Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 September 27

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September 27

incorrectly made 2 pages

Dear Wiki, While I was trying to make a wiki page for the band Doomfire, i made to two pages on accident. I am wondering on how can i delete them?Dethsoldier101 (talk) 01:46, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I've placed a CSD tag on the one I found, and the same tags have been placed on the others you created, so they should be taken care of shortly. ArcAngel (talk) 01:50, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Please read up on our notability guidelines for bands. Intelligentsium 02:01, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

For future reference, if you create an article page which you want deleted (and you are the only significant author), just put the tag {{db-self}} at the top of the page. This will indicate that The author of the only substantial content has requested deletion in good faith, either explicitly or by blanking the page. Please note that if other editors have done significant editing, the deletion may not be allowed. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 08:27, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Infobox awards

please someone create an infobox for the awards. I am facing great difficulty without it and I even do not know to create it. Please help me. please it is my earnest request to anyone.--Karyasuman (talk) 06:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

What awards are we talking about? There is an award template at Template:Awards for acting awards, but looking at your contributions I would guess some kind of Cricket award such as one of the ICC Awards? As a rule, these are listed on the individual sportsperson's article as "honours" (for example, see David_beckham#Honours). -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 08:24, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

How to remove an unwanted script?

Resolved

 – Apparently... – ukexpat (talk) 15:40, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Someone,(a user Eukesh) probably trying to be helpful, put a script on the Dzongkha Wikipedia which is supposed to allow one to type Dzongkha (Tibetan script) by using translitteration - however Eukesh who wrote the script (which appears to be based on one for Indic languages)may be well intentioned but obviously doesn't understand a thing about Dzongkha translitteration. Consequently this script has to be manually turned off with each and every edit. I have suggested he correct the script - but that hasn't happened, and also asked him several times to remove it - but that hasn't happened either. I would remove the script myself, but don't know how to. Can someone please help with this!!! Unless turned off it only makes it impossible to edit Dzongkha Wikipedia articles (which may be one of the reasons why no one has been participationg there). Chris Fynn (talk) 06:58, 27 September 2009 (UTC).

P.S. As a matter of principle, even if they work, shouldn't scripts like this which modify keyboard input be turned off by default and only enabled if a user chooses to? Dzongkha speaking users most likely to have a standard Dzongkha keyboard or IME installed on their system which works directly with their script and would prefer to use that rather than typing translitteration. (In this particular case it's worse as the translit script is not only on by default but is completly broken for Dzongkha.) Chris Fynn (talk) 07:42, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

While I agree with you that scripts modifying keyboard input should be turned off by default, there is little we can do on the Dzongkha Wikipedia. On the enwiki Help Desk we deal with issues related to the English Wikipedia only. You would be better off bringing this issue up on the Dzongkha Wikipedia itself. (Having said that, I can't even find a Dzongkha Wikipedia...) ƒ(Δ)² 08:01, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

FYI it's here! (I can't actually see the characters in IE8, but in Safari I can - there are ༡༢༦ content pages on the wiki, ༥༥༥ total pages and ༦ uploaded files - but I don't know what those are in English!) -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 08:43, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately there is no place to report this on the Dzongkha Wikipedia itself. The fact is just now I am about the only one doing any editing there. I am currently trying to encourage students in Bhutan to contribute - but having a script like this installed which only messes up the input and makes editing difficult is not at all helpful to this endeavor. If someone familiar with the technicalities can explain to me how to remove such a template - which effects every page on the Dzongkha Wikipedia - I'll try to do it myself, though I don't know whether or not I have sufficient rights to change things at that level. This template is evil - it even messes up input in the Go / Search box in the left hand column making it useless. There is no obvious way to turn it off there and without that search box being functional a Wikipedia is totally crippled. Then people complain that no one is using Dzongkha Wikipedia - this could be one of the main reasons for that sad state of affairs.

