, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- (ec, so no reply (yet) to you, Susun): No analysis needed ;) - It was used for Bishonen (much earlier, see the Iridescent thread) and then for Eric Corbett, both users whom I know to be beneficial ("precious"). It seems to be quite some pov in who thinking "toxic" of whom. I understand that it's an American view, and it's simply untranslatable to German, a very foreign concept for me. ("unhealthy" works slightly better.) Possibly Wikimedia boards should take that into account when addressing an international audience? - Enough, relax, I'm out for concert and Rhein in Flammen. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:31, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- I don't know either of those people, so cannot/will not make a comment about them. In general, all people are capable of good and evil, as well as all points between those polar opposites. Good actions do not negate bad ones to my mind. As extreme examples (pointed at no one simply observations on humanity), former Nazis who migrated and lived as productive members of communities, were/are still sought for evaluation for their war crimes; priests who may have done a lot of good over time, but who abused children were not free from punishment and scorn; etc. The list is endless. On en.WP we tend to ignore behavioral issues if the person in question produces, which leads to the environment we have. IMO, the question is are we willing to allow excusing bad behaviors to continue or do something about it. I would far rather we address the issues respectfully than sweep them under the rug and pretend that they do not matter. SusunW (talk) 15:59, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- While there are evil people (
more evil than goodwhat I meant and failed horribly, sorry, was that there are people who appear more evil than good, nobody all evil) I think to call a person "evil" (or "toxic", or whatever in that direction) is an attack, and hard to base on evidence, and to say it about a group seems not much better, especially if a term not understood by a substantial part of readers. Bishonen is one of the greatest women on Wikipedia, and if you don't know her change that ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:22, 7 July 2019 (UTC)- I like to AGF everyone; I've been a Pollyanna most of my life, although it hasn't always served me well. It bothers me to see conflict between editors. I tend to avoid Wikipedia controversy as I'm a volunteer here. I tend to keep opinions about controversial matters to myself, or share them only with close family/friends. That's why it's hard for me to write OpEds (controversial or not), though I've been asked to do so numerous times. That said, "in my opinion", I am happy that ArbCom has opened the Fram ban case. I'm clueless what information was provided by T&S to ArbCom, but it's a fact that I didn't provide anything, and I was not involved in the investigation, so my name isn't one of those that's been redacted. While I'll be interested to read ArbCom's decision, my wiki focus remains with Women in Red. One of the reasons for this is that at Women in Red, we have a respectful workplace and that suits me. I know it's important for editors -admins in particular- to deal with wiki controversies and conspiracy theories and paid editing and so forth, and I have a great deal of respect for those who do so, but, @Gerda, it's just not my thing. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:47, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
- What Rosie said! I concur 100%. I wander into policy matters only sporadically when it seems to be of the utmost importance, but for my sanity, I avoid conflict and drama. I also disagree with you Gerda, that most people are evil. I think we all have good and bad traits and in spite of life's struggles, I honestly believe the great majority of people are positive influences on the world. But I concur wholeheartedly that we need to do a better job of communicating on WP. SusunW (talk) 18:19, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry, I was horribly unclear, hopefully corrected above. I think we three agree to assume good faith above all, especially in case of doubtful suspicion. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:00, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
- I don't see arbcom opened a case regarding Fram's ban, - thought I missed something because I was out all day but don't find it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:23, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
- See this. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:21, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
- I saw that, and it says that they are going to open a case. Fine, I misunderstood "has opened" as that it happened alredy. - I once said that the one thing I learned here is patience, - let's wait once more. Everytime Fram is mentioned I tell myself that it could also be my name, or yours. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:32, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
- See this. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:21, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
- What Rosie said! I concur 100%. I wander into policy matters only sporadically when it seems to be of the utmost importance, but for my sanity, I avoid conflict and drama. I also disagree with you Gerda, that most people are evil. I think we all have good and bad traits and in spite of life's struggles, I honestly believe the great majority of people are positive influences on the world. But I concur wholeheartedly that we need to do a better job of communicating on WP. SusunW (talk) 18:19, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
