Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 December 27

Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current Help Desk pages.

December 27

Mistake

Sorry, an mistake. Please set it back to before i editted this

Why doesn't the films table in Barbara Stanwyck filmography have a line at the bottom? Clarityfiend (talk) 00:51, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

There was a rowspan="2" code which indicated there should have been one more row but the extra row was not there. This causes some but not all browsers to not display a line at the bottom. I fixed it.[1] PrimeHunter (talk) 01:32, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

2009	Thanks
	Thanks

Clarityfiend (talk) 02:32, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

route location

coming from antipolo city which is the shortest route going to sm city north edsa? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.105.177.241 (talk) 00:59, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Have you tried the Humanities section of Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in answering knowledge questions there; this help desk is only for questions about using Wikipedia. For your convenience, here is the link to post a question there: click here. I hope this helps. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:34, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Opening article drafts for review

I am working on the basics for a new article, currently located at User:Scottius11/Lancefield railway line, Victoria. What is the best way to request criticism/comments/improvements from other users before I move it out of my userpage? In particular, I need a bit of help with perfecting the Template:Railway line header. Scottius11 (talk) 02:02, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

The best place to ask for comments is Wikipedia:Requests for feedback, and I see you've already made a request there. --Mysdaao ^talk 03:41, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Return/get first word of page title

Would it be possible through the use of a template or any other means to be able to quote the certain words from a page's title? Consider this page's title for example "Help desk". Is it possible by some means to write a code so that the word "Help" is written/returned? (or if this 'code' or whatever is placed on some other page it writes/returns the first word from the title) --72.241.13.250 (talk) 02:58, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I think a better choice of a word instead of quote would be return. Thanks. --72.241.13.250 (talk) 03:05, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##titleparts is the closest thing I know of, but is not exactly what you want. See the links under WP:EIW#Template and WP:EIW#Magic. You might ask on WP:VPT if you don't get an answer here. There is a mw:Extension:StringFunctions available for MediaWiki, but it's not installed on Wikipedia. --Teratornis (talk) 04:36, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

The template is rather new, but it works: {{first word|{{PAGENAME}}}} -> Help —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:38, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

I was at the new pages forum and there are a lot of pages there that are vandalism, so I tried marking them as that and it worked with ((Vandalism)) (but with the other kind of brackets). Are there other ways to mark pages as pages that do not belong? There's a new page called Ispystrangers as an example that may not be vandalism but it is just a blank page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lady in polka dot (talk • contribs) 03:18, 27 December 2009 (UTC) Oh I didn't sign.--Lady in polka dot (talk) 03:22, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

You may want to take a look at WP:NPP and WP:SPEEDY, those pages might help you out. ArcAngel (talk) 03:28, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

creating category article

at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_wizard_2.0/Wizard-Ready_for_submission the article says that after creating a new Userspace draft "you'll see instructions on how to get your draft ready". when i did this ABSOLUTELY NOTHING APPEARED! Wran (talk) 03:43, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Do you refer to User:Wran/Egg breads? Maybe you misunderstand categories. See Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and navigation templates. --Teratornis (talk) 04:26, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

yes, that's what i'm referring to; but i can't find anything in either of the links you give that adresses my question Wran (talk) 07:46, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

The directions to create a category are at Help:Category#Category pages. Basically, categories are created just like any other page. Just add the category to a page using the category name you want. That will create a redlink to the category on the bottom of the page. Click on the redlink, add any information want to the category page, and then save it. Then add the category to other pages you want in the category, and that will automatically populate the list on the category page. --Mysdaao ^talk 16:08, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Umm kinda stupid question :S

Is there a page that tells me how to create a table/chart for Wiki? Link please? Thanks :) Cruise meerkat (talk) 06:39, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I think Help:Table is what you're looking for. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 11:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Bob Marley

HI there - I am a member of the Marley Family and when looking at the Bob Marley page we found 2 mistakes under his personal information. Our web person tried to fix these mistakes a while back but was not allowed. Please let us know how to go about correcting them.