I notice the same person has installed a similar translitteration template on the Tibetan Wikipedia ~ it is just as much a mess for that language which uses the same script as Dzongkha. The person who created the script probably thought that because Tibetan and Dzongkha use a writing system which is derived from an Indic system then a transliteration input script that works for Indian languages would work for Tibetan and Dzongka. Obviously he is not familiar with either of these languages, the standard translitteration system used for them, or the fact that in the Unicode Standard Tibetan was encoded using a completly different encoding model from other Indic scripts. This translitteration input script has been installed on the Dzongkha Wikipedia for a long time. Unfortunately Eukesh the person who installed it has not responded to repeated requests via his main user page to do something about it. Anyway if no one can help me here, any suggestions as to where I should take this? Chris Fynn (talk) 13:26, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I have already answered to this problem in Dzonkha wiki a long time ago in CFynn's page. There certainly was nothing in Dzonkha wikipedia when I had inserted the script. The main page looked like this. Problem in input of Abugida script was present throughout South Asian wikipediae as per meta pages. Dzonkha wiki was virtually nonexistent back then with less than 10 articles. With this in consideration, I worked on a code for input system for all South Asian abugidas. The initial code was very rudimentary. However, considering its potential, users from Nepali, Hindi, Marathi, Assamese, Panjabi, Kashmiri among others suggested on various aspects to improve the code some of which can be seen in my discussion page. The input system gradually improved in these wikipedias. However, due to lack of community in Dzonkha and Tibetan, this did not happen there, with the code still rudimentary when my tenure as temporary sysop was over. After years of no response and no edits, CFynn asked me to remove the code and I replied that I was not able to do this because I had no sysop access in his page in Dzonkha wikipedia. Also, I applied for sysop access here to remove the code but no one still responded. Now, I see this page in English wiki which states that I did not respond to the sugggestions which is NOT TRUE at all. By this time, the script has already been removed and I sincerely hope that, now, the "culprit" script is out, Dzonkha wiki develops at an astounding rate. Thank you.--Eukesh (talk) 06:10, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Copying messages from a talk page to article talk page

Assuming editor X and Y are having a conversation about some article, and they're discussing possible problems. That conversation is taking place on Y's talk page, and its been started by X. The reason X took it to Y's page is because he wanted it to remain between them, and not between everyone else collaborating on the article. Then, suddenly, editor Z comes in and asks editor Y to post the conversation on the article talk. Editor X disagrees, but Z does it anyway. Can X remove the conversation from the article talk, or blank the comments he wrote, or some such thing? I think he should be able to do that. What d'you guys think? ƒ(Δ)² 07:50, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. Strictly speaking, user talk pages are for discussing that editor's edits etc, and not for article collaboration (for which the place is of course the article talk page). However, there's no rule against such discussion taking place on the user talk page and it happens very often. If there are other users editing the article as well, then it is better to use the article talk so that everyone can participate. It may also look like cabalism if you try to keep others out of the discussion by posting it in pages that are not directly relevant. Editor Z can ask the other two to move it to the article talk, but he cannot do so himself without their consent. You can do whatever you like with your own comments, but remember that they will always be in the page's history. Also remember that substantially modifying or removing your comments is generally frowned upon, and will looks like you're trying to hide something. Finally, note that this situation may change depending on the nature of the discussion (for example, if the discussion criticizes others' edits then it's better to be on the article talk so that they can find it and respond, or it is obviously going to look like you're plotting behind their backs). ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 08:12, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm referring to this series of edits. I think my actions were justified. Can't be sure, though. ƒ(Δ)² 08:32, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

How do i get my ex boyfriend back after 4 months

k well i was with this boy for 6 wonderful months. the best time of my life. It was my first serious relationship and the first boy i actually cared about. but than we start fighting like crazy, and he never wanted to be the one to break up with me because he was scared to hurt me so he wanted me to break up with him cause he know how much the fighting hurt me so he cheated on me.But either way he hurt me. So i broke up with him.. But after we broke up he wanted me back but i already had a boyfriend. And even tho i did like the guyi was with i was only trying to filll the empty space he left in my heart i said no because i didnt want to seem pathetic. like i love him very much and everyone says that he still loves me ,like he always te lls me theres always a place in his heart for me But now where single and where friends and its been 4 months since we've been broken up and we still talk and hes always bring up the past. and i know he still loves me i just want to get him back .