- I like to AGF everyone; I've been a Pollyanna most of my life, although it hasn't always served me well. It bothers me to see conflict between editors. I tend to avoid Wikipedia controversy as I'm a volunteer here. I tend to keep opinions about controversial matters to myself, or share them only with close family/friends. That's why it's hard for me to write OpEds (controversial or not), though I've been asked to do so numerous times. That said, "in my opinion", I am happy that ArbCom has opened the Fram ban case. I'm clueless what information was provided by T&S to ArbCom, but it's a fact that I didn't provide anything, and I was not involved in the investigation, so my name isn't one of those that's been redacted. While I'll be interested to read ArbCom's decision, my wiki focus remains with Women in Red. One of the reasons for this is that at Women in Red, we have a respectful workplace and that suits me. I know it's important for editors -admins in particular- to deal with wiki controversies and conspiracy theories and paid editing and so forth, and I have a great deal of respect for those who do so, but, @Gerda, it's just not my thing. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:47, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
- While there are evil people (
- I don't know either of those people, so cannot/will not make a comment about them. In general, all people are capable of good and evil, as well as all points between those polar opposites. Good actions do not negate bad ones to my mind. As extreme examples (pointed at no one simply observations on humanity), former Nazis who migrated and lived as productive members of communities, were/are still sought for evaluation for their war crimes; priests who may have done a lot of good over time, but who abused children were not free from punishment and scorn; etc. The list is endless. On en.WP we tend to ignore behavioral issues if the person in question produces, which leads to the environment we have. IMO, the question is are we willing to allow excusing bad behaviors to continue or do something about it. I would far rather we address the issues respectfully than sweep them under the rug and pretend that they do not matter. SusunW (talk) 15:59, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- As with all things, one must weigh whether their participation is good for or kind to themselves, as well as others. Failure to recognize when someone impacts your thinking to the point that you engage in self-harming behaviors is problematic. (Self-harm includes remaining in an relationship/association that one knows is not good for their mental state and causes undue stress.) One cannot change unless they recognize change is needed, so the very fact that one does evaluate whether their interactions are beneficial or toxic is important, IMO. Having the strength to walk away from those encounters is a skill that must be learned and for myself at least, took years. I don't think it is so much thinking of other people as toxic, but rather that their actions and behaviors create an unhealthy environment for everyone else. Thus to my mind, it is a kindness to identify what is unacceptable, unsafe, etc. and focus on how we make improvements that benefit the community as a whole. SusunW (talk) 15:24, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- Textbooks would differentiate between "think(ing) of others as toxic" (using your phrase, Gerda Arendt) vs. understanding that certain behaviors can be toxic to the self or to others. P.S. I'm not going to analyze a slide in someone's (Jimmy's?) slidedeck. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:12, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- Well, the promotion came in a 2014 speech (as you hopefully saw, clicking on the link, to a lily right above the WiR symbol ;) ), and was illustrated by this image, - how can it be kind to think of others as toxic? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:46, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- Though I am retired now, Gerda Arendt, I have a professional background in "human resources". I have training in, and experience with toxic workplace and respectful workplace. While there's a lot I could say about these types of workplaces -I have taught Organizational behavior at the Master's level- I don't have the inclination to do so because I don't want to feel like I'm "back at work". As for promoting kindness, it's hard for me to understand why editors aren't kind to each other... we're all volunteers. If anything, that's where our focus needs to shift: more kindness. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:25, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
- I learned about 2 articles yesterday, toxic workplace (Iridescent) and respectful workplace. Did you know that I found the phrase "incredibly toxic personalities" just unbelievable in the context of promoting kindness? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:05, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
How d'ye want to do this? Cut it into two pages, engraving and title page; leave it together (with the slight risk someone may throw a fit about the little bits of book poking in giving it very minor 3D aspects, though I really doubt it, as this appears to be a straight scan, albeit with a rather good scanner), or something else? I think leaving it alone is a very valid option here, so we can just use this as-is, but if we're cutting out the engraving to use as a picture of her, I want to remove the spotting.
