Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 October 22

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October 22

Link to talk page in signature does not work

help. someone please analyze here it is

RaveRaiser ^Haters

It appears to be working just fine. What sort of problems are you having? Andrew Nutter (talk) 00:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

It works fine. Maybe you tested it in your talk page? Then it wouldn't work. BTW, isn't it a bit too long? See WP:Sig. Cheers. Chamal ^talk 00:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Deleted Articles

Is there any way to view old versions of articles that once existed but have since been deleted? Andrew Nutter (talk) 00:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

You can find all versions from the article's history. Click on the date and time link and it will show you the version that existed on that day. But if you're talking about deleted articles, you'll have to ask an admin to allow you to view those pages (you have to provide a good reason too). Cheers. Chamal ^talk 00:19, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Just to clarify, history and deletedhistory are two separate things. Admins can delete revisions from the page history (or the entire page history) so that it will only be visible to them (through the interface Special:Undelete). For a deleted page, only an admin can provide the history, if it's not a copyright violation, spam or BLP-problematic. In rare cases, the edits can be oversighted, so only oversighters (a very select group with this extra user right; see also m:Hiding revisions) can view them. This is done in extremely rare cases, in which a privacy violation has occurred. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 00:23, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Unadministration member semiprotecting(?)

Hello. I am going to create an article about Doctor Bryan Dennis Boyd, Ed.D. He is the inventor of an education method that improved schools.

However, despite his degree(s), Dr. Boyd teaches at a middle school (I have him in fact!). As a result, I want to have the article semi-protected so only established users can edit it. Is it possible that a user that is not an administrator could semi-protect such an article?--Archeopteryx (talk) 00:35, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, no. WP:SEMI says that protection cannot be pre-emptively placed on an article. If there is persistent vandalism, the page can be protected. Also, only admins have page-protection rights. A good way to maintain the article is to place it on your watchlist so you can keep track of recent changes. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 00:46, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I fail to see why him teaching at a middle school would require the article to be protected. - Mgm|^(talk) 19:56, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I thought about that also, but then I remember what middle school was like. If I knew one of my teachers had a Wikipedia page…, well, let's just say I'm older and wiser now. :-) TN‑X-Man 20:02, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Deleted Edits

I've long been confused about this issue. Today, for example, I checked my edits using Interiot's tool, which came out to ~3000. However, I checked back a few hours later and the number was all the way down to 2950. What happened that I had something like 70 edits deleted in a number of hours? Would these be rollbacks, edits to pages that were later deleted, or what? --tennisman 01:45, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

A rollbacked edit would still count as an edit, to my knowledge. Page deletion is the only way to make edits disappear, to my knowledge. You can check your total edit count in Special:Preferences, which will include deleted edits, although that wouldn't tell you when the pages got deleted. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 03:03, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The deleted edit count confused me. At one point I had -200 according to the counter! PeterSymonds (talk) 07:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

You had a lot of edits to User:Teh tennisman/Userboxen which was deleted a few hours before your post on your own request. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:15, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Le random communes

I have noticed that when I use the "Random article" link, I almost always get an article about a French commune within a few clicks (I just got two in the last 5 clicks). Is there just a large number of articles about French communes, or is there another reason for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by WAYB (talk • contribs) 01:58, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I just got two more, but this time with 54 clicks. Even this seems very high as I can't imagine that 4% of articles on Wikipedia are about French communes! —Preceding unsigned comment added by WAYB (talk • contribs) 02:08, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I think articles on all the French communes were created semi-automatically some time this year, similarly to the way that many U.S. geographical articles were created a couple of years back. I suspect the 4% is an overestimate based on a small sample size, but with about 37,000 Communes of France, then assuming an article on every one out of about 2,600,000 articles gives about 1.4% of articles. By comparison, User:Rambot has created over 30,000 articles on U.S. cities and towns, giving it about 1.1% of all articles. Assuming that Special:Random picks out of those 2,600,000 articles with equal probability (I can't remember what its algorithm actually is), you'd expect to run into a French commune every 70 articles or so. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 02:59, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Some more information about Special:Random is under: WP:EIW#Random. For example, you could try reading random featured articles and that would presumably eliminate most of the French communes, as I doubt many could have attained featured article status yet. You can also search the Help desk archive with Google for: random article and see what people have discussed here in the past. --Teratornis (talk) 03:08, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

