User talk:Trappist the monk/Archive 5

A Barnstar for you!

		The Patience Barnstar
		For extreme patience in answering multiple questions and contributing to the education and improvement of editors!  —D'Ranged 1 VTalk 22:57, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for sorting that out on my sandbox - I appreciate it. Best, --Ches (talk) 17:16, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for being one of Wikipedia's top medical contributors!

please help translate this message into the local language

The Cure Award

In 2015 you were one of the top 300 medical editors across any language of Wikipedia. Thank you from Wiki Project Med Foundation for helping bring free, complete, accurate, up-to-date health information to the public. We really appreciate you and the vital work you do! Wiki Project Med Foundation is a user group whose mission is to improve our health content. Consider joining here, there are no associated costs, and we would love to collaborate further.

Thanks again :) -- Doc James along with the rest of the team at Wiki Project Med Foundation 03:59, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 29 February

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

• On the Uummannaq page, your edit caused an unsupported parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:22, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Haitian Wikipedia help

Hi! On the Haitian Wikipedia I'm trying to test some CSS changes my importing the CCS code to my userspace. However I'm having trouble determining which item "#invoke:citation/CS1" refers to. See: ht:Wikipedya:Kafe#.C3.88d_administrat.C3.A8 WhisperToMe (talk) 20:11, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Answered at ht.wiki.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:50, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Template:Internetquelle

Hi Trappist, well done for all your hard work replacing instances of this template with Template:Cite web. Are you planning to put Internetquelle up for deletion when you have finished this? --Bermicourt (talk) 15:56, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

No, why would I?.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:08, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Phew, that's okay. It's one of those helpful pivot table templates that makes translating articles from German Wikipedia so much quicker. Over time they get replaced as you are doing and that's fine. But how do you monks find time to edit Wikipedia with those eight 'offices' a day and all that Bible study and mediation? Not to mention kitchen and garden duty... ;) --Bermicourt (talk) 19:10, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

You forgot the brewery ...

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:51, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

Thanks for that formatting help. Works great! Howicus (Did I mess up?) 15:40, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Trappist

The cite repair is appreciated, I remember noticing it when I inserted it on another page and intended to go back and fix it but then forgot or something. 184.145.18.50 (talk) 05:35, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Monkbot run amok?

What exactly happened here? General Ization ^Talk 05:19, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

That's not the only article that has been blanked, see Harriet Tubman Grave and Harris-Currin House amongst others. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 06:24, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

I have gone through the bot's contributions and reverted about 75 in total, and some others had reverted the odd one also. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 07:42, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

I am at a loss to explain that. I don't think it is the script but something else, perhaps in AWB itself. But, since Monkbot blanked a group of pages and then operated normally, for many mages, whatever the problem is, it is intermittent and those kinds of problems are the most difficult to fix.

I have restarted AWB and set it on the pages that Monkbot blanked. You can see the results in Special:Contributions/Monkbot beginning with Hathaway Cottage at 10:44 10 March 2016 and ending with Franklin Pierce at 10:49 10 March 2016 (77 pages)

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:01, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Might I suggest a final, "failsafe" step be added that checks to see, before Monkbot completes its routine, whether the page is empty as a result of Monkbot's work and either reverts it or sounds an alarm if so? General Ization ^Talk 12:51, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't know if that is possible, at least as part of a simple find and replace script like task 10. Had the task been written as a custom module, then I can imagine a way to implement such a check and will do some experiments. This may be something that would be better added to AWB's bot mode.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:26, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Curious about procedure

Not urgent! Just curious: how did the bot choose which order to process the NRHP template replacements? I see a lot of edits in my watchlist: first a bunch going A-Z in the Cincinnati area and Ohio churches, and then after reaching Zion Lutheran Church (Cleveland, Ohio), it starts over again and goes to Banks Covered Bridge. After the Rebecca Rankin Round Barn, it again rebegins the alphabet with Beginning Point of the U.S. Public Land Survey. It looks like the bot's doing stuff from a scattering of states, rather than doing one state at a time, and I can't imagine any non-geographic themes that would explain its sequence, so I'm confused. Nyttend (talk) 20:35, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Wasn't the bot's choice per se. I used the results returned from Special:LinkSearch searches in more or less this order:

1. search for http://focus.nps.gov/pdfhost/docs/ – 'new' form of the url; do this first because pages with {{NRHP url}} will show up in the search results
2. search for http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/ – 'old' form of the url

I set the search to give me 5000 results copied them to a text editor, used search and replace to give me just the ns:title; copied that to AWB. Then, fetched the next 5000, repeated the search and replace and then added the result to AWB. 10000 was the max number of results I could get. In AWB, filtered out everything except article, file, template, and Wikipedia namespaces. That filtering also sorts the page list alphabetically. Let the bot grind through the list then repeat a couple of times until there are no more pages to process then move on to the 'old' url form and do it all again. So, A–Z, A–Z, ... as many times as necessary.

I am sure that there are urls still to be done but I think that I got most of them. I'll let MediaWiki catch up and in a week or so try again with 'old' form url searches and see what I find.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:53, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 11 March

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that some edits performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. They are as follows:

• On the Wikipedia:Help desk page, your edit caused a URL error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)
• On the Druid Hill Park page, your edit caused a cite error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check these pages and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:29, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

CS1

Hi, I think you remember me... I want to ask you if you know when are CS1 modules going to get to some stable version with much more rare updates i.e. updates to sandbox versions and then live modules? I ask this because I made those modules for .sr but they are constantly being changed here and till now they evolved a lot. If I update them today or tomorrow, in two month I won’t be able to recognize how they look like here on .en because of those constant very often small updates to sandbox versions i.e. live modules later. --Obsuser (talk) 17:18, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Who knows? Most of the 'big' changes are done – all of the templates that previously used {{citation/core}} now use the modules. Certainly the editors here are not requiring as much of my time as they once did.

Will it ever be 'done'? Probably not; see the current conversations at Help talk:Citation Style 1. I understand your frustration and I sympathize.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:08, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I fully understand English Wikipedia is much bigger (the biggest) and updates are the most often here but it is like never ending – every day or every second day something in CS1 is being changed. Maybe it would be good to revise it, check for errors, and update it. After that to leave it for 6 months or 1 year at least, and meanwhile update sandoboxes in order to perform big one-year update. --Obsuser (talk) 18:41, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't understand how en.wiki benefits from a restricted frequency update schedule. Nor do I see how that would make life at sr.wiki any easier. If you wish to remain in sync with en.wiki, sr.wiki can, of its own choosing, elect to sync from en.wiki whenever it likes, can't it? If sr.wiki wants to follow an annual or semiannual update schedule, the work required at sr.wiki would be the same, wouldn't it?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 09:05, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

It would not as .en would introduce (introduces) something new and implements it immediately while on .sr CS1 templates would be off up to 6 months if semiannual (let’s say) schedule is followed. It is always .en in front of others... --Obsuser (talk) 19:46, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for Lua help

Thanks for your help with Lua back in November. I've finally gotten around to creating the module I had in mind. Feel free to check it out:

The slightly edited Template:Infobox zodiac/sandbox invokes Module:Zodiac date. Results can be seen at my sandbox.

I have a discrepancy when I try to invoke it from the special sandbox invocation page. If it strikes your interest, you could weigh in on my question. Jc3s5h (talk) 19:46, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Good one

		What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar
		That {{Ref info}} was a superb idea, destined to do a lot more good, in improving actual article quality in the long run, than just resolving the ongoing WP:CITEVAR disputation.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  17:03, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

And on this point I quite agree with SMcCandlish, this was an excellent idea. It might allow actually defining the "current citation consensus" in a more objective way. Thanks. How hard would it be to target the template at a specific revision of a page, with an additional parameter? DES ^(talk) 17:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Question

Since you have a bot, I figured I'd ask you; the archiving bot for WT:SHIPS doesn't appear to be working. Should it perhaps be switched to one that is? Like the one at WT:MILHIST...? - ^theWOLFchild 00:45, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

I have no opinion. WT:SHIPS is archived by User:ClueBot III. At User talk:ClueBot Commons there is a notice stating that ClueBot III isn't running and made its last edit on 29 February. There doesn't seem to be any discussion about why ClueBot III is not running. At User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis there is another notice with reference to a discussion elsewhere that doesn't seem to apply to WT:SHIPS – I only scanned that discussion so I could be mistaken.

Perhaps you should ask for assistance at User talk:ClueBot Commons.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:06, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

OK, I've done just that. Thanks. - ^theWOLFchild 12:50, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Follow up

Well, I did ask about this over at Cluebot Commons, but there has been no response in over a week. I see that the bot's owner, Cobi, hasn't been active for almost two months. I don't know if someone else is watching over this for him, or if it's basically a rudderless ship right now, but I do know that WT:SHIPS still isn't being archived. I'm bringing this to your attention because as a bot owner, I take it your are knowledgeable about these things and you are also quite active on the WT:SHIPS page (plus people tell me your a nice guy!). So, is there anything you can do about this? Thanks - ^theWOLFchild 22:14, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Lowercase sigmabot III just archived a huge curdled chunk of WT:SHIPS. Thanks for that! - ^theWOLFchild 03:49, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Recycled urls

Any chance of a comment at Help talk:Citation Style 1#Recycled urls? The discussion seems to have gone out of focus. I do not know if it is worth changing the software for an unusual situation like this, but some advice on how to deal with it in some guideline might be useful. Not sure what guideline, or what the advice should be. Aymatth2 (talk) 00:24, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

United States Nasty-class patrol boat

Hello Trappist:
I notice you tidied up this page I wrote recently (for which, thank you!): Can you tell me – the title for some reason is coming up half in italics. and half as written. I've tried using the Displaytitle template ( it should be "United States Nasty-class patrol boat", with just the ship name in italics ) but that shows a warning message about it "over-riding an earlier display title" (and which has it wrong way round anyway). Do you know why? I can't find anything on the page that might be doing it, and have no idea how to fix it. Help? Xyl 54 (talk) 23:08, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Oh, you just did! Thanks! Xyl 54 (talk) 23:10, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

There are very few classes in the form <nationality> <name>-class <type> so the code for automatic italics doesn't handle that case correctly. If there were more I might spend the time to make it automatic.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:23, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Stumped

Hello,

I was wondering if you could help. I added this reference and I am getting a C1 error on it. I can't for the life of me see where the mix up is? Karst (talk) 11:58, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

It's the unicode character U+0092, Private Use Two. When these and other invisible characters are identified, you can simply count your way to it. In this case, the error message says that the C1 control character is at position 7 in |title=. In edit mode, put the cursor just ahead of the first non-whitespace character after the '='; this is position 1. Move the cursor one character right counting 2 to 7 (between the apostrophe and 's'). There is your character.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:17, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! All fixed. The white spaces appeared hidden to me. Greatly appreciate your help. Karst (talk) 12:50, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Template Refn

Could you please revert my last edit on this template on .sr Wikipedia by simply saving this?

