Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2011 February 17

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February 17

Earth's Age

Your Article states the age of the Earth is over 4 Billion years old.there is no solid proof to support that claim..The Earth at it's oldest is 12,000 years & youngest is at 10,000..for more information on the age of the Earth go Mt. St. Helens Volcano explosions. & find out why rocks & trees were completely fossilized in four hours not 4 Billion years..look at the progression of mankind from 1492 to 2010.or if you are really adventurous look in the BIBLE Genesis chapter 1 verse 1 & 2..thank you for the opportunity to express my thoughts...Jerry Stoller —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.149.36.93 (talk) 01:50, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello Jerry. I don't think this has anything to do with helping you use Wikipedia (as is described at the top of the page). You could always present your case at Talk:Age of the Earth, but I don't think you'll have much luck. Perhaps Dating Creation and Biblical cosmology will be more up your alley. Cheers. Rehevkor ✉ 01:57, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

"the progression of mankind from 1492". LOL. Obviously from an American IP. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:39, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

[redacted] Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 03:36, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Jerry, you might find Conservapedia and CreationWiki more to your liking, although Wikipedia does have rather complete coverage of Creationism. You are right, there is no solid proof that God did not just create everything five minutes ago, with the appearance of age, along with our memories of the past. But science generally applies Occam's razor to rule out such unnecessarily complex hypotheses. The overwhelming weight of evidence from the past couple of centuries of progress in geology, biology, paleontology, etc. is consistent with an ancient Earth rather than a young Earth. Incidentally, how much of the Bible do you actually believe? I ask because I have never met anyone who behaves as if they believe all of it at all times. --Teratornis (talk) 03:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Jerry, you might be interested in this at the TalkOrigins Archive about the significance of rapidly formed fossils. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 03:36, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Folks, this kind of behavior is not appropriate. Outing and mocking an editor's background are not made alright because of his misguided attempt to proselytize. Poke-the-creationist is a game with many venues outside of Wikipedia. Danger (talk) 04:00, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

IP locations are publicly available, but on reflection the first part of my edit was inappropriate, and I've redacted it. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 04:31, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Verifying biography?

I'm trying to verify the information in the article Upton H. Pennyworth and I can't find anything in google that isn't a mirror of our article. The claims in the article seem notable enough that it is suspicious I'm having trouble finding anything. Any suggestions where to look? RJFJR (talk) 03:30, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Red links for some reason for me, but the article is there. The only references to this that I can find are Wikipedia mirrors. Hoax? Rehevkor ✉ 03:39, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

"The Itinerant Everyman" only seems to return this article too. Rehevkor ✉ 03:40, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Likewise "Phalaenopsis upton" and "Kornblum glacier", the latter being utterly implausible if it were real. The general oddness of the story also sets by b.s. detector beeping (7 year hiatus in a lighthouse?) Congratulations to RJFJR on finding a hoax that's stood for over 4 years. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 04:00, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I've prodded it as a hoax. It probably qualifies for {{db-hoax}}, but given it's been live for four years already... Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 04:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I was about to db-hoax it but proding it is probably better. Will watch list and see how it goes. Rehevkor ✉ 05:06, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

It should make the top-10 at Wikipedia:List of hoaxes on Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:17, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

My search did not turn up any info. Article creator User:J.m.carpenter only has two edits, both to the article. The math's adding up to hoax. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 09:46, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Don't know if this will help, but... I did find one reference - http://www.flipkart.com/british-explorers-llc-books-robert-book-1157717500

The fact that it's "out of stock", doesn't seem to have an iSBN number, etc could well mean it's also a hoax, but I thought I should point it out.

This is sure odd -- I can't see what anyone would gain from this oddball example of a hoax, but NEARLY all signs seem to point that way... HTH... DD Dedicated Dad (talk) 07:35, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

On further consideration, the "book" in question was "published" in Sept. 2010, and is priced in "Rs" -- which I think is "Rupees"? - indicating India as a probable "publisher" location. Being unable to get any further information, this "book" *could* simply be a compilation of Wikipedia articles, and thus a victim of the possible hoax vs. an outside verification of reality.

• SOME* of these "photocopy books" are of obscure, antique volumes, others are pure plagiarism of online sources. No way to know for sure which this is...