1. 1 Bob Marley did NOT father a child named Imani Carole, born May 22, 1963 to Cheryl Murray (this person needs to be removed)
2. 2 Makeda Marley needs to be removed as his child. Please note that she was born after Bob Marley's death and although she was initially acknowledged as child and received compensation from the estate at the time of his death she is not recognized as his child by the family. Please check the official Bob Marley website that is being maintained by the family members and under family you can see all the children. Please let me know if you can correct these 2 points for us. Thank you.Aniohevetotcha (talk) 07:40, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Because you are associated with the subject of the article, it is strongly suggested that you not edit the article because that is a conflict of interest. You should request the edits be made on the discussion page for the article at Talk:Bob Marley. Because Wikipedia policy is that content must be verifiable by reliable secondary sources, you should provide a source that says these two people were not Bob Marley's children, other than the official site. Because the official site is run by the family, it is not sufficient to verify what you say. --Mysdaao ^talk 16:23, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I have edited to remove these two from the main list, as they are not listed at the official site. However, since there are sources on the web that say that they are Marely's children, I did not think it proper to remove them completely, but described the uncertainty.

In the case of Makeda, I note that Meredith Dixon lists her as Marley's daughter, unsurprisingly given you say she was at first acknowledged. But I cannot add the information you give about her status subsequently changing without a reliable published source.

The case of Imani Carole is different: there are many places on the web that mention her, but I did not find any reliable ones. It would be within Wikipedia's guidelines just to remove her; but since there are so many places that mention her I thought that this would be unwise, as somebody else will just add her in again (still without a reference). So I have explicitly said that there are places on the web that list her, but the official site does not.

I realise that this does not go as far as you have requested, but as always Wikipedia's criterion is verifiability not truth. If there is a published source explaining that Makeda's status changed, or that Imani Carole is definitely not a child of Bob Marley, then this information can go into the article. But as it stands, I'm afraid we cannot accept the information you have given. --ColinFine (talk) 16:38, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Sound clips

I've moved this from Jimbo's talkpage.  Skomorokh  11:07, 27 December 2009 (UTC) Completely lost

OK, this is probably completely the wrong place to be but in 45 minutes of searching it is the first place I can actually post a comment. The last thing I want is to conceal my internet address.

I looked up the (British) NHS (National Health Service) for a book chapter I am writing. I found a number of significant sound clips but clicking on any one of them brought up the message "this is not available in your area". We are talking about items that are 60 years old and so out of copyright. So what gives? Can anyone give me an answer?

OK, I have really low expectations of getting a reply.

Dr Guy Cox, <email address redacted> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.173.16.156 (talk) 11:03, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

• Please do not include contact details in your questions. We are unable to provide answers by any off-wiki medium and this page is highly visible across the internet. The details have been removed, but if you wish for them to be permanently removed from the page history, email this address.
• Are you talking about sound clips on Wikipedia? If so, could you give links to specific ones, then we can help more! If you are talking about sound clips on the web in general, many streams (both video and audio) are only allowed in the country in which they are hosted. For example, UK visitors to US websites can't see TV episodes. As for its copyright status, generally works are copyrighted for 50 years (see IPO's notes) - but the problem isn't the copyright, but the fact that you are trying to access a stream on a UK site from a non-UK site. You might want to contact the website owners and ask them about it.

Alternatively: Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer just about any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps.

As you left this question elsewhere, I am leaving a message on your talk page referring to this reply. -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 13:06, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

adding a full article from an official source to the minimal bio already existing in Wikipedia

This is the first time to add information vs. edit existing info. We do not have time to incorporate more information into the existing biography of Doris Twitchell Allen, but have found an excellent full length aricle on the CISV Youngstown Ohio website that offers a lot more information about DTA. Is it possible to just copy and paste this article and provide the source citation? Is there a special way to do this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doris_Allen existing article

article we'd like to add: http://youngstown.cisvusa.org/basic%20information/Doris%20Twitchell%20Allen.htm

Thank you for your help. Katie and John Greenman —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayfrancis (talk • contribs) 15:13, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, probably not. First of all, Wikipedia cannot accept copy/pasted material where the copyright status is unclear. If you own the copyright to the material in question, then this page can help you. Secondly, the article is written from a very positive slant and Wikipedia articles should be written from a neutral point of view. The best way to use the document provided is to verify some of the facts listed in the article and cite your source. TNXMan 15:25, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

ridding an article of inappropriate templates

I was still in the process of creating the page Ed Naha when objections regarding originality, notability, references, and neutrality were raised, even though a glance at the page history would have revealed that the article was in a state of rapid development. This shows an absence of good faith on the part of the editors imposing these templates.