I think the best chance of FP is restoration of the engraving, and pointing out the historical importance. It's not a great artwork, but it can probably pass on EV. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 6.8% of all FPs 06:45, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
- @Adam Cuerden: I'm really happy you want to work on this one, and I agree with your recommendation:
restoration of the engraving, and pointing out the historical importance
. Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:25, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
Hi, I've expanded this a bit. You're probably busy but you or Ipigott or some page stalker might be interested in adding a bit more. Some notable local churches and houses also which might be worth starting. I do remember Basque churches was a big interest of yours. :-). some buildings, churches and some history articles, breve historia etc) Hope you're well!♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:51, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
- Great to hear from you and to see you around, Dr. Blofeld. This region certainly does interest me. Will take a look. --Rosiestep (talk) 22:08, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
- I'm rather busy with other things until Thursday but will see what I can do then. Good to see you are back contributing.--Ipigott (talk) 14:16, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks. Too hot to edit at the moment, it's the hottest time of the year and no air conditioning of course! I'll get back at it when it gets a bit cooler!♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:22, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
- I'm rather busy with other things until Thursday but will see what I can do then. Good to see you are back contributing.--Ipigott (talk) 14:16, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
August 2019 at Women in Red
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_-_Original.jpg){kind=link}
_-_Original.jpg){kind=link}
--Rosiestep (talk) 06:46, 29 July 2019 (UTC) via MassMessaging
You're Invited!
 |
Hello Rosiestep/Archive 49! We are looking for editors to join WikiProject Women music, an outreach effort which aims at improving articles about women music on Wikipedia. We thought you might be interested, and hope that you will join us. Thank you! |
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Happypillsjr (talk • contribs) 04:59, July 29, 2019 (UTC)
Juanita Breckenridge Bates
Hello, Rosiestep! I saw this morning that you're the creator of the article Juanita Breckenridge Bates (written 5 October 2017). In the article, it says she was born in Hopewell, Illinois. Since you probably know better than anyone else, do you know where that place-of-birth information came from with regard to the sources you were using? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 15:03, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
- @AzureCitizen: thanks for reading the article. This is the reference regarding Juanita being born in Hopewell, Illinois: Leonard, John W. (1914). Woman's Who's who of America: A Biographical Dictionary of Contemporary Women of the United States and Canada, 1914-1915 (Public domain ed.). American commonwealth Company.. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:37, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for sharing that and I'm sure that it's an accurate record (that she was indeed born on New Year's 1860 in "Hopewell, Illinois"). The reason for my curiosity is that the Hopewell, Illinois article on Wikipedia today is for a small village that didn't exist before the 1970's. It was basically a subdivision built into a heavily wooded area alongside Illinois Route 29 by a housing construction firm called Saltsgiver, which then went bankrupt when housing values in the area dropped. The residents then subsequently incorporated as the Village of Hopewell in 1983. If you check the location on Google Maps here, you'll find that there is nothing other than these homes built in the 70's and 80's with nothing else to the "village" (no stores, shops, old homes, etc.) I only know this stuff because I lived there from 1976 to 1986 and thus know the place quite well. I noticed today some IP made an edit inserting a passing comment back in January 2018 to the Hopewell article about JBB, which I've removed because it really doesn't help but it made me want to dig a little deeper in to the issue. Of course, none of this has any significant impact on the JBB article; I just bring it up because it's likely that there was an earlier Hopewell, Illinois that was located somewhere else, it significantly predated the newer Village of Hopewell by more than one hundred years, JBB was recorded as being born there, and now it no longer shows up in any expedient record searches on the Internet today. I have no idea how to run that issue down any further, so I'll leave it at that unless you have any thoughts on how to figure out where the original town of Hopewell, Illinois was located. Thanks, AzureCitizen (talk) 20:15, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
- @AzureCitizen:, interesting. I didn't know that the Hopewell, Illinois article refers to a city which didn't exist before the 1970s. If you have WP:RS, that information should be included in the article so it would make sense that JBB wasn't born there. I did a little research just now and found that there was a Hopewell, Illinois in Macon County, Illinois in the mid 1800s.[1][2] This may be the place where JBB was born, although, without the original source stating a county name, I don't think we can be sure. In any case, I'm ok if you want to delink JBB from Hopewell, Illinois. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:43, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for researching that and discovering there was another Hopewell (in Macon County) around that time period... my initial reaction was "Ah ha!". But before going back to de-link the circa 1983 Village of Hopewell link from the JBB article, I did some more research and was startled to discover there is also a third Hopewell, approximately 10 miles to the Northeast of the Village of Hopewell. This one is called Hopewell Township, has a slightly larger population than the village (562 vs 410), and was established in 1849. Perhaps JBB was born there? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 21:25, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