HTH... DD Dedicated Dad (talk) 07:41, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

• There is a growing industry of people taking Wikipedia content and advertising it as a book for sale. Usually, they advertise the book for sale without actually having a printed out copy in stock (the print it out once someone orders it). Wikipedia and sources that mirror or use it should not be used as sources. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 11:04, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

It says "Source: Wikipedia" in the fine print, and the excerpt is identical to the beginning of Wikipedia's article on Ernest Shackleton. Laughably, it also offers "Free updates online". I love their description of the book as a reprint of "rare works of literature that are out-of-print or on the verge of becoming lost." Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 11:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes. It definitely qualifies as a "rare works... on the verge of becoming lost." -- I have deleted this as blatant hoax. Nice spot by RJFJR. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 17:24, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Logo moving

Every time I open a new page, the logo moves from left to right, which slows down the opening time several seconds, each time. Is this part of the maintenance thing that was being mentioned yesterday, or is this permanent? All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 03:41, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia on PSP

As of today, the Wikipedia website when used on the Sony PSP has the search button disabled. Also, the links are no longer in blue, but they are in black. I was wondering if you might have known why that has occurred. If using the mobile version of Wikipedia on the PSP, then it's fine. But I prefer using the regular version on the PSP.

Thank you for your time.

Template function help

I need some help with the template code. Before that I'd like to say that this is on the other language version of Wikipedia so there are some language requirements in which there is none in English - please understand. Part of the template looks basically like this:

[[Category:Elections in the {{{country}}}|Elections]]

(to make it simple for English speakers to understand) In this language all countries begin with the like the France, the Belgium, and so on. Now a problem occurs when countries like "the United States" or "the United Kingdom" the outcome would be Elections in the the United States

I want to write a code like this:

[[Category:Elections in <if this is United States or United Kingdom = {{{country}}}> <if this is not = the {{{country}}}> ]]

Could anyone help me please? I know probably I should ask the language version that I belong to but I think English Wikipedia is faster and there are more template experts. Thank you very much. --Rattakorn c (talk) 04:25, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

As I understand it, you want to add "the " in front of {{{country}}} if and only if {{{country}}} doesn't already start with "the ". This should do it, and work with both "the " and "The" due to lc:

{{#ifeq:{{lc:{{padleft:|4|{{{country}}}}}}}|the|{{{country}}}|the {{{country}}}}}

It doesn't use string templates so it should work in all wikis. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:07, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you :) --Rattakorn c (talk) 06:49, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Deliberate attempt by another user to stop my edits.

Hi: If this is already answered elsewhere kindly guide me. For the last couple of years I have been updating the Wiki Page about Electronic City, ( an industrial park in Bangalore). Couple of users are deleting relevant content with citations deliberately & repeatedly with malicious intent. Earlier they had silently changed urls of refeences and external links to divert the traffic elsewhere. After I reverted those changes, they are deleting every useful info that I add. I am unable to proceed. I do not believe that talking to them is going to help because their edits are very unethical. How can I report abuse or flag it for neutrality? Please help. Thanks, Raji ect (talk) 04:28, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Electronics City (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

A discussion is taking place on the article talk page. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:05, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the assistance. I have justified my content in the article discussion page; have been asked to wait for 1 day by User: Sodabottle. However I see the other user making multiple changes to the article. Raji ect (talk) 08:50, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Unable to edit

I am currently connected indirectly to the internet (via a third-party) and am able to edit just fine. But when I connect directly, I cannot. I suspect that this is due to an IP block. How can I confirm that? For that matter, how do I tell what my external IP address is at all? Running ipconfig just gives a bogus address by which I'm known to my router. Ma^t_chups 04:51, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

What happens when you try to edit while connected directly? Do you see a message at Special:Mycontributions when you are logged out? It should at least show your IP address. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

How to cite obvious similarity between musical themes?

A contemporary pop song borrows its primary musical theme from a 1930's jazz song. Both songs have Wikipedia articles. I would like to cross reference them to one another and cite the older song as an influence to the newer song. However, I can't find any authoritative reference to this connection. I believe the similarity between the two songs is clear and obvious to any reasonable listener. But how can I substantiate this connection? It's conceivable that the authors of the contemporary song would want to dispute the connection for fear of copyright and royalty issues, rather than a true lack of connection. Both songs are available on YouTube. Can I reference audio examples from YouTube?