I don’t know why I added {{nowrap}} there several months ago, but now I am writing an article during block time (that expires in three days) using preloaded editor (opened before logging in). It is Periodic table article that I am translating into Serbian, and my notes cannot be listed after 13th one because an image represents problem. You can check the image here...

Do you know maybe why 14th, 15th etc. notes cannot be listed out? I guess span style for nowrap breaks something after an image is inserted. However, thank you in advance. --Obsuser (talk) 19:30, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Help:CS1 errors

Hi. Per this addition and this removal, do you not think the advice I added is useful to editors seeking Help? P.S. I'm falling asleep as I type this, so see ya tomorrow. fredgandt 13:40, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

You added that text to a box that was there temporarily to alert editors that certain of the error messages were due to a change in the MediaWiki software. Because of the 2016-04-16 update to the cs1|2 module suite, that message box is no longer needed.

Using <nowiki>...</nowiki> is preferred when editors need to keep MediaWiki from molesting cs1|2 parameters. When we use html entities in cs1|2 parameters that become part of the citation's metadata, several of the characters of the entity are percent encoded so this:

{{cite book |title=[Title]}}

[Title].

produces this metadata for the title:

&rft.btitle=%26%2391%3BTitle%26%2393%3B

If, instead of html entities, we wrap the title in <nowiki>...</nowiki> tags:

{{cite book |title=<nowiki>[Title]</nowiki>}}

[Title].

we get this metadata for the title:

btitle=%5BTitle%5D

Using <nowiki>...</nowiki> tags is also easier, I think, for editors than figuring out how to translate some character to its html entity version. In the above examples, the module gets it right and produces correct output and metadata without the <nowiki>...</nowiki> tags.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:42, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

I understand that <nowiki>...</nowiki> is preferable and should work, but while it doesn't (like 1 Life 2 Live <-- here and --> here and others), Category:CS1 errors: invisible characters is full of things that can be fixed by the use of entities, with links to the Help page, but no instructions about how to fix (now). P.S. Yes, I'm still falling asleep as I type (I think I may have a problem). fredgandt 15:01, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Ah, you've recently fixed the error messages for these issues. Fair enough. Caching is fun huh? fredgandt 15:11, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

And the job queue hasn't yet got round to refreshing many of those pages. Give it a bit of time. For this particular error, a purge is often prescribed.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:18, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Unlinked PMC fields

Hey, I just noticed that PMCs have become unlinked, site-wide AFAICT; the numbers display but aren't linked to the corresponding PubMed Central pages. You've just made some changes to the CS1 modules, so it's probably (but not necessarily) related. Either way, you're the right person to ask—can you look into the problem, please? Thanks, {{Nihiltres |talk |edits}} 14:27, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Yep, I know about this. See embargo date bug fix.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:34, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

April 2016

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Narva may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• kõrbekihi AMS-dateeringud |journal=Narva Muuseumi toimetised |language=Estonian, English, Russian) |volume= |issue=6 |pages= |url=https://www.etis.ee/ShowFile.aspx?FileVID=15962}}</ref> The

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 12:41, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 26 April

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

• On the Phrynon page, your edit caused an unsupported parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:25, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the Help

I see you fixed my "vancouver styler error" on proteorhodopsin. could you tell me what you did and or what I did wrong so I can avoid it in the future? thanks. I don't know where you'll be responding... my talk page or here. I'll check around. Thanks again. ELViture 21:32, 2 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elviture (talk • contribs)

There were two errors:

Buhr, ED, Yue, WWS, Ren, X, Jiang, Z, Liao, HR, Mei, X, Vemaraju, S, Nnguyen, M, R, RR, Lang, RA, Yau, W, Van Gelder, RN (20 Oct 2015). ""Neuropsin (OPN6)-mediated photoentrainment of local circadian oscilators in mammalian retina and cornea"". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 112 (42): 13093–13098. doi:10.1073/pnas.1516259112. PMID 26392540. {{cite journal}}: Vancouver style error: name in name 23 (help)

and

Martinez A, Bradley AS, Waldbauer JR, Summons RE, DeLong EF (2007). "Proteorhodopsin photosystem gene expression enables photophosphorylation in a heterologous host". PNAS. 104 (13): 5590–5595. Bibcode:2007PNAS..104.5590M. doi:10.1073/pnas.0611470104. PMC 1838496. PMID 17372221.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

The first has the Vancouver system error mostly caused by too many commas, and secondarily by ttwwoo many initials, and thirdly by no last name. Because that cite has |pmid=, use that as a good place to start for getting an author list. So, just copy and paste the author list from PMID into |vauthors=:

|vauthors=Buhr ED1, Yue WW2, Ren X2, Jiang Z2, Liao HW2, Mei X3, Vemaraju S3, Nguyen MT3, Reed RR4, Lang RA5, Yau KW6, Van Gelder RN7.

Doing that saves a lot of work. Now all that needs doing is to remove the footnote numbers and the terminal period:

|vauthors=Buhr ED, Yue WW, Ren X, Jiang Z, Liao HW, Mei X, Vemaraju S, Nguyen MT, Reed RR, Lang RA, Yau KW, Van Gelder RN

Buhr ED, Yue WW, Ren X, Jiang Z, Liao HW, Mei X, Vemaraju S, Nguyen MT, Reed RR, Lang RA, Yau KW, Van Gelder RN (20 Oct 2015). ""Neuropsin (OPN6)-mediated photoentrainment of local circadian oscilators in mammalian retina and cornea"". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 112 (42): 13093–13098. doi:10.1073/pnas.1516259112. PMID 26392540.

That will get it right 90+ of the time. So, commas between authors, one or two inititials per author, no numbers or other punctuation characters. You will not get right all of the time (and PMID doesn't get it right all of the time either). The help text in the error message should help. If find an author list that you can't make work, let me know.

The other cite causes the article to be added to the Category:CS1 maint: Multiple names: authors list. There is a message that goes along with that but you have to enable it (instructions on the category page). In that case, since the author list was already in good Vancouver form, I just changed |author= (a singular parameter) to |vauthors= (both singular and plural) and Bob's yer uncle.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:09, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

HIV-associated neurocognitive disorder merge discussion

Hi, I added a template to Cognitive effects of HIV and HIV-associated neurocognitive disorder about merging the former into the latter in January but no one said anything. I changed the template on HIV-associated neurocognitive disorder in April but no one else commented. Could you please review it?Spidersmilk (talk) 22:51, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

I have no opinion. Yeah, my user name shows up in the article's history, but that is not an indicator of familiarity with the subject matter.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:59, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

May 2016

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Economy of Venezuela may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• and devaluation relative to international standards since the late 1980s,<ref>UN data site >> World Bank estimates >> GDP deflator, national currency.</ref>{{Full citation needed|date=November 2012}} continued to
• pagos y otros indicadores del sector externo. Exportaciones e importaciones de bienes y servicios (millones de USD |publisher=Banco Central Venezuela | language=Spanish}}</ref> The United States is

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 00:11, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Greenwich Time Signal may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• (about halfway between musical [[Scientific pitch notation#Table of note frequencies|B5 and C6]])) the first five of which last a tenth of a second each, while the final pip lasts half a second.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 17:10, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

"" → «  »

Hi Trappist! On the Haitian Creole Wikipedia, where would we find the mechanism to change the output of the CS1 templates’ |title= parameter in order to replace the unspaced quotation marks with nbsp’d guillemets? For example, at ht:Lekòl Segondè Miami Edison, we see "New influx of Haitians... instead of something that conforms to Haitian Creole punctuation, like « New influx of Haitians.... Thank you, —LLarson (said & done) 15:26, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Done. You didn't say, but I presumed that the closing guillemet also has &nbsp;.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:46, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Beautiful 🙌 And that is what I meant. Thank you! Sorry but I had another question: you’d helped me before with Date validation, and how to allow multiple spellings of month names (like oktob or oktòb), but I can’t figure out why I see a date‑validation error at ht:Michèle Bennett. It goes away if you change the spelling from oktòb to oktob. It also goes away if you change the month from oktòb to jiye, but not if you change it to jiyè, which makes me think it has to do with the diacriticals). Thoughts? —LLarson (said & done) 16:28, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

You broke it with this edit. I have restored check_date() to its previous version. Because oktòb and jiyè use unicode characters ò and è, we must use the unicode string library function mw.string.match().

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:55, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you much for your attention to this! —LLarson (said & done) 01:00, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, but I can’t figure out the date error here, now. Your thoughts, please? —LLarson (said & done) 22:27, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Because MediaWiki doesn't speak any language but English as far as interpreting dates. The function is_valid_accessdate() works for en.wiki because lang.formatDate() understands English months. But, Haitian and other languages it doesn't understand so returns an error. The solution is to modify the function check_date() so that when it is testing |access-date=, it calls is_valid_accessdate() with a YMD formatted version of the date.