please help me get my first love back

As much as I'd love to be matchmaker, this is way out of our scope. I'm sorry, there's nothing much we can do on Wikipedia. ƒ(Δ)² 08:10, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Note: Wikipedia cannot give relationship advice. As much as we would like to, we are not qualified to give such advice - and if I was in your situation, I would rather take advice from friends/family than complete strangers from around the world. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 08:15, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

And if we were good enough with relationships to give out advice, we wouldn't spend this much time on the Internet. =/ ƒ(Δ)² 08:30, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Lots of women have boyfriends, but how many have 10,000 edits on Wikipedia? --Teratornis (talk) 10:14, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Off the top of my head, I can name at least a few. :) hmwith☮ 16:17, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't even bother. Women are complicated specimens of nature. They seem to replace themselves over the years. I suggest you try your own sex, you might like it. I know I did! --A3RO (mailbox) 00:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

The degeneracy of Tamil Wikipedia

The Tamil Wikipedia is under the control of a cabal whose main purpose is to impose their version of an archaic Tamil instead of present day Tamil as in newsmedia, literature, government documents and so on. Just image English wikipedia is under the control of people who think only Chaucer's English is 'pure English' and much of the present day English is a corruption to be done away with. A similar situation of "Pure Tamil Taliban" exist in Tamil Wikipedia, who impose their version of 'pure Tamil', chiefly by doing away with a number of characters in the Tamil Keyboard.

I would like Wikipedia foundation - or whoever in charge of matters like this - to take up the matter seriously. Because the present practices in Tamil Wikipedia violates Wikipedia rules, in letter and spirit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vijinuk (talk • contribs)

If there is anyone who can help with this problem, they probably are not reading this Help desk on the English Wikipedia. The various language Wikipedias operate with considerable autonomy, so the first place to address a problem on the Tamil Wikipedia would be on the Tamil Wikipedia. If the Tamil Wikipedia is under the control of some group of editors, they probably have a list of arguments to support whatever they are doing. To change what they are doing, you would have to counter all their arguments with better arguments. For example, you might compile statistical data that shows a preference among Tamil speakers for a particular version of the language. I doubt that a directly comparable situation exists in English, since computers were largely invented by speakers of modern English. English speakers did not have any difficulty adapting computers to their language since that was the design from the very beginning. We have some minor differences between American and British English but this does not rise to Taliban intensity. When computers spread to other cultures then there were endless problems with other character sets and so on. --Teratornis (talk) 10:40, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

"For example, you might compile statistical data that shows a preference among Tamil speakers for a particular version of the language" Teratomis, you don't understand how the 'purist' mindset works. I have pointed out on so many occasions on how a word is used in respectable newspapers, magazines and literaure. The purist Taliban have a pat answer: It is all corruption, it is all 'imposition' by respectable sources to corrupt Tamil. Since a few like-minded people have chosen themselves as the administrators, they don't have to respect anybody's opinion.

"To change what they are doing, you would have to counter all their arguments with better arguments" - What if the editors don't listen to any argumnets since their political stand is already made up and they merely fob you off with irrelevant things or insults.

Fact sidebar comes up when I want to edit article

I have facts to add to the Trinity Preparatory School wiki page. I was able to update the sidebar but I do not see how to "get into" the main contents. I am a new user...obviously! Thank you,

Katieseymour (talk) 10:36, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

It's not clear what you want to do to the Trinity Preparatory School article. You were able to update the {{Infobox School}} template in the article - that's usually the part that would trip up a new user. To edit the rest of the article, just click the "edit this page" tab at the top and scroll down in the edit window past the template code. See WP:CHEAT for some basic editing commands, and Help:Editing for more. It's best to make a few small changes and then wait to see what other editors do to them. You can add the article to your watchlist. --Teratornis (talk) 10:48, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorting data