I think what you're suggesting might fall under Wikipedia:Original_research unless you can find reliable sources that confirm the similarities have been discussed outside of Wikipedia. Perhaps someone with more experience can confirm this. CaptRik (talk) 08:48, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Not every post in Wikipedia needs to be sources. The policy on sourcing is Wikipedia:Verifiability, which requires inline citations for any material challenged or likely to be challenged, and for all quotations. The policy is strictly applied to all material in the mainspace—articles, lists, and sections of articles—without exception, and in particular to biographies of living persons. I would say that, using Wikipedia to imply that the living person authors of the contemporary song violated the law without that Wikipedia post being sourced to a reliable source, falls under material likely to be challenged. You also might want to review Defamation#Libel. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 09:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Why would noting a similarity between two pieces of music necessarily be a libelous statement? Composers throughout history have freely "borrowed" inspiration from each other perfectly legitimately. Roger (talk) 09:46, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

It wouldn't necessarily be a libelous statement. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 09:52, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

It seems to me that what would be critical is the wording of the statement. A simple statement that two pieces of music are similar, where it is indisputably obvious and not "likely to be challenged", may be acceptable. What would not be acceptable is to suggest that the writer of the second piece "borrowed" - that is, plagiarised - the tune from the first piece. In my view that would be original research and potentially libellous. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:05, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

See WP:SYNTHESIS. We are not supposed to combine disparate items of information in a way that advances a new thesis not advanced in any reliable published source. Also, there is no way to conclude from mere similarity of two songs that the later composers accidentally or deliberately copied from the earlier song. There are only so many notes, and only so many ways to combine them that sound good to people, so it is quite possible that two or more composers will independently compose similar themes. See for example the song 4 Chords by The Axis of Awesome, a medley of 36 pop songs that all use the same chord progression. --Teratornis (talk) 19:18, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

WAS INQUIRING

I was wondering if I could post a link to my radioblog show we do every week for CSI MIAMI

Thank you for asking; the answer is probably not. The Wikipedia guidelines on linking to external web sites are much stricter than many editors realise. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:01, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Grammar tools

How can i install a grammar tool for my spelling in Wikipedia. When i use words for text on the site, how can I control this! Peters01 (talk) 09:07, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Many browsers have inbuilt or add-on spell checkers. See Wikipedia:Tools/Editing tools#Spell_Checkers. I believe the MediaWiki software does have such a feature but it is turned off because it is a resource hog.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:43, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

How do you actually install Twinkle

How do I actually install Twinkle? I built a new computer and I don't have it. I am working on a translation and I can't automatically do search and replace, to get the little tool at the bottom? My preferences say I have it but I don't have it, or at least, if I do it is not installed under Windows 7. THe installation instructions tell me to put a javascript into a skin but I am not sure quite what that means, I can do it if told but the instructions there are somewhat vague. Si Trew (talk) 11:22, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Twinkle doesn't need to be installed on your computer; it's a set of javascripts which are added to every Wikipedia page you edit (different types of pages will use different parts of Twinkle, for example, if you open a user talk page, there will be a twinkle menu at the top relating to user talk templates.) It can actually now be enabled by going to the My preferences link (at the top of every page). Choose Gadgets and tick Twinkle under the Editing gadgets section. You should only need to edit your "skin" if you want to change some of the default Twinkle options (see Wikipedia:Twinkle/doc). Twinkle doesn't work - or maybe doesn't work very well? - on Internet Explorer, so if you're using that, you may need to try a different browser like Firefox or Chrome. Hope this helps, --Kateshortforbob _talk 12:57, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Just had a thought - I'm not sure that Twinkle has search and replace functionality. It's mostly to speed up the process of reporting, templating and deleting/blocking users and pages and doing maintenance. Are you perhaps thinking of Auto-Wiki Browser? It does need to be installed on your computer and requires that you are added to the approvals list. It does have search and replace functionality, if I remember right. --Kateshortforbob _talk 13:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

WikEd has search and replace functionality. – ukexpat (talk) 17:23, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

You can also copy and paste all the wikitext of a wiki page into any text editor you like (e.g., Notepad, Notepad++, etc.), edit it there, than copy and paste it back into your browser's edit window. That's a bit clumsy if you have to do a lot of it, but since it requires no setup or installation hassles, just about every computer is already able to do it. --Teratornis (talk) 19:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Account

How do I delete my account and make a new one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tim Chynoweth (talk • contribs) 03:23, February 17, 2011

Accounts cannot be deleted, only renamed. See WP:UNC for details. -- œ^™ 11:35, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Unable to find an article

Hi I haven been able to find a article published in the month of Feb 2010 The article is as titled "Electrical power supply system for India". Please help me as I am in need of it very urgently for my academic report.