I've fixed ht:Module:Citation/CS1/Date_validation.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:13, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you again! —LLarson (said & done) 01:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Category for CS1 ISO 639-2 sources?

This discussion links to a category called Category:CS1 ISO 639-2 language sources that was supposed to be populated by the latest (April 16) updates to the CS1 module, but I do not see any articles in the category (which does not exist). Did the module changes have the desired effect of adding that category to articles?

Should the help text at Category:CS1 maint: Unrecognized language be updated to mention ISO 639-2 three-letter codes? I would add text to that effect, but I don't know the full scope of the changes that were introduced. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:25, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

The category name was changed between the time of that post and the time of implementation. The category is Category:CS1 foreign language sources (ISO 639-2). I have revised the help text at Category:CS1 maint: Unrecognized language

—Trappist the monk (talk) 09:14, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

That makes sense. I figured that either the code had not worked (unlikely), that there were zero articles using three-letter codes (highly unlikely), or that something else was going on. And thanks for the copy edits to the main category description. Thorough. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:03, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Please quit

I think a bot is doing this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demographic_transition&action=history Please quit. User:Fred Bauder Talk 19:35, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Not a bot. An AWB script that I wrote to repair |language= parameters that are not consistent with the parameter's documentation.

The value assigned to |language= is structured and is used in the categorizing of cited sources (Category:CS1 foreign language sources and Category:CS1 foreign language sources (ISO 639-2)). When the assigned value is not a MediaWiki-recognized language or a comma-separated-list of MediaWiki-recognized languages, Module:Citation/CS1 (the engine that underlies all of the Citation Style 1 and Citation Style 2 templates), adds the article to Category:CS1 maint: Unrecognized language – where I found Demographic transition. Extraneous text like 'with summaries in' prevents proper categorization and so was removed.

Currently there is no support in the templates for these kinds of source descriptors:

abstract, available, captions, commentary, introduction, manuscript, notes, options, original, originally, partially, portions, preface, subtitles, summaries, summary, vernacular, along with their attendant prepositions, etc.

Perhaps in future there will be.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:40, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 14 May

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that some edits performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. They are as follows:

• On the 2012 phenomenon page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)
• On the Anterograde tracing page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)
• On the Anodontia page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)
• On the Annulus of Zinn page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check these pages and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:24, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Author numbers

Hi Trappist! Just a quickie: I'm following up on some things on the WP:BIRDS cleanup list, and found this. Not sure if you're using a semi-automated program or what; if so, it appears to be randomly putting in blank author parameters (which then produce an error message on the page). Can you please double-check in future, so we can avoid the extra work removing them? Thanks! MeegsC (talk) 17:24, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Thought that I'd fixed that particular bug. Turns out I hadn't got it quite right. Fixed now. Thanks.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:45, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Great! Thanks for checking... MeegsC (talk) 17:47, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

African Americans (talk page)

Would you please be willing to act as a third party or settle a matter with dispute resolution on the African American talk page if you have the time? It is on the verge of an edit war.Kinfoll1993 (talk) 13:14, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

I have mentioned the African Americans talk page discussion to the other editor. I will not 'settle' the matter because I am not qualified to do so.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:59, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. Kinfoll1993 (talk) 14:35, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 24 May

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

• On the Amylin page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:23, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

vauthor

Why vauthor? It is not supported in other languages. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Appendicitis&type=revision&diff=720422205&oldid=719049616

Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:13, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Because en.wiki is not obligated to limit itself to the capabilities of the least capable wiki; because |author=name, name, name, ... produces corrupted metadata; for all of the reasons why WP:MED prefers the Vancouver system style (some of which are expressed in this conversation); because it is in common use (this simple insource: search turns up nearly 14,000 articles that use |vauthors=).

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:09, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

The project does not prefer the vancouver style. Wide Scale changes to the reference style should have consensus. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 05:48, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Is it not possible to simply change how the main author parameter works rather than change it to vauthors? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 18:50, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Probably not. |author= is intended to hold a single author name. It is the place to hold non-western names, for example the name of a Asian author: |author=Ai Weiwei, to hold corporate or institutional authors: |author=National Institute for Materials Science, etc.

|vauthors= is intended to hold one or more strictly formatted author names, cause minimal parameter-clutter in the wikitext (compared to the functionally similar |lastn= an |firstn= pairs), and provide correct metadata. Its name conveys to editors its special functionality. Coercing |author= to do the same thing for this special style is semantically incorrect. Making exceptions to established rules just confuses editors who will then misuse the parameter.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:02, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

The problem with vauthor is when copied over to another language the author portion does not work per [1] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:55, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Can we relate "vauthor" with "author1, author2 etc"? Would that satisfy both of us? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:21, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Do these things:

1. copy this text (the name of your sandbox):

   Majadiliano ya mtumiaji:Doc James/Sand

2. go to sw:Template:Cite journal and open the edit window (Hariri chanzo)
3. find this line:

   |Surname1 = {{{last|{{{surname|{{{last1|{{{surname1|{{{author1|{{{author|{{{authors|{{{author|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

4. change the rightmost author (an unnecessary duplicate) to vauthors
5. at the bottom of the edit page is a box: 'Preview page with this template'. In the 'Page title' text box paste the text you copied in step 1
6. click the adjacent 'Show preview' button

Both templates at your sandbox should display correctly.

Because I intend to add support for |vauthor= (semantically and technically correct for single author names in the Vancouver style format), you might want to replace author| (note the pipe) with vauthor|{{{vauthors|}}}

I don't understand what you mean by Can we relate "vauthor" with "author1, author2 etc"?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 10:40, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Checking for all diacritical capitals in vauthors

I'm wondering if there's a cleaner way to check for any and all capital letters via regex than to literally list all diacritical capitals in square brackets. How you do it?   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  14:56, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

The official list of letters in Module:Citation/CS1 is:

A-Za-zÀ-ÖØ-öø-ƿDŽ-ɏ

Because all of those unicode characters confuse the code editor, I've just changed that string to decimal representations of their UTF-8 encoding:

\195\128-\195\150\195\152-\195\182\195\184-\198\191\199\132-\201\143

You could use the first list of characters in a set. You could convert them to octal \nnn or hexidecimal \xnnnn.

For my prospective bot code, I'm using \p{L} which matches any letter regardless of case and \p{Lu} to match any uppercase letter. There is \p{Ll} for lowercase but I haven't needed it. The downside of this is that non-Latin characters are matched. So far, in more than 2500 edits, only one time have I seen my code match a non-Latin Vancouver-like |author= parameter; it matched a Russian name written in Cyrillic script.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:05, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

That works great, thanks!   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  23:02, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 26 May

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

• On the AIBO page, your edit caused an archiveurl error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:23, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 27 May

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that some edits performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. They are as follows:

• On the B&Q page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)
• On the Apple scab page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)
• On the Cervin Robinson page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)
• On the Edith Cavell page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)
• On the Cornelius Vanderbilt IV page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check these pages and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:23, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 29 May

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that some edits performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. They are as follows:

• On the Lorena Gale page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)
• On the Kilifi page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check these pages and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:26, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

2016 Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Community Survey

The Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation has appointed a committee to lead the search for the foundation’s next Executive Director. One of our first tasks is to write the job description of the executive director position, and we are asking for input from the Wikimedia community. Please take a few minutes and complete this survey to help us better understand community and staff expectations for the Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director.

• Survey, (hosted by Qualtrics)

Thank you, The Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Search Steering Committee via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:50, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

American Impressionism

Hello. I am going to be adding Robert F. Gault to the listing of notable American Impressionists. He was a rather late impressionist, like Edward Willis Redfield and his Wikipedia article is in the process of being built (by me and a friend who's good a art research). I have been advised to link more articles to the article I'm writing on him, although it seems a little like putting the cart before the horse. I just thought I would let know you my intentions. 18:15, 4 June 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Librarianhelen (talk • contribs)

Ok, thank you. Don't know why it is that I need to know; my recent edit to American Impressionism was merely maintenance work and was the first time I've edited that page.

Also, for your future reference, new topics on a talk page go at the end of the page.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:27, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I realized both mistakes after hitting save. Need my reading glasses . .. or a larger screen Librarianhelen (talk) 18:34, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Archived and last updated

Hi Trappist, could I get your feedback on Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#Combine_access_and_archive_date_statements_when_identical? czar 19:47, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Merger discussion for Timmons Arena

An article that you have been involved in editing—Timmons Arena—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. NJ (talk) 17:09, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Henry Hoʻolulu Pitman

One of the things that need to be done for Henry Hoʻolulu Pitman to pass FAC is a source review for formatting and reliability. Can you possibly make a comment on the nomination page about that seeing as how you just recently made some helpful citation repairs? See Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Henry Hoʻolulu Pitman/archive2. Thanks.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:29, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Monkbot 11

Monkbot task 11 has been approved for extended trial. — xaosflux ^Talk 11:24, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Purpose of template

I would like to tag pages on their talk pages much like a wikiproject would. The purpose of the template would be to try to move my (i'm not the original founder but the original founder hasn't done anything in 3 years, so I as the only other member I assumed full control.) incubator tiny 1 man show from the gutter into something people other than just me visit and contribute to. thanks for reading Iazyges (talk) 06:24, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

In future, one conversation in one place please.

Editors at the original conversation have made some good suggestions. Once out of the incubator, perhaps a tweak to {{WikiProject Military history}} is all that's required.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 10:57, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Help

Self-closed tags and new tracking category

Could you tell me why do I have Pages using invalid self-closed HTML tags in my article sr:Проширени периодни систем?

"The page contains invalid self-closed HTML tags" is part of the category description on English wiki; I used only br tags as <br /> and already defined references as <ref name=""/>.