I have posted to the talk pages of the objecting editors, but haven't gotten their attention. How can I best get a set of objective eyes to evaluate the article and these templates? Bustter (talk) 18:19, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

A good place to go to get comments is Wikipedia:Requests for feedback.

They're not assuming bad faith by adding those templates, even if you're in the middle of making changes. It's an important part of an article's creation to let editors and readers know about potential problems, so they can be resolved and the article can be improved. I see you posted messages to those users less than 2 hours ago. You can't always expect an immediate response, and there's no rush because on Wikipedia, there is no deadline. --Mysdaao ^talk 18:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Of course there is no deadline, yet the "rush to judgement" on the article's validity came within five minutes of its creation. If it's clear that I am working on a newly created article, shouldn't a "presumption of good faith" bring the presumption that I am addressing the very issues being raised? The two editors who saddled the article with their templates, had they noted that I was working on the piece, should certainly revisit it after my activity was done. Further, the challenge against Naha's "notability" is clearly spurious, as searching for his name in Wikipedia itself demonstrates. Bustter (talk) 19:14, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

This is why it is often a good idea to work on an article in your userspace, and move it to article space when it's ready. --ColinFine (talk) 20:29, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Bustter, this is bad faith, when your editing is interrupted by a rush to tag. If it had been an attempt to assist you or improve the article, the tagger would not have interrupted your writing to tag. The article does have a lot of issues, particularly with the close paraphrasing, that need addressed. I will see what I can do to help with the article. There is no hurry to tag an article. The tagger can wait a day until you're done writing, the tagger can edit the article, the tagger can point you to resources. There are alternatives. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 20:35, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree whole-heartedly! For someone to jump in and start criticizing a writer's work before he has even completed composing its first draft are the actions of a braying donkey. Every writer deserves the necessary quiet time to simply write down his own thoughts and to edit or reorganize them before being interrupted by criticism. Doing otherwise is rather like interrupting a cook at his or her work, and interjecting, "I don't like the way that you are peeling that potato."
For Pete's sake, it is a work in progress.98.67.170.12 (talk) 14:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

If a user were judging the article's "validity", someone would have nominated it for deletion. That hasn't happened. Maintenance templates are not meant to attack the article. No article is perfect, and even very good, longstanding articles sometimes have templates on them pointing out ways to improve it. Please don't take it personally or be possessive of the article you created. All Wikipedia content is edited collaboratively (editing includes adding maintenance templates). Please read Wikipedia:Ownership of articles for this policy. If you want to request that other users not edit while you are in the middle of a series of changes, you can put {{inuse}} or {{increation}} templates, or another template from Category:Under-construction templates to let others know it is being actively worked on, as long as you remove it when you have completed your work. --Mysdaao ^talk 22:25, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

You know, it looks like the editor who tagged the article is trying hard to work withyou Bustter. Maybe go with it, instead of forum shopping. --IP69.226.103.13 (talk) 20:57, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

You are correct (wrt slashme, anyway) and I've conveyed my thanks to him. Should have updated here that the situation seems on the mend.

Anyway, I was not "form shopping." I asked a precedural question, that is, how to recruit a set of objective eyes to appraise the work, in one place -- right here, which I still believe is the appropriate place. Bustter (talk) 23:15, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, no; this is not the place. That would be Wikipedia:Requests for feedback. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:13, 29 December 2009 (UTC) (who hopes Ed is doing well)

Graphemes

There has been some discussion on Talk:Latin spelling and pronunciation about the use of chevrons/angle brackets to represent graphemes - for instance "macrons are frequently used to mark long vowels (‹ā›, ‹ē›, ‹ī›, ‹ō›, ‹ū›)" - my view is that the chevrons are ugly, unnecessary and distracting and this would be much better written as just "macrons are frequently used to mark long vowels (ā, ē, ī, ō, ū)" - the letters are here being used to represent themselves and the situation is therefore quite different to the use of slashes and square brackets to indicate that the letters they surround have a special phonemic or phonetic value. Ohters clearly take a different view. I'm not sure if this is the correct place to raise this issue, but if not perhaps someone could advise me where it should be raised. --rossb (talk) 19:27, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