Thank u — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pramodrb (talk • contribs) 12:50, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi - I haven't been able to find an article with that exact name here. Your current username (Pramodrb) has no contributions other than your question here; did you publish it yourself under another username here at Wikipedia? Are any of the articles in the category Category:Energy in India of use to you? --Kateshortforbob _talk 12:50, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Maybe it was Electricity sector in India, which is a redirect from Electricity in India.? – ukexpat (talk) 17:27, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

You should read A caution before citing Wikipedia. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 11:29, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

HELPME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

{{helpme|When can I add list of buses to this article?}}— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.12.88.17 (talk • contribs)

As you know, this has been discussed on the article's talk page, and consensus is against doing so. Please do not forum shop by taking your request here, to your talk page, and anywhere else you can think of. The article's talk page is the best place to discuss this. JamesBWatson (talk) 13:07, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

(e/c) Never is probably about right for the timing. You did add them to the article but you were reverted, which was accompanied by the edit summary "rm links which are more suitable for List of bus operators of the United Kingdom." You can see this from the page's history. That edit summary is right. Specific bus companies do not belong in a see also section of an article on the general topic of buses. See also sections are for listing "related Wikipedia articles". Such specificity in an article on the general class is too attenuated from the topic and it sets the stage for every bus company in the world to appear there. By the way, the {{help me}} template is for calling people to your talk page, whereas this page is directly viewed by helpers and so the template does not belong here. Finally, please remember to sign comment in pages such as this (but never in articles) by tying four tildes after your message (~~~~).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:19, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Small template issue

Why does the "see also" line in Template:Employment come out with a different background colour to the rest of the template. How can it be fixed ? --Penbat (talk) 12:14, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

see Template:Navbox for the documentation and restyling with other colors. mabdul 13:05, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

• In Template:Employment, the full-width cell displayed between the titlebar and first group/list -- displayed "above" the template's body (group/list) -- is controlled by the |above= parameter. The color behind that cell (the Cascading Style Sheets style) is controlled by the |basestyle= parameter. I added the |basestyle= parameter to the template so that the background color of the above cell matches the background color of the title and group cell.[1] -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 10:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

How to update a company logo please?!

I am trying to update our company logo on wiki, I have managed to edit text successfully, and would like to replace our logo with the correct version. It seems you don't upload a gif or jpeg , but you host it on another site, then insert the link into the html, is that right?! thanks— Preceding unsigned comment added by Camden07 (talk • contribs)

No, that is not correct. You upload it here. See WP:UPLOAD Dismas|^(talk) 12:29, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I went straight to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload , and got an authorisation error ?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Camden07 (talk • contribs)

What you may have heard about as "another site" is the Wikimedia Commons, which is a sister site that has images we use here, but it is only for free content (public domain and freely licensed media). Company logos are typically copyrighted and used under a claim of fair use, so they cannot be uploaded to the Commons and are uploaded here instead.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:02, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Your account is not yet autoconfirmed as you have not yet made more than ten edits, and so you cannot yet upload any images.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:27, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

• Not sure if this was the one to which Camden07 was referring, but I updated File:Advent-international-logo.png. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 10:32, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Premier North West

You site you claim was updated January 2011. You still have the Premier of North West region as Moureen, It is now Thandi Modise and has been since November 2010

Thanks. You didn't name the article, there are a lot of North West regions and you misspelled Maureen Modiselle so it took some searching but I found and updated North West (South African province).[2] PrimeHunter (talk) 14:06, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Editing WP as part of a college course

I am looking for the page(s) that contain guidelines etc for editors who work on WP as a part of their college or university courses. I know such a page(s) exist but I have not managed to find anything relevant though the help search function. I would like to point out the relevant policies and guidelines regarding such editing to a new editor who has declared on an article talk page that his/her editing is part of a college course. Roger (talk) 15:40, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I think Wikipedia:School and university projects is the page you're seeking. --AndrewHowse (talk) 15:45, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