What template or system is adding this category anyway i.e. where to translate it? Currently, sr:Категорија:Pages using invalid self-closed HTML tags has only four articles...--Obsuser (talk) 23:29, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Forget, I have just seen this. Should not this change be important, even for cross wiki or other notice? --Obsuser (talk) 23:32, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) See this discussion and the link to the previous discussion. The change was mentioned in Tech News a couple of months ago. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:45, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Hatnotes, lists and outdenting when image is to the left

Do you know why are hatnotes such as here not outdented i.e. right on the text left margin? I made all modules, .css and .js are updated – so nobody could find error till now. Also, why are bulleted and numbered list, not only on sr.wiki but on en.wiki too, not outdented more from the text left margin when image is to the left (bulleted lists' content is displayed also right on the text left margin)? --Obsuser (talk) 18:38, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't know. At the moment real life has commandeered most of my time so I haven't got time to investigate this. You might be better served posting this question at WP:VPT.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:55, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

CS1 on sr.wiki

Hi. I've just updated all modules to match current live .en versions. Could you guess or check why is produced reference always whole italicized (examples here)? If you can, please flick through modules or preview some pages to notice big problems if any, too.

I think you've recently mentioned something about <cite> tag and sr:Медијавики:Common.css, and using different ways to display references; however references do display with <cite> I put in sr:Модул:Citation/CS1, and they display with no big errors which is most important (except italics and numerous errors in dates).

One more thing: Functions that check ISO formatted dates (is_valid_accessdate) cannot recognize other languages except English i.e. Mediawiki month names are in English, so test_accessdate is new function you introduced. While updating, I commented out few lines for good_date in sr:Модул:Citation/CS1/Date_validation and don't know if that's OK or if I missed something while updating modules. --Obsuser (talk) 14:55, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

The default styling for <cite>...</cite> tags is italic. sr:Медијавики:Common.css does not override that default. To override the default, edit sr:Медијавики:Common.css to include:

/* Reset italic styling set by user agent */
cite, dfn {
    font-style: inherit;
}

Alternately, edit sr:Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration and replace the <cite>...</cite> tags with <span>...</span> tags:

['cite'] = '<span class="$1">$2</span>';									-- |ref= није постављен па нема id="..." атрибута
['cite-id'] = '<span id="$1" class="$2">$3</span>';							-- за употребу када је |ref= постављен

This is not strictly semantically correct so the best fix is to fix Common.css.

Embargo date checking will likely fail because of this line:

v:match ('^%d%d?%s+%a+%s+%d%d%d%d$')

which should be changed to:

mw.ustring.match (v, '^%d%d?%s+%a+%s+%d%d%d%d$')

because of the unicode characters used in sr date names.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:59, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

OK, thank you. I will try to implement these...

Should mw.ustring library be used elsewhere instead of standard one (in sr:Модул:Citation/CS1, especially)? I don't know if all link checks etc. will work for Cyrillic (if present) beside Latin characters, generally speaking.

I changed to mw.ustring all of these here. Don't know where or if it is needed to change it in sr:Модул:Citation/CS1...

I insisted to update Common.css many times but is not moving forward. If you can tell me, what other styles/classes are responsible for display of references too?--Obsuser (talk) 16:39, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps the mw.ustring library might be used elsewhere but only selectively. It should not be used in the url validation because urls are defined to use the Latin character set. There are many cases where the tests are for punctuation so the mw.ustring library shouldn't be needed there.

cs1|2 use <cite>...</cite> and <q>...</q> which both have css defined in Mediawiki:Common.css). At the moment, I can't think of any others.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:40, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

If you find time, please check in sr:Модул:Citation/CS1:

1. elseif date:match("^%a+%s*%d%d?,%s+%d%d%d%d$") or date:match ("^%d%d?%s*%a+%s+%d%d%d%d$") then
2. if name:match ('^%(%(.*%)%)$') then
3. link_title_ok (link, list_name:match ("(%w+)List"):lower() .. '-link' .. i, last, list_name:match ("(%w+)List"):lower() .. '-last' .. i)
4. last = select_one( args, cfg.aliases[list_name .. '-Last'], 'redundant_parameters', i );

if they need mw.ustring and how to format them because -link and -last are in third case, for example, and fourth one too (4th does not have matching). I guess there is more to translate in this Module. Sorry for being bothersome.--Obsuser (talk) 19:23, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

1. probably because it is looking for mdy and dmy format dates
2. no, because the pattern accepts anything between the enclosing doubled parnetheses
3. no, because the list_name is provided in the function call in English
4. no, because select_one() doesn't use the string library to select an alias from a list

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:57, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

---

1. Should '-link' or '-last' in 3rd item above be translated? It is similar to local err_msg_list_name = list_name:match ("(%w+)List") .. 's list' or last = select_one( args, cfg.aliases[list_name .. '-Last'], 'redundant_parameters', i );.
2. Should I change name = mw.language.fetchLanguageName( lang, "en" ); to name = mw.language.fetchLanguageName( lang, "sr" );?
3. Should I remove (I've already had because translation into Serbian are not going to be in |trans-title=) from the list of two-letter language codes (if in_array (lang, {'am', 'ar', 'be', 'bg', etc.), just few lines below code I've just mentioned (name = mw.language.fetchLanguageName( lang, "en" );)?
4. Should any part of local date_parameters_list = {['access-date']=AccessDate, ['archive-date']=ArchiveDate, ['date']=Date, ['doi-broken-date']=DoiBroken, etc. be translated?
5. Should any part of PublisherName = substitute (cfg.messages['newsgroup'], external_link( 'news:' .. PublisherName, PublisherName, A:ORIGIN('PublisherName') )); be translated?
6. Should TitleNote = " (Speech)"; be translated into TitleNote = " (говор)"; (English speech is говор/govor in Serbian)?
7. Should mw.ustring be in if this_page.text:match (v) then (check this page to see if it is in one of the namespaces that cs1 is not supposed to add to the error categories)?
8. Should mw.ustring be in capture = k:match (pattern); (the whole match if no caputre in pattern else the capture if a match)?
9. Are date ranges going to get nowrapped in module in the way {{grey|month dd}}, yyyy and {{grey|dd month}} yyyy are currently here on English Wikipedia?
10. Could you check changes I made to .sr wiki main module compared to .en version? I maybe did translated or added something sufficiently but missed something important?
11. Do you know is there a way to get some parts of references "locked" but some displayed as any (this for example) text on Wikipedia page? I'm asking this because -{}- on .sr are special words that block module for conversion from Cyrillic to Latin and vice-versa. -{WHO}- on .sr will display always and always as "WHO" but WHO in wikitext could tranform into "WХО" what is disaster (W Latin, Х [not X, ex] Cyrillic, О [not O] Cyrillic). Other problem is that during several last years or from the very beginnings of Serbian Wikipedia, nobody used tags -{}- inside citation templates and instead of that they are as a whole wrapped into -{}-. That means that Cyrillic months, Cyrillic names of authors, editors etc. will remain in Cyrillic script after you change script version near "Talk" card where it is written "ћир./lat." The text that should be displayed in a common way would be page abbreviations, edition abbreviations, month names etc.
12. Should ['AV-media-notes'] = 'Media notes' for example (title classes) be translated directly as ['AV-media-notes'] = 'My translation' or to define set of values such as for other parameter names (['AV-media-notes'] = {'Media notes', 'My translation'})? (You know probably that these translations are right now useless as all parameters are called in templates using English names; that's why I ask should I define set like for accessdate {'accessdate', 'access-date', 'My translation1', 'My translation2'} or this is different as it is among categories...)
13. What solution would you propose for ['foreign_lang_source'] and also "in language name" as Serbian has dative case so ISO standard names in nominative cannot be preceeded by translated in (у/u). Maybe to put "in language: language name" or maybe it is possible to define somewhere dative case ISO names, don't know where are even those regular defined or probably not defined at all...

I've made all categories but accessdate year is not being displayed but $2, and if »»abc«« quotes are are not replaced (here). You can see many previewed references here...

Thank you.--Obsuser (talk) 23:59, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

1. problematic; I'm beginning to think that there should be one set of modules for Cyrillic and another set for Latin with matching sets of templates
2. if you are going to support |script-title= and associated categories, then yes
3. if you are going to support |script-title= and associated categories, then no
4. no; those are internal table indexes and variable names
5. you already did
6. probably
7. only if sr.wiki doesn't use English names for categories; should you not have also translated the list of uncategorized namespaces in /Configuration?
8. wouldn't hurt
9. the nowrapping applies only to |access-date= which must not be a range
10. in nowrap_date () why did you remove cap2? Do the changes you made work?
11. I don't understand; first you say Cyrillic months, Cyrillic names of authors, editors etc. will remain in Cyrillic script then you say The text that should be displayed in a common way would be page abbreviations, edition abbreviations, month names etc.
12. translated as you have done is fine; that isn't a parameter name
13. I don't understand that whole dative/nominative thing. If there is a common and acceptable way to refer to the source language, use that rather than translate the English form

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:38, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

10. I removed it because MDY format won't be used on .sr (I commented it out in date validation module). Problem is maybe something else, I don't know what. cap2 it is not accidentally removed, however.

11. Cyrillic remains Cyrillic between -{ and }-, Latin remains Latin between -{ and }- i.e. text between -{ and }- behaves in the same way as on English Wikipedia for sure (it cannot be transliterated). Text that should be transliterated are month names obviously, abbreviations for page, volume etc. Problem is that nobody used tags -{}- when citing sources in articles, so there's no way to tell if |title= specified is Cyrillic so it can be transliterated into Latin after changing script in ћир./lat. Text "Приступљено " should become "Pristupljeno " (English: "Retrieved "), for example. Thing is way more complicated because currently on .sr it is that every Latin word or character displayed in article with Cyrillic title does NOT get changed, so -{}- became much or less useless. Several years before, you had to use -{}- for everything that is in Latin (or for something you want to remain in Cyrillic when version of .sr Wikipedia is changed to Cyrillic); however, I think it will have to get turned on in future so I want to prepare these modules.