2 in 100 for me. At #18 and 51. Grsz^Review! 03:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Pan Cyber

<spam removed> Bencherlite^Talk 11:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Accidentally log myself out

Whenever I delete my browsing history, if I happen to be editing on Wikipedia, I accidentally log myself out too. How do I prevent that? --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 05:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

My suggestion is to not delete your browsing history until you're not using Wikipedia at the moment. That way, it won't log you out during session time. Master&Expert (Talk) 06:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. :) --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 06:11, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

No problem. :) Master&Expert (Talk) 06:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

At a guess, you're deleting cookies at the same time as your browsing history. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 20:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

can wikipedia be my homepage??

Can wikipedia be my homepage?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.130.47.145 (talk) 10:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Sure. What browser are you using? In Internet Explorer, go to Tools-->Internet options and put http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page (or any other wikipedia page) in the box under Homepage. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 11:07, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Some users like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random which produces a random page each time. The "Random article" link in the navigation box to the left also links there. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Categories confusion

I couldnt really get to grips with how to include a living person in categories. The page I am helping to edit on the artist Nadia Hebson has a message saying I need those categories but am unsure how to include on the pages 'British painters' and 'Alunmi of Central St. Martins School of Art'. what wiki character do I need and where do I put it on the page? Thanks very much for your help, sorry if it is glaringly obvious. mea culpa! --Humblejohn (talk) 12:07, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Just add [[Category:name]] at the bottom of the article for each category you want to include (replacing "name" with the name of the category). By the way, the name you want for the second one you mentioned is "Alumni of the Central Saint Martins College of Art and Design". (You may want to look at the edit window of an article that's already categorized to get a sense of the usual placement and arrangement of the category tags.) Deor (talk) 12:23, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Fuhghettaboutit has added categories to Nadia Hebson. See [1] for how it was done. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:07, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Foreign language links

How should we proceed with foreign language links? For me it is understandable that the Japan wiki-page has links to Japanese web-pages, but should random links for non-English pages be deleted? I personally don't believe they are useful for most user, since they could consult a foreign language wiki for that purpose. Mr.K. (talk) 15:47, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I personally believe they shouldn't. Each link isn't random; they cover the subject on all wikis with that name. On some articles, they can't have all international links, due to the coverage. If you wish to proceed with a proposal, WP:VPP is the correct place to go. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 15:53, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

• Links in foreign languages usually aren't random. Either they are in the language that is relevant to the article (French links for a French singer article for example) or they are simply the only resource there is. Just because a link is in non-English, doesn't mean it's not reliable. - Mgm|^(talk) 20:00, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Sources

Hi there, I hope you don't mind me coming here to ask a question. It's my first day at Wikipedia and I'm going through the Tutorial. I've got the external sources figured out, I'm only stumped by how to add a source to a book which is not on a website, perhaps I've missed it on the tutorial. Thanks. Titch Tucker (talk) 16:11, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

sure, no problem. There's no requirement that the source has a link. You could footnote the source exactly as you would footnote a source in a print report. We have citation templates, located at WP:CITET which can help you organize bibliographic information. If you find these hard to use, drop me a note on my talk page and I can teach you specifically how to do it! --Jayron32.talk.contribs 16:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Also, see Plymouth colony, a featured article I worked extensively on, as to how both books and websites can be cited. You could use examples from that article to help you see how things are formatted. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 16:19, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply and information. Titch Tucker (talk) 16:37, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