That's it, thanks! Roger (talk) 15:47, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Add to Book

Hi, I am trying to add things to my book that i am creating and the link to do this isn't always on the page Please can you help either where I can link the pages to my book, and also where can I make this a permanent addition to the pages i visit

Thanks James — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jammy245 (talk • contribs)

Your account must be autoconfirmed in order to save books. This currently means you must make 9 more edits. Your edit here counted as the first edit and your account is old. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:30, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

edit interface and toolbar

sometime yesterday my edit interface and toolbar inexplicably changed back to the vector default (which i hate). how do i get my old one back? --emerson7 16:17, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Please try the advice in the final post of this thread. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:24, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

still doesn't work right, but thanks for the pointing --emerson7 16:44, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Another reason for celebrating Nowruz

As I understand Nowruz is also the day when Hazrat Ali, The 4th. Caliph & son-in-law of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) became the Caliph.Kindly clarify

Which page are you referring to? Nowruz#Nowruz in the Twelver Shi’a faith already says this. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:34, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Autoconfirm

I have been actively editing Wikipedia under various IPs, I know the guidelines and policies well. I'd like to use Twinkle for reverting vandalism but I have to wait until I'm autoconfirmed (4 days isn't it?). Can I speed this process up somehow? Zakhalesh (talk) 17:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

That'd be a bit hard unless you're a super-boffin on JavaScript. I not autoconfirmed and I have the same problem :( . Dr. Zombieman ^brains.../_{the infected} 17:14, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Shame. I'm legitimate and I'd like to help. Can't admins confirm? Zakhalesh (talk) 17:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes we can. I've checked through your contributions and rather than make you go to Wikipedia:Requests for permissions (where the bar seems to be set fairly low) to ask nicely there, I'll give you confirmed status now. Read through the Twinkle documentation first before using it and remember that it can be removed even from confirmed / autoconfirmed users. Bencherlite^Talk 17:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Some people definitely are awesome. Thanks! Zakhalesh (talk) 17:21, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Oi! Did somebody forget me? Dr. Zombieman ^brains.../_{the infected} 17:34, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

No, I didn't "forget" you, because you didn't ask, you just made a comment. Also you didn't give a reason for wanting to be confirmed early, which is a requirement at Wikipedia:Requests for permissions. Please go there to ask. Scratch that, I see that you already did and were turned down, so you'll just have to wait. Bencherlite^Talk 18:12, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

AMA

Does anyone know the name given to the serpent on the staff that represents the American Medical Assoc.? Thank You

You should ask WP:REFDESK but I think what you're looking for is Staff of Aesculapius. Zakhalesh (talk) 17:17, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

The caduceus serpent and staff is only described as "a stylized serpent on a staff." However, I've always called the snake "Dollar" as in $. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 10:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Inuktitut Contributors

Is there any way I can find out who is contributing in the Inuktitut language? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ajaaja (talk • contribs) 19:45, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

perhaps you could ask in iu:? - David Biddulph (talk) 19:53, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

We have a category of users who have chosen to indicate in their user pages that they speak Inuktitut at some level. The Inuktitut language edition of Wikipedia can be found at iu.wikipedia.org. You may be interested in its Village Pump, which seems to be the place intended for asking general questions, or in the list of recent edits to iu.wikipedia, which could give you some idea about what contributors have been active there recently. --Theurgist (talk) 00:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

article won't print

I am trying to print the article on the hijab and I can only print page one. Please advise.Siseming (talk) 21:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

This link should create a .pdf of the page for you which you should hopefully be able to print more easily. If that doesn't work, then it's a problem with your printer. SmartSE (talk) 23:20, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

How do I remove these ! on my wiki page?

This article is written like an advertisement. Please help rewrite this article from a neutral point of view. For blatant advertising that would require a fundamental rewrite to become encyclopedic, use {{db-spam}} to mark for speedy deletion. (February 2011)

This article does not cite any references or sources.

Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (February 2011) - — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kboyles (talk • contribs)

The user seems to be referring to Oakbrook Preparatory School.

Note, that page is not your wiki page. It is an article which anyone can edit. See WP:OWN

And finally, you can remove them by removing the tags at the top of the article... once those issues have been addressed. Dismas|^(talk) 23:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)