Is it possible to sort the replies when searching. For example I want to search within Category talk:People of German descent for jewish people of German descent with any reference to "Hamburg". Or ordering a search of Village pump by date and subject. I cannot seem to work out how to do data sorting. --Alchemist Jack (talk) 12:44, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

So what you're looking for is something that will search Category:People of German descent for people that are also in Category:German Jews and Category:People from Hamburg? Such searching is probably out of the league of Wikipedia's (terrible) built-in search, or any external search engine, such as Google. You might want to check the Toolserver for a tool that does what you want, if one exists. Xenon54 / talk / 12:55, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I am amazed! That kind of thing would make Wikipedia really useful. Oh well. Thanks. I will check out the link. --Alchemist Jack (talk) 13:05, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Searching#Using Wikimedia search to find category intersections. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:12, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I found that and tried the example, but it doesn't seem to work anymore..."no results". Xenon54 / talk / 13:15, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Tried that with just Category:People of German descent and Category:People from Hamburg and got this [1]

Which doesn't look write but then the example [2] doesn't work either. said above--Alchemist Jack (talk) 13:24, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I guess some change in the software broke such searches. Anyway I found another. Try this tool. It appears to be working. I found this as linked from Wikipedia:Category intersection which you might check out. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:56, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

CatScan ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 14:31, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Amazing! What a great tool! Jack, for your search, you need to set the "Deep index levels below each category" to 2. — Sebastian 14:40, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that, --Alchemist Jack (talk) 15:52, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Also see WP:EIW#Cat and WP:EIW#Search. The Editor's index lists a lot of these kinds of tools. --Teratornis (talk) 19:41, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Article help

Which article is the article for the Christian God?--Mikespedia (talk) 15:25, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

God in Christianity. Christian God redirects there. ZooFari 15:43, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

In the help desk, what does the "Resolved" box mean?

Resolved

 – Looks resolved to me. – ukexpat (talk) 15:45, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

What does it mean with sections that have a tick, and the "Resolved." text?--Mikespedia (talk) 15:28, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

It means that the question has been answered. Either the question asker or answerer can add the {{Resolved}} tag, and it serves to identify which questions can be safely skipped over by prospective answerers. Xenon54 / talk / 15:34, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

If you feel Xenon's reply resolved your question, please add the following text (without the quotes) right beneath the headline: "{{resolved}}". (BTW, I hope you don't mind that I changed the headline; this is so in future people can easily find your question.) — Sebastian 15:50, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Do I have to sign after it?--Mikespedia (talk) 09:40, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

That would be helpful, so others can see who considered the question resolved. Gonzonoir (talk) 09:56, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

For which the code would be {{Resolved|1= [optional text here].~~~~}}.  – ukexpat (talk) 15:44, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Uploading pictures to an exising page

I created an account, mainly to add additional photographs to an existing page:

Muscatine Avenue Moffitt Cottage Historic District http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moffit_house

I uploaded additional pictures, but they have not shown up on the article. How can I resolve this?

Thank you very kindly,

Ozzie F. Díaz-Duque

I have removed you email for privacy. We will send you messages through your talk page, not email. ZooFari 15:47, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Add images to the article by adding [[File:YourImageName.jpg]] (replaced by the image's actual name) where you'd like the image to go. For more information, see WP:Images#Using images. hmwith☮ 16:13, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

"edit this page" timestamp

I am wondering how a timestamp is created/generated when editing has been performed on an article's page. I was looking at an article while listening to what I thought was supposed to be live radio on the day of the event and the article already stated what had happened. I was listening at around 10 or 11 am EST and the timestamp in the article showed 14:06 but I couldn't find a time zone. I noticed that time zones are not in general included in the timestamp for an edit and wondering why not. The is truly a mystery to me. Thanks.