- AzureCitizen and Rosie. Definitive answer is her Hopewell was in Rivoli Township, Mercer County, Illinois. 1870 census, last entry is Hugh and Juanita age 9 is on the next page (Mary was on the 1860 alone no idea where Hugh was and Juanita wasn't born, so I wasn't sure until I pulled this. Looks like all that is left of it is a cemetery[3] and you can see how close it is/was to Rivoli Township here SusunW (talk) 23:20, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
- Positive reinforcement Find a Grave is not a RS, but the whole family seems to be buried in Hopewell Cemetery in Mercer County. SusunW (talk) 23:24, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
- Good work researching and sorting it out, that was quick! It appears there is a stub article for Rivoli Township, Mercer County, Illinois. In the stub, there is an unreferenced statement that Rivoli Township was renamed to "Rivoli" from "North Pope" Township sometime before 1921. Did you see anything about it being called "North Pope" in your research? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 00:45, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
- AzureCitizen wasn't really looking for the history of the place, was looking for a specific family. We know that it was Rivoli Township in 1860, because that is where Mary was living at the time of the census with her other children. This atlas may help with your questions, looks like it was North Pope in 1857, but by 1860 was Rivoli? Interesting tidbit, first church there was in Hopewell, where Hugh Breckenridge preached. SusunW (talk) 01:59, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for info and the links, it was interesting. I'll make a few tweaks to the Hopewell and Rivoli Township articles accordingly. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 21:57, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
- AzureCitizen wasn't really looking for the history of the place, was looking for a specific family. We know that it was Rivoli Township in 1860, because that is where Mary was living at the time of the census with her other children. This atlas may help with your questions, looks like it was North Pope in 1857, but by 1860 was Rivoli? Interesting tidbit, first church there was in Hopewell, where Hugh Breckenridge preached. SusunW (talk) 01:59, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
- Good work researching and sorting it out, that was quick! It appears there is a stub article for Rivoli Township, Mercer County, Illinois. In the stub, there is an unreferenced statement that Rivoli Township was renamed to "Rivoli" from "North Pope" Township sometime before 1921. Did you see anything about it being called "North Pope" in your research? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 00:45, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
- Positive reinforcement Find a Grave is not a RS, but the whole family seems to be buried in Hopewell Cemetery in Mercer County. SusunW (talk) 23:24, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
- AzureCitizen and Rosie. Definitive answer is her Hopewell was in Rivoli Township, Mercer County, Illinois. 1870 census, last entry is Hugh and Juanita age 9 is on the next page (Mary was on the 1860 alone no idea where Hugh was and Juanita wasn't born, so I wasn't sure until I pulled this. Looks like all that is left of it is a cemetery[3] and you can see how close it is/was to Rivoli Township here SusunW (talk) 23:20, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for researching that and discovering there was another Hopewell (in Macon County) around that time period... my initial reaction was "Ah ha!". But before going back to de-link the circa 1983 Village of Hopewell link from the JBB article, I did some more research and was startled to discover there is also a third Hopewell, approximately 10 miles to the Northeast of the Village of Hopewell. This one is called Hopewell Township, has a slightly larger population than the village (562 vs 410), and was established in 1849. Perhaps JBB was born there? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 21:25, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
Photos of Saami women
Hello and thank you for all your wonderful work on creating articles on Saami women! I uploaded quite a few pics of politicians from the Norske Samers Riksforbund today, so there should be a better and more up-to-date selection of photos to choose from. If there are any particular Saami women you'd like photos for, please let me know and I'll try to source some. -Yupik (talk) 01:18, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks, Yupik. I'll check out those photos! If you'd like to curate a list here of the more notable Sami women's biographies for me to translate, I'd be glad to work on them. P.S. I'll be in Stockholm for Wikimania August 12-22 so if you're planning to be there, too, let's say hi. --Rosiestep (talk) 10:30, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
- Would any of the women on this page be considered notable in the en-wiki? They definitely are notable in the se-wiki, but we have different rules of notability there. They were suggested by the community. Other people that would be good to have an article on in the en-wiki: Sandra Márjá West, particularly since we have recent photos of her, Liv Inger Somby since she is one of the spotlight speakers of Wikimania this year (and we have recent photos of her), Jelena Porsanger (unfortunately no photo), and Amanda Kernell. And I'll be there, so yes, let's say hi! :) -Yupik (talk) 06:42, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
- This is so very rich, Yupik; thank you. I'm immersed in reviewing all the links.
- Regarding the CASLE website, these women already have an en-wiki article: Tove Skutnabb-Kangas and Marja-Liisa Olthuis. For the others, I couldn't find enough English language reliable sources to create articles, BUT, if the community who suggested them were to create articles about them in another language wiki using sources they have access to, I'd look at translating them.