It's good that you are tackling references on your first day of editing on Wikipedia. You'll need to read these pages: WP:RS, WP:V, WP:FOOT, WP:CITE, and the above-mentioned WP:CITET. See the {{Cite book}} template's page for documentation on the specific input fields. If you have trouble figuring out how to use {{Cite book}}, you can tell us the name of the book, and we will show you what to do. Citation tools are available to help with formatting citation templates. For example, {{Google scholar cite}} sometimes lets you look up a book on Google Books and automatically generate a pre-filled {{Cite book}} template for it. --Teratornis (talk) 19:45, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm very grateful for the advice. I have copied the pages you recommended to me on my sandbox and will read through them all. Thanks. Titch Tucker (talk) 20:01, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I predict from your logical approach to learning Wikipedia that you will be a successful contributor. You might want to group items on your user page into sections, because you will probably add to them. Click on my username to see how I organized my user page. My user page is by no means the state of the art in userpage design, but it's simple enough for a new user to emulate right away. When you get into heavy article editing, you might want to keep detailed notes on a user subpage, like I do here: User:Teratornis/Energy. On that page, I keep track of some articles I'm working on, how I search for references, and so on. If you do complex edits, it's hard to just wing it by looking only at the articles as you edit them. You might also need to write some notes about what you are doing. Plus your notes then become handy for other users to examine, if they want to know what you are doing. --Teratornis (talk) 07:50, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Barack Obama

I'm trying to read about Barack when I encountered a really bad paragraph about him in the Early Life and Career section. Please clean this up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.201.253.22 (talk) 16:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

It has already been removed, and the person who added it has been blocked. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:23, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

In the future, you can fix it yourself. Wikipedia receives its fair share of vandalism, and anyone, even you, can fix it. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 16:24, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The article is semi-protected so only autoconfirmed users can edit it. Others can suggest edits by posting to the talk page (click the "discussion" tab). PrimeHunter (talk) 16:35, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

copy of proof of graduation

require proof to become substitute in Arizona elementary school —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.44.6.188 (talk) 16:22, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

To get proof of your graduation from college, contact the transcripts department of the college you attended. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:24, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello. I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over two million articles, and thought that we were directly affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the online free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is a help desk for asking questions related to using the encyclopedia. Thus, we have no inside track on the subject of your question. You can contact the school (high school or university) that you graduated from and request transcripts through the transcripts department. Best of luck! Scottydude _talk 16:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Image Trouble

Hello, Help Desk; long time listener, first time caller. So there I was, tooling around Wikipedia, minding my own business, when all of the sudden I noticed that about two-thirds of the images aren't working. Instead of Wikipedia's beautiful public domain (or at least fair use) images, I see little boxes with red "x"s. Did I break Wikipedia? I KNEW I had too many userboxes on my page...  ;-) Nutiketaiel (talk) 18:45, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

You broke everything! :-) Actually, I spot checked some articles and can see images. Are there any particular articles where the images do not display? TN‑X-Man 19:10, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, my user page for starters. About 2/3 of the images there don't work. Same with almost every article I visit, including Alien (Alien franchise), Dawnstar, Ayla Ranzz, Superboy, Legion of Super-Heroes, all the images on the Main_Page, and even some of the editing buttons up above this box that I'm typing in right now. Nutiketaiel (talk) 19:35, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. I'm not sure what to tell you. I can see the images on all of those pages. It may be something with your browser. Have tried restarting your browser and/or clearing your cache? TN‑X-Man 19:48, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I've restarted the browser AND the whole computer. What's a "cache," in this context? Nutiketaiel (talk) 19:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Other users have reported this problem. Search Help desk for: cannot see images. The problem would seem to be in the user's Web browser settings (since most other users can see the images, the problem almost certainly cannot be on the server). Many browsers have the ability to block images from particular sites, and somehow this setting can get toggled on even if the user does not consciously select it. I don't know how that happens; it might result from bumping a hot-key combination accidentally. If you want specific advice about where to find this mysterious setting, you will have to tell us the name and version number of your browser, and maybe someone who reads this will have the same browser and know where the setting is. --Teratornis (talk) 19:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

A cache in this context would simply be your browser cache - your history, cookies, etc. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 20:33, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's Internet Explorer, but I don't know how to determine the version number. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Found it. Internet Explorer 6.0.2900.2180.xpsp_sp2_qfe.070227-2300 Nutiketaiel (talk) 19:24, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

And never mind. The problem seems to have corrected itself. Nutiketaiel (talk) 11:55, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

help plz

I was wondering on your page how you can get the boxes that say, this user is canadian, a femanists, etc... If you could help, that would be great. Thanks!