The time is Coordinated Universal Time (UTC). 10:06 EDT is 14:06 UTC. Xenon54 / talk / 16:55, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

The discrepancy between the timestamps that appear in UTC on "talk" pages and the timestamps that appear on "page history" logs was confusing-enough to me that I changed "my preferences" to make everthing appear in UTC, rather than some things appearing in my local time and some appearing in UTC. I just set my "Date & Time" zone in "my preferences" to "Africa/Abidjan", (although I live in America's "Pacific" time zone) to produce a "zero offset" re server time for me, in other words, and that caused everything to display in UTC for me. Ohiostandard (talk) 14:30, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Move

I can seem to find out how to publish. I opened an account today and wanted to create a page on my Army Unit. I did a template under my account, but I can't see to figure out how to move it over. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeffrey.vaughan (talk • contribs) Please sign your comments, the robot that does this is currently down

It looks like you used the Wikipedia:Article wizard 2.0 to create a user subpage at User:Jeffrey.vaughan/620th Combat Sustainment Support Battalion. That is in fact the most advisable way for a new Wikipedia user to start a new article. Many new articles by new users get deleted here for failing to comply with Wikipedia's complex policies and guidelines, but you can improve your subpage before you move it to the article space. See WP:LAYOUT, WP:YFA, WP:CITE, WP:FOOT, and WP:MOVE. --Teratornis (talk) 19:22, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

As your account is a day old and has fewer than ten edits, it's probably not yet autoconfirmed - that would mean the "move" tab is invisible to you. After four days and more than ten edits it should become visible. You could circumvent the problem, once you're ready for the article to go live, by copying and pasting the contents of the page (when viewed in "edit" mode) into a new page in article space. Gonzonoir (talk) 10:04, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I cleaned up some of the formatting. It needs some references and claims of notability before it is moved to the mainspace. – ukexpat (talk) 15:56, 28 September 2009 (UTC)  – ukexpat (talk) 15:56, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Links between Wiki projects

I'm an avid cruciverbalist. My preferred on-line dictionary, OneLook.com, indexes Wiktionary content which often has definitions not available in other dictionaries. Frequently a simple dictionary entry isn't enough to solve an obscure clue and I need to go to Wikipedia to look for some more context on the subject. This is especially so for obscure cryptic clues. Maybe I'm blind but I can't see an easy link from a Wiktionary page to Wikipedia. Ideally I'd want to automatically do a search of Wikipedia using the Wiktionary word but also have the option just to go to the Wikipedia home page. Am I not seeing the missing link? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.110.137 (talk • contribs) 14:32, 27 September 2009

If an entry has a Wikipedia page, there should be a "Wikipedia has articles on: [topic]" box on the right-hand side of the page, lined up with the definition to which the entry applies. Xenon54 / talk / 18:36, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

For example, the wikt:hydroelectricity page has a {{Wikipedia}} template that links back to Hydroelectricity here. However:

• A human editor has to place the {{Wikipedia}} template in a Wiktionary entry by hand. That means not all Wiktionary entries that should have the template may have it yet, since Wiktionary is a work in progress like Wikipedia.
• Wikipedia is not a dictionary, so there are potentially many Wiktionary entries for which no Wikipedia article exists with the same title.
• You can search the full text of Wikipedia with several different tools. See Help:Search, WP:EIW#Search, and {{Google Wikipedia}}. I search Wikipedia with Google so often that I bookmarked the search link in my Web browsers.

--Teratornis (talk) 19:33, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

For example:

• Search Wikipedia with Google for: cruciverbalist

finds some instances of the word, including the userbox: User:SJS1971/Userboxes/cruciverbalist. --Teratornis (talk) 19:37, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the response. The hydroelectricity example you cited is the first Wiktionary page where I've seen a box with a link to Wikipedia so clearly this is a WIP. Given that many (most?) entries don't have that box, I would like just a link somewhere in the main frame to the Wikipedia home page. Seems there's room for buttons with the logos for Wikipedia and a couple of other Wikimedia projects in the top of the frame.