13. I checked and it is working nice with language two letter codes etc. but users used to (and do still) enter in |language= "енглеском" (dative) which requires "на" preposition because this dative without preposition is gramatically incorrect. When using two letter codes (ISO), if you enter in |language= "en" it will display "енглески" (nominative) which does not require anything or can be led by "језик: " (like "language: ", like title, and then you can write whatever you want).
Solution is dual:
 1. to detect if ISO code is not entered [if it is – just not to display "на " ("in ") or display "језик: " (like "language: "); however, if it is not, all those entered names can contain errors which will be displaying unnoticed till someone manually corrects them]
 2. in order to prevent previoisly mentioned unnoticed errors / spelling mistakes or whatever, a list of full language ISO names in dative that should be displayed has to be defined + very simple function (which I don't know how to program) should be added to compare entry in |language=; if it is ISO, display already defined dative name from some list (either module or template external) preceeded by preposition; if it is not ISO, display error to use ISO and display again preposition and parameter content (that content is manually entered language name in parameter insted of ISO).

+ I've made all categories but |accessdate= year is not being displayed but "$2" (maybe cap2 improper removal is problem, but MDY is not needed on .sr Wiki); and if quote is |quote=»abc«, it is displayed as »»abc«« – quotes are are not replaced and they should, like in English ""text"" (see this here). You can see many previewed references here, too.--Obsuser (talk) 22:38, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

10. With this change, this:

cap, cap2 = string.match (date, "^(.*)%s+(%d%d%d%d)$");
date = substitute (cfg.presentation['nowrap2'], {cap, cap2});

became this:

cap = mw.ustring.match (date, "^(.*)%s+(%d%d%d%d)$");
date = substitute (cfg.presentation['nowrap2'], cap);

which is the reason for my question. In /Configuration is this:

['nowrap2'] = '<span class="nowrap">$1</span> $2'

(does that $2 look familiar?) The string match returns two captures: cap gets everything up to the space preceding the year, cap2 gets the year. The nowrap2 argument to substitute () expects two values, cap and cap2. Because you deleted cap2 in two places, substitute () has nothing for $2 in nowrap2.

I'll think about items 11 and 13 some more later.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:32, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

I applied changes for these items you explained. For now, these are remaining problems:

1. Regarding my question on local err_msg_list_name = list_name:match ("(%w+)List") .. 's list' and last = select_one( args, cfg.aliases[list_name .. '-Last'], 'redundant_parameters', i );: I saw this is for categories, and I've already made categories with "author" and "editor" keywords not translated. If it is possible, it would be good to translate these words too.
2. Regarding my question on if in_array (lang, {'am', 'ar', 'be', 'bg',: It was not completed; I did not want to ask should I remove whole thing but should I remove from this list 'sr', ? (I guess yes and I did remove it as nobody should specify Serbian as script language for title; problem here is that category names should also be in dative, not nominative.)
3. Regarding my question on nowrapping dates: I wanted to ask if there are going to be introduced (in future) some functions here for nowrapping ranges and is it possible at all?
4. 11 and 13 are almost impossible to resolve completely, especially for me who is doing something he is not familiar with. Language-related categorization is a big problem. However, suggestion or direct help is welcome.
5. Quotes are still displayed as »»abc«« intead of »abc« when |quote=»abc«.
6. In (d)d. (m)m. yyyy date format, year is connected to quoted text so a lot of white space remains and looks bad. Example image.
   /For me, notes: 1) maybe don't translate et al./
7. Why is missing URL (when accessdate is defined) error hidden?

And is there any page on English Wiki that contains general test for citation templates, with various test for particular parameters functions etc. Other suggestions for module improvements are welcome, too.--Obsuser (talk) 03:23, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

1. as I said this is problematic. I don't have an answer yet.
2. When a Cyrillic title is used, |script-title=sr:... will prevent it from rendering in italic font. So, I don't think that you should have removed sr from the list
3. there are no current plans to nowrap anything. Of course it is possible, of course plans can change
4. nothing new to add at this time
5. fixed
6. perhaps you want to include that access-date format in nowrap_date ()
7. example?
8. no

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:24, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

7. No need for example; first error condition, anchored accessdate_missing_url, has set hidden = true. Maybe there were discussion on that topic too on English Wikipedia but if not – I think it would be useful to display that error. Or, you considered something else (citing book, for example, could have accessdate but no url if someone checks book that is not online; however, it is said here that accessdate requires URL, although I think it should not because you can access to or retrieve some source without consulting its online version). Why does accessdate require URL?

ω Awaiting 1, 4 [not a must, of course; advices would be welcome] --Obsuser (talk) 22:54, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

When error messages were first displayed there were some editors who objected. The result was an RfC that determined that certain error messages should be hidden until a bot (that these editors claimed would soon be available) could fix most of the errors. There is no bot to fix these errors because it has to troll through the article history to see if the particular template ever had |url=; if it did, the bot must then figure out why it was removed; must then figure out if the url is/was valid, ... So, that error message and a couple of others remain hidden on en.wiki. If you want to show them on sr.wiki, go ahead; you aren't bound by our RfC.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:29, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

---

Regarding the last (June) update of Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation on English Wikipedia:

1. Space %s from date1, century, date2 = date_string:match ("((%d%d)%d%d)[%s%-–]+(%d%d)"); was removed intentionally?
2. On sr.wiki: Can param_val, n = mw.ustring.gsub (param_val, '[%-–]', '—'); replace all hyphens and ndashes with mdashes?
   (Or current form is OK: param_val, n = param_val:gsub ('%-', '—'); for replacing hyphens found to mdash + in new line right after that param_val, n = mw.ustring.gsub (param_val, '–', '—'); for replacing ndashes found to emdash?) Or other proposal?
3. On sr.wiki: If you can tell me, please, if mw.ustring should be added to or removed from some module, especially after the June update?

PS In Module:Citation/CS1 on en.wiki you have one "generaltional".--Obsuser (talk) 22:54, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

1. yes; if there were a space, the preceding elseif would fail because it correctly doesn't allow spaces in year–year ranges so looking for a space in the patten here we actually take values from date_string is pointless
2. the first (...[%-–]...)should work
3. I took a quick look and didn't find anything obvious

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:29, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

---

Hi. Do you know maybe why ​.citation-comment {display: inline !important;} /* show all Citation Style 1 error messages */​ does not turn on all hidden error messages for specific user on sr.wiki? I put that in my vector css and common css (or only common css etc.) but error messages are still not being displayed. Or that does not work either on en.wiki (maybe deprecated)... --Obsuser (talk) 21:05, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Works for me when I put it at sr:Корисник:Trappist the monk/common.css. Perhaps you have to bypass your browser's cache?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:50, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

My code had some \u200b (zero width space) character ([2]). Don't know where I picked it up, and copied and then pasted text as such. Now it should be OK.--Obsuser (talk) 00:18, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

---

I updated .sr so dates can be followed by dot (as dates alone can and should have trailing dot but when displayed in references ".)" and ".." should become ")" and "." because two dot for ordinal number [year in this case] in sr lang gets cleared if followed by other punctuation sign).

1. Maybe there was a simpler way, maybe not, doesn't matter too much. But when comparing my test pages I noticed that those non dotted months (long and short at the same time, defined in short_x_months lists for two scripts) are accepted with dot after them if year has a trailing dot. For example, "мај. 2016" gives error (OK) but "мај. 2016." does not give error (not OK). Do you know where is glitch? I only added "%.?" and other needed code following hyphen replacement method.
2. Other thing that does not function is that hyphen gets replaced in page intervals with emdash but endash does not get replaced with anything.--Obsuser (talk) 13:09, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Can I have simple isolated examples of what it is you're talking about instead of the wall of citations?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:19, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes, here, you can edit it in preview or save:

1. Months in short_cyrillic_months and short_latin_months are not meant to be followed by dot. After my last (today) updates, |date=мај. 2016 raises error but |date=мај. 2016. does not.
2. |pages=22-23 gives "стр. 22—23" but |pages=22–23 gives "стр. 22–23" (endash is not changed to emdash; it should be, however).--Obsuser (talk) 13:34, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

1. Figured out first one. I've forgotten to add %.? to elseif mw.ustring.match(date_string, "^%a+%. +%d%d%d%d%a?$") then (--disabling long months of length three to be followed by dot).
2. Should I use anchor_year=year..'%/'..anchor_year; or anchor_year=year..'/'..anchor_year;? What are these parts with anchor_x=x.. 'character' ..anchor_x used for?
3. Biggest problem for now (endash is small problem) is how to enable aside from ISO language codes to enter also language full names from some list where those acceptable names will be defined. For example, |language=de will result in "немачки" + category name is wrong as it needs to have dative ("немачком"), not nominative. |language=немачком will result in "немачком" + error written out for unrecognized language + no category. Do you know how to make it no matter if |language=de or string1, or string2 etc. associated to ISO is entered, dative is always being displayed? I need some list to associate to both ISO and its results (which are in nominative, e.g. "немачки") dative forms which are different for each language, and that those dative forms are used for categorisation and displaying no matter if |language=de, |language=немачки or |language=немачком is specified in a citation template. --Obsuser (talk) 14:34, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

You do have to tell hyphen_to_dash( str ) that you want it to convert ndashes as well as hyphens to mdash. If you don't, it won't. Try this:

mw.ustring.gsub(str, '[–%-]', '—' )

CITEREF anchors. See {{harv}}. / is not a magic character so does not require escaping (%/). The date portion of CITEREF anchors must match exactly with the date portion of the link created by {{harv}} and {{sfn}} templates.

I suppose you could create translation tables:

local iso_639_2_translation = {
	['de'] = {'немачки', 'немачком'},
	['en'] = {'nominative', 'dative'},
	['fr'] = {'nominative', 'dative'},
	};

with perhaps something similar to translate nominative to dative or the other way round or both.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:15, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

cs1 on sr.wiki – break 1

Speaking of big, I've split this off from the main topic because that is getting big

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:40, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Modules are pretty big, so I'm spending hours to find particular function and miss some/many. Hyphen_to_dash is fixed, thank you.