- I've reviewed these, Sandra Márjá West, Liv Inger Somby, Jelena Porsanger, Amanda Kernell and they meet en-wiki WP:N requirements, so I'll get these written today, Sandra Márjá West, Liv Inger Somby, Jelena Porsanger, and Amanda Kernell today.
- Nice collaborating with you, and see you soon. P.S. I love the Riddu_Riđđu_2019 photos! Would be nice if the photographers associated with CASLE were to change the photo licensing so that the photos could be uploaded to WikiCommons. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:53, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you so much! Two articles that came to mind that have Saami women redlinked in them are Gollegiella and Skolt of the Year Award, although it might be hard to find enough sources for some of them. I'll see what I can do to convince the community to change the licenses or if need be, find some way of taking photos myself of them. -Yupik (talk) 17:04, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
- About Liv Inger Somby, right now we have conflicting information as to where she was born and we're trying to figure it out (Wikidata says Norwegian side of the border, other material says she was born on the Finnish side of the border). If need be, I'll send her mail and ask her. Also, I came across this when trying to find out where she was born. Perhaps it could be of some use? -Yupik (talk) 05:54, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- I see from here that she was brought up in Finland and later moved to Norway. It looks as if her present affiliation is Norway. As she is covered briefly in Norwegian and Swedish, I'll make a start on an EN article. Additions/corrections can always be made when she turns up at Wikimedia.--Ipigott (talk) 12:32, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- Ipigott, I see you created the article on Somby, so I'll start on another. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:11, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- I haven't found many secondary sources on Somby. If you have come across any, please let me know or feel free to add them or expand the article yourself. Hope I haven't been treading on your toes. Are there any others you would like me to cover?--Ipigott (talk) 13:39, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Ipigott: I just finished West and have started on Kernell. Perhaps Porsanger would interest you? --Rosiestep (talk) 13:43, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- So you've already covered Porsanger too. You've been very productive today. Not much left for me. I see you have quite a few slots at the Wikimania conference this year. It will be interesting to receive your feedback and any video links to your sessions. The Caucasian tie-up looks interesting.--Ipigott (talk) 20:22, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- Ipigott, I've been working off of these lists of Sami women who still need articles: here and here. As for Wikimania, plus the pre-conference (Learning Days), and the post-conference CivilServant Research Summit, indeed I'll be busy for several days. I can't sort out which session you're referring to when you say the "Caucasian tie-up"? --Rosiestep (talk) 20:54, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- Saturday 17th: See program. The title reads: "Campaigning for growth: WikiFundi, Women in Red and Caucasian collaboration". I probably misunderstood it as I thought it referred to "Women in Red and Caucasian collaboration" but on reflection, these are probably separate presentations which have nothing to do with each other. Pity.---Ipigott (talk) 07:48, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
- Ipigott, yes, they are separate presentations, but the session will end with a panel discussion. Thanks, BTW, for the articles you've been creating for the indigenous women event including the one on Somby. Appreciate what you do. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:38, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
- Saturday 17th: See program. The title reads: "Campaigning for growth: WikiFundi, Women in Red and Caucasian collaboration". I probably misunderstood it as I thought it referred to "Women in Red and Caucasian collaboration" but on reflection, these are probably separate presentations which have nothing to do with each other. Pity.---Ipigott (talk) 07:48, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
- Ipigott, I've been working off of these lists of Sami women who still need articles: here and here. As for Wikimania, plus the pre-conference (Learning Days), and the post-conference CivilServant Research Summit, indeed I'll be busy for several days. I can't sort out which session you're referring to when you say the "Caucasian tie-up"? --Rosiestep (talk) 20:54, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- So you've already covered Porsanger too. You've been very productive today. Not much left for me. I see you have quite a few slots at the Wikimania conference this year. It will be interesting to receive your feedback and any video links to your sessions. The Caucasian tie-up looks interesting.--Ipigott (talk) 20:22, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Ipigott: I just finished West and have started on Kernell. Perhaps Porsanger would interest you? --Rosiestep (talk) 13:43, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- I haven't found many secondary sources on Somby. If you have come across any, please let me know or feel free to add them or expand the article yourself. Hope I haven't been treading on your toes. Are there any others you would like me to cover?--Ipigott (talk) 13:39, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- Ipigott, I see you created the article on Somby, so I'll start on another. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:11, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- I see from here that she was brought up in Finland and later moved to Norway. It looks as if her present affiliation is Norway. As she is covered briefly in Norwegian and Swedish, I'll make a start on an EN article. Additions/corrections can always be made when she turns up at Wikimedia.--Ipigott (talk) 12:32, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- About Liv Inger Somby, right now we have conflicting information as to where she was born and we're trying to figure it out (Wikidata says Norwegian side of the border, other material says she was born on the Finnish side of the border). If need be, I'll send her mail and ask her. Also, I came across this when trying to find out where she was born. Perhaps it could be of some use? -Yupik (talk) 05:54, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you so much! Two articles that came to mind that have Saami women redlinked in them are Gollegiella and Skolt of the Year Award, although it might be hard to find enough sources for some of them. I'll see what I can do to convince the community to change the licenses or if need be, find some way of taking photos myself of them. -Yupik (talk) 17:04, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
- You are both incredible! Thank you for all your work on Saami women! If you're still looking for new subjects, we don't have an article on any Wikipedia for Linda Aslaksen yet (also known by her artist name of Zina or her tag of Illuzina). Some sources refer to her as Lina, but at least in FB, she has her name listed as Linda. I've added a photo from Flickr in front of that lávvu so we also have a photo of her to use. Or this photo with her and Buffy Sainte-Marie (which I prefer :D). Another one that we don't have an article for anywhere yet is Hildá Länsman (Q65951866 in Wikidata and Hildá Länsman on Commons). Ones we don't have pics for: Victoria Harnesk (sv-wiki), from the no-wiki Elin Kåven (no:Elin Kåven), Ann-Mari Andersen (no:Ann-Mari Andersen), Elle Márjá Eira (no:Elle Márjá Eira), Marja Bål Nango (no:Marja Bål Nango), and from the fi-wiki Suvi West (fi:Suvi West) (although there's a pic in the fi-wiki) and Pauliina Feodoroff (fi:Pauliina Feodoroff). -Yupik (talk) 00:13, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
- Yupik: Thanks for these suggestions. I'll look into them. There seems to be a problem with your image. It does not appear on the Commons link you gave.--Ipigott (talk) 06:04, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
- Ipigott: Sorry about that; I'd forgotten the magic word "File:" :) Now they should work. And thanks! -Yupik (talk) 08:16, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
- Adding one name: Merja Aletta Ranttila (fi:Merja Aletta Ranttila). -Yupik (talk) 06:56, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
- Yupik, I'm working on the Pauliina Feodoroff and I can't find a translation tool from Northern Sami to English. Need it this and the references on this page. BTW, I'm in Stockholm and will be attending Learning Days today and tomorrow. See you soon. --Rosiestep (talk) 05:36, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- Rosiestep. Thank you! I'll translate the se-wiki article and add the info to her en-wiki page. Also I deleted the one source that the en-wiki article had since there was unfortunately a lot of incorrect information in it. I'll find other sources and add them in. Also, I'm mainly been at the small wiki tables in Juristernas hus (I'll be at the table until about 4 p.m.) -Yupik (talk) 13:16, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Yupik. Thank you for your assistance on the Feodoroff article. Appreciate it. Unfortunately, as I'm attending Learning Days at Sodra Huset (breaks and lunch are at Aula Magna), I'm not able to get to Juristernas hus. Again tomorrow, we'll be done at 17:00. Maybe Fri, Sat, or Sunday will be easier. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:52, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- Should we try to meet up after 17.15 today? The hacking space at Juristernas Hus is open until 19 or so and there's plenty of room to sit there :) -Yupik (talk) 08:39, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
- Yupik, we're on lunch break now so I'll head over to Juristernas Hus on the chance that I might see you (sorry for short notice) as it's unclear what time some of us will be leaving for the movement strategy dinner, e.g. perhaps right after Learning Days. --Rosiestep (talk) 11:37, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
- Should we try to meet up after 17.15 today? The hacking space at Juristernas Hus is open until 19 or so and there's plenty of room to sit there :) -Yupik (talk) 08:39, 15 August 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Yupik. Thank you for your assistance on the Feodoroff article. Appreciate it. Unfortunately, as I'm attending Learning Days at Sodra Huset (breaks and lunch are at Aula Magna), I'm not able to get to Juristernas hus. Again tomorrow, we'll be done at 17:00. Maybe Fri, Sat, or Sunday will be easier. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:52, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- Rosiestep. Thank you! I'll translate the se-wiki article and add the info to her en-wiki page. Also I deleted the one source that the en-wiki article had since there was unfortunately a lot of incorrect information in it. I'll find other sources and add them in. Also, I'm mainly been at the small wiki tables in Juristernas hus (I'll be at the table until about 4 p.m.) -Yupik (talk) 13:16, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- Yupik, I'm working on the Pauliina Feodoroff and I can't find a translation tool from Northern Sami to English. Need it this and the references on this page. BTW, I'm in Stockholm and will be attending Learning Days today and tomorrow. See you soon. --Rosiestep (talk) 05:36, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- Adding one name: Merja Aletta Ranttila (fi:Merja Aletta Ranttila). -Yupik (talk) 06:56, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