Further Reading

Please tell me how to add a book under Further Reading in the Alma Reville entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucygrayphotography (talk • contribs) 14:49, September 27, 2009

The page is not protected, so you should be able to edit by hitting the edit button at the top of the page. Make sure it's appropriate - substantially related to the subject of the page and preferably from a reputable publisher. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 19:19, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Copyright

Resolved

 –  – ukexpat (talk) 21:51, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

User:Velioph added a text about Phoenix Astronomical Society as well as their logo. Some time ago these were deleted as a copyvio (see the article's talk page). Now he appeared again, declaring that he has the right to use both the text and the logo. Can somebody, who knows the rules, give him some advice, what to do? Thank you very much. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 21:29, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I think the bigger issue is that the whole article is a violation of WP:ORG and WP:AUTO. Have you thought thought about nominating the article for deletion?

No I haven't and I won't. I consider this organization, which has been working in the field of astronomy for more then 60 years, notable enough. It is true that autobiographies are discouraged (although not forbidden), but an article about an organization is not an autobiography, although the major contributor is its member. I will write the author an advice to use some secondary sources, which would better prove the notability of the subject, but could somebody give him an advice what to do with the logo? Thanks again. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 14:17, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Logos can be used without a copyright release, under an appropriate free use rationale, see WP:LOGO. That stub will need some significant editing with cited sources to demonstrate notability. – ukexpat (talk) 16:01, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks very much, I have passed the information to the author, both about the logo and the sources. Jan.Kamenicek (talk) 21:48, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

signing

does this mean I dont need to sign here? This page is a member of 2 hidden categories:

Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed Accdude92 (talk) (sign) 21:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Hell, no. That's so Sinebot knows to patrol this page, as it normally only patrols pages in the Talk namespaces. Xenon54 / talk / 21:48, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

At any rate, Sinebot seems to have been down recently, and may even be down at the moment. Intelligentsium 00:04, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the recent updates seem to have broken all of the bots. I assume that Sinebot will return eventually. Xenon54 / talk / 00:19, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to have stopped Scsbot from archiving or inserting date headers. —teb728 t c 01:01, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Scsbot is manually invoked by Ummit. I guess the outage only applies to automatically running bots. Xenon54 / talk / 01:19, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

mistake

i have seen a mistake on a page titled "methane". i wonder who wrote this as it was so obvious to me. it talks about the history of measuring methane in the atmosphere. the problem is, the dates are 20 years before methane was even discovered. how did they measure it when they hadnt even discovered it for another 20 years. that makes no sense and defies logic. who wrote this article?

It was probably vandalism. Most pages on Wikipedia can be edited by anyone at any time, and there are "bad apples" who abuse this privilege by making unconstructive edits. These can range from replacing a page with nonsense to subtle date-changing, as is the case here. In the vast majority of cases, the vandalism is removed in seconds to minutes. Xenon54 / talk / 22:41, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

You can also fix it instead seeking to place blame.Cptnono (talk) 23:13, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Methane does not talk about the history of measuring methane in the atmosphere. It talks about the methane level in history (specifically 1750) which is a different matter. Many things can be found out about the atmosphere and climate in the past without having measurements made at that time. The 1750 number has an inline source [3] which contains the number. The article doesn't claim the measurement was made in that year. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:22, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

We also know about dinosaurs even though no human was alive to observe them according to mainstream science. (The folks at the Creation Museum beg to differ.) There are ways to infer the composition of the Earth's atmosphere in the past by using various forms of fossil evidence, for example ice cores. --Teratornis (talk) 01:32, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

sorting an article by last name

An article I wrote on Nathan Lebron comes up under "N" instead of "L" when you look at the categories I listed it under. How do I fix this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Charlotte4609 (talk • contribs) 23:32, 27 September 2009

Add {{DEFAULTSORT:new key}} at the bottom of the article, replacing new key with Last name, first name. Also you should add {{WPBiography|living=yes|listas=Lebron, Nathan}} to the talk page. ~~ GB fan ~~ ^talk 23:40, 27 September 2009 (UTC)