1. I don't understand CITEREF year extraction very well. Why is it capturing part after year and what is %a? part supposed to be in a citation at all (as in +((%d%d%d%d?)%.?%a?), on .sr %.? is extra)?
2. If you notice some %.? missing or extra (maybe it is extra in ['dmy'] = '(%d%d?)%.%s+(%a+)%s+(%d%d%d%d)%.?',), or anything else which is important but wrong, please tell.
3. If you can, give a look to several new date formats that include numerical days and months.
4. I don't know if there are mistakes in is_valid range and other functions i.e. can they use captured number as same as captured month name?
5. I know for such tables but don't know how to implement them so that no matter what is entry one thing is output.
6. Why there's no message Serbian language specified when |language=sr? Instead, category with wrong (nominative instead of dative) is being added.
7. Why is %  in ^%a+ +[1-9]%d%d%d% [%-–] %a+ +[1-9]%d%d%d%a?$ (in English date validation module, too)? Is this escaping space character? There is more than one matching with % .
8. Why there are no contributor or collaborator (and similar: contributor-last, collaborators etc.) parameters or those names are deprecated on en.wiki?
9. Now |accessdate=2010 is not accepted, on en.wiki it is...--Obsuser (talk) 16:27, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

1. The single alpha character after a year is captured in cases when it is necessary to disambiguate a CITEREF. See Template:Harvard citation#More than one work in a year
2. ok
3. ok, later
4. not sure I understand what you want
5. I think that language parameter handling will need rewriting
6. at en.wiki we don't show |language=en because this is en.wiki; in general, sources here are English so it is not necessary to say that they are English; that same is likely true at sr.wiki. Don't know about the category; perhaps that's part of the language parameter rewrite that will be necessary.
7. probably a copy/paste oversight; it is benign and can be removed
8. at en.wiki there is the full set of |contributor-first=, |contributor-last=, etc; see the Module:Citation/CS1/Whitelist; collaboration is a singular parameter to hold the name of a group of researchers, authors, etc.
9. there is discussion at Help talk:Citation Style 1#incomplete access dates where I have suggested disallowing things like |access-date=2010

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:16, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

4. Check please tonumber, is_valid_. . . and get_. . ._number functions in parts marked with 05. [d]d—[d]d. [m]m. yyyy, 11. [d]d. [m]m. — [d]d. [m]m. yyyy and 14. [d]d. [m]m. yyyy. — [d]d. [m]m. yyyy, as I am not sure how converting captured month number to assigned number will work (when compared to converting captured month name to assigned number etc.). Generally there might be some glitches or something I miss and is related to error checking functions in sr.wiki date validation module.
6. What is actual problem was that when |language=sr is entered (or |language=српски / srpski as ISO "sr" gives "српски / srpski") – it works properly (no language or category is being shown). But if |language=српски or |language=srpski is entered, it is not recognized (because I did not define "sr-EC"/"sr-ec" and "sr-EL"/"sr-el" language codes aside from "sr" as default languages; maybe I will add "en" too because references are generally in English on many Wikipedias).
    I think I will be able to fix this in grey, so no need to pay attention to the grey part but only this below.
   If you are willing to, could you edit sandbox versions on sr.wiki to try to implement those lists (1. nominative-Cyrillic [equals ISO], 2. nominative-Latin [equals ISO but in Latin script], 3. dative-Cyrillic [specific list], 4. dative-Latin [specific list, equal to dative-Cyrillic but in Latin script]) for ISO/nominative/dative names so that displayed language and the one used for categories is a dative form?
    • Note that sr:Модул:Konverzija, sr:Модул:TitleReplace can be used for conversion between scripts (maybe could be implemented elsewhere too), and sr:Модул:Jezik/podaci contains list of nominative-Cyrillic names followed by some form of " language" (" језик" or " (језик)"), and it could be useful.
   Also, translation of " language" should be allowed after a language name too (i.e. |language=nominative-Cyrillic језик, |language=nominative-Latin jezik and |language=dative-Cyrillic језику, |language=dative-Latin jeziku should all result in displaying only "dative-Cyrillic" and using "dative-Cyrillic" as category language keyword [as category name will be Cyrillic]; " језик"/" jezik" and " језику"/" jeziku" should be as some optional suffix; " језик"/" jezik" are for nominative case; " језику"/" jeziku" are for dative case).
   I am also starting too think there will be needed separate Cyrillic and Latin modules, for separate "cite web" and "cite web-lat" templates, in order not to have mixed scripts in one citation.
   However, that is a massive work so [for now] it would be very useful to implement that language fix (displaying and categorization).
   If you can, please make only concept in sandbox version (it is used nowhere in article namespace, so can be freely edited), and I will make full list with names and transfer it to the live module(s) after tests.
9. But I did not change anything regarding accepting / not accepting year alone as accessdate, neither on en.wiki or sr.wiki. It should be same; however, on en.wiki currently |accessdate=2010 is accepted (error is not displayed); on sr.wiki |accessdate=2010 is not accepted (error is displayed).
10. Did I properly remove dot from the end of the date parameters value?--
11. This is for both en.wiki and sr.wiki modules:
    a) Why is sometimes year being matched with %d%d%d%d but sometimes with [1-9]%d%d%d? Shouldn't it be always matched with [1-9]%d%d%d as first digit must not be 0?
    b) Is there any important difference while matching in between %d?%d%. and %d%d?%. or between [%-–—](%d?%d)%. and [%-–—](%d%d?)%.?
    c) What is %d%d* used for as only two numbers should be matched?
    d) In en.wiki only: Why did you put ^%d%d?%s*%a+%s+%d%d%d%d$ i.e. why first time %s* and after that %s+ (I know what are quantifiers * and + used for but I think it is inconsistent with matching in the /Date validation module; anchor %a? is also missing)?
    e) There are nine * quantifiers in current English live /Date validation module. Could you check if some are not needed? I think there are some %s not needed too, as first match condition is with normal space and then in then branch of if function %s is used for no reason.
12. a) Please check module sr:Модул:Citation/CS1, part for date nowrapping for glitches, especially matching for nowrap1, nowrap2, nowrap3 and nowrap 4.
    b) Is there a particular reason why nowrap is not also for date but only for accessdate, and how to turn it on for all date parameters [turn it on sr.wiki of course, on en.wiki there must be discussion first] (AccessDate = nowrap_date (AccessDate); should be changed or Date = nowrap_date (Date); or something else added after that but I'm not sure if it will work; maybe it is possible to turn it on for all date parameters)?--Obsuser (talk) 09:44, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

4. for both 11 and 14, is_valid_month_season_range() is for month names. For numerical months you'll have to do some sort of equivalent validation that just uses numbers
6. I think that I suggested in one of our past discussions that cs1|2 modules for sr.wiki should be split into Cyrillic and Latin versions. Doing that would greatly simplify a lot of things. Doing that could help en.wiki figure out how best to support internationalization.
   
   I do not think that you should hide the language when |language=en; special case handling just complicates things. If it is really important to do so, do it after a solution is reached for the bigger nominative/dative problem.
9. you didn't, but I did when I wrote the work-around for MediaWiki's inability to handle non-English month names. I have implemented that same code in Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation/sandbox:

   {{cite web/new |url=//example.com |title=Title |access-date=2010}}

   "Title". Retrieved 2010. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)

10. does it work? if not, show me where

11. a) because the [1-9] is the first step in the validation. Once we get beyond that, we know that the first digit is ok so we don't need to be specific when we extract that portion of the date

    b) no, I don't think so

    c) for consistency, could, and probably should, be %d%d?; again these occur in a place where we already know that we have one or two proper digits

    d) because nowrap_date() doesn't know if the date format is a valid format, using %s* prevents odd looking access date rendering

    d) %s* is not used in the 'first validation test' anywhere in Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation; where did you find it?

    d) %s is used for no reason Where?

12. nowrap_date() was an experiment written to solve the specific problem of line wrapping at inappropriate places in the rendered access date. Except for minor bug fixes (the %s*) I have not revisited that code since it was written. Access date is the only supported date because it is rendered at the end of a citation. The other dates, for the most part fall early in the citation so are much much less susceptible to line wrap problems. To turn it on for all dates seems unnecessary to me but if it is to be done, the current code should be rewritten elsewhere. Maybe after we separate into Cyrillic and Latin modules.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:35, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

11. а) I'm talking about Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation. Shouldn't it be always (in all date formats, except ISO) matched with [1-9]%d%d%d as first digit must never ever be 0?

    c) %d%d* should be(come) %d%d??

    d) I'm talking about Module:Citation/CS1. In ^%d%d?%s*%a+%s+%d%d%d%d$ first time %s is quantified as %s* and after that as %s+. I thought that %s* is never captured, so it is could be replaced with   in both first matching ('first validation test') and then second to get captured values for nowrapx functions.

    d) I'm talking about Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation. It used for no reason in then branches of if functions which [if functions] match normal space  ; if then branch is being done, then   is matched, once for sure. Example is "month-initial: month day, year" or "day-initial: day month year".