The place to discuss it is exactly where it has been discussed (where there has been a fair bit of discussion). If you really can't agree than see dispute resolution. But what you have done here looks a bit like "They won't listen to me there so I'll come and find somebody else to complain to". Apologies if that is not what you intend. --ColinFine (talk) 21:49, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I think the point I wanted to make is that only a few people have participated in the debate on the article in question, but it's surely a more general issue which ought to have a wider airing. I note for instance that the grapheme article has no mention of this convention --rossb (talk) 22:26, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't mention very much of anything, including any references. It does however use the convention twice, even if it does not explain it. I have rarely come across the term 'grapheme' in linguistics (it's relevant to a rather specialised subfield, that of writing systems) but I am very familiar with the use of chevrons to enclose characters of a script (rather than graphemes stricto sensu) as opposed to sounds (whether phonemes or morphemes). --ColinFine (talk) 00:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Alt text parameter for an infobox

Help please Can someone add a parameter to Template:Infobox Bibliography to allow for alt text? Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:44, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Please discuss at Template talk:Infobox Bibliography. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 19:57, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

 Done —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:16, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Fix

Resolved

Can someone fix this page Tennis at the 2009 Southeast Asian Games - Women's Doubles? Thanks in advance. Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 19:44, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

A link was closed with a single bracket. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 20:01, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 09:30, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

1.000.000

hi guys.

the german wikipedia now has a million articles on stock... =:-) seems you'll have to create a new cat on the english main (bottom) site at "Wikipedia languages": more than a million articles.

anyway, thx for all & have nice 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.202.51.173 (talk) 19:53, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

• It has been sorted! Incidently, if anyone wants to add to my congratulations message on the German Wikipedia, I've put it here: de:Wikipedia_Diskussion:Eine-Million-Artikel-Seite#Herzlichen Glückwunsch aus der englischen Wikipedia-Editor (Congratulations from an English Wikipedia editor) - and if anyone can do a better translation of the phrases I used, please feel free to add them! -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 21:37, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

  I should add that I didn't sort it (as the template is fully protected), but I asked for it to be done, and an admin did it -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 21:38, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you PhantomSteve, I owe you one... =:-) Again, thanks to everone ('round the world) for this project -- thank you, and you all have a pleasant 2010, will you? Off now for a new years trip to Crete (Greece), 27 °C weather prognosis for the next week... =:-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.202.42.81 (talk) 05:02, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

something is wrong with an article

If you think something is wrong, or misunderstand what is being said, how do you know and contact the person that has written it ???

As it says on the Potential energy page;

If the work done moving along a path which starts and ends in the same location is zero.

How can something move alone a path and back and have zero work ??? As mechanical work is the amount of energy transferred by a force acting through a distance

Mind you I just thought of this, BUT IT DOES [u]NOT[/u] say there was any work done on the path !!!

<redacted email address> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Waynesplash (talk • contribs) 20:43, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

• Please do not include contact details in your questions. We are unable to provide answers by any off-wiki medium and this page is highly visible across the internet. The details have been removed, but if you want them to be permanently removed from the page history, please email oversight-llists.wikimedia.org.
• The best place to discuss it is on the article's talk page (in this case, Talk:Potential energy. -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 20:46, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

IIRC, the phrase you have quoted, far from being incoherent, is the definition of a conservative field. --ColinFine (talk) 21:52, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Federal Ruling

I'm trying to find federal court ruling on the following topic: Maybe you have some suggestions!
The topic is:
Attorney and client priviliege when it comes to business records. These would be records used to file their tax returns with the state as-well-as with the IRS. Note:
I am currently a plaintiff in a civil case where-as the defendants attorney are claiming that such business records are priviliege, and I am claiming that such records are by nature public when they can be used for filing taxes and for making business and marketing promotional packages. Do you think that anyone can help me?
Manly R. Willis
Email at: (removed, we don't give email addresses here, spammers will love you) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.223.209.141 (talk) 21:27, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

You could try FindLaw or another legal search engine. This Help Desk is only for questions directly relating to Wikipedia; for all other knowledge questions, including this one, the Reference Desk is better equipped to help. Xenon54 / talk / 21:44, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

It should be noted that the Reference Desk is unable to offer legal advice to our readers. Your attorney should be familiar with these references; if you don't have an attorney, you should probably consult one. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:41, 28 December 2009 (UTC)