Rockergurl92 (talk) 23:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Try looking here. There are some Canadian ones here, and some feminist ones here. Add the code shown (e.g. {{User:UBX/feminism}} on your userpage. Hope this helps. Bencherlite^Talk 23:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

You can also check out Wikipedia:Userboxes for general info. Darkspots (talk) 00:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

And for more information than you probably wanted, see WP:EIW#Userbox. --Teratornis (talk) 01:03, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Admin help

I was an admin on wikipedia for quite some time. but one day, i went on and found that i had been reverted back to a normal editor. all of the tools were gone! Can anyone help? Cole Davidson ><}}}`> (talk) 23:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, perhaps it's due to the fact that your account was created in July 2008, and this account has never had admin rights. Are you confusing Wikipedia with another wiki where you had admin rights? Bencherlite^Talk 23:12, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I forgot to elaborate in the first statement. After the admin status was gone, the next time I tried to log in, it wouldn't let me. I did the send me password, buut it said that the account dosen't exist. I created this account so that I would still have one.

Cole Davidson ><}}}`> (talk) 23:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

What was the name of the previous account. We can't really help you if we don't know that much. Scottydude _talk 23:47, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The account was cole1181. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cole12321 (talk • contribs) 23:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

That account never existed. PeterSymonds (talk) 23:53, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Like i said, the system says the same thing. Cole Davidson ><}}}`> (talk) 23:55, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, you must be confusing this account with another. All accounts registered on Wikipedia are never allowed to be registered again, unless a rename has occurred, vacating the former account. There's no record of a user by that name, nor of a request for adminship, the only way to become a sysop on this wiki. Are you quite sure this is the account you're thinking of? PeterSymonds (talk) 00:02, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

You can see all English Wikipedia accounts starting with Cole1 (treated the same as cole1 by the software) at [2]. Note that an account at another Wikipedia language or Wikimedia project or wiki would not work here on the English Wikipedia or not be an admin account. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:59, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

When Wikipedia first started, some of the tools now relegated only to admins apparently were available to all users; everyone was an "admin". I don't know about the account name issue, and suspect like others that you are not remembering it quite right, but is it possible that the time you are thinking of when you "were an admin" was around 2001-2002? If not, please explain the process you went through in order to become an admin. Early adminship (once it became something that could actually be granted) was not apparently done through a formal request page as has been for the past few years. Like Peter says, it most likely that you would have to have had a page like Wikipedia:Requests for Adminship/name, and have gone through a nomination and examination process, but if it was in that early window you might not have. I thought this: Wikipedia:Administrators as it existed on September 20, 2002 was interesting. None of the admins listed there have formal request pages unless they later had to reapply.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 01:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, everything was the same as today (there were still users and sysops). There was only one administrative role account in the early days, and editors who wanted +sysop had to request the password from Jimbo Wales. Then user groups became more advanced in 2003/2004; a number of users were assigned +bureaucrat, and a proper requests page was set up as we know it today. PeterSymonds (talk) 07:46, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

At least according to what is implied at in the current text of WP:ADMIN, in the very early days, in 2001, when you signed up you were automatically a sysop, set up as the signup default. This further implies that they only later changed the signup parameters so that when you signed up you were defaulted to a user account, and only then had to request it from Jimbo (or maybe Jimbo and Sanger). This is all probably academic with respect to the OP.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 10:30, 23 October 2008 (UTC)