12. а) I'm talking about Module:Citation/CS1. I still don't get why is %s* used and not   (or at least %s+, as if there's no space there's nothing to wrap).

    b) I knew that might be reason, but on small screens or big zoom (and with possible long Surname, Name1 Name2) – or if date is before accessdate – date can be equally "broken".

    c) I included date ranges in nowrapping too. Ranges are only for date, not accessdate (if in accessdate, error flag is raised etc.). Can Date = nowrap_date (Date); apply nowrapping to |date= too?

    d) Are nowrap1, nowrap2, nowrap3 and nowrap 4 matchings (^(.*) (%d%d%d%d%.? [%-–—]) (.*) (%d%d%d%d%.?%a?)$ for nowrap4, for example) good? You can see what I wanted to capture and nowrap by capture groups and each nowrap comment before. --Obsuser (talk) 15:55, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

11. а) we explicitly test for first digit not being zero as a condition of getting into the rest of that date format's validation. Once inside, we know that the first digit is not 0 so have not need to 'test' it again; you can't get to the the %d%d%d%d without having satisfied the [1-9]%d%d%d

    c) yes

    d) we don't know if the access date has a valid format and presume that it's correct. We do care that there is a space character preceding the year because that is where we will end the nowrap (year is allowed to be on another line but we don't allow day to be separated from month by a line break). %s* matches zero or more consecutive white-space characters. That has nothing to do with captures. In this case if the date is malformed '16June 2016' the no wrap still works properly even though the date format is bad.

    d) another case where we have already explicitly tested for the presence of a space character so no need to be as precise.

12. а) see 11.d

    b) as far as I know, no one has complained about that; perhaps no one has noticed. It could be done but it needs to be done in a different way; perhaps as a last step after trailing dot removal and |df= formatting.

    d) does it work? then its ok

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:39, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

---

Could you tell me where the text "Archived from the original on " should be translated in sr.wiki modules so that |deadurl=unfit does not display the aforementioned text in English? --Obsuser (talk) 16:16, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

sr:Module:Citation/CS1 lines 2978–3010 particularly line 2995.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:39, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

cs1 on sr.wiki – break 2 [after 30 July 2016 update]

Hi. I've just updated sr.wiki CS1 modules. Could you check last diffs for some errors after this update? One more thing: Do you know is embargo validation working (in sr:Модул:Citation/CS1/Date validation, below elseif 'embargo'==k then) and if not how to fix it? Thanks.--Obsuser (talk) 04:32, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Real life is consuming a lot of my time these days so I have little to spare for Wikipedia. Quick tests of |embargo=2016-09-01 (works) and |embargo=01. septembar 2016 (didn't work). is_valid_embargo_date{} works correctly for |embargo=01. septembar 2016 (it returns true and 01. septembar 2016). I don't read Serbian so I don't know what the error message is saying.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 10:39, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

|embargo=01. septembar 2016 is not working and that is OK; only |embargo=1. septembar 2016 should be working and works good (without zero for 1–9).

I was just worried if I messed up something with updates and cannot see it. Thanks however. --Obsuser (talk) 03:09, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

CS1 on itwiki

Hello Trappist the monk, if you have a moment would you take a look at it:Modulo:Citazione? I believe that single module is introducing an HTML5 error that is the source of the majority of the entries at w:it:Categoria:Pagine che utilizzano tag HTML auto-chiusi non validi. Thank you, — xaosflux ^Talk 17:10, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Disregard, saw conversation above. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:11, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: Lines 71 & 72 use <span />. I can't do anything about it because I don't have sufficient privileges at it.wiki so you'll need to find someone there to do the fix (replace with <span></span>).

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:43, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I sent them an edit request. — xaosflux ^Talk 17:54, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

apologies again, and I followed your advice

I apologize again for inadvertently offending you. I have taken your advice and created a relevant |mode= request section at WT:CS1, located here. Tks.   Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 09:32, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

mla 8th

• Eighth Edition.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 10:43, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
• I did find one long thread with sub-threads. I recall asking more than once, but here is perhaps the first one. The frustrating thing about that first encounter was my perception (I aver that it is reality) that the main opposition from 2 editors was dishonest. They had exactly zero-point-zero intentions of ever even considering APA, MLA etc., and were manufacturing arguments to support their unstated goal. Moreover, the argument "many journals have their own standard" is a bit of a straw man. It does not refute my contention (my main point) that we should let authors choose from among a small suite of ultra-common formats that they are comfortable with; it refutes my subsidiary point that I oppose having only one format. Moreover, other individual journals that make up their own format are often a minority within a given field, and more importantly, they do not have articles submitted from every imaginable field, as we in fact do... But the issue you queried was my bitterness, so see my comments about dishonest arguments. Moreover, I recall being explicitly given the brush-off topped with raspberries on this topic by at east one other template editor in another discussion with several editors (I did not see that one editor's username in the thread linked above). Other cases such as that were accumulative poison.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 01:30, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Last unasked-for post on this page, ever: Thank you for mode=mla. Sorry if I offended you. I was bitter against others.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 22:39, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

archivedate and IABot

Hello. Based on this conversation @Cyberpower678: I had some questions about archivedate.

• What's the purpose of adding a blank |df=?[3]
• Is there consensus to convert every |archivedate= to ymd? For example in a Featured Article that uses dmy, a bot that changed archivedate to ymd would probably create feedback from the community. It's also confusing as here,[4] where it sets |df=dmy but then sets |archivedate=ymd.

Thanks, -- GreenC 13:08, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

1. See User talk:Cyberpower678/Archive 36#date format
2. No. I presume that IA bot does not choose to, or is not able to, determine an article's typical archive and access date format. You will need to talk to the bot's operator about that.

|df= was added because MediaWiki tools that provide dates are going to provide those date in the ymd format – rightly, because they don't want to get caught-up in the squabble that invariably arises when determination of an article's date format is the topic.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:51, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

USS Triton link update

Fair enough, and many thanks. 66.103.35.72 (talk) 14:27, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

It's been three years, today.

Wishing Trappist the monk a very happy adminship anniversary on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Chris Troutman (talk) 02:11, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Three years ago ...

templates
... you were recipient no. 610 of Precious, a prize of QAI!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:12, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Extended confirmed protection

Hello, Trappist the monk. This message is intended to notify administrators of important changes to the protection policy.

Extended confirmed protection (also known as "30/500 protection") is a new level of page protection that only allows edits from accounts at least 30 days old and with 500 edits. The automatically assigned "extended confirmed" user right was created for this purpose. The protection level was created following this community discussion with the primary intention of enforcing various arbitration remedies that prohibited editors under the "30 days/500 edits" threshold to edit certain topic areas.

In July and August 2016, a request for comment established consensus for community use of the new protection level. Administrators are authorized to apply extended confirmed protection to combat any form of disruption (e.g. vandalism, sock puppetry, edit warring, etc.) on any topic, subject to the following conditions:

• Extended confirmed protection may only be used in cases where semi-protection has proven ineffective. It should not be used as a first resort.
• A bot will post a notification at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard of each use. MusikBot currently does this by updating a report, which is transcluded onto the noticeboard.

Please review the protection policy carefully before using this new level of protection on pages. Thank you.
This message was sent to the administrators' mass message list. To opt-out of future messages, please remove yourself from the list. 17:50, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Invite to the African Destubathon

Hi. You may be interested in participating in the African Destubathon which starts on October 15. Africa currently has over 37,000 stubs and badly needs a quality improvement editathon/contest to flesh out basic stubs. There are proposed substantial prizes to give to editors who do the most geography, wildlife and women articles, and planned smaller prizes for doing to most destubs for each of the 53 African countries, so should be enjoyable! Even if contests aren't your thing we would be grateful if you could consider destubbing a few African articles during the drive to help the cause and help reduce the massive 37,000 + stub count, of which many are rated high importance (think Regions of countries etc). If you're interested in competing or just loosely contributing, whether it's a river in Malawi, a Nigerian footballer, or a South African civil rights activist, please add your name to the Contestants/participants section. Diversity of work from a lot of people will make this that bit more special. For those of you who signed up to the North African contest, that will hopefully be held in the new year. Thanks.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:31, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

TFD for DVD Notes

The TFD for {{Cite DVD notes}} has been closed. You mentioned that you'd be willing to perform some of the merging tasks such as updating the citation module. Let me know when you get this done so that I can finish up the rest (unless you feel motivated to do that yourself). Cheers, Primefac (talk) 16:34, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

I'll do that. The deletion only applies to {{cite DVD notes}}. {{cite AV media notes}} is not being deleted so I removed the misplaced deletion announcement template that you added.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:27, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

I have done that. Were I doing the rest, I would simply redirect {{cite DVD notes}} to {{cite AV media notes}}, but you apparently have your own procedure to follow, so as an interim state between having a live template and a redirect, I have edited {{cite DVD notes}} so that Module:Citation/CS1 thinks it is getting the template parameters from {{cite AV media notes}}. I leave the rest to you. If you need my assistance, let me know.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:47, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

I see no reason for deletion (there are plenty of transclusions of DVD), so I've redirected. Thanks for doing the hard work! Thanks also for removing the notice from cite AV; if the wrong notice is placed ("delete" rather than "merge") the script tags all the pages as "being deleted" and I don't always remember to check. Primefac (talk) 20:05, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Cite interview deprecation

As you're working through the deprecation of the various parameters specific to cite interview, are you noticing any that don't fit the translation paradigm implemented (e.g. callsign -> something other than publisher)? Just a curiosity on my part. --Izno (talk) 13:09, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Duplicate parameters in cite templates caused by AWB run

Unfortunately, your recent AWB run to replace deprecated parameters has added articles like TRS-80 Model 100 to Category:Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls. I'll clean up some of them, but if you have a few minutes to unhide the parameters that were duplicated, that would be good. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:00, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

From what I can tell, it actually wasn't removal of the deprecated parameters for the most part. Rather, it's that the pages are being edited and there are multiple |type=s, sometimes one with a value and sometimes both with a value. These are just making their way into the category because the run Trappist did forced them "out" of the job queue. I suspect there was basically a bug in the module where multiple could be defined before, even if one or neither were undefined. --Izno (talk) 17:50, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

The duplicate that Editor Jonesey95 found was a |work= parameter. I've tweaked the script to ignore templates that have |work= (or aliases) set. I don't think that there is a bug in the module. I have seen a lot of {{cite interview}} templates with |format=transcript (or similar text) so have been replacing that with |type=. I've changed it a bit so that it mimics your manual edits: |type=Interview: transcript.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:12, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you for your attention. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:33, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Still happening, unfortunately. Maybe Preview your edits before saving? – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:52, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 1 November

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

• On the Nana Awere Damoah page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:17, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Documentation update

If you have time, could you double-check this update to a citation template documentation (where you changed the template following a discussion we both took part in)? Thanks. Carcharoth (talk) 14:49, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

I would suggest that the word 'deprecated' should be replaced with the phrase 'no longer supported'. Terming it deprecated suggests that it is still supported. It is not.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:08, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

CS1 error question.