- Ipigott: Sorry about that; I'd forgotten the magic word "File:" :) Now they should work. And thanks! -Yupik (talk) 08:16, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
- Yupik: Thanks for these suggestions. I'll look into them. There seems to be a problem with your image. It does not appear on the Commons link you gave.--Ipigott (talk) 06:04, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
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Hi, I added a bit to this. Took 14 years for anybody to add more than a sentence! If you're travelling now don't worry about it though!♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:53, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
- Just added a bit. I'm thinking there are probably thousands of towns/villages just like this which could benefit from even 1 or 2 more sentences and/or other improvements to get them from stub to start. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:17, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
I won't alert you everytime I do this then, but if you ever see me editing something and feel like adding something further go for it. I know you've got a busy month ahead now!! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:20, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. Yeah that's what I mean, even if it's just a few minutes work adding a sentence and a source it's better than nothing. Most Latin American countries have tons of short stubs on localities which could use a line or two like this. I'll try to mix it up a few times a week and add them to the 10,000 challenge.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:32, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
Added it to Wikipedia:WikiProject Latin America/The 10,000 Challenge.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:38, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
- Dr. Blofeld, cool. Time permitting, I'll do this, too. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:45, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
Public figure
Just on here to see how I would approach adding a new person of interest on the website Banksy1414 (talk) 20:51, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Banksy1414. I noticed you asked the same question at the Teahouse regarding a football player who plays for Warrington town, and that you are a football agent who is looking to represent him. I think the advice you received at the Teahouse is appropriate and I don't have anything more to add, especially as I don't have experience writing articles about sports figures and because this would make you a "disclosed paid editor". That said, if the football player meets the requirements for Biographies of Living People, the editors over at WikiProject Football might be more helpful than I am. --Rosiestep (talk) 01:12, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
While you're in Stockholm, maybe one of your colleagues can have a look at this and possibly improve it. Anyone speak/read Persian? Thanks, and enjoy Sweden, Drmies (talk) 20:46, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Drmies and thanks for stopping by. Yup, I know at least a couple of folks who are here and are native Persian speakers. I'lll share it with them. --Rosiestep (talk) 04:38, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- Tack so mycket. Drmies (talk) 15:05, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- Drmies, varsågod. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:53, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- Added a bit to her 'early life' and 'career' from her Farsi page --Mehrvellous (talk) 02:45, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
- Drmies, varsågod. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:53, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
- Tack so mycket. Drmies (talk) 15:05, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
Reviews of reviews of women's writing at North Eastern
Can you provide a link, please? All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 10:25, 18 August 2019 (UTC).
- Hi @Rich Farmbrough: here you go. Let me know what you think. --Rosiestep (talk) 22:46, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- It's really interesting, and could be very useful. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:05, 19 August 2019 (UTC).
- It's really interesting, and could be very useful. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:05, 19 August 2019 (UTC).
Backlog Banzai
In the month of September, Wikiproject Military history is running a project-wide edit-a-thon, Backlog Banzai. There are heaps of different areas you can work on, for which you claim points, and at the end of the month all sorts of whiz-bang awards will be handed out. Every player wins a prize! There is even a bit of friendly competition built in for those that like that sort of thing. Sign up now at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/September 2019 Backlog Banzai to take part. For the coordinators, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:18, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
- Hi @Peacemaker67: I wanted to let you know that Women in Red will be running a Women in Military History online editathon during the month of September. Some participants may sign up on your Backlog Banzai page, and others won't, but a large group of us will be helping with this effort nonetheless. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:26, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
- That's awesome, Rosiestep! I'm sure we will get a lot done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:28, 26 August 2019 (UTC)