Hi Trappist. Question, regarding the CS1 external links errors: I have just received a message here from another admin (PBS) asking me not to do something that i have done many times in the understanding that it was correct. The essence seems to be there is no consensus that these external links are errors, if i am understanding correctly. I am certainly confused, i have been slowly going through some of these external link errors and correcting them, have never had a complaint previously; indeed, i'm quite certain that i read a discussion on the Help talk page about this very thing. Can you tell me, should i stop? is there consensus? are external links a problem? should i go back and revert all the edits i have made? or am i reading too much into PBS's message? Thank you. Happy days, Lindsay^Hello 18:12, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Here are some links to discussions at Help talk:Citation Style 1 that may be helpful:

urls in |title= – where we first discussed checking for urls in anything other than url-holding parameters

Publisher plus.google.com – this discussion was, I think, the discussion that got us to add the url-in-|publisher= tests (it refers to a now archived WP:VEF discussion here)

External link in publisher= – a discussion started by Editor PBS regarding the |publisher= tests

To answer your questions:

1. I don't think that you should stop
2. Apparently there is a consensus if Editor PBS is the only editor who is objecting
3. External links in |publisher= are a problem for the citation's metadata (this is noted in the error message's help text)
4. I do not think that you should revert your edits
5. No answer except to say that it is not within my competence to speculate on how you interpret Editor PBS's message

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:40, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you; i knew there were some discussions ~ i'd explored and read when i first came across the CS1 error categories, as i'm not interested in doing things i'm not sure have consensus ~ but couldn't find them a few days ago when i came here. I shall, then, continue with these corrections of the CS1 errors, as i feel it a useful contribution i can make on occasion; the particular category i've been going to, external links, had over 44,000 when i came across it, and now is down to under 33,000 (not that i take credit for much more than a tiny percentage of that drop), so i shall continue whittling away at it. Happy days, Lindsay^Hello 19:24, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Two-Factor Authentication now available for admins

Hello,

Please note that TOTP based two-factor authentication is now available for all administrators. In light of the recent compromised accounts, you are encouraged to add this additional layer of security to your account. It may be enabled on your preferences page in the "User profile" tab under the "Basic information" section. For basic instructions on how to enable two-factor authentication, please see the developing help page for additional information. Important: Be sure to record the two-factor authentication key and the single use keys. If you lose your two factor authentication and do not have the keys, it's possible that your account will not be recoverable. Furthermore, you are encouraged to utilize a unique password and two-factor authentication for the email account associated with your Wikimedia account. This measure will assist in safeguarding your account from malicious password resets. Comments, questions, and concerns may be directed to the thread on the administrators' noticeboard. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:34, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

A new user right for New Page Patrollers

Hi Trappist the monk.

A new user group, New Page Reviewer, has been created in a move to greatly improve the standard of new page patrolling. The user right can be granted by any admin at PERM. It is highly recommended that admins look beyond the simple numerical threshold and satisfy themselves that the candidates have the required skills of communication and an advanced knowledge of notability and deletion. Admins are automatically included in this user right.

It is anticipated that this user right will significantly reduce the work load of admins who patrol the performance of the patrollers. However,due to the complexity of the rollout, some rights may have been accorded that may later need to be withdrawn, so some help will still be needed to some extent when discovering wrongly applied deletion tags or inappropriate pages that escape the attention of less experienced reviewers, and above all, hasty and bitey tagging for maintenance. User warnings are available here but very often a friendly custom message works best.

If you have any questions about this user right, don't hesitate to join us at WT:NPR. (Sent to all admins).MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:48, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

NVR url

Regarding this edit (thanks for taking a look at it, btw, it looks like a neat little ship to have an article on), why is it advantageous to link to that version of the NVR database rather than the "old" one? Info links on the new pages are all broken, so someone wanting a quick idea of what a certain term means will be left in the dark. Seems strange. — Huntster (t @ c) 19:42, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Are you sure? All of the links at the work for me.

The template is there to make our lives easier the next some squeaker ensign feels the need show the chain of command that his/her division is doing something. A relatively simple change to the template's underlying module should be all that is needed to restore access to the NVR when that happens.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:03, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Nope, doesn't work. For example, when I click on Full Displacement, the link it takes me to is http://www.nvr.navy.mil/SHIPDETAILS/..%5CSHIPDETAILS%5CDEFINITION_8.HTML. Same formatting for all of them. Obviously http://www.nvr.navy.mil/SHIPDETAILS/DEFINITION_8.HTML works, but that's not what is being delivered to my browser. — Huntster (t @ c) 20:24, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Trappist the monk. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Monkbot 11

Your ancient BRFA has been approved. — xaosflux ^Talk 01:58, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Template

Trappist, you're pretty clever with technical stuff--can you fix that template? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 15:53, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment but I guess I'm not clever enough to figure out what it is that you want done.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:57, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Look down: the "deprecated parameter" needs fixing. I assume that "coauthor" thing is in the template, and I am under court order to stay away from those. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 15:59, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

The 'fix' is to replace |coauthor(s)= with |authorn= or some other of the author-name parameters. The fix to the cs1|2 templates and Module:Citation/CS1 will come when there are none or very few of the |coauthor(s)= parameters remaining in the wild. See Category:Pages containing cite templates with deprecated parameters which is mostly made up of pages that have cs1|2 templates using |coauthor(s)=.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:14, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks--I think you're saying I need to do it by hand whenever I use the template. Drmies (talk) 18:07, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

@Drmies: The "best" fix is |lastn= and |firstn=; 2nd best is |authorn=; third best is |authors= (or optionally |vauthors= if you like visiting Vancouver). If you don't want to mux with the headache of getting 40 authors into one citation, you can use the last--I think Trappist actually has a bot that just got approved to turn decently-formed |authors= into |authorn=. --Izno (talk) 18:16, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks--but what I really want is to have "author2" or something like that in place of "coauthor" in the actual citation template helper. I use that thing all the time, and most of the time those news articles have one or two, not three editors. Drmies (talk) 18:24, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Consider Wikipedia:RefToolbar 2.0b. It doesn't have |coauthor(s)= and will allow you to add more than 3 |authorn= parameters (you have to click the Show/hide extra fields button).

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:40, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Oh that's interesting. That old toolbar doesn't work for me anyway--too many buttons I never use, and that "Cite" button is sometimes on the right, sometimes in the left area. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 19:14, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

@Drmies: So then I'm still confused. What is the the actual citation template helper that you use?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:53, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure. The simple one. I just "updated" to that fancier toolbar by checking some "enhanced" box in my preferences. And there, "coauthor" is the name of the field in the citation templates. I just started working with the new toolbar (2.0b, I suppose), but I already don't like it since it doesn't seem to have an autofill function for news citations, unless I missed it. Drmies (talk) 01:45, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Happy new year

Pintoch (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Thanks a lot for your tireless work on CS1/2! I hope you can enjoy some well-deserved holidays. − Pintoch (talk) 10:46, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks

Would it take you very long to link the rest. Just the ones from December. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 01:52, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

No. But it won't happen tonight.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 02:17, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks anyway, someone made a lua module for it. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 02:29, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

New Wikiproject!

Hello, Trappist the monk! I saw you recently edited a page related to the Green party and green politics. There is a new WikiProject that has been formed - WikiProject Green Politics and I thought this might be something you'd be interested in joining! So please head on over to the project page and take a look! Thanks for your time. Me-123567-Me (talk) 19:33, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

template NRHP url

Hi, you are the sole editor of Template:NRHP url and related Template:NRHP url/core. There is currently a problem accessing NRHP documents using the {{NRHP url}} system, which has been brought up at wt:NRHP#NPS down. It would be great if you could chime in. --doncram 20:17, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter - February 2017

News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2017). This first issue is being sent out to all administrators, if you wish to keep receiving it please subscribe. Your feedback is welcomed.

Administrator changes

NinjaRobotPirate • Schwede66 • K6ka • Ealdgyth • Ferret • Cyberpower678 • Mz7 • Primefac • Dodger67

Briangotts • JeremyA • BU Rob13

Guideline and policy news

• A discussion to workshop proposals to amend the administrator inactivity policy at Wikipedia talk:Administrators has been in process since late December 2016.
• Wikipedia:Pending changes/Request for Comment 2016 closed with no consensus for implementing Pending changes level 2 with new criteria for use.
• Following an RfC, an activity requirement is now in place for bots and bot operators.

Technical news

• When performing some administrative actions the reason field briefly gave suggestions as text was typed. This change has since been reverted so that issues with the implementation can be addressed. (T34950)
• Following the latest RfC concluding that Pending Changes 2 should not be used on the English Wikipedia, an RfC closed with consensus to remove the options for using it from the page protection interface, a change which has now been made. (T156448)
• The Foundation has announced a new community health initiative to combat harassment. This should bring numerous improvements to tools for admins and CheckUsers in 2017.

Arbitration

• The Arbitration Committee released a response to the Wikimedia Foundation's statement on paid editing and outing.

Obituaries

• JohnCD (John Cameron Deas) passed away on 30 December 2016. John began editing Wikipedia seriously during 2007 and became an administrator in November 2009.

---

Discuss this newsletter • Subscribe • Archive

13:38, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

cs1 template data

Moved to User_talk:Janweh64#cs1 template data

One discussion in one place please.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:54, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Yo Ho Ho

Iryna Harpy (talk) is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{subst:User:WereSpielChequers/Dec16a}} to your friends' talk pages.